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Author Topic: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE  (Read 3082 times)

Offline Cholly

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2012, 06:06:25 PM »
^^^ESPECIALLY in Bay, Okaloosa or Santa Rosa Counties...  >:(


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Offline Bison66

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2012, 10:09:08 AM »
The standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt.  However, it does appear that Zimmerman has a decent chance of being acquitted.

Correct;  that WAS covered at the Perry Mason Law School. 

I was taking a bit of poetic licence, but I presume that the defense will try to get the jury to think of proof having to be "beyond a shadow of doubt."

We are on the same page re: the chances of an acquittal.
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Offline Que82

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2012, 08:00:52 PM »
Que82 and Wildman,

In this case - trying to be objective - my complaint would be that not ENOUGH information/evidence was released OR that selective info was leaked.

Recall all of "our" suspicions about whether GZ had been injured and the scrutinization of the video of him going into the police station to see if there was evidence of injury to his head?

Clearly, the info now being released, including the eye/ear witnesses statement, pretty much puts those suspicions to rest.

What shall probably never be known FOR SURE (unless there is even more unreleased evidence!!) is what exactly happened at the initiation of struggle between the two.  

I continue to believe that GZ approached TM and when TM did not take kindly to being challenged, GZ showed that he had a gun to intimidate TM.  TM stood his ground, fought for the gun and his life, but lost.

We'll see if there is evidence either way on that.

But, clearly IMO, by killing the only other known witness to the ENTIRE encounter, GZ has increased his chances of getting away with it.  Beyond a "shadow of a doubt" is a high standard - as it should be.
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The standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt.  However, it does appear that Zimmerman has a decent chance of being acquitted.

I would hate to be in Florida if that happens.  :shrug:
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Offline Bison66

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2012, 03:29:07 AM »
Que82 and Wildman,

In this case - trying to be objective - my complaint would be that not ENOUGH information/evidence was released OR that selective info was leaked.

Recall all of "our" suspicions about whether GZ had been injured and the scrutinization of the video of him going into the police station to see if there was evidence of injury to his head?

Clearly, the info now being released, including the eye/ear witnesses statement, pretty much puts those suspicions to rest.

What shall probably never be known FOR SURE (unless there is even more unreleased evidence!!) is what exactly happened at the initiation of struggle between the two.  

I continue to believe that GZ approached TM and when TM did not take kindly to being challenged, GZ showed that he had a gun to intimidate TM.  TM stood his ground, fought for the gun and his life, but lost.

We'll see if there is evidence either way on that.

But, clearly IMO, by killing the only other known witness to the ENTIRE encounter, GZ has increased his chances of getting away with it.  Beyond a "shadow of a doubt" is a high standard - as it should be.
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The standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. However, it does appear that Zimmerman has a decent chance of being acquitted.

I would hate to be in Florida if that happens.  :shrug:
I think and I hope that there will not a seriously violent reaction.  A few folks will be upset and may get out of control, but I think most peeps will see that it is a difficult case to prove - unless there is still more evidence to come.
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Offline QueHBCUFan

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2012, 08:26:58 AM »
I think and I hope that there will not a seriously violent reaction.  A few folks will be upset and may get out of control, but I think most peeps will see that it is a difficult case to prove - unless there is still more evidence to come.

Really ???  You actually feel only a few people, Black folks in particular, will be outraged if GZ is set free?  I beg to differ my friend and I also disagree that MOST people would see it as a difficult case to prove.  IMO, only those who refuse to review the facts leading up to TM killing would believe that.  :shrug:
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Offline Wildman78

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2012, 09:32:44 AM »
I think and I hope that there will not a seriously violent reaction.  A few folks will be upset and may get out of control, but I think most peeps will see that it is a difficult case to prove - unless there is still more evidence to come.

Really ???  You actually feel only a few people, Black folks in particular, will be outraged if GZ is set free?  I beg to differ my friend and I also disagree that MOST people would see it as a difficult case to prove.  IMO, only those who refuse to review the facts leading up to TM killing would believe that.  :shrug:

I think the difficulty of the case lies in proving who started the physical altercation. Zimmerman was wrong to profile, follow and confront Trayvon. However, none of those actions are criminal and would not "automatically or necessarily" provoke a physical response from Trayvon. 

A number of  "so called" criminal defense experts have come out and said Zimmerman has a decent self defense case:


George Zimmerman Case: Should Charges Be Dropped?

Two prominent U.S. lawyers are among the skeptics questioning whether evidence in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin supports the second-degree murder charge against George Zimmerman, given the confessed shooter's apparent injuries and freshly released eyewitness accounts.

"There is no second-degree murder evidence in this case," Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz said. "It's a very close case."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-case-charges-dropped/story?id=16392466

Offline Cholly

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2012, 09:34:35 AM »
Weeeeeeeellll.....

Look what just happened in Houston:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/18/11752590-protest-erupts-after-all-white-jury-acquits-ex-houston-cop-over-teens-beating?lite

I'll admit, 200 people isn't much of a race riot, but imagine what will happen in Sanford when that Okaloosa County ALL-WHITE JURY lets zimmerman off the hook...  :tiptoe:


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Offline SPC Fighting Tiger

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2012, 01:37:29 PM »

Really ???  You actually feel only a few people, Black folks in particular, will be outraged if GZ is set free?  I beg to differ my friend and I also disagree that MOST people would see it as a difficult case to prove.  IMO, only those who refuse to review the facts leading up to TM killing would believe that.  :shrug:

THis is a difficult murder 2 case.

Manslaughter, not so much.  Be prepared for the plea bargain down to voluntary manslaughter.

However, I pray that all will be resolved once Mr. Zimmerman eventually gets released to general population.  :nod: :tiptoe:
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Offline oldsport

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2012, 01:46:54 PM »
HEY SPC....IS THE LAST SENTENCE MEANT TO IMPLY A THREAT TO MR. ZIMMERMAN'S PHYSICAL BEING?

Offline Cholly

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2012, 10:50:12 PM »

Really ???  You actually feel only a few people, Black folks in particular, will be outraged if GZ is set free?  I beg to differ my friend and I also disagree that MOST people would see it as a difficult case to prove.  IMO, only those who refuse to review the facts leading up to TM killing would believe that.  :shrug:

THis is a difficult murder 2 case.

Manslaughter, not so much.  Be prepared for the plea bargain down to voluntary manslaughter.

However, I pray that all will be resolved once Mr. Zimmerman eventually gets released to general population.  :nod: :tiptoe:

Even if there is no plea bargain... which I'm betting there won't be... the Jury can STILL find him guilty of the Lesser and Included Offense.  :nod:


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Offline Cholly

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2012, 10:51:41 PM »
HEY SPC....IS THE LAST SENTENCE MEANT TO IMPLY A THREAT TO MR. ZIMMERMAN'S PHYSICAL BEING?

Why don't you hold your breath until he answers you; that way you can see for yourself. ;)


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Offline Bison66

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2012, 11:14:56 PM »
I think and I hope that there will not a seriously violent reaction.  A few folks will be upset and may get out of control, but I think most peeps will see that it is a difficult case to prove - unless there is still more evidence to come.

Really ???  You actually feel only a few people, Black folks in particular, will be outraged if GZ is set free?  I beg to differ my friend and I also disagree that MOST people would see it as a difficult case to prove.  IMO, only those who refuse to review the facts leading up to TM killing would believe that.  :shrug:
Yeah, actually I do.  I tend to be more dispassionate than some, and of course, I acknowledge that I could be wrong, but.....

We've seen several elements of evidence recently released that IMO would have forestalled quite a bit of the outrage IF from the beginning we all had been privy to, for example,
the bloody wounds to GZ's head,
his nose injuries,
the FULL statement of the 911 caller/witness,
injuries to TM's hands. 

I believe that the INITIAL reporting - almost always inaccurate - led to a perception of much more one-sided encounter.  THAT IMO contributed to the level of outrage and IN RETROSPECT partially explains the decision not to indict prior to TM's parents quest for justice. 

The evidence I would present for my conclusion is in the comments sections of all kinds of BBs including this one that relied on info that turned out to be incorrect.  In addition to the items I mentioned above, another is the body weight that was reported for GZ which led many to feel that he was big guy taking on a skinny kid.  And frankly, had it been initially been reported that GZ was Black, quite a bit of outrage would have been dissipated.

I ain't saying what SHOULD BE, I'm jus' sayin'....

Now, I admit that since the outrage is already out of the barn, it is useless to close the barn door, but I think as the trial progresses, more and more folks will see that it IS a difficult case to PROVE. 

All of that could easily be countered by Cholly's prediction - if it turns out that way - that a change of venue (a la Simi Valley) appears to deliver a quick and unjust not guilty verdict. 

Finally, however, if there are 3 or 4 Black folks on the jury and GZ is acquitted, I'll stick with my prediction:  a few -some with other agendas (NBPP) - may get out of control.
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Offline Cholly

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Re: ZIMMERMAN WILL BE FOUND NOT GUILTY BE REASON OF SELF-DEFENSE
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2012, 10:28:22 AM »
Those so-called WOUNDS on zimmerman are MINOR and run CONTRARY to his claim that he was in a fight that cause him to "fear great bodily harm or death"... the standard needed in any stand your ground case here.

Additionally, contrary to what others have said about who threw the first punch, it is CLEAR that zimmerman initiated the altercation that precipitated the fatal shot. And though it is not a crime to follow or confront someone, gven his history of violence and state of mind that night, the prosecution has MORE than enough of a case to win a Manslaughter conviction and maybe even 2nd Degree Murder.

The problem will NOT be the evidence... but Jury Nulification.

This Trial is going to be moved to the most racist, unsympathetic part of the state and he will get a bunch of white people on his jury who WILL let him off the hook.  >:(


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