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Author Topic: why did slaves and free blacks fight for the confederate states of america  (Read 14080 times)

Offline NovaSkegee

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you guys need provide some proof. 

if what you claim is true why did blacks show up and were welcomed at confederate veterans reunions.

it must be hard to realize what you were taught and believed about the civil war was 100 percent wrong.

January 20, 2009

Blacks That Fought For the South: Ignorant, Scared, Or Forced?



Mario Salas

One of the biggest lies out there, and being propagandized by a group that is calls itself the Sons of Confederate Veterans, is the falsehood that Blacks fought to protect their slave owning masters. We can suppose that there were some that did, just like there were some who sold out Martin Luther King and were paid snitches against the Black Panthers and SNCC. But the overwhelming majority of African- Americans would have never been trusted with a gun given to them by a racist, slave-owning Confederate government.

The mental propaganda that Blacks were forced to endure probably produced some misguided and ignorant people that thought they could believe the lies of the southern gentlemen slave owning class.We can certainly assume that some Blacks fought for the slave owners because they were forced to do so, and their families threatened with death by the Southern murderous slave class. It would also stand to reason that free Blacks might have been tempted to fight for the Confederacy since their status as freemen would be jeopardized if they didn’t.

There were all sorts of ways to intimidate Blacks in those days including rape, hanging, beatings, and sheer terror. All of these methods were used by the brutal and murderous Confederate States to suppress slave rebellions and Black insurrections. Why would one argue about the number of Blacks that fought for the Confederacy, if any, unless one was trying to justify slavery and racism?

We can find instances of Native Americans who fought with U.S. soldiers intent on committing genocide against another Native American tribe, but that does not mean they weren’t duped. In fact, many Native Americans were promised all sorts of “forked tongued” gifts if they helped destroy other tribes. Some fell for it!

The same can be argued that there must have been some Uncle Toms that wanted to protect their slave masters, and some who were forced or given false promises. We can be sure of one thing, the Southern Heritage of racism, slavery, and murder was coupled with a campaign of sophisticated lies designed to fool people into supporting one of the most evil regimes in history—the Confederate States of America. There is no such thing as “Southern Heritage” outside of the realm of slavery, hatred, murder, and bigotry.

The South has already begun its journey toward self-inspection, with the realization that the Southern way of life was ruined and tainted by slavery. We always have to look with a weary-eye at anyone who refuses to accept the fact that “Southern Heritage” can never be divorced from the horrors of genocide and murder against its Black citizens. Anyone talking about “Southern heritage” outside of its racist history is a Klansman, a fool, or just plain ignorant.

The great majority of Blacks hated the southern heritage of slavery and racism. Some of them were smart enough to bide their time by telling their slave masters that they supported them over the Union forces, while all the while plotting for the defeat of the rebels. Some even served as spies and provided valuable information as to where the rebels were hiding and had hidden their weapons.

Many slaves escaped the racist South, deserting their forced allegiance to the Confederacy, and joined the Union armies to help with crushing blows that finally ended the institution of slavery. Many free Blacks, fearful of the laws that the southern states were enacting after John Brown’s raid, offered their services to the Confederacy by building defensive works and constructing vessels. But, they only did so in order to protect their freedom or the hope of it.

There are pictures of Blacks in Confederate unions, but this proves nothing as it was a common practice to use Blacks as propaganda to make people in the North think that Blacks loved being slaves. We cannot believe pictures from that era nor newspaper accounts claiming that Blacks supported the South for the simple reason that the slave owners owned the newspapers, and had the ability to force Blacks to say whatever they wanted under penalty of death.

Some pictures appear to be forged as they were of Black Mexicans. These were not slaves at all. Blacks were forced into service and made to do the work of the Confederate States of America. This is something that should never be celebrated and is a disgrace to raise it to the level of a civilized society.

Any people that are forced to take up arms in defense of their slavers or oppressors can never be equated with justice or heroism. We must realize that the Confederate States of America was an ugly blot upon history and should never be celebrated. That organization should be looked at in much the same way we view the despicable Nazi regime of Adolph Hitler. Everyone should be careful when surfing the web for there are dozens of racist Web sites that repeat the lies that the slave owners invented hundreds of years ago.

Offline y04185

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nova, can you provide a link or is that just your opinion.
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Offline Jaimac

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Don't you see the author listed with the article Nova posted?  

Although he should have posted the link, the article is legitimate.
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
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Offline y04185

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Don't you see the author listed with the article Nova posted?  

Although he should have posted the link, the article is legitimate.

how do we know that.
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Offline Bison66

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y04,

I am not clear on what you seek to imply by stating that "slavery was out of the door."  I am aware of the retrospective economic analyses that say that slavery was uneconomical, but I doubt that was realized at the time of the Civil War.  But I'd be open to being persuaded otherwise by documents of contemporaneous discussion amongst the planter class.  From what I have read, slavers, the human predators and human trafficers that they were, primarily freed slaves when all other options were gone.

In what context are you speaking when you say, " the slave was getting off the plantation.  he had a choice.  go to the union side for ten dollars a month or go to the confederate side for thirty dollars a month." ??

"Choice"?  As in "freedom" of movement?  You speak as if slaves were already freed under the CSA.

 O0

I don't think so.

 O0

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Offline scstatealum

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I did read it....and the reason why southern blacks fought for the confederacy is more likely due to either religion, fear or both.

they fought for the conferderacy because they were told that if they did, and won, that they would be freed....which of course, was a lie....but whatever...



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Offline y04185

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bison, the slaves knew what they would make per month.  they knew what they would bring on the slave market.  if a slave wanted to buy his freedom he could do it much quicker fighting on the csa side.  slaves weren't as ignorant as some historians would make them out to be.

by the time the civil war started the plantation owners had already read the writing on the wall.  in the book the negro in virginia the economics of virginia and the south is clearly explained.  

'87, you have no proof they would not be set free if the south had won.
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Offline Bison66

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bison, the slaves knew what they would make per month.  they knew what they would bring on the slave market.  if a slave wanted to buy his freedom he could do it much quicker fighting on the csa side.  slaves weren't as ignorant as some historians would make them out to be.

That's all good, but my questions remain unanswered.  Knowledge of the enslaved is not the question; it is their ability to act on that info.

"In what context are you speaking when you say, " the slave was getting off the plantation.  he had a choice.  go to the union side for ten dollars a month or go to the confederate side for thirty dollars a month." ??

"Choice"?  As in "freedom" of movement?  You speak as if slaves were already freed under the CSA."

More concretely, let me say that the "choice" you mention is between:
1) running away (risking severe punishment, including maiming, and leaving children and loved ones), making way through somewhat unknown territory during war time with troops on patrol, sneaking through Confederate Army lines to get to Union lines without knowing for sure they could get in the Army to be paid (many Blacks were not accepted).
vs.
2) raising their hands to volunteer for the CSA AND being paid with the knowledge, since you say they were so well informed*, that if the South lost, they would be freed anyway and, if the South won, they'd expect some "return on their investment."

But my larger point is that enslaved Africans did not have freedom of movement to exercise what might have been their "true" choice.

Answers?
 O0

*I will, however, remind you that most of the enslaved in Texas did not learn of Emancipation until much later.

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Offline Bison66

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by the time the civil war started the plantation owners had already read the writing on the wall.  in the book the negro in virginia the economics of virginia and the south is clearly explained.

y04,

Don't have that book in my library, but since it was published in 1940 that is not enough for me to conclude, as you have, that plantation owners in the 1860s "had already read the writing on the wall."  I assume it contains some of the planters' contemporary thinking about abolishing slavery.  Is that correct?  I must say that the self-interested economic thinking of human traffickers, rapists and terrorists was never much of an interest of mine.

 O0
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Offline Bison66

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y04,

I was hoping to hear back from you on the "choice" issue, but....moving on.

In reply to my:
Quote
... it is my opinion that AMONG the reasons Blacks fought for the South is the classic Stockholm Syndrome in which kidnapped, hostaged people begin to identify with their captors and begin to sympathize with them and support their interests in the sometimes misguided idea that their captives' interests are actually the same as theirs.  Studies show that this begins after only hours or days and was observed among inmates in the Nazi concentration camps as well.

After having been stripped of name, culture, family, heritage, etc for generations and generations and having suffered from constant fear and terror, it is to be expected that some, or even many, enslaved Africans would eventually come to identify with their enslavers.  Malcom X spoke about the "Massa, we sick?" kind of thinking.  Some of that was designed to curry favor and some, no doubt, was sincere.

You replied, in part:

....i don't think the stockholm syndrome was that important.....  
......you might have a point with the stockholm syndrome when it comes to the free blacks in the south.  

I wonder if you might explain how, IYO, a freed Black person in the CSA, who was somewhat less under the thumb of white folks, might be more affected by the Stockholm Syndrome than a person who, moreso, lived or died at the whim of his or her so-called owners.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=24038
and

Quote
What is Stockholm Syndrome?
Stockholm Syndrome is a mental and emotional coping mechanism that seems to be inherent in the human psyche.  It is a way of forgetting, or dissociating from, one's own pain and feelings of terror, anger, and helplessness  by focusing on the face, voice, odor, mannerisms, etc. of the abuser or captor.   Stockholm Syndrome is subconsciously used by many victims to deal with dangerous individuals by mimicking them unconsciously, thereby enlisting their protection and kindness.   By expressing sympathy towards the aggressor,  the victim can sometimes avoid harm or death at the aggressor's hands.
http://naffoundation.org/Stockholm_Syndrome.htm

Although there is still dispute about the Syndrome, some medical experts believe it is a form of Defense Mechanism, which is an important aspect of Freudian theory:
"In Freudian psychoanalytic theory, defence mechanisms or defense mechanisms (see -ce/-se) are psychological strategies brought into play by various entities to cope with reality and to maintain self-image. Healthy persons normally use different defences throughout life. An ego defence mechanism becomes pathological only when its persistent use leads to maladaptive behavior such that the physical and/or mental health of the individual is adversely affected. The purpose of the Ego Defence Mechanisms is to protect the mind/self/ego from anxiety, social sanctions or to provide a refuge from a situation with which one cannot currently cope."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanisms

This next, rather long piece is not about enslaved Africans(rather it describes the author's take on current day Americans as slaves of their govt), but I believe the analysis certainly applies much more to the topic of this discusssion than the author's.  (I have deleted some of the author's present day commentary, which you can see at the link.)

Quote
Most common of all, and the reason I bring this matter to your attention, is: 'the common fear to escape the captivity of slavery' where people refuse to accept actions, experience and reason that shows 'their' government is their enemy. The syndrome could, more correctly, be called the "Slave Loyalty Syndrome".

It is now well documented that people, when captured by forces that they feel helpless to resist, seek to appease these forces and work with them. It is a basic survival instinct. If we are to understand why people, in general, appear blind to the reality of their enslavement after generations of subjugation to what we may call 'political forces', we need to admit of this primitive feature of our nature...................

At present we are not facing our problem! We complain, we protest, we become agitated, but we do not trust ourselves to understand our situation and escape....

...Over the long period of human slavery, slaves have had many opportunities to escape but have rarely taken them. Perhaps the only time they really try to escape is when the master makes life so unbearable that they feel they would be better off dead; in this situation an attempt to escape may seem a better alternative than suicide. The forces that bind us are many, they are not weak and should not be underestimated.
http://www.themindweb.com/humanity/stockholm.asp

I maintain that AMONG the reasons Blacks fought for the CSA is a version of the Stockholm Syndrome.

Any comment, anyone?
 O0



« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 02:29:07 PM by Bison66 »
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Offline Bison66

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Perhaps after all of this time, y04 would like to respond to the issues I raised almost 3 years ago.

Meanwhile I came across an interesting summary of Black soldiers fighting on the Union side.

Lengthy but excellent:

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/civil_war_series/2/sec18.htm
O0
787
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 11:04:15 AM by Bison66 »
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Offline Que82

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 :offtopic:

why did do Onnidan slaves and free blacks fight for  belong to the confederate states of america republican party. :shrug:
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Offline Cholly

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^^^YOU took the words right offa my fingertips!!!  >:(

Actually, I was going to post some ascerbic comment about wh?y APPEARING to defend 19th Century race traitors... then I remembered that last week I posted pictures of black confederate soldiers in other threads and inferred that they represented Onnidan coonservatives.

I guess wh?y took those pictures to heart. ::)


^^^SPEAKS FOR ITSELF!!!

Offline Jay_Thomas

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 :tongue2:

Offline Thinkingaboutit

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Cholly, there are some challenged individuals on this board.  Wh 'y', I don't know. Maybe  Wh 'y' some persons missed the chance to fight for the continuance of their complete subjugation and dominion that chattel system had upon  people.  Ignorance is blissful.  There are psychological  infantilizing processes the take place in conditions when persons are under complete physical and social control they cooperate with the powers subjecting that person to complete dominion. It was so with the Jews during encampment during the second world war and currently with some Guantanamo visitors.

 

 

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