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Author Topic: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?  (Read 3304 times)

Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2018, 11:04:37 PM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"



Hey buddy this ainte personal. You may be offended by my critique of your pics, but no harm intended. I appreciate your contribution. I think and hope we both respect the virtue of our culture and our women. To your question, this isn't about Howard or A&M. It's about what is true for whomever. Anyone who knows anything about college athletics knows that being D1 has EVERYTHING to do with being at a HIGHER LEVEL of RESOURCES and COMPETITIVENESS. If the rest of your institution reasons the way you do, then that explains a lot. Howard has made some ripples in D1, but maybe we should still be D2. I'm not against that.

Howard pulls biggest point-spread upset in college football history
Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::).  If its not about A&M or any of the other school you would have made this a general assessment which included your own non-competitive school instead of the specifics you used.  Howard won one game in a horrid decade of play and y'all have arrive????  :crazy:  Your other money sports have not done crap either, so you should have accessed yours first before talking about someone else.  You right though, it ain't personal because I know nothing about you but your arrogant a**  posts.

Stay in our gospel mindset friend. :angel:
I accept "friend" much better than "buddy".  I promise to stay in a gospel mindset is you promise to stay in your lane.  :popcorn:
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Offline Ram55

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2018, 04:40:11 PM »
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?

But Troy is an FBS school, so them playing a P5 school is the same as NCCU playing North Dakota state. Thats not really a money game for them. They are just playing one of the better teams in their division. Troy should have gotten more for playing them than a FCS school would have gotten.

Offline punchy

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2018, 09:04:26 PM »
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?

But Troy is an FBS school, so them playing a P5 school is the same as NCCU playing North Dakota state. Thats not really a money game for them. They are just playing one of the better teams in their division. Troy should have gotten more for playing them than a FCS school would have gotten.

If Nebraska would've returned a game to Troy, Troy wouldn't have gotten paid. I see that VaTech is returning a game to ODU in Norfolk. I'm sure that will bring a crowd this weekend.
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Offline BisonBlu

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2018, 02:50:02 AM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"



For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M. 

Offline ‘87 Alum

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2018, 07:59:16 AM »
So being in the top half of MEAC budgets is a parallel to what in the grand schema of Div 1 Athletic budgets?

And because you field 19 teams, how many are competitive at the national level? Shouldn’t that be the achievement bar that programs should be measured against, or simply put, are we fielding teams just to say we offer “X” number of sports and teams?

The thread and resulting conversations were initially based on the lack of competitiveness of some schools in several sports. Let’s not lose sight of that aspect.
 


Offline Ram55

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2018, 09:02:43 AM »
All, lets not forget the reasons school offer sports programs. Its not to be national champs, but to offer students extra curricular participation and the experience. Our goals should be to be competitive, if possible, with "similar" schools. If the similar schools are DI, then we should remain DI. However, schools that are similar to us are mostly DII.

Offline BisonBlu

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2018, 04:46:26 PM »
So being in the top half of MEAC budgets is a parallel to what in the grand schema of Div 1 Athletic budgets?

And because you field 19 teams, how many are competitive at the national level? Shouldn’t that be the achievement bar that programs should be measured against, or simply put, are we fielding teams just to say we offer “X” number of sports and teams?

The thread and resulting conversations were initially based on the lack of competitiveness of some schools in several sports. Let’s not lose sight of that aspect.

So everyone who is not a nationally ranked program should bow down and drop to D-2.  Currently Howard fields competive D-I teams in several sports. Not powerhouse programs but very few non-power five schools field top notch programs throughout their departments. Would you say that schools should leave SIAC/CIAA for NAIA?

Offline ‘87 Alum

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2018, 09:48:54 PM »
So being in the top half of MEAC budgets is a parallel to what in the grand schema of Div 1 Athletic budgets?

And because you field 19 teams, how many are competitive at the national level? Shouldn’t that be the achievement bar that programs should be measured against, or simply put, are we fielding teams just to say we offer “X” number of sports and teams?

The thread and resulting conversations were initially based on the lack of competitiveness of some schools in several sports. Let’s not lose sight of that aspect.

So everyone who is not a nationally ranked program should bow down and drop to D-2.  Currently Howard fields competive D-I teams in several sports. Not powerhouse programs but very few non-power five schools field top notch programs throughout their departments. Would you say that schools should leave SIAC/CIAA for NAIA?

Don't get it twisted, unlike some of you, I have never advocated teams moving down divisions.  I merely asked a honest question merely based on your prior comment about being in the top half of conference athletic budgets. Again, the original premise was based on competitive with other D1 programs.  is that not true?


Offline Thinkingaboutit

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2018, 10:17:17 PM »
I will bet most of the persons replying on this does not give a dime to their alma mater while having all the answers. Stay where you want to stay.  Let it go!  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:  I know not what course others may take and glad some of you closet businessmen have no say so in the operations of these institutions.  Stay in your comfort zones   ' ON THE PORCH'   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)  leave your neighbors alone.

Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2018, 10:28:50 PM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"



For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M.


For one, moving up in the MEAC does not make you a legit D1, it makes you a legit MEAC school.  Therefore the conference argument is not germane.

Men's Sports (as listed on your website)
1. Basketball
2. Football
3. Cross Country
4. Soccer
5. Swimming and Diving
6. Track and Field
7  Tennis

Women's Sports

8.  Basketball
9.  Bowling
10. Cross Country
11. Lacrosse
12. Soccer
13. Softball
14. Swimming & Diving
15. Tennis
16. Track & Field
17. Volleyball

https://hubison.com/

I'm not a math whiz but unless you are counting Spades and Bid Whist you come up short of supporting 19 sports. :shrug:

"When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons."

Last 6 years records

Basketball  2017 10-23, 2016 10-24, 2015 12-20, 2014 16-16, 2013 9-22, 2012 9-22

Football  2017 7-4, 2016 2-9, 2015 1-10, 2014 5-7, 2013 6-6, 2012 7-4

Cross Country 2017 8th MEAC, 2017 10th MEAC 2016 7th MEAC, 2015 4th MEAC 2014

Soccer 2017 2-15-3, 2016  2-15-3, 2015 0-17-2, 2014 2-15-2, 2013 1-17, 2012 3-16

MEN'S SWIMMING AND DIVING 2017 8-4, 2016 5-6, 2015 1-7, 2014 0-10, 2013 0-11, 2012

Men's Tennis  2017 1-15, 2016 1-13, 2015 3-16, 2014 3-13, 2013 2-16, 2012 8-2

MEN'S TRACK AND FIELD 2017 13th MEAC, 2016 No Data, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 No Data

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL  2017 12-18, 2016 16-13, 2015 7-24, 2014 4-27, 2013 11-20, 2012 20-12

WOMEN'S BOWLING 2017 28-68, 2016 45-74, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 2015 No Data

Softball 2018 8-37, 2017 4-34  2016 9-32   2015 14-29  2014 4-36  2013 7-18

Volleyball 2017 16-16  2016 26-6   2015 18-14  2014 20-11  2013 21-11  2012 No Data

Whew that's enough and more than the majority.  I get that y'all have money but from the looks of the above your overall program is as sh!tty as us broke mugs.  :shrug:  So for someone from HU to try to tell me we should drop down and y'all could go either way as a legit D1 bears no merit. :shrug:

"Liars figure but figures don't lie." 

By the looks of it, your budget has no significant impact on your competitiveness except in one non-revenue sport. :shrug:
Never discuss cheese with a rat, bread with a bird or make moves with a snake.

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Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2018, 10:34:22 PM »
I will bet most of the persons replying on this does not give a dime to their alma mater while having all the answers. Stay where you want to stay.  Let it go!  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:  I know not what course others may take and glad some of you closet businessmen have no say so in the operations of these institutions.  Stay in your comfort zones   ' ON THE PORCH'   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)  leave your neighbors alone.
I give at a minimum $100 a month for more than two decades, normally buy season tickets to attend 1 game (homecoming), season basketball tickets to attend 0 games, donate to special causes, drive 77 miles one way to be a member of my Alumni Association, so I guess I don't fall in your "most" category. ;)
Never discuss cheese with a rat, bread with a bird or make moves with a snake.

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Offline AimHigh

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2018, 12:07:20 AM »
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 12:10:01 AM by AimHigh »

Offline Que82

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2018, 01:00:30 AM »
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
Alabama A&M should be D1 just as much as any other HBCU at that level.  Our school is not in financial peril of closing because of our sports program.  In fact we are building and growing.  We are about as productive as the state of Alabama will allow us to be.  When you look at overall sustained success in athletics programs there is not one "legit" as you call D1 because HBCU success is cyclic.  So as I said before put down your rock before you break a wall in your glass house.

"I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy."

Now if that statement doesn't sound pretentious I don't know what does.  :shrug: I guess you guys are the one's who drive the Mercedes while living in the projects.  :lol:  So you Black Ivies (I guess that's less than legit Ivy) can keep looking down your jaundice eyes at us lessor HBCUs.  :nod:

For your information and edification when attacked, defense is a common response. :popcorn:
Never discuss cheese with a rat, bread with a bird or make moves with a snake.

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Offline Ram55

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2018, 08:32:34 AM »
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"



For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M.


For one, moving up in the MEAC does not make you a legit D1, it makes you a legit MEAC school.  Therefore the conference argument is not germane.

Men's Sports (as listed on your website)
1. Basketball
2. Football
3. Cross Country
4. Soccer
5. Swimming and Diving
6. Track and Field
7  Tennis

Women's Sports

8.  Basketball
9.  Bowling
10. Cross Country
11. Lacrosse
12. Soccer
13. Softball
14. Swimming & Diving
15. Tennis
16. Track & Field
17. Volleyball

https://hubison.com/

I'm not a math whiz but unless you are counting Spades and Bid Whist you come up short of supporting 19 sports. :shrug:

"When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons."

Last 6 years records

Basketball  2017 10-23, 2016 10-24, 2015 12-20, 2014 16-16, 2013 9-22, 2012 9-22

Football  2017 7-4, 2016 2-9, 2015 1-10, 2014 5-7, 2013 6-6, 2012 7-4

Cross Country 2017 8th MEAC, 2017 10th MEAC 2016 7th MEAC, 2015 4th MEAC 2014

Soccer 2017 2-15-3, 2016  2-15-3, 2015 0-17-2, 2014 2-15-2, 2013 1-17, 2012 3-16

MEN'S SWIMMING AND DIVING 2017 8-4, 2016 5-6, 2015 1-7, 2014 0-10, 2013 0-11, 2012

Men's Tennis  2017 1-15, 2016 1-13, 2015 3-16, 2014 3-13, 2013 2-16, 2012 8-2

MEN'S TRACK AND FIELD 2017 13th MEAC, 2016 No Data, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 No Data

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL  2017 12-18, 2016 16-13, 2015 7-24, 2014 4-27, 2013 11-20, 2012 20-12

WOMEN'S BOWLING 2017 28-68, 2016 45-74, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 2015 No Data

Softball 2018 8-37, 2017 4-34  2016 9-32   2015 14-29  2014 4-36  2013 7-18

Volleyball 2017 16-16  2016 26-6   2015 18-14  2014 20-11  2013 21-11  2012 No Data

Whew that's enough and more than the majority.  I get that y'all have money but from the looks of the above your overall program is as sh!tty as us broke mugs.  :shrug:  So for someone from HU to try to tell me we should drop down and y'all could go either way as a legit D1 bears no merit. :shrug:

"Liars figure but figures don't lie." 

By the looks of it, your budget has no significant impact on your competitiveness except in one non-revenue sport. :shrug:

That is a strong argument you just made. Facts don't lie.  :clap:

Offline punchy

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Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2018, 09:41:31 AM »
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
Alabama A&M should be D1 just as much as any other HBCU at that level.  Our school is not in financial peril of closing because of our sports program.  In fact we are building and growing.  We are about as productive as the state of Alabama will allow us to be.  When you look at overall sustained success in athletics programs there is not one "legit" as you call D1 because HBCU success is cyclic.  So as I said before put down your rock before you break a wall in your glass house.

"I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy."

Now if that statement doesn't sound pretentious I don't know what does.  :shrug: I guess you guys are the one's who drive the Mercedes while living in the projects.  :lol:  So you Black Ivies (I guess that's less than legit Ivy) can keep looking down your jaundice eyes at us lessor HBCUs.  :nod:

For your information and edification when attacked, defense is a common response. :popcorn:

I have to respectfully agree with Que82. NSU has definitely grown! It seems there is always construction going on at SPARTA, and I love it! I think NSU belongs at the FCS level for football,,,,,maybe not JMU or NDSU-SDSU level yet, but we're getting there. Basketball is getting there. We did advance past the first game in the big dance against Missouri once, so,,,,,and our track and field used to help us win the All Sports award a number of years. Baseball is pretty good at NSU, as well as bowling. We're good. I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody would assume that NSU might be better off in D2?  :shrug:
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