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Author Topic: For Those Who Agree re Withdrawal from Af'stan, But Criticize the "Scramble"....  (Read 1184 times)

Offline Cats4ever

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Plus Bagram is the worst place you want to be . Kabul is a better location and the distance from Kabul Airport to Bagram is farther away the dulles Airport in Virginia to Reagan Airport in DC. and due to the topography around Bagram you would need airborne troops for any evacuation from Bagram.
Thanks Ken, it is easy to armchair QB a situation because you don’t have all the facts, Yes, I heard what you stated from a very reliable sources about the base. It isn’t easy to get too. It would have been worse for people to get their.
Your treatment of others give them control of your soul
Matthew 5:25-26

Offline Cats4ever

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Most Americans lived in the green Zone and had very little contact with people and culture 

I would say this is false. There were shops inside the green zone ran by the Iraqis.  Many of the interpreters stayed inside the hospital, when we treated Iraqi soldiers.

Do I think some Afghans have good intentions, some but not all.  They're some of the most cunning individuals you'll every meet.
You put your finger on the problem in that some people want us there. How many didn’t want us there?🤔 This the issue when you are war with part of a country. You can’t tell who is your enemy. How many spies were in their Army?  This is what happened inNam and Korea.

The only thing the USA should have done was remove all those that didn’t want to be there.  Also, they may have came out better trading the women to fight because they have a better reason to fight. I will take the women over the men because I know they would win.
Your treatment of others give them control of your soul
Matthew 5:25-26

Offline Neymar

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Plus Bagram is the worst place you want to be . Kabul is a better location and the distance from Kabul Airport to Bagram is farther away the dulles Airport in Virginia to Reagan Airport in DC. and due to the topography around Bagram you would need airborne troops for any evacuation from Bagram.

Bagram is closer to Islamabad where the processing should have happened.


To Kill a Mockingbird

Offline Cats4ever

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Plus Bagram is the worst place you want to be . Kabul is a better location and the distance from Kabul Airport to Bagram is farther away the dulles Airport in Virginia to Reagan Airport in DC. and due to the topography around Bagram you would need airborne troops for any evacuation from Bagram.

Bagram is closer to Islamabad where the processing should have happened.
I am going to repeat myself. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too.
Your treatment of others give them control of your soul
Matthew 5:25-26

Offline Neymar

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Plus Bagram is the worst place you want to be . Kabul is a better location and the distance from Kabul Airport to Bagram is farther away the dulles Airport in Virginia to Reagan Airport in DC. and due to the topography around Bagram you would need airborne troops for any evacuation from Bagram.

Bagram is closer to Islamabad where the processing should have happened.
I am going to repeat myself. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too.

Well we dont want people to be coming on their own according. We want them in the green zone in Kabul, and then we ship to them to bagram before shipping them to Islamabad.


To Kill a Mockingbird

Offline Bison66

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Plus Bagram is the worst place you want to be . Kabul is a better location and the distance from Kabul Airport to Bagram is farther away the dulles Airport in Virginia to Reagan Airport in DC. and due to the topography around Bagram you would need airborne troops for any evacuation from Bagram.

Bagram is closer to Islamabad where the processing should have happened.
I am going to repeat myself. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too. It is more dangerous for people to get too.

Well we dont want people to be coming on their own according. We want them in the green zone in Kabul, and then we ship to them to bagram before shipping them to Islamabad.

So, Bro, we're right back where we started:

Massive crowds of panicked Afghans at the Kabul airport trying - under your scenario - to get transported to Bagram.....

NONE of your responses addressed the critical point of my question/challenge  :shrug: :

An alternative plan that:
would not have caused "panic" among the Afghans who worked with US and allied forces. 

O0
« Last Edit: September 04, 2021, 07:25:00 PM by Bison66 »

Offline Ken

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Cats fever   a retired general said it would take an airborne drop equivalent TO D-DAY if we had chosen Bagram.

Offline Bison66

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Cats fever   a retired general said it would take an airborne drop equivalent TO D-DAY if we had chosen Bagram.

Whoa!!!

I guess that's part of my answer to how many troops it would take to secure that 65km route...

O0

Offline Cats4ever

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Cats fever   a retired general said it would take an airborne drop equivalent TO D-DAY if we had chosen Bagram.

Thank you Sir, you confirmed what I was told.  This is the issue with Monday Morning Quarterbacks.  They don’t have all the information about the problem. Knowing the military like  I think I do, they looked at every possible option. They took the best one.  People need to understand it could have been worse. What happened as the best they could have hoped for. 
Your treatment of others give them control of your soul
Matthew 5:25-26

Offline blue72

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Cats4ever, as I stated earlier:
-  short notice evacuations shortens the planning process/cycle. Nothing we plann for and put on paper, ever goes that way when we finally go to execute.
- So far all the I would have did this, thursday morning quarterbacks crowd,,, this was executed the best it could have been, with that short notice executed "GO"

- Cats4ever, I call them thursday morning quaterbacks, "clueless" :no:
MMH(68-72)(Tenn State Uni-"Think,Work,Serve")

Offline Bison66

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Olds..t, y04, Neymar...??

The proposal did NOT address the issue of avoiding the panic.

Or do you think it did...?

If so, please explain how.


O0

Offline Neymar

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My plan addressed panic because we would have begun shipping them out as soon as the exit was announced. None of this save until the last moment stuff.


To Kill a Mockingbird

Offline Bison66

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My plan addressed panic because we would have begun shipping them out as soon as the exit was announced. None of this save until the last moment stuff.

That assumes that beginning the evacuation would not have triggered the panic.

That's VERY far from a safe assumption.

Biden's plan was not "last minute," either - until the Afghan army laid down its arms, and the Afghan govt collapsed.  Almost EVERY analyst believed that weeks or months were still on the clock for an orderly evacuation.

However, as Bison4Life said, human behavior is not always predictable.

I'd like to sincerely thank ALL of the veterans who contributed their comments to this thread.

Y'all made some really good points, with the exception of the usual suspects who couldn't think their way out of a men's room if "Exit" wasn't over the door.


O0

Offline Neymar

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I think they lied about thinking the ANA would hold up weeks or months.

Everybody I know who spent any time over there told me that the people they trained were indifferent, at best, and inept thoroughly. It isnt just what people told me either, but the general knowledge available was that these guys were incompetent and could not win any battles without extensive US help






To Kill a Mockingbird

Offline Bison66

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I think they lied about thinking the ANA would hold up weeks or months.

Everybody I know who spent any time over there told me that the people they trained were indifferent, at best, and inept thoroughly. It isnt just what people told me either, but the general knowledge available was that these guys were incompetent and could not win any battles without extensive US help.


I understand, Neymar, but even if that is true, your scenario does nothing to obviate the "last minute" issue you raised.

Whenever US troops would start evacuating and withdrawing, the Taliban would begin their advance.  At that point, the collapse would begin, the Afghan president would run off with the money, and there is NO reason to think (Is there?) it would not have cascaded just a rapidly no matter what plan the US followed.

Can we agree on that point?

O0

 

 

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