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Author Topic: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC  (Read 6727 times)

Offline Professor

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

Great point. Meanwhile our peers are moving up without issue ( See list below )

Dixie State
Tarleton State
North Alabama
LIU
Merrimack

Offline EagleWing

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

Offline Ram55

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 12:37:22 PM by Ram55 »

Offline JAG89

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.

Offline ‘87 Alum

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.

Yeah, funding is essential to short and long term fiscal viability. Can’t overlook the impact of that state funding engine as seed capital as well.



Offline EagleWing

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.

Offline JAG89

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.

Yeah, funding is essential to short and long term fiscal viability. Can’t overlook the impact of that state funding engine as seed capital as well.

Yes the State of Alabama was/is a big plus as a funding source, but do you think the state would have funded the same amount if its public HBCUs remained DII???
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 05:59:20 AM by JAG89 »

Offline ‘87 Alum

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.

Yeah, funding is essential to short and long term fiscal viability. Can’t overlook the impact of that state funding engine as seed capital as well.

Yes the State of Alabama was/is a big plus as a funding source, but do you think the state would have funded the same amount if the its public HBCUs remained DII???

Not sure as I wasn’t closely monitoring it back then. I’m sure there is still a funding gap for State and A&M vs South Alabama, Troy and other comparably sized state schools. I would love to be wrong on that....

I wouldn’t expect and knowing damn well they ain’t funding HBCU’s at the same level of a UAB, Auburn or Alabama.



Offline JAG89

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.

Yeah, funding is essential to short and long term fiscal viability. Can’t overlook the impact of that state funding engine as seed capital as well.

Yes the State of Alabama was/is a big plus as a funding source, but do you think the state would have funded the same amount if the its public HBCUs remained DII???

Not sure as I wasn’t closely monitoring it back then. I’m sure there is still a funding gap for State and A&M vs South Alabama, Troy and other comparably sized state schools. I would love to be wrong on that....

I wouldn’t expect and knowing damn well they ain’t funding HBCU’s at the same level of a UAB, Auburn or Alabama.

I'm pretty sure you are correct, but that's a topic for a different conversation.

Offline Ram55

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.

True!
I have to give A&T some credit on their campus looking like a P5 school... even I hate doing so. To me they are what an HBCU DI campus should look like. I don't see that with any CIAA school. WSSU is the closest and we are so much behind them in campus facilities that it ain't funny. We look like an really good DII campus, but not DI. Overall, the money has not been spent on research and graduate facilities to make any CIAA school DI. Also, VSU needs some major upgrades to their athletic facilities to even think about being competitive at the DI level. It was the same with WSSU when we attempted the move.

Offline JAG89

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Hold up, now schools have to upgrade their academic facilities in order to move up to the DI level. Any ole excuse to remain in that non-progressive comfort zone.

Offline bluedog

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I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

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Offline Ram55

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Hold up, now schools have to upgrade their academic facilities in order to move up to the DI level. Any ole excuse to remain in that non-progressive comfort zone.

Sure they have to upgrade their academic facilities. There has to be something worth moving up to other than sports, to which we can't compete. We should take advantage of all the benefits that comes with a move to DI. The NCCU poster was making some good points about the benefits of moving up, other than just sports. Like student population growth, campus facilities, and much more. These are the only benifits that I think making the move is worth. Otherwise, we would be making a move to get beat down for nothing.

Offline JAG89

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Hold up, now schools have to upgrade their academic facilities in order to move up to the DI level. Any ole excuse to remain in that non-progressive comfort zone.

Sure they have to upgrade their academic facilities. There has to be something worth moving up to other than sports, to which we can't compete. We should take advantage of all the benefits that comes with a move to DI. The NCCU poster was making some good points about the benefits of moving up, other than just sports. Like student population growth, campus facilities, and much more. These are the only benifits that I think making the move is worth. Otherwise, we would be making a move to get beat down for nothing.

What rule says that a school has to upgrade their academic facilities to compete at the DI level???  LSU probably ranks in the top 5 when it comes to athletic facilities, but its academic programs fall way short of being anywhere near the top 5.  Even some of your previous posts imply that one has nothing to do with the other, especially when you compared academic programs at Ivy League schools to academic programs at SEC schools. And what the NCCU poster really said is that he noticed an accelerated growth in his school's entire profile AFTER moving up to the DI level, which has nothing do with upgrading academic facilities PRIOR to moving up to the DI level. One can makeup tons of excuses, but there's no justification for regressive thinking at institutions of higher learning.

Offline westcoastaggie

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After 13 pages, I need a drank   :nod:

I just want to know what the KEY stakeholders and the VSU BOT think about this potential move? If admins listened to Alumni, the MEAC would've never formulated in the first place.

Imagine a CIAA with 24 teams?

 :shrug:

 

 

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