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Author Topic: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america  (Read 15702 times)

Offline Cholly

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^^^Describes oldslave/spot/spurt/snot/sh!t to a "T".  :nod:

wh?y is  smarter than he PRETENDS to be... but not NEARLY as smart as he thinks he is.

He actually KNOWS better, but is morally corrupt and therefore DELIBERATELY pushing this garbage on the rest of us... maybe to make himself FEEL better.

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of modern day house slaves? :shrug:


^^^SPEAKS FOR ITSELF!!!

Offline Bison66

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Re: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2012, 12:13:38 AM »
Came across an interesting and unknown (to me) Black organization called the Loyal League that had prepared in advance for the Civil War as an opportunity to free enslaved Africans in America.

Video:  http://www.civilwar.org/video/hari-jones-the-loyal-league.html
 
Print:  http://afroamcivilwar.org/component/content/8.html?task=view
Be sure to also scroll down for info on spies/scouts.

Quote
The Legal League anticipated the Civil War and had spies, guides and scouts in place when the war began.  However, when the war began League objectives were not being served, the war was not a war “to overthrow or interfere with slavery” and men of African (descent) were prohibited from joining the federal army. 

Allan Pinkerton, the head of Union intelligence in the first year of the war observed: “Although as yet prevented from taking up arms in defense of their rights, these colored men had banded themselves together to further the cause of freedom, to succor the escaping slave, and to furnish information to loyal commanders of the movements of the rebels, as far as they could be ascertained.”   When this situation changed on January 1, 1863, Union fortunes changed.
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Offline EB

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Re: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2012, 03:24:10 AM »
I'll add a couple of thoughts especially since Sept. 17, 2012 was the 150th anniversary of the Battle of Antietam.  After the battle Lincoln prepared the emancipation and Black men were recruited for the Union Army and Navy (of which Louis Lattimer was a veteran).

I think that B66 hit it on the head about Stockholm syndrome.  Some probably felt some sentimental attachment though despite being slaves.  As I believe it was the case with Spike Lee's ancestor, a slave, they had to work for the Confederacy because they were slaves.  (Lee's ancestor made parts for the Confederacy.)  The slaves did not have a lot of choices.

Slavery was a powerful economic institution.  Not only did southern plantation owners wanted to keep the institution going but some northern industrialists did too.  The cotton picked in the south was made into fabric in the north.  More than a few rich northerners benefited from southern slavery.

Had Lee won at Antietam, France and England might have helped the south.  In some cases Europeans did help the south.  Though France and England ended slavery in their territories during the 1830s, they also benefited from southern slavery similar to the way that northern interests did.  BTW the French and British did not end slavery because of their enlightenment.  There were revolts in their territories too.

Let's not forget that there was the Fugitive Slave Act.  Slave catchers were across the north.  New York had as many as any other state.

After the war came a practice that historians said were worse than slavery.  It was the convict lease system.  The convict lease system helped to build some businesses of which some are in existence today, and debt peonage existed well into the 20th century.  Year ago the History Channel did a program on the convict lease system, and this year PBS did a special this year.  Some books have been written on the subject.

Offline CU1994

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Re: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2012, 10:42:00 AM »
Unfortunately, the article has been removed but I have read similar article and heard similar arguments in the past. The answer is rather simple. People have many different motivations for what they do. First, there was an article or a book written on black participation in the Confederacy. While there were people of African descent who participated on the side of the  Confederacy, those numbers have been exaggerated for political gain. We know that some people will identify with their captors and will fight to keep themselves oppressed. W.E.B. pointed this out eloquently in the Souls of Black Folk. Why would other slaves thwart the freedom efforts of Gabriel Prosser and Denmark Vessey? Why would some Native Americans fight with the American Government when the government was proven to be untrustworthy and in the process of committing genocide against a whole culture of people? Some people will always fight against their own interests. Mental slavery is powerful and last a hello of lot longer than physical slavery. Many of us, even many of us who think we have arrived are still mentally enslaved and brainwashed. Just think of how many black folk are still color struck. you still have clown a**  black men that only date light skin women. People of African descent looking like clowns by dying their hair blond and wearing blue contacts. Some people will do what ever they can to identify with the dominant culture and if that means fighting against the interest of your people, then so be it.

Offline EPJr

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Re: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2012, 12:01:33 PM »
living in Richmond we are forced to deal with the Civil War on a daily basis.

Three years ago we delved into the subject in February. The last Sunday in February we devote to black military accomphishments. The head of the committee tackled the subject and even invited some Sons of the Confederacy to participate.

Instead of ignoring the sacrifice of fellow Virginians we have pushed to have them acknowledged in the Museum of The Confederacy here in Richmond

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Offline Bison66

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Re: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2012, 01:35:28 AM »
EB said:
Quote
I think that B66 hit it on the head about Stockholm syndrome.  Some probably felt some sentimental attachment though despite being slaves.

I almost forgot about that point, EB.

I am inclined to think that the SS played a major part in the psyches of many Blacks up until the 1950's and 1960's when a few took courageous steps to secure their and others' rights and.......survived.

The "spell" was broken and then when people like Malcolm X, James Foreman, Kwame Ture (Stokely) spoke fearlessly in front of and to white people, the "spell" was smashed.

It's only a "pet theory" without science to support it, but having lived through that period, I think it has merit.  I am old enough to remember when many Black people would unconsciously go into a whisper - mid sentence - when they used the word "white" in reference to people....in an all-Black setting!!!  I may have previously mentioned that a co-worker of mine, several years my senior, from the South and a retired Senior (or Chief?) Master Sergeant, was still doing that into the late 1990's.  "Lifelong" habits are hard to break.
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Offline Bison66

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/heritagefoundationfranklin/4768549087/

This photo of Confederate Veterans shows two Black "veterans" - segregated in the bottom, of course, right, of course, corner.

Their duties are also listed:  Porter.

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Offline Dog in Me

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Malcolm once said and I paraphrase

The salve master's house was on fire. The field negro said let it burn, lets pour  kerosene on it, let it burn. The house negro says massa we's house on fire. Let me help you put it out.

Just my way of saying some of those house negros probably fought willingly for the south.

Offline y04185

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Malcolm once said and I paraphrase

The salve master's house was on fire. The field negro said let it burn, lets pour  kerosene on it, let it burn. The house negro says massa we's house on fire. Let me help you put it out.

Just my way of saying some of those house negros probably fought willingly for the south.

You really should read your history instead of listening to others.
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Offline Ken

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Is not reading history a form of listening to otherS?? HIS-STORY.

Offline Dog in Me

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You are to be congratulated for ALL your time being a member of Onnidan you have never quoted anyone in your posts.

Offline Bison66

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 :snicker

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Offline MyTeVyKn

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Just thought I would chime in to this post as I find it very interesting to me.  Lately, I have been reading and catching up on the different nuances of black folk from the time of slavery, through the reconstruction period, "Jim Crow", and the Civil Rights movement.  I have included military service as part of these readings especially, especially the Civil War.  I have read books about blacks who fought for the Confederacy and blacks who fought for the Union.  There were several instances as to why they fought.  BUT, I found that the one or two things that they ALL had in common whether enslaved or free was that they both fought for RESPECT (to be looked upon as an equal and FREEDOM not just in the physical sense but in a more wholisitc sense.
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Offline Ken

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How could blacks fight for the confederate states when they were not allowed to have weapons??-- they served as porters, etc. but what do you think would have happened had the confederates armed blacks???

Offline EL JAY

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I am curious to know if any black confederate units fought directly against a black union unit? 
Heeeeeeey Tuskegee......

 

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