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Author Topic: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?  (Read 2454 times)

Offline Bison 4 Life

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Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« on: December 16, 2014, 01:23:47 PM »
Seems to have disappeared.

Offline CU1994

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2014, 01:28:45 PM »
I don't see it. Wrestling is tough sport and can be really fun to watch. When I was at Cheyney in the early 90s, we would have 2-4 All Americans each year. We had this white dude named Harold, I forget his last name who kept someones back on the mat. Cats would come to the gym just to see him pin someone. Then we had my homie from Harrisburg Jacobi Simmons who was a 3 time All American. The Sigmas were basically the wrestling team.

Offline Decks

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2014, 03:32:28 PM »
Title IX casualty...... or excuse. Wrestling will never return.

Offline DES

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2014, 03:36:10 PM »
Doubt it. Most schools are struggling already and would have to fund the program

Offline Oldschoolram

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2014, 04:48:56 PM »
Check your pm.

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2014, 05:00:56 PM »
Topic I'm working on developing. I've been researching the loss of wrestling in the SEC and with HBCU's for the last two years. Even got the Black College Sports Encyclopedia on my desk as we speak.

Wrestling is what I do.

I do know the National Wrestling Coaches Association is looking to the MEAC as a potential place to start up new Division I wrestling programs.

Unfortunately, many of the HBCU's targeted have Title IX problems as it relates to proportionality. Wrestling is a draw for male students at enrollment driven schools. We've seen over 100 new programs in the last 12 years at primarily enrollment-driven schools. Division II Emmanuel just announced it was starting a wrestling program today. Division III Millikin announced it was bringing back wrestling yesterday.

From an HBCU standpoint, approximately 20 percent of the All-American wrestlers at the Division I, II, III and NAIA levels are African-American or of mixed-race with an African-American parent.

Smaller schools in the South in the NAIA are seeing big numbers of students enrolling in college just to wrestle. The scholarship max at Division I is 9.9, so when most rosters average around 30-35 per team (not counting attrition from year to year), that's 20-25 students paying tuition, which brings in revenue for the school.

The African-American wrestling community is not being served. Arkansas Baptist is the only HBCU to offer the sport and that's at the Junior College level. There are no four-year opportunities in the HBCU environment for the African-American student looking for that type of school and athletic opportunity.

I believe the MEAC sponsored wrestling for only two years back in the 80s, then one school dropped and the rest followed (similar to when 'Bama dropped wrestling and the dominoes fell in the SEC).

It's an inexpensive sport to run and operate, but before it could happen at some of the more targetable HBCU's, the proportionality issue has to be resolved. It's another opportunity for males to go to college.

With the right positioning, I believe an HBCU program could be successful if given time to develop within 4-5 years. How the admins at Delaware State threw away a tremendous recruiting class and coach during that program's final years was disgraceful. Six wrestlers recruited to that team with Earl Walker's recruiting class ended up wrestling at the NCAA championships for other schools, and one was an eventual Division II champion at Minnesota State-Mankato.

We've seen new college programs at small, enrollment-driven schools in Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, Virginia, South Carolina, Alabama, Florida and Georgia in the last five years. There's a place for it within the HBCU community.

But I'm an optimist in this regard, but if male enrollment is an issue at HBCU's, this sport is one that has been proven to add enrollment.

Offline coachward

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2014, 11:13:43 PM »
I don't see it. Wrestling is tough sport and can be really fun to watch. When I was at Cheyney in the early 90s, we would have 2-4 All Americans each year. We had this white dude named Harold, I forget his last name who kept someones back on the mat. Cats would come to the gym just to see him pin someone. Then we had my homie from Harrisburg Jacobi Simmons who was a 3 time All American. The Sigmas were basically the wrestling team.

Them darn Sigmas
Head Football Coach/Asst. Athletic Director
Kingwood Christian School
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Offline CU1994

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2014, 07:57:12 AM »
Topic I'm working on developing. I've been researching the loss of wrestling in the SEC and with HBCU's for the last two years. Even got the Black College Sports Encyclopedia on my desk as we speak.

Wrestling is what I do.

I do know the National Wrestling Coaches Association is looking to the MEAC as a potential place to start up new Division I wrestling programs.

Unfortunately, many of the HBCU's targeted have Title IX problems as it relates to proportionality. Wrestling is a draw for male students at enrollment driven schools. We've seen over 100 new programs in the last 12 years at primarily enrollment-driven schools. Division II Emmanuel just announced it was starting a wrestling program today. Division III Millikin announced it was bringing back wrestling yesterday.

From an HBCU standpoint, approximately 20 percent of the All-American wrestlers at the Division I, II, III and NAIA levels are African-American or of mixed-race with an African-American parent.

Smaller schools in the South in the NAIA are seeing big numbers of students enrolling in college just to wrestle. The scholarship max at Division I is 9.9, so when most rosters average around 30-35 per team (not counting attrition from year to year), that's 20-25 students paying tuition, which brings in revenue for the school.

The African-American wrestling community is not being served. Arkansas Baptist is the only HBCU to offer the sport and that's at the Junior College level. There are no four-year opportunities in the HBCU environment for the African-American student looking for that type of school and athletic opportunity.

I believe the MEAC sponsored wrestling for only two years back in the 80s, then one school dropped and the rest followed (similar to when 'Bama dropped wrestling and the dominoes fell in the SEC).

It's an inexpensive sport to run and operate, but before it could happen at some of the more targetable HBCU's, the proportionality issue has to be resolved. It's another opportunity for males to go to college.

With the right positioning, I believe an HBCU program could be successful if given time to develop within 4-5 years. How the admins at Delaware State threw away a tremendous recruiting class and coach during that program's final years was disgraceful. Six wrestlers recruited to that team with Earl Walker's recruiting class ended up wrestling at the NCAA championships for other schools, and one was an eventual Division II champion at Minnesota State-Mankato.

We've seen new college programs at small, enrollment-driven schools in Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, Virginia, South Carolina, Alabama, Florida and Georgia in the last five years. There's a place for it within the HBCU community.

But I'm an optimist in this regard, but if male enrollment is an issue at HBCU's, this sport is one that has been proven to add enrollment.

Great post!

Offline CU1994

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2014, 07:57:41 AM »
I don't see it. Wrestling is tough sport and can be really fun to watch. When I was at Cheyney in the early 90s, we would have 2-4 All Americans each year. We had this white dude named Harold, I forget his last name who kept someones back on the mat. Cats would come to the gym just to see him pin someone. Then we had my homie from Harrisburg Jacobi Simmons who was a 3 time All American. The Sigmas were basically the wrestling team.

Them darn Sigmas

I can't lie, they used to hold it down on the mat.

Offline coachward

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2014, 09:55:17 AM »
It would be cool the have a few HBCU's back on the mat though
Head Football Coach/Asst. Athletic Director
Kingwood Christian School
Alabaster, AL

Jacksonville State University
"Home of the Gamecocks"
Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity INC.
Spring 2K1
"BLUENIGMA"
Irresistible #3(TRE DAWG)

Offline Decks

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2014, 10:08:13 AM »
Topic I'm working on developing. I've been researching the loss of wrestling in the SEC and with HBCU's for the last two years. Even got the Black College Sports Encyclopedia on my desk as we speak.

Wrestling is what I do.

I do know the National Wrestling Coaches Association is looking to the MEAC as a potential place to start up new Division I wrestling programs.

Unfortunately, many of the HBCU's targeted have Title IX problems as it relates to proportionality. Wrestling is a draw for male students at enrollment driven schools. We've seen over 100 new programs in the last 12 years at primarily enrollment-driven schools. Division II Emmanuel just announced it was starting a wrestling program today. Division III Millikin announced it was bringing back wrestling yesterday.

From an HBCU standpoint, approximately 20 percent of the All-American wrestlers at the Division I, II, III and NAIA levels are African-American or of mixed-race with an African-American parent.

Smaller schools in the South in the NAIA are seeing big numbers of students enrolling in college just to wrestle. The scholarship max at Division I is 9.9, so when most rosters average around 30-35 per team (not counting attrition from year to year), that's 20-25 students paying tuition, which brings in revenue for the school.

The African-American wrestling community is not being served. Arkansas Baptist is the only HBCU to offer the sport and that's at the Junior College level. There are no four-year opportunities in the HBCU environment for the African-American student looking for that type of school and athletic opportunity.

I believe the MEAC sponsored wrestling for only two years back in the 80s, then one school dropped and the rest followed (similar to when 'Bama dropped wrestling and the dominoes fell in the SEC).

It's an inexpensive sport to run and operate, but before it could happen at some of the more targetable HBCU's, the proportionality issue has to be resolved. It's another opportunity for males to go to college.

With the right positioning, I believe an HBCU program could be successful if given time to develop within 4-5 years. How the admins at Delaware State threw away a tremendous recruiting class and coach during that program's final years was disgraceful. Six wrestlers recruited to that team with Earl Walker's recruiting class ended up wrestling at the NCAA championships for other schools, and one was an eventual Division II champion at Minnesota State-Mankato.

We've seen new college programs at small, enrollment-driven schools in Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, Virginia, South Carolina, Alabama, Florida and Georgia in the last five years. There's a place for it within the HBCU community.

But I'm an optimist in this regard, but if male enrollment is an issue at HBCU's, this sport is one that has been proven to add enrollment.

Good post but as far as D-I HBCU's are concerned where would the offset come from if you added wrestling back as a scholarship sport?
Male enrollment is an issue at HBCU's which only magnifies the problem under Title IX.  If this is the proportionality issue you are referring to then I don't know how you can get around it? I certainly don't see how adding a mens non-revenue sport will significantly increase the male population at HBCU's?
 For wrestling to come back there would have to be a revision to Title IX and/or NCAA guidelines on the minimum sports allowed at the D-I level and unfortunately I don't see either happening anytime soon.

Offline Jason Bryant

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Re: Can wrestling return as a sport at HBCU's?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2014, 11:02:00 AM »
You don't need a revision the part of Title IX most problematic for HBCU's to add wrestling programs, rather, taking a proactive and "can do" attitude with doing things that might take a tad more work can solve a lot of the Title IX issues. I'm by no means an expert on HBCU's, but been a black college football fan for over 20 years and have dealt with the programs at Howard, Del State, Coppin State and Norfolk State before they all gave the sports the chop.

One example is women's wrestling is an Olympic sport. The NAIA has been adding women's teams as well as men's teams, offsetting Title IX numbers and those schools get national acclaim for being trailblazers when it comes to providing women an opportunity. One NCAA issue is sports like sand volleyball get emerging status, whereas wrestling, isn't yet getting that distinction.

Maybe the MEAC is the wrong place to start. It's attractive because its Division I. The SWAC doesn't have much going for it with its location, other than competing against Division II programs. The MEAC is right in the heart of the SoCon and ACC teams, so competition wouldn't be an issue.

The SIAC would also be attractive from a Division II standpoint.

Would enrollment be significant? At some schools, 40-50 extra tuition paying students going to a school specifically because of wrestling makes a difference. Have to look at what tuition dollars would bring to the entire school vs. the cost of the program for athletics.

Without looking at the division breakdown, the following schools would be my personal targets to add.

Langston - Oklahoma is wrestling country.
Fisk - small enrollment, wrestling program could impact school's income on tuition dollars similar to Newberry and Limestone did in South Carolina.
Prairie View A&M - This one is a real reach, but it could be the only Division I program in Texas. Right now, only NAIA Wayland Baptist has varsity wrestling in the state (both men and women)
Virginia Union - Small enrollment, lots of good African-American wrestlers coming from the state, could be competitive in D2 sooner than later.
Hampton - I grew up 10 minutes from HU. Personal preference. Has hosted national youth and club wrestling tournaments.
Morehouse & Tuskegee - Name and brand recognition alone make them attractive ads.


Simply adding a men's program won't get you a Title IX complaint, going after prong two would be the best compliance option when it comes to adding sports. Adding non-revenue sports CAN bring in money for the school because of the tuition dollars.


 

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