[oldsport]

u, said....."As far as Obama being a liar.....he is".

I second that and third that....Barry's a liar to the hundredth power..... These idiots know it.

[uchighlander]

And since you're here os, you add to that stupid number right?  

That may be what your son CLAIMS uch, but that will not be what is practiced...this law is no different than "driving while black" except now you don't have to be driving. You can be walking, biking, skateboarding - whatever...

GK.....I'm sorry you think my son is a liar.....he isn't. As he has told me on a number of occasions....Dad....I've got better things to do than stop every hispanic looking person I see. GO VIKINGS!!!

highlander,

Check it out:
YOU "accuse" GK of thinking your son is a liar.
YOU "accuse" Obama of being a liar re: folks being able to keep their health insurance.

GK was not questioning what your son said; she was speaking of the BEHAVIOR of OTHERS (not what your son said).

On the other hand, you accuse Obama of lying BECAUSE of the decisions that OTHERS MIGHT make (the owner of your company (you told us) told you he would drop their insurance).

So, using YOUR logic, YOU would have to say that your son is a liar since OTHERS MIGHT misbehave.

Right?
 

Good spin job. Damn.....where do you come up with this thought process anyway. Read GK's post again.....she challenged the validity of what my son said....as in not true. I don't know the final outcome regarding healthcare and neither do you. As far as Obama being a liar.....he is. Yesterday he stood in front of a group of people in Iowa and said that the AZ immigration law allows law enforcement officials to just walk up to anyone and ask for their papers. That is not true and he should know it. There has to be lawful contact and after that contact resonable suspicion that the person is here illegally. GO VIKINGS!!!

NO spin, friend.  Here is your original statement:
"Sheriff Joe is his boss. I asked him to tell me about this law.....will you really stop people because they look hispanic? His response was.....we will continue to do things just like we do now. "

Your son, as GK pointed out, doesn't speak for the dept, he is expressing an OPINION based on his experience of what OTHERS WILL DO.  PLUS, he doesn't CONTROL what others do, nor is he responsible for what others do.

Same thing that YOU accused Obama of (and don't try to change the subject until we deal with this one, OK?) when he said that folks could keep their insurance under his plan.  YOU said that the possible actions of OTHERS, like your boss, made him a liar.

EDIT:  Note that IN BOTH CASES, WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN HAD NOT HAPPENED; IT IS SPECULATION.  So, based on your and others' speculation, you claimed that Obama lied.

Same pure logic = same ridiculous characterization.  Your son, despite your logic, is not a liar; he was expressing his expectation of results from what was under his control - just like Obama.

It's so plain.
 

Ahhhh.....but he is speaking for the dept. because that is their poilcy and he implements it. As for Obama.....leaving critical details out of a discussion does not get him off the hook. He has a habit of telling only part of the story. If he told the whole story.....well gee....that would make him an honest polititician now wouldn't it. GO VIKINGS!!!

[Valley Girl]

Os you need to be the LAST person calling somebody a liar

[oldsport]

Os you need to be the LAST person calling somebody a liar

Hey VG you don't know how right you are. However, they say it takes one to know one. Believe me I know Barry's a liar!

[Ramese98]

I just read this law and it is exactly what people say it is....a liscense to racial profile.....Hispanic Americans {(yes CHOLLY I know it applies wholly), but in this instance let me just focus here} the key words here are: Lawful Contact: which is not defined and too vague, probable cause: what is probable cause when over 50% of your state legal populate is Hispanic or Hispanic Origin (once again in this sitiuation it is too vague). This is a driving, walking, sleeping, eating and etc. while you look "MEXICAN" law. 

I am all for Immigration Reform, but lets do it  right...

AZ been here before 1954 Arizonia vs Miranda

[uchighlander]

I just read this law and it is exactly what people say it is....a liscense to racial profile.....Hispanic Americans {(yes CHOLLY I know it applies wholly), but in this instance let me just focus here} the key words here are: Lawful Contact: which is not defined and too vague, probable cause: what is probable cause when over 50% of your state legal populate is Hispanic or Hispanic Origin (once again in this sitiuation it is too vague). This is a driving, walking, sleeping, eating and etc. while you look "MEXICAN" law. 

I am all for Immigration Reform, but lets do it  right...

AZ been here before 1954 Arizonia vs Miranda

Just WHERE does it give a license to profile? Just where? It doesn't. You and so many other are just speculating what law enforcement MIGHT do under this law. GO VIKINGS!!!

[Twin Que ASU]

We really have an illegal immigrant problem coming from our southern border.  AZ is victim of a massive crime wave.  Most of which is caused by illegal immigrants. Our economy is both suffering and prospering by this unfortunate fact.  We really need reform but the law that will be enacted by Arizona has the realistic potential to be abused by law enforcement.  I recall friends driving the NJ Turnpike about 12 years ago.  Because they fit 'the profile' of potential drug runners they were harassed.  It was not the point of being stopped for speeding (which they were), they were detained for more than 2 hours for background checks and vehicle search.  The point being, just because law enforcement was allowed, they took it to the extreme.  
My personal story was about the same in 91 after returning from the gulf war.  I was stopped and severely delayed for suspicious behavior.  It was because I was black and just because I had a new car headed to DC.  I was not given a ticket but 1 hour for vehicle search and background check.  My US Army ID showing I was an active duty officer meant nothing.  I fit the profile.
The potential exists for abuse.  Something else should be looked at to fix this potential.  
And to those who say, if you haven't done anything wrong or have nothing to hide -- you are OK....
that is not the point.... the point is why should legal citizens be subjected to this type of harassment.
That is not OK, IMHO
But something does need to be done...  Novel thought...  Why not go after the employers that hire these people or the big drug dealers (upper echelon) who contract these people to run drugs.....  Street dealers don't count.......

[oldsport]

I just read this law and it is exactly what people say it is....a liscense to racial profile.....Hispanic Americans {(yes CHOLLY I know it applies wholly), but in this instance let me just focus here} the key words here are: Lawful Contact: which is not defined and too vague, probable cause: what is probable cause when over 50% of your state legal populate is Hispanic or Hispanic Origin (once again in this sitiuation it is too vague). This is a driving, walking, sleeping, eating and etc. while you look "MEXICAN" law. 

I am all for Immigration Reform, but lets do it  right...

AZ been here before 1954 Arizonia vs Miranda

Just WHERE does it give a license to profile? Just where? It doesn't. You and so many other are just speculating what law enforcement MIGHT do under this law. GO VIKINGS!!!

You will not get a answer. This is just the red herring these liberal/socialist/communist throw up. They're interested in one thing and one thing only. THE DESTRUCTION OF THIS COUNTRY.

[Valley Girl]

Do you ACTUALLY believe the law would specifically say thay police officers have a right to profile? Be for real

The problem is what the law doesn't say, which is what constitutes probable cause when referring to illegal immigration....

os you went off the deep end long ago, so even addressing your nonsense about is wanting to destroy the country is an act in futility  

[oldsport]

Do you ACTUALLY believe the law would specifically say thay police officers have a right to profile? Be for real

The problem is what the law doesn't say, which is what constitutes probable cause when referring to illegal immigration....

os you went off the deep end long ago, so even addressing your nonsense about is wanting to destroy the country is an act in futility  

This is not about racial profiling....So stop using that red herring. This is a about law enforcement matter as well as a national security issue. IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT YOU'RE A DYAM IDIOT.  Arizona would not have been forced to enact this law had the federal government done it's job and provided adequate border security.

[Valley Girl]

You just used John McCain's biggest talking point, but I am using the red herring...

Ok...

Tell me dear sirs, how exactly can you tell the difference between a native and an illegal? Do you really not think that all LEO's will be above board? 

There are some good LEO's that do their jobs! But there are others that are just as rotten and corrupt as you can get...they can now do what they have been doing (yes it is racial profiling) under the guise of, "it's the law"

But why am I explaining this? Believe what you want to...

[Cholly]

We really have an illegal immigrant problem coming from our southern border.  AZ is victim of a massive crime wave.  Most of which is caused by illegal immigrants. Our economy is both suffering and prospering by this unfortunate fact.  We really need reform but the law that will be enacted by Arizona has the realistic potential to be abused by law enforcement.  I recall friends driving the NJ Turnpike about 12 years ago.  Because they fit 'the profile' of potential drug runners they were harassed.  It was not the point of being stopped for speeding (which they were), they were detained for more than 2 hours for background checks and vehicle search.  The point being, just because law enforcement was allowed, they took it to the extreme.  
My personal story was about the same in 91 after returning from the gulf war.  I was stopped and severely delayed for suspicious behavior.  It was because I was black and just because I had a new car headed to DC.  I was not given a ticket but 1 hour for vehicle search and background check.  My US Army ID showing I was an active duty officer meant nothing.  I fit the profile.
The potential exists for abuse.  Something else should be looked at to fix this potential.  
And to those who say, if you haven't done anything wrong or have nothing to hide -- you are OK....
that is not the point.... the point is why should legal citizens be subjected to this type of harassment.
That is not OK, IMHO
But something does need to be done...  Novel thought...  Why not go after the employers that hire these people or the big drug dealers (upper echelon) who contract these people to run drugs.....  Street dealers don't count.......

 

DEAD ON THE MONEY!!!

You hit the important points and hit them HARD.  

THE way to deal with the immigration problem is to cut off the REASON for the illegal immigration. People who hire illegals are just as guilty of bringing them across the border as the people who come across the border FOR those jobs are. THEY should be penalized.

Thing is; Aryranizona already HAS a law on the books to do just that; BUT it has NEVER BEEN FUNDED OR ENFORCED!!!

THAT should have been the LOGICAL and most efficient place to start... but they decided to target EVERYONE who isn't white instead with this BOGUS un-Constitutional law.

[uchighlander]

Scotts......you are correct. AZ does have a law on the books that makes its a crime  to hire an illegal however you are wrong to say it hasn't been enacted. It has been enacted.....that's why the feds don't like Sheriff Joe......because he enforces that law while the feds think it's to harsh so they are going after him.....Conyers and his ilk....good luck. GO VIKINGS!!!

[uchighlander]

We really have an illegal immigrant problem coming from our southern border.  AZ is victim of a massive crime wave.  Most of which is caused by illegal immigrants. Our economy is both suffering and prospering by this unfortunate fact.  We really need reform but the law that will be enacted by Arizona has the realistic potential to be abused by law enforcement.  I recall friends driving the NJ Turnpike about 12 years ago.  Because they fit 'the profile' of potential drug runners they were harassed.  It was not the point of being stopped for speeding (which they were), they were detained for more than 2 hours for background checks and vehicle search.  The point being, just because law enforcement was allowed, they took it to the extreme.  
My personal story was about the same in 91 after returning from the gulf war.  I was stopped and severely delayed for suspicious behavior.  It was because I was black and just because I had a new car headed to DC.  I was not given a ticket but 1 hour for vehicle search and background check.  My US Army ID showing I was an active duty officer meant nothing.  I fit the profile.
The potential exists for abuse.  Something else should be looked at to fix this potential.  
And to those who say, if you haven't done anything wrong or have nothing to hide -- you are OK....
that is not the point.... the point is why should legal citizens be subjected to this type of harassment.
That is not OK, IMHO
But something does need to be done...  Novel thought...  Why not go after the employers that hire these people or the big drug dealers (upper echelon) who contract these people to run drugs.....  Street dealers don't count.......

 

DEAD ON THE MONEY!!!

You hit the important points and hit them HARD. 

THE way to deal with the immigration roblem is to cut off theREASON for the illegal immigration. People who hire illegals are just as guilty of bringing them across the border as the people who come across the border FOR those jobs are. THEY should be penalized.

Thing is; Aryranizona already HAS a law on the books to do just that; BUT it has NEVER BEEN FUNDED OR ENFORCED!!!

THAT should have been the LOGICAL and most efficient place to start... but they decided to target EVERYONE who isn't white instead with this BOGUS un-Constitutional law.

Scotts....please tell me where in the law it targets only non whites.....please tell me....I'd really like to know. You have Obamitis....you are a liar too....just like the president. GO VIKINGS!!!

[oldsport]

We really have an illegal immigrant problem coming from our southern border.  AZ is victim of a massive crime wave.  Most of which is caused by illegal immigrants. Our economy is both suffering and prospering by this unfortunate fact.  We really need reform but the law that will be enacted by Arizona has the realistic potential to be abused by law enforcement.  I recall friends driving the NJ Turnpike about 12 years ago.  Because they fit 'the profile' of potential drug runners they were harassed.  It was not the point of being stopped for speeding (which they were), they were detained for more than 2 hours for background checks and vehicle search.  The point being, just because law enforcement was allowed, they took it to the extreme.  
My personal story was about the same in 91 after returning from the gulf war.  I was stopped and severely delayed for suspicious behavior.  It was because I was black and just because I had a new car headed to DC.  I was not given a ticket but 1 hour for vehicle search and background check.  My US Army ID showing I was an active duty officer meant nothing.  I fit the profile.
The potential exists for abuse.  Something else should be looked at to fix this potential.  
And to those who say, if you haven't done anything wrong or have nothing to hide -- you are OK....
that is not the point.... the point is why should legal citizens be subjected to this type of harassment.
That is not OK, IMHO
But something does need to be done...  Novel thought...  Why not go after the employers that hire these people or the big drug dealers (upper echelon) who contract these people to run drugs.....  Street dealers don't count.......

 

DEAD ON THE MONEY!!!

You hit the important points and hit them HARD. 

THE way to deal with the immigration roblem is to cut off theREASON for the illegal immigration. People who hire illegals are just as guilty of bringing them across the border as the people who come across the border FOR those jobs are. THEY should be penalized.

Thing is; Aryranizona already HAS a law on the books to do just that; BUT it has NEVER BEEN FUNDED OR ENFORCED!!!

THAT should have been the LOGICAL and most efficient place to start... but they decided to target EVERYONE who isn't white instead with this BOGUS un-Constitutional law.

Scotts....please tell me where in the law it targets only non whites.....please tell me....I'd really like to know. You have Obamitis....you are a liar too....just like the president. GO VIKINGS!!!