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Author Topic: THE GARNER AND BROWN INCIDENT ARE ANOMALIES AND UNFORTUNATE - BUT.....  (Read 8257 times)

Offline oldsport

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They still remain anomalies when stacked against the number of police arrest and stops made in this country.

Yeah, your'e right. But, it certainly appears that unarmed Blacks are much more likely to be shot by police than unarmed Whites.

Do you have statistical data to support your comment? I will say this - the cases of this type occurrence seem to get the most widely circulated publicity by the main stream media and especially if a white policeman is involved. I WONDER WHY?

Offline Wildman78

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They still remain anomalies when stacked against the number of police arrest and stops made in this country.

Yeah, your'e right. But, it certainly appears that unarmed Blacks are much more likely to be shot by police than unarmed Whites.

Do you have statistical data to support your comment? I will say this - the cases of this type occurrence seem to get the most widely circulated publicity by the main stream media and especially if a white policeman is involved. I WONDER WHY?

Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater i, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings.

The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police

http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

A 2002 study in the American Journal of Public Health found that the death rate due to legal intervention was more than three times higher for blacks than for whites in the period from 1988 to 1997.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/

The media coverage of these incidents depend on a number of factors, including the race of the participants. In the Ferguson and Baltimore cases, I believe the media was drawn to the public outrage. In the Cleveland case, there was the eggregious fact of the victim being 12 years old and having a toy gun. The Walmart case, the guy was carrying a gun that he had just taken off the shelf, the police shot him before he could respond to their commands. The guy being shot in the back 8 times was so eggregious, that it demanded national coverage.

Please feel free to post incidents involving white people shot by police under circumstances that you feel would have garnered more press if the police officer was White and the victim was Black.

Maybe, there is very little coverage of police officers shooting whites under questionable circumstances because it just doesn't happen very often.

Here's more:

Social science research shows that, in video simulations, people are more likely to shoot black men. The participants—often undergraduate students, both black and white—play a simulation where they press “shoot” if they think the white or black suspect holds a gun. Consistently, psychologists have found the students more likely to shoot the unarmed black person over an unarmed white person.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119060/michael-brown-studies-show-racial-bias-police-shootings

I wonder why?  :shrug:
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 11:47:19 AM by Wildman78 »

Offline oldsport

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They still remain anomalies when stacked against the number of police arrest and stops made in this country.

Yeah, your'e right. But, it certainly appears that unarmed Blacks are much more likely to be shot by police than unarmed Whites.

Do you have statistical data to support your comment? I will say this - the cases of this type occurrence seem to get the most widely circulated publicity by the main stream media and especially if a white policeman is involved. I WONDER WHY?

Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater i, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings.

The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police

http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

A 2002 study in the American Journal of Public Health found that the death rate due to legal intervention was more than three times higher for blacks than for whites in the period from 1988 to 1997.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/

The media coverage of these incidents depend on a number of factors, including the race of the participants. In the Ferguson and Baltimore cases, I believe the media was drawn to the public outrage. In the Cleveland case, there was the eggregious fact of the victim being 12 years old and having a toy gun. The Walmart case, the guy was carrying a gun that he had just taken off the shelf, the police shot him before he could respond to their commands. The guy being shot in the back 8 times was so eggregious, that it demanded national coverage.

Please feel free to post incidents involving white people shot by police under circumstances that you feel would have garnered more press if the police officer was White and the victim was Black.

Maybe, there is very little coverage of police officers shooting whites under questionable circumstances because it just doesn't happen very often.

Here's more:

Social science research shows that, in video simulations, people are more likely to shoot black men. The participants—often undergraduate students, both black and white—play a simulation where they press “shoot” if they think the white or black suspect holds a gun. Consistently, psychologists have found the students more likely to shoot the unarmed black person over an unarmed white person.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119060/michael-brown-studies-show-racial-bias-police-shootings

I wonder why?  :shrug:

Does the intervention between policeman and blacks have something to do with the amount of violent criminal activity involving blacks. Look, again, the number of blacks killed by policeman vs. the number blacks killed by one another is insignificant.

Offline Wildman78

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Does the intervention between policeman and blacks have something to do with the amount of violent criminal activity involving blacks. Look, again, the number of blacks killed by policeman vs. the number blacks killed by one another is insignificant.


You asked me to provide statisitical data that that unarmed Blacks are more likely to be shot by police officers than unarmed Whites.  

I provided the statistics.  

I don't understand your first question/point.  :shrug:

I've already addressed your second point in this thread repeatedly:

That continues to be a bogus point.

As I wrote on previous occasions:

Black people can protest injustices while simultaneously recognizing that we commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Again, it appears that you are suggesting we forego protesting injustices or unequal protection of the laws until we get our own house in order. That's like saying back in the 1920s,  Black people should have accepted lynchings because they had a disproportionate crime rate back then too.

....

The outrage was about the lack of justice not the actual crime that was committed.

My feelings on this matter are summed up in this analogy:

If a teacher hits my son but lectures a white student for committing the same rule infraction, when I meet with the principal, I don't want the principal trying to justify the teacher's actions by telling me that the Black kids break the school rules at a disproportionate rate.



« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 05:08:51 AM by Wildman78 »

Offline oldsport

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Does the intervention between policeman and blacks have something to do with the amount of violent criminal activity involving blacks. Look, again, the number of blacks killed by policeman vs. the number blacks killed by one another is insignificant.


You asked me to provide statisitical data that that unaremed Blacks are more likely to be shot by police officers than unarmed Whites. 

I provided the statistics. 

I don't understand your first question/point.  :shrug:

I've already addressed your second point in this thread repeatedly:

That continues to be a bogus point.

As I wrote on previous occasions:

Black people can protest injustices while simultaneously recognizing that we commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Again, it appears that you are suggesting we forego protesting injustices or unequal protection of the laws until we get our own house in order. That's like saying back in the 1920s,  Black people should have accepted lynchings because they had a disproportionate crime rate back then too.

....

The outrage was about the lack of justice not the actual crime that was committed.

My feelings on this matter are summed up in this analogy:

If a teacher hits my son but lectures a white student for committing the same rule infraction, when I meet with the principal, I don't want the principal trying to justify the teacher's actions by telling me that the Black kids break the school rules at a disproportionate rate.





Are you equating policeman contacts with blacks is analogous to lynchings?

Offline Wildman78

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Are you equating policeman contacts with blacks is analogous to lynchings?

Check your syntax.

I am "analogizing" the killing of unarmed black men by police officers under questionable circumstances today with the lynchings that took place during the Jim Crow era.  The essence of a lynching is the execution of an individual accused of a criminal offense without a judicial pronouncement.

The term "lynching" is not the point. You can replace the "lynching" with the phrase "unjustifiable killings."  The point is that Blacks should not forego protesting injustices committed by law enforcement simply because we commit a disproportionate amount of crime.

If a cop pulls me over because I'm Black, I shouldn't excuse it just because he's more likely to get lucky by pulling over Black people.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 05:38:31 PM by Wildman78 »

Offline Bison66

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Does the intervention between policeman and blacks have something to do with the amount of violent criminal activity involving blacks. Look, again, the number of blacks killed by policeman vs. the number blacks killed by one another is insignificant.


You asked me to provide statisitical data that that unaremed Blacks are more likely to be shot by police officers than unarmed Whites. 

I provided the statistics. 

I don't understand your first question/point.  :shrug:

I've already addressed your second point in this thread repeatedly:

That continues to be a bogus point.

As I wrote on previous occasions:

Black people can protest injustices while simultaneously recognizing that we commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Again, it appears that you are suggesting we forego protesting injustices or unequal protection of the laws until we get our own house in order. That's like saying back in the 1920s,  Black people should have accepted lynchings because they had a disproportionate crime rate back then too.

....

The outrage was about the lack of justice not the actual crime that was committed.

My feelings on this matter are summed up in this analogy:

If a teacher hits my son but lectures a white student for committing the same rule infraction, when I meet with the principal, I don't want the principal trying to justify the teacher's actions by telling me that the Black kids break the school rules at a disproportionate rate.



Are you equating policeman contacts with blacks is analogous to lynchings?

He was not, but...
Olds..t, IT IS YOU who has consistently compared policemen to criminals by offering in contrast to the issue (police killings of Black) under discussion, examples of drug and gang related violence in the Black community.
O0

Offline Bison66

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They still remain anomalies when stacked against the number of police arrest and stops made in this country.

Yeah, your'e right. But, it certainly appears that unarmed Blacks are much more likely to be shot by police than unarmed Whites.

Do you have statistical data to support your comment? I will say this - the cases of this type occurrence seem to get the most widely circulated publicity by the main stream media and especially if a white policeman is involved. I WONDER WHY?

If you want statistical evidence (altho you will reject if it does not support your opinion), you should sign the petition:
http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php?topic=100667.msg813186#msg813186
O0

Offline Bison66

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Active Duty NCO, Olds..t!!!!!!
Active Duty!!!!!


VIDEO
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/5/20/sgt_james_brown_26_survived_two

Sgt. James Brown, 26, Survived Two Tours in Iraq Only to Die Begging for His Life in Texas Jail

Quote
...The video shows guards swarming on top of him as he repeatedly says he can’t breathe and appears not to resist. By the end of the video, he is shown naked, not blinking or responding, his breathing shallow. Attorneys say an ambulance was never called. Brown was eventually brought to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead. His family had long suspected foul play in his death but received little information from authorities.

THIS VIDEO WAS MADE IN 2012!!!

O0

Offline Bison66

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Another case from 2012....

VIDEO...  (BE SURE TO WATCH THE BROTHER OF THE DEAD WOMAN SPEAK)

Illinois Judge Calls Police Killing of Rekia Boyd "Beyond Reckless" But Acquits Cop on Technicality

Quote
Rekia Boyd was 22 years old when she was killed in 2012 by an off-duty Chicago police detective. Dante Servin fired several shots over his shoulder into a group of people Boyd was standing with near his home, striking her in the back of her head. He was charged with involuntary manslaughter, marking the first time in 15 years a Chicago police officer was charged for a fatal shooting. But last month, in a dramatic dismissal, Judge Dennis Porter acquitted Servin on a legal fine point. While speaking from the bench, Porter suggested prosecutors should have actually charged Servin with murder. "The act of intentionally firing a gun at some person or persons on the street is an act that is so dangerous it is beyond reckless; it is intentional, and the crime, if there be any, is first-degree murder," he said.
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/5/20/illinois_judge_calls_police_killing_of

O0

Offline Bison66

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Anamolies, smanamalies!!!!!

Say Her Name: Families Seek Justice in Overlooked Police Killings of African-American Women

VIDEO:  http://www.democracynow.org/2015/5/20/say_her_name_families_seek_justice

Quote
As the Black Lives Matter movement grows across the country, the names of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice and Freddie Gray have become well known. All died at the hands of local police, sparking waves of protest. During this time, far less attention has been paid to women who have been killed by law enforcement. Today, a vigil under the banner of Say Her Name is being organized in New York to remember them.

...During this time, far less attention has been paid to women who have been killed by law enforcement, women like Tanisha Anderson, Rekia Boyd, Miriam Carey, Michelle Cusseaux, Shelly Frey and Kayla Moore.

O0

Offline Bison66

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What possible CREDIBLE reason can there be for an investigation of a killing caught on tape to still be in process 6 months later?

This child has not been buried because of the City of Cleveland


VIDEO HERE:  http://www.brothersonsports.com/ricenotburied1/

The City of Cleveland is TORTURING THIS FAMILY by not permitting them to bury their child.  
The City of Cleveland is BLACKMAILING THIS FAMILY trying to get them to drop their lawsuit.

Quote
Neither of the officers’ involved in the shooting, Timothy Loehmann and his partner Frank Garmback, have been charged in Rice’s death and they have asked a federal judge to halt the Rice family’s federal civil rights lawsuit while the sheriff completes an independent criminal investigation.
City attorneys are arguing in Loehmann and Garmback’s motion that they fear their answers in the federal investigation may self-incriminate them in the criminal case, “where the stakes are significantly higher and their liberty is directly at risk.”

WTF!!!

In that case, JUST FINISH THE INVESTIGATION AND CHARGE (OR NOT) THE OFFICER(S) INVOLVED.

What possible CREDIBLE reason can there be for an investigation of a killing caught on tape to still be in process 6 months later?

IS THERE ANYONE IN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE CITY OF CLEVELAND's TOP ECHELONS WITH A CONSCIENCE?

THIS IS A F'ING TRAVESTY!

IF THIS WAS THE CHILD OF A PROMINENT WHITE PERSON, IS THERE ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVES THIS WOULD BE GOING ON LIKE THIS?

One system of justice for the Black and the working class, ANOTHER one for the white and the rich.
O0
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 04:10:42 PM by Bison66 »

Offline oldsport

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What possible CREDIBLE reason can there be for an investigation of a killing caught on tape to still be in process 6 months later?

This child has not been buried because of the City of Cleveland


VIDEO HERE:  http://www.brothersonsports.com/ricenotburied1/

The City of Cleveland is TORTURING THIS FAMILY by not permitting them to bury their child.  
The City of Cleveland is BLACKMAILING THIS FAMILY trying to get them to drop their lawsuit.

Quote
Neither of the officers’ involved in the shooting, Timothy Loehmann and his partner Frank Garmback, have been charged in Rice’s death and they have asked a federal judge to halt the Rice family’s federal civil rights lawsuit while the sheriff completes an independent criminal investigation.
City attorneys are arguing in Loehmann and Garmback’s motion that they fear their answers in the federal investigation may self-incriminate them in the criminal case, “where the stakes are significantly higher and their liberty is directly at risk.”

WTF!!!

In that case, JUST FINISH THE INVESTIGATION AND CHARGE (OR NOT) THE OFFICER(S) INVOLVED.

What possible CREDIBLE reason can there be for an investigation of a killing caught on tape to still be in process 6 months later?

IS THERE ANYONE IN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE CITY OF CLEVELAND's TOP ECHELONS WITH A CONSCIENCE?

THIS IS A F'ING TRAVESTY!

IF THIS WAS THE CHILD OF A PROMINENT WHITE PERSON, IS THERE ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVES THIS WOULD BE GOING ON LIKE THIS?

One system of justice for the Black and the working class, ANOTHER one for the white and the rich.
O0

Very unfortunate incident. Still a anomaly. Black gunmen in Chicago and elsewhere regularly shoot innocent children and not by mistake.

By the way, thank God you're in a open republic and democratic society. In a socialist or communist run country in Africa, you would have never heard about this incident.

Oh I bet you didn't mind OJ's rich man's justice. You probably was one of the ones who cheered when this killer walked.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 04:15:46 PM by oldsport »

Offline Wildman78

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Very unfortunate incident. Still a anomaly. Black gunmen in Chicago and elsewhere regularly shoot innocent children and not by mistake.

By the way, thank God you're in a open republic and democratic society. In a socialist or communist run country in Africa, you would have never heard about this incident.

Oh I bet you didn't mind OJ's rich man's justice. You probably was one of the ones who cheered when this killer walked.


Everything after "very unfortunate incident" is completely irrelevent.

Oh yes Ms. Rice. We know your child is dead because some police officer shot him while he was holding a BB gun less than 2 seconds after officers arrived on the scene. However, you must realize that this is an anamoly, and young Black kids are often killed by other Blacks during gang disputes either intentionally or accidentally, so you should not be too angry.

Also, be glad you live in America as oppose to some other country.  At least here,  the officers will be tried for the crime, although the chances of them being convicted are slim. However, you have the opportunity to seek civil redress. So, just be thankful, and don't raise too much of a fuss.

Does that about size up your argument Oldsport.  >:(
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 04:44:30 PM by Wildman78 »

Offline Que82

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Very unfortunate incident. Still a anomaly. Black gunmen in Chicago and elsewhere regularly shoot innocent children and not by mistake.

By the way, thank God you're in a open republic and democratic society. In a socialist or communist run country in Africa, you would have never heard about this incident.

Oh I bet you didn't mind OJ's rich man's justice. You probably was one of the ones who cheered when this killer walked.


Everything after "very unfortunate incident" is completely irrelevent.

Oh yes Ms. Rice. We know your child is dead because some police officer shot him while he was holding a BB gun less than 2 seconds after officers arrived on the scene. However, you must realize that this is an anamoly, and young Black kids are often killed by other Blacks during gang disputes either intentionally or accidentally, so you should not be too angry.

Also, be glad you live in America as oppose to some other country.  At least here,  the officers will be tried for the crime, although the chances of them being convicted are slim. However, you have the opportunity to seek civil redress. So, just be thankful, and don't raise too much of a fuss.


Does that about size up your argument Oldsport.  >:(

Damn, just reading this made me feel some kind of way. :shrug:
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