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Author Topic: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC  (Read 7064 times)

Offline EagleWing

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.

True!
I have to give A&T some credit on their campus looking like a P5 school... even I hate doing so. To me they are what an HBCU DI campus should look like. I don't see that with any CIAA school. WSSU is the closest and we are so much behind them in campus facilities that it ain't funny. We look like an really good DII campus, but not DI. Overall, the money has not been spent on research and graduate facilities to make any CIAA school DI. Also, VSU needs some major upgrades to their athletic facilities to even think about being competitive at the DI level. It was the same with WSSU when we attempted the move.

NCAT has been on a hot streak, them being the land grant HBCU in NC gives them a leg up on research dollars, land acquisition etc. They also have the leadership that can leverage all areas of the institution. That starts with a vision and plan of execution.

WSSU can be whatever it wants to be but that starts with a plan, leadership and all parties & stakeholders  moving in the same direction. I don’t think VSU is too far off facilities wise that can’t be remedied in the near future. You don’t need a 50k Seat stadium to be effective in D1. You need your fans & alumni supporting what’s currently in place. Basketball is already taken care of and their non revenue sports are in solid shape.

Offline westcoastaggie

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An Eagle and a Ram giving Aggies some positive words.

Astounding!

 :blush:

Offline EagleWing

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An Eagle and a Ram giving Aggies some positive words.

Astounding!

 :blush:

Don’t push it...  :vomit:

Online bluedog

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After 13 pages, I need a drank   :nod:

I just want to know what the KEY stakeholders and the VSU BOT think about this potential move? If admins listened to Alumni, the MEAC would've never formulated in the first place.

Imagine a CIAA with 24 teams?

 :shrug:
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Offline WileECoyote06

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From earlier in the thread

Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.

Also, A&T looks like a DI HBCU because they have been a DI HBCU for forty years.   :shrug:

I believe that D1 membership will result in a windfall of enrollment for VSU.  Possibly up to 1000 or more students in the next five years.  Sidebar: The majority of VSU's institutional peers are DI members (including two current MEAC members), so a push to join DI may also be connected to aligning with their peers.


Offline punchy

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.

True!
I have to give A&T some credit on their campus looking like a P5 school... even I hate doing so. To me they are what an HBCU DI campus should look like. I don't see that with any CIAA school. WSSU is the closest and we are so much behind them in campus facilities that it ain't funny. We look like an really good DII campus, but not DI. Overall, the money has not been spent on research and graduate facilities to make any CIAA school DI. Also, VSU needs some major upgrades to their athletic facilities to even think about being competitive at the DI level. It was the same with WSSU when we attempted the move.

When is the last time you visited VSU's campus?
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Offline Ram55

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An Eagle and a Ram giving Aggies some positive words.

Astounding!

 :blush:

In this case ya'll deserve it!

Offline Ram55

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.

True!
I have to give A&T some credit on their campus looking like a P5 school... even I hate doing so. To me they are what an HBCU DI campus should look like. I don't see that with any CIAA school. WSSU is the closest and we are so much behind them in campus facilities that it ain't funny. We look like an really good DII campus, but not DI. Overall, the money has not been spent on research and graduate facilities to make any CIAA school DI. Also, VSU needs some major upgrades to their athletic facilities to even think about being competitive at the DI level. It was the same with WSSU when we attempted the move.

When is the last time you visited VSU's campus?

A few years ago WSSU played them in football on their campus. Their campus looks really good. But when was the last time you been on A&Ts or WSSU's campuses? To me, being DI is more than sports. If HBCUs move up to take advantage of the higher prestige and what it brings, then I'm 100% for it. In most states the governments don't want our school to become DI because DI brings a higher price tag for facilities, faculty, and more. It also brings competition for grants and research money. Maybe the State of North Carolina
has bought into the idea of A&T being a DI school. Their campus and programs are exploding. If we can't do that other stuff, and just focus on sports its not worth it.

Online JAG89

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I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.

Offline Ram55

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I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.

I was not saying you have to already have all the facilities in place to move to DI, but you should be headed in that direction. Also, the facilities that I'm speaking of is not sports related. Classrooms, labs, libraries, parking garages, and etc. LSU is competitive in everything they do, HBCUs are not. If we are going to make a move to be DI, we should get something out of it  and not just a bunch of butt whippings. The goal should always to be competitive and advancement of our people. If we can't win on the fields, then we should win on the our campuses. Increase enrollments, facilities, endowments is worth some butt whoppings but to a point. If all we want to do is call ourselves DI we're stupid.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 02:50:15 PM by Ram55 »

Online JAG89

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I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.

I was not saying you have to already have all the facilities in place to move to DI, but you should be headed in that direction. Also, the facilities that I'm speaking of is not sports related. Classrooms, labs, libraries, parking garages, and etc. LSU is competitive in everything they do, HBCUs are not. If we are going to make a move to be DI, we should get something out of it  and not just a bunch of butt whippings. The goal should always to be competitive and advancement of our people. If we can't win on the fields, then we should win on the our campuses. Increase enrollments, facilities, endowments is worth some butt whoppings but to a point. If all we want to do is call ourselves DI we're stupid.

Vanderbilt doesn't mind being the whipping boy of the SEC, which I doubt that they would leave the SEC for another conference. Just being in the SEC brings them plenty of exposure and tons of money.  But using your logic, they should step down a few levels in order to compete.  And I bet schools like Tulane University in New Orleans wish they were still in the SEC.

Online bluedog

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I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.

I was not saying you have to already have all the facilities in place to move to DI, but you should be headed in that direction. Also, the facilities that I'm speaking of is not sports related. Classrooms, labs, libraries, parking garages, and etc. LSU is competitive in everything they do, HBCUs are not. If we are going to make a move to be DI, we should get something out of it  and not just a bunch of butt whippings. The goal should always to be competitive and advancement of our people. If we can't win on the fields, then we should win on the our campuses. Increase enrollments, facilities, endowments is worth some butt whoppings but to a point. If all we want to do is call ourselves DI we're stupid.

Vanderbilt doesn't mind being the whipping boy of the SEC, which I doubt that they would leave the SEC for another conference. Just being in the SEC brings them plenty of exposure and tons of money.  But using your logic, they should step down a few levels in order to compete.  And I bet schools like Tulane University in New Orleans wish they were still in the SEC.
Biggest mistake they ever made

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Online JAG89

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I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.

I was not saying you have to already have all the facilities in place to move to DI, but you should be headed in that direction. Also, the facilities that I'm speaking of is not sports related. Classrooms, labs, libraries, parking garages, and etc. LSU is competitive in everything they do, HBCUs are not. If we are going to make a move to be DI, we should get something out of it  and not just a bunch of butt whippings. The goal should always to be competitive and advancement of our people. If we can't win on the fields, then we should win on the our campuses. Increase enrollments, facilities, endowments is worth some butt whoppings but to a point. If all we want to do is call ourselves DI we're stupid.

Vanderbilt doesn't mind being the whipping boy of the SEC, which I doubt that they would leave the SEC for another conference. Just being in the SEC brings them plenty of exposure and tons of money.  But using your logic, they should step down a few levels in order to compete.  And I bet schools like Tulane University in New Orleans wish they were still in the SEC.
Biggest mistake they ever made

A mistake that kept them from being the National Champions the year their football team went undefeated, which led to the creation of the National Championship Game.

Offline Conquero

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

I think you are correct about travel expenses.  But I believe that applied across the board for the entire MEAC conference, which is why you are seeing the exodus.  I believe many school admin's tried to convince the MEAC to relax the travel and move to a truly North/South Division and the MEAC was reluctant. 

But it was more than that for SSU.  SSU had the lowest student athletic fee in the MEAC at $300 per semester and the Georgia Board of Regents felt that was too high.  There were some MEAC schools where student Athletic fees was well over $1k a semester for students.  In addition, SSU suffered from a horrible brain drain in leadership across the board which resulted in inadequate to no planning and vision for the institution's future.   

SSU is finally stabilizing again with decent leadership in the newly appointed President who has served as interim for 2 years.  KUDOS to the new President who is doing a fine job thus far.

Offline oleschoolaggie

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

I think you are correct about travel expenses.  But I believe that applied across the board for the entire MEAC conference, which is why you are seeing the exodus.  I believe many school admin's tried to convince the MEAC to relax the travel and move to a truly North/South Division and the MEAC was reluctant. 

But it was more than that for SSU.  SSU had the lowest student athletic fee in the MEAC at $300 per semester and the Georgia Board of Regents felt that was too high.  There were some MEAC schools where student Athletic fees was well over $1k a semester for students.  In addition, SSU suffered from a horrible brain drain in leadership across the board which resulted in inadequate to no planning and vision for the institution's future.   

SSU is finally stabilizing again with decent leadership in the newly appointed President who has served as interim for 2 years.  KUDOS to the new President who is doing a fine job thus far.

the success or failure to "persevere" at the d1 level for hbcu's really boils down to each institution's "leadership" more than anything else.  i'm really tired of folk using "travel costs" as an excuse to struggle at that level.

a&t has been a member of the meac "uninterrupted" for the last "50 years"!  if "travel costs" were the main issue for a&t leaving, then why did it take "50 years" to do so?  a&t could've easily stayed in the ciaa 50 years ago or anytime thereafter if that were the case.  same for all of the other "original" members of the meac as well.

this thing is all about "leadership" from the top.  the only difference between "27 game losing streak" a&t, versus the "3 time" consecutive bcf national champion a&t, is "LEADERSHIP" from the top...

 

 

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