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Author Topic: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america  (Read 14831 times)

Offline Bison66

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Re: did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america? NO!
« Reply #105 on: November 16, 2014, 10:42:26 AM »
Tried to find the article, EB, without success.

Do you have it?
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« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 02:23:04 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline EB

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Re: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america
« Reply #106 on: November 16, 2014, 02:40:50 PM »
Here it is.  Confederate enthusiasts as I call them are still mad.

----------

Five myths about why the South seceded

By James W. Loewen February 26, 2011

One hundred fifty years after the Civil War began, we’re still fighting it — or at least fighting over its history. I’ve polled thousands of high school history teachers and spoken about the war to audiences across the country, and there is little agreement even about why the South seceded. Was it over slavery? States’ rights? Tariffs and taxes?

As the nation begins to commemorate the anniversaries of the war’s various battles — from Fort Sumter to Appomattox — let’s first dispense with some of the more prevalent myths about why it all began.

.....

5. The South couldn’t have made it long as a slave society.
Slavery was hardly on its last legs in 1860. That year, the South produced almost 75 percent of all U.S. exports. Slaves were worth more than all the manufacturing companies and railroads in the nation. No elite class in history has ever given up such an immense interest voluntarily. Moreover, Confederates eyed territorial expansion into Mexico and Cuba. Short of war, who would have stopped them — or forced them to abandon slavery?

To claim that slavery would have ended of its own accord by the mid-20th century is impossible to disprove but difficult to accept. In 1860, slavery was growing more entrenched in the South. Unpaid labor makes for big profits, and the Southern elite was growing ever richer. Freeing slaves was becoming more and more difficult for their owners, as was the position of free blacks in the United States, North as well as South. For the foreseeable future, slavery looked secure. Perhaps a civil war was required to end it.

As we commemorate the sesquicentennial of that war, let us take pride this time — as we did not during the centennial — that secession on slavery’s behalf failed.

.....

Offline CIAA-FAN

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Re: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america
« Reply #107 on: November 16, 2014, 02:42:52 PM »
THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN VISITED ON ONNIDAN AT LEAST TWICE BEFORE THAT I CAN SPECIFICALLY RECALL.  IN ANY EVENT LET ME OFFER THESE TWO BOOKS FOR YOUR EDIFICATION:

"FORGOTTEN CONFEDERATES" AN ANTHOLOGY ABOUT BLACK SOUTHERNERS, COMPILED AND EDITED BY CHARLES KELLY BARROW AND J.H. SEGARS & R.B.ROSENBURG; JOURNAL OF CONFEDERATE HISTORY SERIES, VOL. XIV, 1995.

"BLACK SOUTHERNERS IN GRAY" ESSAYS ON AFRO-AMERICANS IN CONFEDERATE ARMIES" BY ANDREW CHANDLER BATTAILE, ERVIN L. JORDAN, ARTHUR W. BERGERON, JR., RICHARD ROLLINS, THOMAS Y. CARTWRIGHT AND RUDOLPH YOUNG, EDITED BY RICHARD ROLLINS, 1994.

REMEMBER, THAT SLAVERY AND DEPRAVATIONS NOTWITHSTANDING, TO EVERY SLAVE ACTUALLY NOT BORN IN AFRICA, AMERICA WAS THEIR HOME, TOO.  THEIR ONLY KNOWN HOME.   A HOME WORTHY OF DEFENSE AGAINST THOSE "YANKEES". >:(
I'm an Army Civilian and former Soldier on the Army Team. I'm dedicated to my Army, Soldiers and Civilians. I will always support the mission. I provide stability and continuity during war and peace. I'll support and defend the Constitution and consider it an honor to serve our nation and my Army.

Offline Bison66

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Re: did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america? NO!
« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2014, 12:35:11 PM »
FAN,

Sorry, but it seems to me that the data and the personal histories we know about don't support your statement:

Quote
REMEMBER, THAT SLAVERY AND DEPRiVATIONS NOTWITHSTANDING, TO EVERY SLAVE ACTUALLY NOT BORN IN AFRICA, AMERICA WAS THEIR HOME, TOO.  THEIR ONLY KNOWN HOME.   A HOME WORTHY OF DEFENSE AGAINST THOSE "YANKEES".

Wish to explore the issue?

For starters...
We know that a huge percentage of the free Black male population joined those Yankees to fight those other "Americans."  

And we know
(y04's article re: Fort Monroe is a great example http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php/topic,51734.0.html)
that thousands upon thousands of enslaved Africans took tremendous risks in the face of great uncertainty to "desert" Confederate lands to fight with those Yanks, to seek freedom from enslavement and to enjoy a better life.

And finally we know that a very small percentage and very small actual number of enslaved Africans TOOK UP ARMS to fight the Yankees.
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« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 02:22:41 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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Re: did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america? NO!
« Reply #109 on: December 05, 2014, 09:24:27 PM »
FAN?

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« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 02:22:25 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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Re: ??DID slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america??
« Reply #110 on: January 11, 2015, 01:56:11 PM »
Certainly, the Confederates would have been proud of their "loyalists" who "FOUGHT" with them against the Yankee aggressors.

So, where are their photographs in uniform and ARMED!?!?!?
Or,....The newspaper articles citing their valor in action against the Yanks?

THANKS to EB, we have this to add to the discussion:  onnidan1.com/forum/index.php?topic=96217.0


https://jubiloemancipationcentury.wordpress.com/2014/12/19/black-boys-in-blue-a-gallery-of-young-african-americans-in-union-military-dress/

Altho this set of photos focuses on the youngsters who were flag bearers and drummers, we've seen several photos of Black Union soldiers and we've read where a HUGE percentage of free Africans/Blacks in the North served in the Union Army as compared to the piddling number of Blacks who served AS SOLDIERS in the forces of the slaving CSA.

And we have loads of documentation - letters, newspaper articles, photos - of African/Black Union SOLDIERS, not just personal servants or impressed and unpaid labor.
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Offline Bison66

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FAN,

Sorry, but it seems to me that the data and the personal histories we know about don't support your statement:

Quote
REMEMBER, THAT SLAVERY AND DEPRiVATIONS NOTWITHSTANDING, TO EVERY SLAVE ACTUALLY NOT BORN IN AFRICA, AMERICA WAS THEIR HOME, TOO.  THEIR ONLY KNOWN HOME.   A HOME WORTHY OF DEFENSE AGAINST THOSE "YANKEES".

Wish to explore the issue?

For starters...
We know that a huge percentage of the free Black male population joined those Yankees to fight those other "Americans."  

And we know
(y04's article re: Fort Monroe is a great example http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php/topic,51734.0.html)
that thousands upon thousands of enslaved Africans took tremendous risks in the face of great uncertainty to "desert" Confederate lands to fight with those Yanks, to seek freedom from enslavement and to enjoy a better life.

And finally we know that a very small percentage and very small actual number of enslaved Africans TOOK UP ARMS to fight the Yankees.
O0

FAN?

O0
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 02:22:06 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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Check out the following reference:

James G. Hollingsworth, Jr. Black Confederate Pensioners After the Civil War, May 2008. Mississippi History Now online.

He lists the reasons for blacks serving the Confederacy.

ncsiacfan,

Thanks for that reference.  Made for very interesting reading.

Here's the link to the article:  http://mshistorynow.mdah.state.ms.us/articles/289/black-confederate-pensioners-after-the-civil-war

I don't see where he lists the reasons, but does mention that the Blacks for whom there are good records were NON-combatants:

Quote
Black noncombatants

The proportion of black pensioners among different work categories varied from state to state. The pension statutes in Mississippi, South Carolina, and Tennessee, for example, were intended primarily to reward the service of servants or cooks whose masters were assigned to units in the Confederate army. Despite state variations, an overall pattern of service among the black pensioners is clear. On average, 85 percent of the black pensioners served as servants or cooks with the Confederate army.

These are the types of support he says Blacks gave to the Confederates:

Quote
Black southerners contributed to the Confederate war effort in four ways. First, as slaves, they provided the labor that fueled the Southern cotton economy and maintained the production of foodstuffs and other commodities. Second, slaves were rented to or drafted by the Confederate government to work on specific projects related to the South’s military infrastructure, such as bridges and railroads. Third, black southerners were part of the work force in the Confederacy’s war-related foundries, munitions factories, and mines. In addition, they transported food and war material to the front by wagon, and provided services to wounded and sick soldiers in Confederate hospitals. Last, a large number of black southerners went to war with the Confederate army as noncombatants, serving as personal servants, company cooks, and grooms.

O0
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 02:21:47 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline 81alphaeagle

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Check out the following reference:

James G. Hollingsworth, Jr. Black Confederate Pensioners After the Civil War, May 2008. Mississippi History Now online.

He lists the reasons for blacks serving the Confederacy.

ncsiacfan,

Thanks for that reference.  Made for very interesting reading.

Here's the link to the article:  http://mshistorynow.mdah.state.ms.us/articles/289/black-confederate-pensioners-after-the-civil-war

I don't see where he lists the reasons, but does mention that the Blacks for whom there are good records were NON-combatants:

Quote
Black noncombatants

The proportion of black pensioners among different work categories varied from state to state. The pension statutes in Mississippi, South Carolina, and Tennessee, for example, were intended primarily to reward the service of servants or cooks whose masters were assigned to units in the Confederate army. Despite state variations, an overall pattern of service among the black pensioners is clear. On average, 85 percent of the black pensioners served as servants or cooks with the Confederate army.

These are the types of support he says Blacks gave to the Confederates:

Quote
Black southerners contributed to the Confederate war effort in four ways. First, as slaves, they provided the labor that fueled the Southern cotton economy and maintained the production of foodstuffs and other commodities. Second, slaves were rented to or drafted by the Confederate government to work on specific projects related to the South’s military infrastructure, such as bridges and railroads. Third, black southerners were part of the work force in the Confederacy’s war-related foundries, munitions factories, and mines. In addition, they transported food and war material to the front by wagon, and provided services to wounded and sick soldiers in Confederate hospitals. Last, a large number of black southerners went to war with the Confederate army as noncombatants, serving as personal servants, company cooks, and grooms.

O0

SO still getting his pension.

Offline Bison66

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Indeed, 81alphaeagle, indeed!

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« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 02:21:19 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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A glimpse via poetry by the GREAT Paul Lawrence Dunbar into the personal and emotional aspects of what it meant to family members for their relatives to go to war.

Quote
Below, Mitchel Capel recites “W’en Dey ‘listed Colored Soldiers”.  A poem by Paul Laurence Dunbar.  His father, Joshua Dunbar, was a member of the United States Colored Troops.
SEE VIDEO HERE:


NICE!!!
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« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 02:21:01 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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U.S. Colored Troops 1st Heavy Artillery Regiment, Knoxville Tennessee. I like to think that the men I studied are pictured. (Library of Congress photograph)

As I have said before, IF the Confederates had a significant number of Blacks "fighting" with/for they would have been proud of them and we would have photos like this one.

The most I have personally seen is the photo of the Louisiana Home Guard - about six of 'em - standing around informally with (presumably unloaded) rifles.  Others' research indicates that in regard to the Home Guard:
1) they saw no action,
2) were not issued ammunition,
3) were limited to parades and
4) switched sides to support the Union when US Army troops arrived.

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« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 03:23:27 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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Re: DID slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america
« Reply #117 on: June 18, 2015, 12:28:42 AM »
This is the result of a search I did to find out about curfews for Blacks during the Civil War.

Try it and read through to at least the section on the Louisiana Home Guards to the top of p. 57.
https://books.google.com.pa/books?id=L6BURiBt340C&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=montgomery,+alabama+curfews+for+slaves+1864&source=bl&ots=Zjh7Pwl_5n&sig=H_ndME0qV_gghwm8Y2LQy6DdCnU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PTyCVaCVNtGUsQS5vIPQAg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=montgomery%2C%20alabama%20curfews%20for%20slaves%201864&f=false

This author gives well-resourced reports of support by a few southern slaves and Free Blacks for the Confederate cause.  As he continues, he reveals the nuances that remind us again that very little is cut and dried.
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« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 03:22:59 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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Re: DID slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america
« Reply #118 on: July 04, 2015, 04:03:37 PM »
Interesting....

Quote
Battles Fought in Alabama Involving US Colored Troops

Boyd's Station, Alabama  March 18, 1865, 101st US Colored Infantry
Decatur Alabama  October 29-29th 1864  14th US Colored Infantry
Decatur Alabama  December 27-28th 1864  17th US Colored Infantry
Ft. Blakely Ala.  Mar. 31-Apr 9th, 1865  47th, 48th, 50th, 51st, 68th, 73rd, 76th, 82nd, 86th  US Colored Infantries
Ft. Gaines Alabama  August 2-8th 1864, 96th US Colored Infantry
Madison Station, Alabama  November 26th 1864  101st US Colored Infantry
Mud Creek, Alabama  January 5, 18th 1865,  106th US Colored Infantry
Pine Barren Creek Alabama  December 17-19th 1864  82nd US Colored Infantry
Scottsboro, Alabama January 8, 1865  101st US Colored Infantry
Spanish Fort, Alabama  March 27-April 8, 1865 68th US Colored Infantry
Sulphur Branch Trestle, Alabama   September 25, 1864, 111th US Colored Infantries.

May those who study Alabama Civil War history, include the stories of the US Colored Troops that fought and died upon Alabama soil.

http://usctchronicle.blogspot.com/2011/05/battlegrounds-of-us-colored-troops.html

Read the comment as well from a descendant of one of the soldiers.

I also picked up this tidbit:

One designation for an early unit was A.D. standing for "African Descent."
Quote
Holland’s story begins, if his memory as an elderly man is accurate, on Aug. 31, 1831, in Haydensville, Todd County, Ky., the same county that gave birth to Confederate President Jefferson Davis 23 years earlier. By the time the Union Army rolled into middle Tennessee, Holland was working as a farm laborer on land owned by Benjamin Harlan near the town of Cowan, Tenn. Harlan probably had a small spread and owned just a few slaves. Holland says his proper name was Harlan, too, but that he was called Holland in the Army.

Holland’s “official” life picks up when he enlists March 1, 1864, at Pulaski, Tenn. Standing 5-foot-3-inches and weighing 140 pounds, he was mustered into the 3rd Alabama Infantry AD (African descent) at Sulphur Branch Trestle, Ala., and promoted to sergeant in Company I on April 15.

Holland’s unit was reorganized and renamed the 111th United States Colored Infantry on June 25, 1864, and was assigned to garrison duty in Pulaski until September, when it was sent into northern Alabama.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/7/black-soldier-rides-with-devil-forrest/?page=all

O0
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 03:22:30 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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Black family entering Union lines as they escape slavery.


http://www.archives.gov/research/military/civil-war/photos/images/civil-war-012.jpg

This is the overwhelmingly predominant behavior of African/Black people under the rule of the Confederacy.

Also, this is an interesting photo, including a Brother.


http://www.archives.gov/research/military/civil-war/photos/images/civil-war-015.jpg

Allan Pinkerton, yes - that Pinkerton, is pictured with his staff.  He was head of Union intelligence and ran a network of spies for Lincoln.

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