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Author Topic: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."  (Read 80296 times)

Offline Bison66

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.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology [determined]the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

"The anthropologists and scientists who support such a theory realize its inanity to such an extent that they have resorted to all sorts of conceptual subtleties, construed all kinds of specious arguments into convincing reasons, accepted all types of scholarly ravings as serious probabilities, all in order to make people believe that the ancient Egyptians were White.
 
"Caucasian presumption could not suffer the idea that, in the first flowering of progress, a race Europeans consider radically inferior could produce a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization. Fortunately, light is being shed today on all the basic issues, particularly in the field of Egyptology. Scientists from all the great nations have conducted research in the field with enthusiasm and with a sense of emulation even rivalry, to the greater glory of science. It is becoming impossible, then, to resist the evidence of facts and to remain captive of obsolete theories."-- Antenor Firmin, The Equality of the Human Races, p. 227-228 (2002)

From a review of the book by the Haitian scholar:
Quote
As Fluehr-Lobban points out in her introduction, Firmin’s work was ahead of its time not only in its assertion of racial equality, but also in terms of the ways in which it engaged with art, literature and indeed, “popular culture.” Several of Firmin’s chapters anticipate later theoretical movements of the twentieth century. His discussion of Egypt as the source of European civilization echoes Martin Bernal’s controversial arguments in Black Athena (1987). In a move that presages later postcolonial critiques, he analyses the role played by theological doctrines in “popularizing the theory of race inequality” (Firmin 405), and also explores the repeated casting of Blacks as the Devil in paintings (Ary Scheffer’s The Temptation of Christ, 1856)  and in literature (Victor Hugo’s La Légende des siécles). At several points as I was reading Firmin’s work I had to remind myself that it was written in 1885. Overall I found it a relevant, provocative and fascinating read.
http://classes.yale.edu/03-04/anth500b/projects/project_sites/04_Chattaraj/Introduction.html

This book was first published in 1885 in French.
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« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 09:23:19 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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Medicine:



Quote
Imhotep was worshipped as a god and healer from approximately 2850 B.C. to 525 B.C., and as a full deity from 525 B.C. to 550 A.D. He lived during the Third Dynasty at the court of King Zoser in Egypt. Imhotep was a known scribe, chief lector, priest, architect, astronomer and magician (medicine and magic were used together in that era). For 3000 years he was worshipped as a god in Greece and Rome. Early Christians worshipped him as the “Prince of Peace.”

When the Egyptians crossed the Mediterranean, becoming the foundation of the Greek culture, Imhotep’s teachings and philosophies were absorbed there. The Greeks equated him with Aesculapius (Hermes). He was regarded as the god of study and in later times took on some of the attributes of Thoth or Tehuti as the scribe of the gods. In the time of Imhotep, healing was considered one of the secret sciences of priestcraft. Candidates aspiring to be trained in the healing tradition underwent severe tests or initiations to prove their worthiness at various stages of their training. Among the ancients, philosophy, science and religion/spirituality were never considered as separate units- they comprised a balanced whole- and this concept was considered integral to healing modalities.

The story of Imhotep disappeared in Greek mythology over time and was forgotten for thousands of years, A legendary figure, Hippocrates, who appeared 2000 years later in 5th century BC, became known as the Father of Medicine.
http://www.shiftyourlife.com/2010/the-future-of-medicine-medical-training-a-return-to-holistic-hermetic-medical-principles/
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Offline Bison66

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MATHEMATICS:

Quote
Egyptian Mathematics
Our first knowledge of mankindís use of mathematics beyond mere
counting comes from the Egyptians and Babylonians. Both civilizations developed mathematics that was similar in some ways but
different in others. The mathematics of Egypt, at least what is
known from the papyri, can essentially be called applied arithmetic.
It was practical information communicated via example on how to
solve specific problems....

...Construction projects on a massive scale were routinely carried
out. The logistics of construction require all sorts of mathematics.
You will see several mensuration (measurement) problems, simple
algebra problems, and the methods for computation.
Our sources of Egyptian mathematics are scarce. Indeed, much of
our knowledge of ancient Egyptian mathematics comes not from the
hieroglyphics
3
(carved sacred letters or sacred letters) inscribed on
the hundreds of temples but from two papyri containing collections of mathematical problems with their solutions.
ï The Rhind Mathematical Papyrus named for A.H. Rhind (1833-
1863) who purchased it at Luxor in 1858. Origin: 1650 BCE
but it was written very much earlier. It is 18 feet long and
13 inches wide. It is also called the Ahmes Papyrus after the
scribe that last copied it.
ï The Moscow Mathematical Papyrus purchased by V. S. Golenishchev (d. 1947). Origin: 1700 BC. It is 15 ft long and 3 inches
wide. Two sections of this chapter offer highlights from these
papyri.
http://www.math.tamu.edu/~dallen/masters/egypt_babylon/egypt.pdf
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« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 04:29:44 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline MisterIkester

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He's made 5 threads today, yet he's afraid to show his face here.

:no:
"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually." -James Baldwin

Offline Bison66

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Ikester, as you know already, this thread is not for him.
One cannot use rationality to address someone who has reached conclusions non-rationally.

So, ONWARD:

Note the timeline for Europe's most ancient and vaunted civilizations:



...as compared with Kemet (ancient Egypt)


We're looking at a difference of THOUSANDS of years in terms of the initiation of civilizations.  Very little evidence of advanced civilization in the remainder (outside Greece) of Europe while civilization was thriving in Kemet.

So, it is understandable - even appropriate - that the early Greeks THEMSELVES would:
- brag that their scholars had studied in Africa/Egypt, sometimes for decades
- give much credit, which they did, for their own civilization to the Black Egyptians,
- say that the Egyptians were the most beautiful and most intelligent people and
- even regard Egypt as the point of origin of the Greek gods, whose names they changed. 

I do not mention this as if it is necessary for "a white man" to verify the facts, but to point out the following...
Over time, successions of later Greeks "forgot" about the African roots of Greek civilization and then - as "race" became a more significant cultural and political construct - there were those Europeans, whose worldview would be dramatically destabilized by the recollection and recognition that African/Black/Kemetan people had been the respected and reknown teachers of the Greeks in medicine, philosophy, science, etc.  That recognition would have made it more difficult to rationalize and justify, for example, chattel slavery of Africans.

PLUS as more recent scientific techniques have been developed, the dates for the timeline for Kemet (ancient Egypt) keep getting pushed back further...and further.  For example, some scientists now believe that the Sphinx is MUCH OLDER than previously thought - maybe by a thousand years or more.

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Offline Bison66

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...architecture and monument building.


Quote
AMENHOTEP :2nd architect- like IMHOTEP--was worshipped as a god long after his death, He was born a thousand years after his predeccork he was "Amenhotep son of Hapu". Amenhotep served the king whose name sake he was -Amenhotep III , of the 18 Dynasty , some scholars give him credit for Luxor Temple. Which is one of the most harmonious structure in Egypt. Like IMHOTEP Amenhotep son of Hapu was not only an architect , but a wise man of reputation. He was born of uniportant parents in Delta town of Athribs, and he started his career as a humble military scribe in charge of recruitment. It was evident his superior talent which led him to recognition, he eventually achieve from the King; not on were statues of him erected in the temple of Karnak, but he had the unpreccedented honor of a temple on the west bank of Thebes. Near that of the King, who thought so highly of him.

http://kemetichistoryofafrikabluelotus.blogspot.com/2008/12/egyptian-architecture-advance-3-major.html

Can you say "Greek columns"?

The Karnak Temple in Luxor, Egypt

For more than ONE HUNDRED YEARS European scientists and others tried to explain why the people depicted in hundreds upon hundreds of ancient illustrative art works in Egypt were not Black. 

They came up with many silly "explanations," but eventually - after the most brutal period of African exploitation had ended - the experts had to admit that Egyptian civilization was a Black African civilization with roots further up (South) the Nile in Nubia.

As the OP asserted, it is impossible to maintain the inferiority of African people while simultaneously admitting that the people who inhabited Kemet were Black, who created an advanced civilization.  Some European "scholars" maintained for generations that when the Greeks referred to Kemet as "The Land of the Blacks" that they were actually referring to the rich black soil along the River Nile.  :lmao: 

Racism and belief in white so-called supremacy will make people think and do stupid things.  History and current events prove that beyond a doubt.
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« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 04:18:18 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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PHILOSOPHY & RELIGION

Already addressed on this board in a different context:
http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php/topic,63634.15.html

And...
Quote
Hippocrates, often described as “the father of modern medicine,” learned medicine in Egypt. Herodotus, “the first Greek historian,” wrote:  “Almost all the names of the gods came into Greece from Egypt.”  Professor A. E. Amelineau of France, wrote in 1916, “…the most famous Greek systems, notably those of Plato and Aristotle…originated in Egypt. I fail to see why ancient Greece should reap all the honor for ideas she borrowed from Egypt.”  Diop reminds us that among the two-thirds of Greek scholars who studied in Egypt were Pythagoras, Thales, Solon, Archimedes and Eratosthenes. 
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Offline EB

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I highly recommend that one read about the ancient Egyptians.  They will see how much of our society came from theirs.

Offline Bison66

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Indeed, EB, indeed!
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Offline Bison66

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Before we move on from RELIGION.
Isn't it interesting that no "world" religion has originated in Europe?

Others were founded by" Europeans" in North America:
Church of Scientology 1954
Church of Christ, Scientist 1879
Church of Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Mormonism) circa 1820

OK, next...........

CALENDAR

And this one is especially deep considering that they figured out a 1,460 year cycle based upon the rise of the star Sirius.


http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egyptian-calendar.html

Quote


Just as with Geometry, the Egyptians were the exclusive inventors of the calendar,
the very one which...regulates our life today, and about which scientists say “that is the only intelligent calendar that has ever existed in human history”. They invented the 365 day year, breaking it down as follows: 12 months of 30 days, plus 5 days corresponding to the birth of one of the following Egyptian gods (neter): Osiris, Isis, Horus, Seth, and Nephtys. These are the same neter who will give birth to the human race and inaugurate the cycles of historic times: Adam and Eve are only belated Biblical representations of Osiris and Isis.

The year is divided ionto three seasons of four months, the month into three weeks of ten days that do not overlap the months; the day into 24 hours. The Egyptians knew that this calendar year was too short, that was lacking a quarter of a day in order for it to correspond with a complete sidereal revolution. Also, in 4236 B.C. they invented a second astronomical calendar founded precisely on this time lag, this delay, of a quarter of a day per year, in the 365-day calendar year as compared to the sidereal , or astronomical, calendar. The time lag thus accumulated at the end of four years is equal to one day. Instead of adding 1 day every 4 years (a leap year), the Egyptians preferred the masterful solution of following this lag for 1,460 years...

...One gets lost in conjecture in order to figure out how the Egyptians were able to arrive at such a result from protohistory, because it is known with certainty that the sidereal calendar was in use from 4236 B.C. onward. Supposing that a celestial phenomenon as fleeting as the rising of Sirius had accidentally caught the attention of the Egyptians from the 4th Millenium onward, or how they could've guessed at and verified, within a few minutes, its rigorous periodicity, in a time span of 1,460 years, and thus invented a calendar on this basis??  Did they arrive at this result through empirical or theoretical means?
http://cheikhantadiop.com/books-by-cheikh-anta-diop/africa-contributions-calendar.html  {SORRY, THIS IS A DEAD LINK - 2014 }
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« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 05:29:56 AM by Bison66 »
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Offline Neymar

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I say its pretty short sighted to say Egyptians werent a white race....They were. They were also a brown race, a yellow, and equally important a black race.

Egypt has always, and especially at the apex of its civilization, been a nation of many different cultures and people. A meeting place of people of many different stocks to come together, trade, learn, and even have children. No single ethnic group can claim total credit for what Egypt was.

Ive spent a lot of time in egypt. My old man was born outside of Kirdasa near the outskirts of Cairo. We often visited family there.



Notice all of their different shades. Outside of me at the bottom(and my sister who you all should be able to tell and is half Abyssinian like me) the rest are almost exclusively of pure Egyptian heritage.

President of Egypt Mr. Morsi.

He is from the north and has egyptian berber identity

Famous comedian Sa3mir Ghaneem

An egyptian of Arab stock and is from the river through Cairo

Famous classic egyptian star Suuad Hosni

An Egyptian of Mediterranean European stock from Buulaaq.

Even my grandmother

Egyptian of Nubian stock from Aswan.

Egypt, like Brazil and USA, are made up of many different types of people.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 10:43:26 AM by Neymar »

Offline PharoahNupe94

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I say its pretty short sighted to say Egyptians werent a white race....They were. They were also a brown race, a yellow, and equally important a black race.

Egypt has always, and especially at the apex of its civilization, been a nation of many different cultures and people. A meeting place of people of many different stocks to come together, trade, learn, and even have children. No single ethnic group can claim total credit for what Egypt was.

Ive spent a lot of time in egypt. My old man was born outside of Kirdasa near the outskirts of Cairo. We often visited family there.

This was me and my sister with cousins last time we visited Cairo a couple of years back


Notice all of their different shades. Outside of me at the bottom(and my sister who you all should be able to tell and is half Abyssinian like me) the rest are almost exclusively of pure Egyptian heritage.

President of Egypt Mr. Morsi.

He is from the north and has egyptian berber identity

Famous comedian Sa3mir Ghaneem

An egyptian of Arab stock and is from the river through Cairo

Famous classic egyptian star Suuad Hosni

An Egyptian of Mediterranean European stock from Buulaaq.

Even my grandmother

Egyptian of Nubian stock from Aswan.

Egypt, like Brazil and USA, are made up of many different types of people.

I agree with some of what you said Neymar but the Egypt today isnt nothing like the Egypt of back in it's glory days.
Egypt eventually became a melting pot that brought all types of people but the Europeans came way later bro. Sorry


Offline Neymar

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I say its pretty short sighted to say Egyptians werent a white race....They were. They were also a brown race, a yellow, and equally important a black race.

Egypt has always, and especially at the apex of its civilization, been a nation of many different cultures and people. A meeting place of people of many different stocks to come together, trade, learn, and even have children. No single ethnic group can claim total credit for what Egypt was.

Ive spent a lot of time in egypt. My old man was born outside of Kirdasa near the outskirts of Cairo. We often visited family there.

This was me and my sister with cousins last time we visited Cairo a couple of years back


Notice all of their different shades. Outside of me at the bottom(and my sister who you all should be able to tell and is half Abyssinian like me) the rest are almost exclusively of pure Egyptian heritage.

President of Egypt Mr. Morsi.

He is from the north and has egyptian berber identity

Famous comedian Sa3mir Ghaneem

An egyptian of Arab stock and is from the river through Cairo

Famous classic egyptian star Suuad Hosni

An Egyptian of Mediterranean European stock from Buulaaq.

Even my grandmother

Egyptian of Nubian stock from Aswan.

Egypt, like Brazil and USA, are made up of many different types of people.

I agree with some of what you said Neymar but the Egypt today isnt nothing like the Egypt of back in it's glory days.
Egypt eventually became a melting pot that brought all types of people but the Europeans came way later bro. Sorry



Since there was an Egypt there was a Europe via what would later become Greece(Be it the Ptolemaic dynasty, The Achaemenid empire, or even the Neo Babylonian empire.). These people were caucasian, and they did come across to Egypt and intermingle with them.

As long as there was an Egypt as we knew, there were white people there. Whether or not they were ruling(which they werent until the ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt) is a different story....but they were always there as we knew it. Mongols too.

Offline PharoahNupe94

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Since there was an Egypt there was a Europe via what would later become Greece(Be it the Ptolemaic dynasty, The Achaemenid empire, or even the Neo Babylonian empire.). These people were caucasian, and they did come across to Egypt and intermingle with them.

As long as there was an Egypt as we knew, there were white people there. Whether or not they were ruling(which they werent until the ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt) is a different story....but they were always there as we knew it. Mongols too.

Of course white folks eventually came to egypt and yes they eventually took over when the Greeks showed up.
I doubt it very serious they were there during the early days and during the great dynasty.
Some of you guys give white folks toooo much created  :no:

Let me ask you this Neymar.

Do you think white people was in China during the Ming Dynasty?
Do you think white people was in Mexico during the Mayans Dynasty?

You are cool with me man. I just dont agree with your statement fully


Offline Bison66

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Neymar,
Thanks for your comments, but....

Pharoah is correct.

Showing pictures of current-day Egyptians to address 6,000 years ago is like showing photos of current day "Americans" to dispute the claim that Native/Indigenous people built the pyramids of Mexico.  After what you asserted re the mixing of peoples, how can you seriously say "pure Egyptian heritage"?  Egypt is a nation, not a race.  But, if you like, we can trade "anecdotal" info:  I met a large "pure Black" man, who was driving a tow truck in Washington, DC.  Being a Pan-Africanist, I asked him where he was from.  He was from the southern part of Egypt and his family had been displaced when the dam was built and they had relocated to Cairo.

The point that the Kemetans (Ancient Egyptians) were Black is proven scientifically beyond dispute by Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop and other scholars.
May I suggest reading his definitive work on the subject?
The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality

If you have not read it, you can "peek" inside here:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/1556520727/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Now.....You may argue about whether a shade of color makes a difference, but then you would be declaring many modern day African-Americans throughout the Western Hemisphere as non-Black.  My simple test is always whether a person sitting next to Rosa Parks on the bus would have also been arrested also.


But more to the point, just as Greece borrowed heavily from Kemet, Egypt was the cultural child of Nubia which was located in modern day Sudan.  Any Europeans there 6,000 or 8,000 years ago?  I doubt it, but the ancestors of the tow truck driver were there!!!
http://nap.mojanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/NAP_lo-112x110.jpg

A map of the region as it existed in ancient times shows that the birth of civilization was well beyond the reach - in time and distance - of those on the other side of the Mediterranean.


As of 7,000 years ago...
Quote
By the middle of the 5th millennium BC, Nubia's Neolithic peoples were full participants in the "agricultural revolution," living a settled lifestyle with domesticated plants and animals. Rock art of cattle and herdsmen found during our expedition suggests the presence of a cattle cult like those found in the Sudan and other parts of Africa today.
http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/stsmith/research/nubia_history.html

And the research in Nubia continues: http://nap.mojanet.com/
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 06:54:13 PM by Bison66 »
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