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Author Topic: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?  (Read 3347 times)

Offline Ram55

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2018, 10:54:26 AM »
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
Alabama A&M should be D1 just as much as any other HBCU at that level.  Our school is not in financial peril of closing because of our sports program.  In fact we are building and growing.  We are about as productive as the state of Alabama will allow us to be.  When you look at overall sustained success in athletics programs there is not one "legit" as you call D1 because HBCU success is cyclic.  So as I said before put down your rock before you break a wall in your glass house.

"I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy."

Now if that statement doesn't sound pretentious I don't know what does.  :shrug: I guess you guys are the one's who drive the Mercedes while living in the projects.  :lol:  So you Black Ivies (I guess that's less than legit Ivy) can keep looking down your jaundice eyes at us lessor HBCUs.  :nod:

For your information and edification when attacked, defense is a common response. :popcorn:

I have to respectfully agree with Que82. NSU has definitely grown! It seems there is always construction going on at SPARTA, and I love it! I think NSU belongs at the FCS level for football,,,,,maybe not JMU or NDSU-SDSU level yet, but we're getting there. Basketball is getting there. We did advance past the first game in the big dance against Missouri once, so,,,,,and our track and field used to help us win the All Sports award a number of years. Baseball is pretty good at NSU, as well as bowling. We're good. I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody would assume that NSU might be better off in D2?  :shrug:

Size and number of buildings on a campus has nothing to do with you belonging in a division. WSSU has grown also, but we are definitely a DII school. Go on line and take a look at some DII schools... you will be amazed. Look at their campuses and enrollments and you will re-think your comments.

Offline punchy

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2018, 05:19:48 PM »
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
Alabama A&M should be D1 just as much as any other HBCU at that level.  Our school is not in financial peril of closing because of our sports program.  In fact we are building and growing.  We are about as productive as the state of Alabama will allow us to be.  When you look at overall sustained success in athletics programs there is not one "legit" as you call D1 because HBCU success is cyclic.  So as I said before put down your rock before you break a wall in your glass house.

"I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy."

Now if that statement doesn't sound pretentious I don't know what does.  :shrug: I guess you guys are the one's who drive the Mercedes while living in the projects.  :lol:  So you Black Ivies (I guess that's less than legit Ivy) can keep looking down your jaundice eyes at us lessor HBCUs.  :nod:

For your information and edification when attacked, defense is a common response. :popcorn:

I have to respectfully agree with Que82. NSU has definitely grown! It seems there is always construction going on at SPARTA, and I love it! I think NSU belongs at the FCS level for football,,,,,maybe not JMU or NDSU-SDSU level yet, but we're getting there. Basketball is getting there. We did advance past the first game in the big dance against Missouri once, so,,,,,and our track and field used to help us win the All Sports award a number of years. Baseball is pretty good at NSU, as well as bowling. We're good. I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody would assume that NSU might be better off in D2?  :shrug:

Size and number of buildings on a campus has nothing to do with you belonging in a division. WSSU has grown also, but we are definitely a DII school. Go on line and take a look at some DII schools... you will be amazed. Look at their campuses and enrollments and you will re-think your comments.

My perspective goes for the overall status of NSU. Which included buildings. I personally think we've outgrown D2.I don't need to rethink anything. I'm entitled to my opinion, right?  ::)
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Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2018, 05:52:10 PM »
Be whatever you can afford to be.  If your school can afford to be D1 and you can sustain the costs without hurting the school overall, if that's what you want to be, be it. If you can't afford to be D1 then be all/what you can be.  Every school on the FBS level is not competing for the ship but the white folks aren't saying they aren't legit FBS.  That's something that people with a crab mentality do.  We have been on the D1 level 19 years and our school has not suffered because of it.  Have we been as competitive as we would like?, no, but if we ain't talking about dropping down what concern is it of yours????  Thing is we are not willing to throw all our funding into an athletic budget to earn a title that will cost us more than we earn.  :shrug:  If you want to tell me what to do in my house you need to pay the mortgage.  If you are not paying it when and what we do is no concern of yours even if we lose a game by 1000 points. :popcorn:  Someone said when one HBCU looks bad we all do, well if your school were winning nobody would think that and this would be an isolated incident.  :shrug: :tiptoe:
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Offline AimHigh

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2018, 07:56:32 PM »
Be whatever you can afford to be.  If your school can afford to be D1 and you can sustain the costs without hurting the school overall, if that's what you want to be, be it. If you can't afford to be D1 then be all/what you can be.  Every school on the FBS level is not competing for the ship but the white folks aren't saying they aren't legit FBS.  That's something that people with a crab mentality do.  We have been on the D1 level 19 years and our school has not suffered because of it.  Have we been as competitive as we would like?, no, but if we ain't talking about dropping down what concern is it of yours????  Thing is we are not willing to throw all our funding into an athletic budget to earn a title that will cost us more than we earn.  :shrug:  If you want to tell me what to do in my house you need to pay the mortgage.  If you are not paying it when and what we do is no concern of yours even if we lose a game by 1000 points. :popcorn:  Someone said when one HBCU looks bad we all do, well if your school were winning nobody would think that and this would be an isolated incident.  :shrug: :tiptoe:

Okay buddy ;) be you.

Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2018, 08:39:24 PM »
Be whatever you can afford to be.  If your school can afford to be D1 and you can sustain the costs without hurting the school overall, if that's what you want to be, be it. If you can't afford to be D1 then be all/what you can be.  Every school on the FBS level is not competing for the ship but the white folks aren't saying they aren't legit FBS.  That's something that people with a crab mentality do.  We have been on the D1 level 19 years and our school has not suffered because of it.  Have we been as competitive as we would like?, no, but if we ain't talking about dropping down what concern is it of yours????  Thing is we are not willing to throw all our funding into an athletic budget to earn a title that will cost us more than we earn.  :shrug:  If you want to tell me what to do in my house you need to pay the mortgage.  If you are not paying it when and what we do is no concern of yours even if we lose a game by 1000 points. :popcorn:  Someone said when one HBCU looks bad we all do, well if your school were winning nobody would think that and this would be an isolated incident.  :shrug: :tiptoe:

Okay buddy ;) be you.
Okay dipstick  ;D stay in your lane.  Since you desire to call me something else beside Que82 I will show the same courtesy to you.  :nod:
Never discuss cheese with a rat, bread with a bird or make moves with a snake.

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Offline AimHigh

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2018, 11:50:41 PM »
Be whatever you can afford to be.  If your school can afford to be D1 and you can sustain the costs without hurting the school overall, if that's what you want to be, be it. If you can't afford to be D1 then be all/what you can be.  Every school on the FBS level is not competing for the ship but the white folks aren't saying they aren't legit FBS.  That's something that people with a crab mentality do.  We have been on the D1 level 19 years and our school has not suffered because of it.  Have we been as competitive as we would like?, no, but if we ain't talking about dropping down what concern is it of yours????  Thing is we are not willing to throw all our funding into an athletic budget to earn a title that will cost us more than we earn.  :shrug:  If you want to tell me what to do in my house you need to pay the mortgage.  If you are not paying it when and what we do is no concern of yours even if we lose a game by 1000 points. :popcorn:  Someone said when one HBCU looks bad we all do, well if your school were winning nobody would think that and this would be an isolated incident.  :shrug: :tiptoe:

Okay buddy ;) be you.
Okay dipstick  ;D stay in your lane.  Since you desire to call me something else beside Que82 I will show the same courtesy to you.  :nod:

:lol: Haha this is funny! Have a good one Que.

Offline ‘87 Alum

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2018, 09:41:51 AM »
This right here is some Hall Of Fame smack....

Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::)

Why am I having flashbacks to Jim Rome and Jim Everett going at it on ESPN2....when Rome called Jim Everett “Chris” to his face...

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Offline punchy

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2018, 12:16:01 AM »
What D2 HBCUs are legit D2 and which D2 HBCUs should be D3?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 12:18:03 AM by punchy »
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Offline The Watcher

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2018, 01:23:51 AM »
What D2 HBCUs are legit D2 and which D2 HBCUs should be D3?

Lincoln, SAU and Livingstone. Maybe NAIA.

Offline BisonBlu

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2018, 03:44:57 AM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"



For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M.


For one, moving up in the MEAC does not make you a legit D1, it makes you a legit MEAC school.  Therefore the conference argument is not germane.

Men's Sports (as listed on your website)
1. Basketball
2. Football
3. Cross Country
4. Soccer
5. Swimming and Diving
6. Track and Field
7  Tennis

Women's Sports

8.  Basketball
9.  Bowling
10. Cross Country
11. Lacrosse
12. Soccer
13. Softball
14. Swimming & Diving
15. Tennis
16. Track & Field
17. Volleyball

https://hubison.com/

I'm not a math whiz but unless you are counting Spades and Bid Whist you come up short of supporting 19 sports. :shrug:

"When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons."

Last 6 years records

Basketball  2017 10-23, 2016 10-24, 2015 12-20, 2014 16-16, 2013 9-22, 2012 9-22

Football  2017 7-4, 2016 2-9, 2015 1-10, 2014 5-7, 2013 6-6, 2012 7-4

Cross Country 2017 8th MEAC, 2017 10th MEAC 2016 7th MEAC, 2015 4th MEAC 2014

Soccer 2017 2-15-3, 2016  2-15-3, 2015 0-17-2, 2014 2-15-2, 2013 1-17, 2012 3-16

MEN'S SWIMMING AND DIVING 2017 8-4, 2016 5-6, 2015 1-7, 2014 0-10, 2013 0-11, 2012

Men's Tennis  2017 1-15, 2016 1-13, 2015 3-16, 2014 3-13, 2013 2-16, 2012 8-2

MEN'S TRACK AND FIELD 2017 13th MEAC, 2016 No Data, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 No Data

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL  2017 12-18, 2016 16-13, 2015 7-24, 2014 4-27, 2013 11-20, 2012 20-12

WOMEN'S BOWLING 2017 28-68, 2016 45-74, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 2015 No Data

Softball 2018 8-37, 2017 4-34  2016 9-32   2015 14-29  2014 4-36  2013 7-18

Volleyball 2017 16-16  2016 26-6   2015 18-14  2014 20-11  2013 21-11  2012 No Data

Whew that's enough and more than the majority.  I get that y'all have money but from the looks of the above your overall program is as sh!tty as us broke mugs.  :shrug:  So for someone from HU to try to tell me we should drop down and y'all could go either way as a legit D1 bears no merit. :shrug:

"Liars figure but figures don't lie." 

By the looks of it, your budget has no significant impact on your competitiveness except in one non-revenue sport. :shrug:

So, I’m not sure if you know but track and field has an indoor and outdoor season. And that’s how youve missed count.  I see that you’ve also omitted the stats of women’s soccer. Howard won the SWAC title in ‘14 &’15 and has not loss 10 conference games since joining. I see that you are quick to use selective facts.  By no way are we a Power 5 school but compared to our peers and within the Mid-Atlantic Region we are competitive.

Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2018, 08:01:32 AM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"



For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M.


For one, moving up in the MEAC does not make you a legit D1, it makes you a legit MEAC school.  Therefore the conference argument is not germane.

Men's Sports (as listed on your website)
1. Basketball
2. Football
3. Cross Country
4. Soccer
5. Swimming and Diving
6. Track and Field
7  Tennis

Women's Sports

8.  Basketball
9.  Bowling
10. Cross Country
11. Lacrosse
12. Soccer
13. Softball
14. Swimming & Diving
15. Tennis
16. Track & Field
17. Volleyball

https://hubison.com/

I'm not a math whiz but unless you are counting Spades and Bid Whist you come up short of supporting 19 sports. :shrug:

"When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons."

Last 6 years records

Basketball  2017 10-23, 2016 10-24, 2015 12-20, 2014 16-16, 2013 9-22, 2012 9-22

Football  2017 7-4, 2016 2-9, 2015 1-10, 2014 5-7, 2013 6-6, 2012 7-4

Cross Country 2017 8th MEAC, 2017 10th MEAC 2016 7th MEAC, 2015 4th MEAC 2014

Soccer 2017 2-15-3, 2016  2-15-3, 2015 0-17-2, 2014 2-15-2, 2013 1-17, 2012 3-16

MEN'S SWIMMING AND DIVING 2017 8-4, 2016 5-6, 2015 1-7, 2014 0-10, 2013 0-11, 2012

Men's Tennis  2017 1-15, 2016 1-13, 2015 3-16, 2014 3-13, 2013 2-16, 2012 8-2

MEN'S TRACK AND FIELD 2017 13th MEAC, 2016 No Data, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 No Data

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL  2017 12-18, 2016 16-13, 2015 7-24, 2014 4-27, 2013 11-20, 2012 20-12

WOMEN'S BOWLING 2017 28-68, 2016 45-74, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 2015 No Data

Softball 2018 8-37, 2017 4-34  2016 9-32   2015 14-29  2014 4-36  2013 7-18

Volleyball 2017 16-16  2016 26-6   2015 18-14  2014 20-11  2013 21-11  2012 No Data

Whew that's enough and more than the majority.  I get that y'all have money but from the looks of the above your overall program is as sh!tty as us broke mugs.  :shrug:  So for someone from HU to try to tell me we should drop down and y'all could go either way as a legit D1 bears no merit. :shrug:

"Liars figure but figures don't lie." 

By the looks of it, your budget has no significant impact on your competitiveness except in one non-revenue sport. :shrug:

So, I’m not sure if you know but track and field has an indoor and outdoor season. And that’s how youve missed count.  I see that you’ve also omitted the stats of women’s soccer. Howard won the SWAC title in ‘14 &’15 and has not loss 10 conference games since joining. I see that you are quick to use selective facts.  By no way are we a Power 5 school but compared to our peers and within the Mid-Atlantic Region we are competitive.
I posted what was listed on your website. They didn't list it as separate nor does anyone else.  :shrug: Do you have a different set of athletes running indoor and outdoor???? As I said before, we were talking about being a legit D1 in reference to winning against D1s overall and all you want to talk about is what you did in HBCU competition.  But since you asked.

Women's Soccer

2017  9-10-1  1-1 in SWAC Tourney Bama St went to NCAA

2016  13-4-3  Beat SU, 1-1 in SWAC Tourney Bama St went to NCAA

2015  13-8-2  Won SWAC Tourney, lost to Virginia in NCAA

2014  13-9-1  Won SWAC Tourney  PVAM to NCAA

2013  6-7-2  Jackson St to NCAA

2012  7-15   Miss Valley to NCAA
 
What about this, based on your ample finances, makes you are a legit D1 HBCU more so than anyone else???? You seem to be in a hole, so its probably best to stop digging. :shrug:
Never discuss cheese with a rat, bread with a bird or make moves with a snake.

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Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2018, 08:10:00 AM »
If you think my stats are selective, please feel free to post the correct one's.  I'll wait...
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Offline FunCkMaster

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2018, 11:49:41 PM »
This right here is some Hall Of Fame smack....

Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::)

Why am I having flashbacks to Jim Rome and Jim Everett going at it on ESPN2....when Rome called Jim Everett “Chris” to his face...

:lmao:

"Bet you won't call me that again."

"I betcha I will...Chris!"

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