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Author Topic: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?  (Read 4374 times)

Offline punchy

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2018, 02:48:26 PM »
...you can get your anus pushed out your mouth.

Budgets are very important.  As are the tools to properly research them:

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

Prairie View ain't outspending Jacksonville State in nuffin.

I never said budget weren't important. But A&T, with a budget of 13 million, just beat ECU, who happens to have a budget of 48 million dollars. If we are stating that budget are the end all to be all when going beastmode in college football,,,,,,THAT AIN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. Which is why I say on any given Saturday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline AimHigh

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2018, 03:05:03 PM »
So Far only Savannah State have come to realize that they don't belong in D1 Sports. However there are others that would rather discontinue sports than to drop back to D2. Hell you came from D2 before you moved up to D1 Sports. :nod: :lol: :snicker But my list for drop back to D2 is

Football
Alabama A&M
MVSU
Jackson State
South Carolina State
Norfolk State
UAPB
Tennessee State
BCU

This list generally makes sense. What is your rationale for Tennessee State though?

Offline ‘87 Alum

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2018, 03:08:36 PM »
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?



Offline AimHigh

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2018, 03:12:08 PM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.

Offline TheBlackPanther

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2018, 03:58:19 PM »
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?

$800,000 is the highest I’ve ever heard of and I believe that was FAMU’s payout for playing Arkansas a few years ago. My memory is a little fuzzy though so I could be off by a bit.

Offline punchy

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2018, 05:39:50 PM »
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?

$800,000 is the highest I’ve ever heard of and I believe that was FAMU’s payout for playing Arkansas a few years ago. My memory is a little fuzzy though so I could be off by a bit.

I thought FAMU got 900K to play at Ohio State a few years ago? Maybe they could shed more light on that payday. Del State got a nice payday to play at Michigan,,,,,,,,so much that they cancelled a MEAC division game with one of our brethren to play Michigan,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Offline PowellAnthony

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2018, 05:50:50 PM »
North Carolina A&T received a $300,000 pay day playing East Carolina and they also won the game. No HBCUs are going to receive this kind of money playing Division 2 or NAIA schools.   

Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2018, 06:24:07 PM »
Maybe Hampton and Howard, but not all. :nono2:

In my view, the legitimate D1 programs are Grambling, NC A&T, NC Central, Prairie View A&M, Southern
and Tennessee State.

The programs that clearly should drop to D2 are Alabama A&M, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Coppin State, Maryland Eastern Shore, and Mississippi Valley State.

All of the others could go in either direction.
This joker here  :lol:  Strange how he put us out there but SCSU & Del State can go either way????  :crazy:  Leave it to Ole Mr. Voyeurism.  :lol:

I put Alabama A&M out because you have the LOWEST budget in ALL of D1 athletics. :tiptoe:

I am talking about all-around athletic programs, which of course are driven by football and basketball revenues. It is a myth of assumed inferiority that all HBCUs are not resourced to be competitive as D1s. Let me prove it.

Prairie View has a budget stronger than Citadel, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, and Weber State. NC Central and Southern have stronger budgets than VMI, Idaho State, and McNeese State. NC A&T just beat an FBS East Carolina team that punished UNC. Some HBCUs like Grambling do not have great budgets but still historically manage to be pretty competitive. Tennessee State and even Alabama State have bonafide FCS resources and facilities. If Alabama A&M has made ripples in D1, then please inform me.

Look at the budget numbers here: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
Please cite the methodology in this report that makes it a determining factor as to whether a school should be D1 or D2 or any level for that reason. If our athletics budget (in almost 20 years as a D1) is low but we have not been in any financial difficulty, we are expanding our educational offers, building new facilities/dorms, not dropping in enrollment, what concern is it of yours what level we play on???? Not that I'm against dropping down because I would have no problem going back to the SIAC.  The report indicated that Bama state had the exact amount of revenue as they had in expenses. How is that possible ???? :shrug: Our facilities are on par with or better than most of the HBCU FCS campuses I've been to (i.e. better than Howard's. :shrug:) Given all the indepth research and thought it appears you have put into this opinion,  I will be sure to file it right next to your opinion of my photos.

Here you go Que:

http://sports.usatoday.com/2018/06/28/methodology-for-2017-ncaa-athletic-department-revenue-database/

Maybe my response wasn't clear.  "Please cite the methodology in this report that makes it a determining factor as to whether a school should be D1 or D2 or any level for that reason."
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Offline JBROB

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2018, 07:53:37 PM »
Most of the MEAC members were a part of the CIAA in 1969.  Just for historical reference.

CIAA 1969
Elizabeth City State University,  1957
Fayetteville State University   1954
Johnson C. Smith University   1926
Livingstone College       1931
Saint Augustine's University      1933
Shaw University   1912
Virginia State University  1920
Virginia Union University      1912
Winston–Salem State University    1945
Lincoln University  1912
Delaware State University
Hampton University
Howard University
University of Maryland Eastern Shore
Morgan State University
Norfolk State University
North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University
North Carolina Central University
Saint Paul's College

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intercollegiate_Athletic_Association






Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2018, 09:10:23 PM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 10:39:01 PM by Que82 »
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Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2018, 09:11:47 PM »
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?
We got 615K from Auburn.  :shrug:
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Offline EPJr

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2018, 09:53:38 PM »
If we're being 100% honest, none of the current D1 HBCU's have the budgets to truly be competitive in all sports with PWI's. Not a single one of them. And if we're still being honest, just about every last DII HBCU (my alma mater included) would probably find more success at the NAIA level.

We can sit around here and pretend like some HBCU's are on a different level but the truth is we're all in the same boat when it comes to athletics. Some of us just get lucky more than others. I'm sure my opinion is an unpopular one but I've always felt this way.




At this point, NCAA Div II and NAIA are equal competition-wise.

You’re right. Then I guess DIII would be the next best option because it’s very clear that we aren’t scaring anyone in DII.

nope blacks don't need to be in D3

2x CIAA Champions - Go Lady Panthers!!!

Offline AimHigh

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2018, 10:27:03 PM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"



Hey buddy this ainte personal. You may be offended by my critique of your pics, but no harm intended. I appreciate your contribution. I think and hope we both respect the virtue of our culture and our women. To your question, this isn't about Howard or A&M. It's about what is true for whomever. Anyone who knows anything about college athletics knows that being D1 has EVERYTHING to do with being at a HIGHER LEVEL of RESOURCES and COMPETITIVENESS. If the rest of your institution reasons the way you do, then that explains a lot. Howard has made some ripples in D1, but maybe we should still be D2. I'm not against that.

Howard pulls biggest point-spread upset in college football history

By the way, I appreciate you posting the Williams Brothers. Keep that mindset on Gameday. :nod:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 10:53:44 PM by AimHigh »

Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2018, 10:51:16 PM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources.  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug:

Hey buddy this ainte personal. You may be offended by my critique of your pics, but no harm intended. I appreciate your contribution. I think and hope we both respect the virtue of our culture and our women. To your question, this isn't about Howard or A&M. It's about what is true for whomever. Anyone who knows anything about college athletics knows that being D1 has EVERYTHING to do with being at a HIGHER LEVEL of RESOURCES and COMPETITIVENESS. If the rest of your institution reasons the way you do, then that explains a lot. Howard has made some ripples in D1, but maybe we should still be D2. I'm not against that.

Howard pulls biggest point-spread upset in college football history
Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::).  If its not about A&M or any of the other school you would have made this a general assessment which included your own non-competitive school instead of the specifics you used.  Howard won one game in a horrid decade of play and y'all have arrive????  :crazy:  Your other money sports have not done crap either, so you should have accessed yours first before talking about someone else.  You right though, it ain't personal because I know nothing about you but your arrogant ass posts.
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Offline AimHigh

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2018, 11:01:03 PM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"



Hey buddy this ainte personal. You may be offended by my critique of your pics, but no harm intended. I appreciate your contribution. I think and hope we both respect the virtue of our culture and our women. To your question, this isn't about Howard or A&M. It's about what is true for whomever. Anyone who knows anything about college athletics knows that being D1 has EVERYTHING to do with being at a HIGHER LEVEL of RESOURCES and COMPETITIVENESS. If the rest of your institution reasons the way you do, then that explains a lot. Howard has made some ripples in D1, but maybe we should still be D2. I'm not against that.

Howard pulls biggest point-spread upset in college football history
Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::).  If its not about A&M or any of the other school you would have made this a general assessment which included your own non-competitive school instead of the specifics you used.  Howard won one game in a horrid decade of play and y'all have arrive????  :crazy:  Your other money sports have not done crap either, so you should have accessed yours first before talking about someone else.  You right though, it ain't personal because I know nothing about you but your arrogant a**  posts.

Stay in our gospel mindset friend. :angel:

 

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