Onnidan Fan Forum

Discussion => Politics => Topic started by: Bison66 on October 11, 2012, 02:48:48 PM

Title: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 11, 2012, 02:48:48 PM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology [determined]the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

"The anthropologists and scientists who support such a theory realize its inanity to such an extent that they have resorted to all sorts of conceptual subtleties, construed all kinds of specious arguments into convincing reasons, accepted all types of scholarly ravings as serious probabilities, all in order to make people believe that the ancient Egyptians were White.
 
"Caucasian presumption could not suffer the idea that, in the first flowering of progress, a race Europeans consider radically inferior could produce a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization. Fortunately, light is being shed today on all the basic issues, particularly in the field of Egyptology. Scientists from all the great nations have conducted research in the field with enthusiasm and with a sense of emulation even rivalry, to the greater glory of science. It is becoming impossible, then, to resist the evidence of facts and to remain captive of obsolete theories."-- Antenor Firmin, The Equality of the Human Races, p. 227-228 (2002)

From a review of the book by the Haitian scholar:
Quote
As Fluehr-Lobban points out in her introduction, Firmin’s work was ahead of its time not only in its assertion of racial equality, but also in terms of the ways in which it engaged with art, literature and indeed, “popular culture.” Several of Firmin’s chapters anticipate later theoretical movements of the twentieth century. His discussion of Egypt as the source of European civilization echoes Martin Bernal’s controversial arguments in Black Athena (1987). In a move that presages later postcolonial critiques, he analyses the role played by theological doctrines in “popularizing the theory of race inequality” (Firmin 405), and also explores the repeated casting of Blacks as the Devil in paintings (Ary Scheffer’s The Temptation of Christ, 1856)  and in literature (Victor Hugo’s La Légende des siécles). At several points as I was reading Firmin’s work I had to remind myself that it was written in 1885. Overall I found it a relevant, provocative and fascinating read.
http://classes.yale.edu/03-04/anth500b/projects/project_sites/04_Chattaraj/Introduction.html

This book was first published in 1885 in French.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 12, 2012, 01:22:04 PM
Medicine:

(http://www.shiftyourlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Imhotep.jpg)

Quote
Imhotep was worshipped as a god and healer from approximately 2850 B.C. to 525 B.C., and as a full deity from 525 B.C. to 550 A.D. He lived during the Third Dynasty at the court of King Zoser in Egypt. Imhotep was a known scribe, chief lector, priest, architect, astronomer and magician (medicine and magic were used together in that era). For 3000 years he was worshipped as a god in Greece and Rome. Early Christians worshipped him as the “Prince of Peace.”

When the Egyptians crossed the Mediterranean, becoming the foundation of the Greek culture, Imhotep’s teachings and philosophies were absorbed there. The Greeks equated him with Aesculapius (Hermes). He was regarded as the god of study and in later times took on some of the attributes of Thoth or Tehuti as the scribe of the gods. In the time of Imhotep, healing was considered one of the secret sciences of priestcraft. Candidates aspiring to be trained in the healing tradition underwent severe tests or initiations to prove their worthiness at various stages of their training. Among the ancients, philosophy, science and religion/spirituality were never considered as separate units- they comprised a balanced whole- and this concept was considered integral to healing modalities.

The story of Imhotep disappeared in Greek mythology over time and was forgotten for thousands of years, A legendary figure, Hippocrates, who appeared 2000 years later in 5th century BC, became known as the Father of Medicine.
http://www.shiftyourlife.com/2010/the-future-of-medicine-medical-training-a-return-to-holistic-hermetic-medical-principles/
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 15, 2012, 06:01:48 PM
MATHEMATICS:

Quote
Egyptian Mathematics
Our first knowledge of mankindís use of mathematics beyond mere
counting comes from the Egyptians and Babylonians. Both civilizations developed mathematics that was similar in some ways but
different in others. The mathematics of Egypt, at least what is
known from the papyri, can essentially be called applied arithmetic.
It was practical information communicated via example on how to
solve specific problems....

...Construction projects on a massive scale were routinely carried
out. The logistics of construction require all sorts of mathematics.
You will see several mensuration (measurement) problems, simple
algebra problems, and the methods for computation.
Our sources of Egyptian mathematics are scarce. Indeed, much of
our knowledge of ancient Egyptian mathematics comes not from the
hieroglyphics
3
(carved sacred letters or sacred letters) inscribed on
the hundreds of temples but from two papyri containing collections of mathematical problems with their solutions.
ï The Rhind Mathematical Papyrus named for A.H. Rhind (1833-
1863) who purchased it at Luxor in 1858. Origin: 1650 BCE
but it was written very much earlier. It is 18 feet long and
13 inches wide. It is also called the Ahmes Papyrus after the
scribe that last copied it.
ï The Moscow Mathematical Papyrus purchased by V. S. Golenishchev (d. 1947). Origin: 1700 BC. It is 15 ft long and 3 inches
wide. Two sections of this chapter offer highlights from these
papyri.
http://www.math.tamu.edu/~dallen/masters/egypt_babylon/egypt.pdf
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: MisterIkester on October 15, 2012, 07:50:09 PM
He's made 5 threads today, yet he's afraid to show his face here.

:no:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 16, 2012, 03:03:12 PM
Ikester, as you know already, this thread is not for him.
One cannot use rationality to address someone who has reached conclusions non-rationally.

So, ONWARD:

Note the timeline for Europe's most ancient and vaunted civilizations:

(http://www.rff.com/timeline_greece.png)

...as compared with Kemet (ancient Egypt)
(http://semperfidelis1775.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/ancient20egypt20timeline.jpg?w=645)

We're looking at a difference of THOUSANDS of years in terms of the initiation of civilizations.  Very little evidence of advanced civilization in the remainder (outside Greece) of Europe while civilization was thriving in Kemet.

So, it is understandable - even appropriate - that the early Greeks THEMSELVES would:
- brag that their scholars had studied in Africa/Egypt, sometimes for decades
- give much credit, which they did, for their own civilization to the Black Egyptians,
- say that the Egyptians were the most beautiful and most intelligent people and
- even regard Egypt as the point of origin of the Greek gods, whose names they changed. 

I do not mention this as if it is necessary for "a white man" to verify the facts, but to point out the following...
Over time, successions of later Greeks "forgot" about the African roots of Greek civilization and then - as "race" became a more significant cultural and political construct - there were those Europeans, whose worldview would be dramatically destabilized by the recollection and recognition that African/Black/Kemetan people had been the respected and reknown teachers of the Greeks in medicine, philosophy, science, etc.  That recognition would have made it more difficult to rationalize and justify, for example, chattel slavery of Africans.

PLUS as more recent scientific techniques have been developed, the dates for the timeline for Kemet (ancient Egypt) keep getting pushed back further...and further.  For example, some scientists now believe that the Sphinx is MUCH OLDER than previously thought - maybe by a thousand years or more.

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 19, 2012, 01:11:24 AM
...architecture and monument building.

(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t9/eloisa_marie/Nile%20River%20Cruise%20Jan%209-12%2004/5cbc.jpg)
Quote
AMENHOTEP :2nd architect- like IMHOTEP--was worshipped as a god long after his death, He was born a thousand years after his predeccork he was "Amenhotep son of Hapu". Amenhotep served the king whose name sake he was -Amenhotep III , of the 18 Dynasty , some scholars give him credit for Luxor Temple. Which is one of the most harmonious structure in Egypt. Like IMHOTEP Amenhotep son of Hapu was not only an architect , but a wise man of reputation. He was born of uniportant parents in Delta town of Athribs, and he started his career as a humble military scribe in charge of recruitment. It was evident his superior talent which led him to recognition, he eventually achieve from the King; not on were statues of him erected in the temple of Karnak, but he had the unpreccedented honor of a temple on the west bank of Thebes. Near that of the King, who thought so highly of him.

http://kemetichistoryofafrikabluelotus.blogspot.com/2008/12/egyptian-architecture-advance-3-major.html

Can you say "Greek columns"?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Karnak-Hypostyle3.jpg/300px-Karnak-Hypostyle3.jpg)
The Karnak Temple in Luxor, Egypt

For more than ONE HUNDRED YEARS European scientists and others tried to explain why the people depicted in hundreds upon hundreds of ancient illustrative art works in Egypt were not Black. 
(https://www.egofelix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Dead-Man-Kneeling-Beside-a-Palm-Tree-Drinking.jpg)
They came up with many silly "explanations," but eventually - after the most brutal period of African exploitation had ended - the experts had to admit that Egyptian civilization was a Black African civilization with roots further up (South) the Nile in Nubia.

As the OP asserted, it is impossible to maintain the inferiority of African people while simultaneously admitting that the people who inhabited Kemet were Black, who created an advanced civilization.  Some European "scholars" maintained for generations that when the Greeks referred to Kemet as "The Land of the Blacks" that they were actually referring to the rich black soil along the River Nile.  :lmao: 

Racism and belief in white so-called supremacy will make people think and do stupid things.  History and current events prove that beyond a doubt.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 25, 2012, 09:57:12 PM
PHILOSOPHY & RELIGION

Already addressed on this board in a different context:
http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php/topic,63634.15.html

And...
Quote
Hippocrates, often described as “the father of modern medicine,” learned medicine in Egypt. Herodotus, “the first Greek historian,” wrote:  “Almost all the names of the gods came into Greece from Egypt.”  Professor A. E. Amelineau of France, wrote in 1916, “…the most famous Greek systems, notably those of Plato and Aristotle…originated in Egypt. I fail to see why ancient Greece should reap all the honor for ideas she borrowed from Egypt.”  Diop reminds us that among the two-thirds of Greek scholars who studied in Egypt were Pythagoras, Thales, Solon, Archimedes and Eratosthenes. 
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: EB on October 26, 2012, 11:38:28 AM
I highly recommend that one read about the ancient Egyptians.  They will see how much of our society came from theirs.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 26, 2012, 11:48:31 PM
Indeed, EB, indeed!
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 27, 2012, 03:17:28 PM
Before we move on from RELIGION.
Isn't it interesting that no "world" religion has originated in Europe?

Others were founded by" Europeans" in North America:
Church of Scientology 1954
Church of Christ, Scientist 1879
Church of Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Mormonism) circa 1820

OK, next...........

CALENDAR

And this one is especially deep considering that they figured out a 1,460 year cycle based upon the rise of the star Sirius.
(http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/graphics/egyptian-months.gif)

http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egyptian-calendar.html

Quote


Just as with Geometry, the Egyptians were the exclusive inventors of the calendar,
the very one which...regulates our life today, and about which scientists say “that is the only intelligent calendar that has ever existed in human history”. They invented the 365 day year, breaking it down as follows: 12 months of 30 days, plus 5 days corresponding to the birth of one of the following Egyptian gods (neter): Osiris, Isis, Horus, Seth, and Nephtys. These are the same neter who will give birth to the human race and inaugurate the cycles of historic times: Adam and Eve are only belated Biblical representations of Osiris and Isis.

The year is divided ionto three seasons of four months, the month into three weeks of ten days that do not overlap the months; the day into 24 hours. The Egyptians knew that this calendar year was too short, that was lacking a quarter of a day in order for it to correspond with a complete sidereal revolution. Also, in 4236 B.C. they invented a second astronomical calendar founded precisely on this time lag, this delay, of a quarter of a day per year, in the 365-day calendar year as compared to the sidereal , or astronomical, calendar. The time lag thus accumulated at the end of four years is equal to one day. Instead of adding 1 day every 4 years (a leap year), the Egyptians preferred the masterful solution of following this lag for 1,460 years...

...One gets lost in conjecture in order to figure out how the Egyptians were able to arrive at such a result from protohistory, because it is known with certainty that the sidereal calendar was in use from 4236 B.C. onward. Supposing that a celestial phenomenon as fleeting as the rising of Sirius had accidentally caught the attention of the Egyptians from the 4th Millenium onward, or how they could've guessed at and verified, within a few minutes, its rigorous periodicity, in a time span of 1,460 years, and thus invented a calendar on this basis??  Did they arrive at this result through empirical or theoretical means?
http://cheikhantadiop.com/books-by-cheikh-anta-diop/africa-contributions-calendar.html  {SORRY, THIS IS A DEAD LINK - 2014 }
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on October 27, 2012, 04:04:33 PM
I say its pretty short sighted to say Egyptians werent a white race....They were. They were also a brown race, a yellow, and equally important a black race.

Egypt has always, and especially at the apex of its civilization, been a nation of many different cultures and people. A meeting place of people of many different stocks to come together, trade, learn, and even have children. No single ethnic group can claim total credit for what Egypt was.

Ive spent a lot of time in egypt. My old man was born outside of Kirdasa near the outskirts of Cairo. We often visited family there.



Notice all of their different shades. Outside of me at the bottom(and my sister who you all should be able to tell and is half Abyssinian like me) the rest are almost exclusively of pure Egyptian heritage.

President of Egypt Mr. Morsi.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0e/MohamedMorsiP.jpeg/220px-MohamedMorsiP.jpeg)
He is from the north and has egyptian berber identity

Famous comedian Sa3mir Ghaneem
(http://cdnlive.albawaba.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/KeepAsIs//sites/default/files/im/entertainment_arabic/samir_ghanem.jpg)
An egyptian of Arab stock and is from the river through Cairo

Famous classic egyptian star Suuad Hosni
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Suad_Husni.jpg)
An Egyptian of Mediterranean European stock from Buulaaq.

Even my grandmother
(http://i54.tinypic.com/f9kvbb.jpg)
Egyptian of Nubian stock from Aswan.

Egypt, like Brazil and USA, are made up of many different types of people.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on October 27, 2012, 04:56:50 PM
I say its pretty short sighted to say Egyptians werent a white race....They were. They were also a brown race, a yellow, and equally important a black race.

Egypt has always, and especially at the apex of its civilization, been a nation of many different cultures and people. A meeting place of people of many different stocks to come together, trade, learn, and even have children. No single ethnic group can claim total credit for what Egypt was.

Ive spent a lot of time in egypt. My old man was born outside of Kirdasa near the outskirts of Cairo. We often visited family there.

This was me and my sister with cousins last time we visited Cairo a couple of years back
(http://i51.tinypic.com/x22nhs.jpg)

Notice all of their different shades. Outside of me at the bottom(and my sister who you all should be able to tell and is half Abyssinian like me) the rest are almost exclusively of pure Egyptian heritage.

President of Egypt Mr. Morsi.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0e/MohamedMorsiP.jpeg/220px-MohamedMorsiP.jpeg)
He is from the north and has egyptian berber identity

Famous comedian Sa3mir Ghaneem
(http://cdnlive.albawaba.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/KeepAsIs//sites/default/files/im/entertainment_arabic/samir_ghanem.jpg)
An egyptian of Arab stock and is from the river through Cairo

Famous classic egyptian star Suuad Hosni
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Suad_Husni.jpg)
An Egyptian of Mediterranean European stock from Buulaaq.

Even my grandmother
(http://i54.tinypic.com/f9kvbb.jpg)
Egyptian of Nubian stock from Aswan.

Egypt, like Brazil and USA, are made up of many different types of people.

I agree with some of what you said Neymar but the Egypt today isnt nothing like the Egypt of back in it's glory days.
Egypt eventually became a melting pot that brought all types of people but the Europeans came way later bro. Sorry

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on October 27, 2012, 05:07:00 PM
I say its pretty short sighted to say Egyptians werent a white race....They were. They were also a brown race, a yellow, and equally important a black race.

Egypt has always, and especially at the apex of its civilization, been a nation of many different cultures and people. A meeting place of people of many different stocks to come together, trade, learn, and even have children. No single ethnic group can claim total credit for what Egypt was.

Ive spent a lot of time in egypt. My old man was born outside of Kirdasa near the outskirts of Cairo. We often visited family there.

This was me and my sister with cousins last time we visited Cairo a couple of years back
(http://i51.tinypic.com/x22nhs.jpg)

Notice all of their different shades. Outside of me at the bottom(and my sister who you all should be able to tell and is half Abyssinian like me) the rest are almost exclusively of pure Egyptian heritage.

President of Egypt Mr. Morsi.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0e/MohamedMorsiP.jpeg/220px-MohamedMorsiP.jpeg)
He is from the north and has egyptian berber identity

Famous comedian Sa3mir Ghaneem
(http://cdnlive.albawaba.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/KeepAsIs//sites/default/files/im/entertainment_arabic/samir_ghanem.jpg)
An egyptian of Arab stock and is from the river through Cairo

Famous classic egyptian star Suuad Hosni
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Suad_Husni.jpg)
An Egyptian of Mediterranean European stock from Buulaaq.

Even my grandmother
(http://i54.tinypic.com/f9kvbb.jpg)
Egyptian of Nubian stock from Aswan.

Egypt, like Brazil and USA, are made up of many different types of people.

I agree with some of what you said Neymar but the Egypt today isnt nothing like the Egypt of back in it's glory days.
Egypt eventually became a melting pot that brought all types of people but the Europeans came way later bro. Sorry



Since there was an Egypt there was a Europe via what would later become Greece(Be it the Ptolemaic dynasty, The Achaemenid empire, or even the Neo Babylonian empire.). These people were caucasian, and they did come across to Egypt and intermingle with them.

As long as there was an Egypt as we knew, there were white people there. Whether or not they were ruling(which they werent until the ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt) is a different story....but they were always there as we knew it. Mongols too.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on October 27, 2012, 05:29:22 PM

Since there was an Egypt there was a Europe via what would later become Greece(Be it the Ptolemaic dynasty, The Achaemenid empire, or even the Neo Babylonian empire.). These people were caucasian, and they did come across to Egypt and intermingle with them.

As long as there was an Egypt as we knew, there were white people there. Whether or not they were ruling(which they werent until the ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt) is a different story....but they were always there as we knew it. Mongols too.

Of course white folks eventually came to egypt and yes they eventually took over when the Greeks showed up.
I doubt it very serious they were there during the early days and during the great dynasty.
Some of you guys give white folks toooo much created  :no:

Let me ask you this Neymar.

Do you think white people was in China during the Ming Dynasty?
Do you think white people was in Mexico during the Mayans Dynasty?

You are cool with me man. I just dont agree with your statement fully

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 27, 2012, 06:42:36 PM
Neymar,
Thanks for your comments, but....

Pharoah is correct.

Showing pictures of current-day Egyptians to address 6,000 years ago is like showing photos of current day "Americans" to dispute the claim that Native/Indigenous people built the pyramids of Mexico.  After what you asserted re the mixing of peoples, how can you seriously say "pure Egyptian heritage"?  Egypt is a nation, not a race.  But, if you like, we can trade "anecdotal" info:  I met a large "pure Black" man, who was driving a tow truck in Washington, DC.  Being a Pan-Africanist, I asked him where he was from.  He was from the southern part of Egypt and his family had been displaced when the dam was built and they had relocated to Cairo.

The point that the Kemetans (Ancient Egyptians) were Black is proven scientifically beyond dispute by Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop and other scholars.
May I suggest reading his definitive work on the subject?
The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51sAUmJH7zL._SX35_.jpg)
If you have not read it, you can "peek" inside here:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/1556520727/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Now.....You may argue about whether a shade of color makes a difference, but then you would be declaring many modern day African-Americans throughout the Western Hemisphere as non-Black.  My simple test is always whether a person sitting next to Rosa Parks on the bus would have also been arrested also.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTl3j_AKlAklgjP2WCuUx61okc39DDIbeYUrh2DkI7MSKkKUtVwrQ)

But more to the point, just as Greece borrowed heavily from Kemet, Egypt was the cultural child of Nubia which was located in modern day Sudan.  Any Europeans there 6,000 or 8,000 years ago?  I doubt it, but the ancestors of the tow truck driver were there!!!
http://nap.mojanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/NAP_lo-112x110.jpg

A map of the region as it existed in ancient times shows that the birth of civilization was well beyond the reach - in time and distance - of those on the other side of the Mediterranean.
(http://nap.mojanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/nubamap1.jpg)

As of 7,000 years ago...
Quote
By the middle of the 5th millennium BC, Nubia's Neolithic peoples were full participants in the "agricultural revolution," living a settled lifestyle with domesticated plants and animals. Rock art of cattle and herdsmen found during our expedition suggests the presence of a cattle cult like those found in the Sudan and other parts of Africa today.
http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/stsmith/research/nubia_history.html

And the research in Nubia continues: http://nap.mojanet.com/
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on October 27, 2012, 07:09:39 PM
Neymar,
Thanks for your comments, but....

Pharoah is correct.

Showing pictures of current-day Egyptians to address 6,000 years ago is like showing photos of current day "Americans" to dispute the claim that Native/Indigenous people built the pyramids of Mexico.  After what you asserted re the mixing of peoples, how can you seriously say "pure Egyptian heritage"?  Egypt is a nation, not a race.  But, if you like, we can trade "anecdotal" info:  I met a large "pure Black" man, who was driving a tow truck in Washington, DC.  Being a Pan-Africanist, I asked him where he was from.  He was from the southern part of Egypt and his family had been displaced when the dam was built and they had relocated to Cairo.

The point that the Kemetans (Ancient Egyptians) were Black is proven scientifically beyond dispute by Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop and other scholars.
May I suggest reading his definitive work on the subject?
The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51sAUmJH7zL._SX35_.jpg)
If you have not read it, you can "peek" inside here:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/1556520727/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Now.....You may argue about whether a shade of color makes a difference, but then you would be declaring many modern day African-Americans throughout the Western Hemisphere as non-Black.  My simple test is always whether a person sitting next to Rosa Parks on the bus would have also been arrested also.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTl3j_AKlAklgjP2WCuUx61okc39DDIbeYUrh2DkI7MSKkKUtVwrQ)

But more to the point, just as Greece borrowed heavily from Kemet, Egypt was the cultural child of Nubia which was located in modern day Sudan.  Any Europeans there 6,000 or 8,000 years ago?  I doubt it, but the ancestors of the tow truck driver were there!!!
http://nap.mojanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/NAP_lo-112x110.jpg

A map of the region as it existed in ancient times shows that the birth of civilization was well beyond the reach - in time and distance - of those on the other side of the Mediterranean.
(http://nap.mojanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/nubamap1.jpg)

As of 7,000 years ago...
Quote
By the middle of the 5th millennium BC, Nubia's Neolithic peoples were full participants in the "agricultural revolution," living a settled lifestyle with domesticated plants and animals. Rock art of cattle and herdsmen found during our expedition suggests the presence of a cattle cult like those found in the Sudan and other parts of Africa today.
http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/stsmith/research/nubia_history.html

And the research in Nubia continues: http://nap.mojanet.com/
O0


Thanks Bison  :nod:
The book that you mentioned below is very good. I have this book in my collection too :nod:
The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality


Here is another good one and the author is a WHITE MAN  :o
I have the book and DVD

http://www.amazon.com/Return-Glory-Powerful-Stirring-Black/dp/0768430100
or
http://www.returntoglory.org/book.htm
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 27, 2012, 07:10:58 PM
Neymar,

It should also interest you to know that Diop cites the ancient Ethiopians' claim of parentage of the ancient Egyptians to prove that they were Black.

Forgot to mention that.

But why can't we trust the contemporary accounts of the ancient Greeks themselves?  So many of them went to study in Egypt that they would know for sure.  right?  Herodotus made it clear on more than one occasion that the Egyptians were "black-skinned" and had "wooly hair."

Really and truly, this is a settled issue for anyone who has delved into the subject.

We are waaaaaay past racist excuses, like.  "The figures in the temples are Black because they didn't have paint the right color to depict them as beige."   :lmao:

And, of course, within mere inches or feet of those Black figures are examples of many other colors which could have been used and, to boot, other races ARE depicted in other colors on the tomb walls - oftentimes as captives or visitors.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on October 27, 2012, 08:07:09 PM

 "The figures in the temples are Black because they didn't have paint the right color to depict them as beige."   :lmao:

Just crazy man......Oh here is one that I've heard.
I think it was in the National Geo magazine.
The faces on the wooden sculptures appears to be dark because the wood has
darken over thousands of years....................REALLY????

:lmao:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 27, 2012, 08:14:17 PM
Pharoah,

Yep.    :lmao: :lmao:
That's a good one.

How about the European scholars who couldn't admit that many of the most revered Madonna and Child depictions IN EUROPE were Black - including the one in the Polish church that the previous Pope from Poland went to pray.

They claimed that smoke from a long-ago fire had darkened the face and hands - BUT MIRACULOUSLY, the other parts had not been affected!!!

Racism will make you look like a fool!!!!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 27, 2012, 08:22:46 PM
Back to RELIGION for a moment.

Here, my intention is not to offend anyone. 
I do not subscribe to the "tone" of some of this, but I encourage everyone to consider the evidence of the "origins" of stories we all learned in Sunday School and the "origins" of symbols used in the Christian faith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CWBKRWIg0&feature=related

I do say that it is impossible to say with a straight face that the images of Biblical personages projected by Christian churches for many centuries accurately reflect the anthropological realities of the region where the events occurred.  IMO it is also ridiculous to argue that the systematic whitening of those persons is an innocent coincidence.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 27, 2012, 08:49:03 PM

Thanks Bison  :nod:
The book that you mentioned below is very good. I have this book in my collection too :nod:
The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality


Here is another good one and the author is a WHITE MAN  :o
I have the book and DVD

http://www.amazon.com/Return-Glory-Powerful-Stirring-Black/dp/0768430100
or
http://www.returntoglory.org/book.htm

Pharoah,

Thanks for sharing that book.  I was not familiar with it and will check it out - at least in part.

RE: African/Black people in the "West" (hard to avoid that eurocentric reference, ain't it?), have you read the late Van Sertima's "They Came Before Columbus"?

That was a real eye-opener not only to unknown (to me) history but, for me, an insight into how Euro scientists were quite prepared to ignore or bury data that contradicted the accepted notion that only a European could have sailed the Atlantic to the lands of the Caribs and relatives of the Aztecs in Vera Cruz, Mexico.

Y'all, if you have not checked out this book, you are truly missing a masterpiece of inter-disciplinary scholarship.  Van Sertima - who I had the honor of greeting at the old Howard Inn hotel in DC years ago - uses anthropology, linguistics, metallurgy, astronomy, architecture, botany. biology and more to make an indisputable case that Africans sailed to the Americas looooong before Cristobal Colon (Columbus in Spanish).
http://www.amazon.com/They-Came-Before-Columbus-Presence/dp/0394402456

This video of Van Sertima is long, but well worth your time:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CWBKRWIg0&feature=related
If you watch the first 8 minutes AFTER the introduction, I promise that you (with an obvious exception) will want to hear the rest.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on October 27, 2012, 09:07:15 PM
Y'all, if you have not checked out this book, you are truly missing a masterpiece of inter-disciplinary scholarship.  Van Sertima - who I had the honor of greeting at the old Howard Inn hotel in DC years ago - uses anthropology, linguistics, metallurgy, astronomy, architecture, botany. biology and more to make an indisputable case that Africans sailed to the Americas looooong before Cristobal Colon (Columbus in Spanish).
http://www.amazon.com/They-Came-Before-Columbus-Presence/dp/0394402456

I got that one too but I havent finish reading it :nod:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on October 28, 2012, 07:59:57 AM

Since there was an Egypt there was a Europe via what would later become Greece(Be it the Ptolemaic dynasty, The Achaemenid empire, or even the Neo Babylonian empire.). These people were caucasian, and they did come across to Egypt and intermingle with them.

As long as there was an Egypt as we knew, there were white people there. Whether or not they were ruling(which they werent until the ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt) is a different story....but they were always there as we knew it. Mongols too.

Of course white folks eventually came to egypt and yes they eventually took over when the Greeks showed up.
I doubt it very serious they were there during the early days and during the great dynasty.
Some of you guys give white folks toooo much created  :no:

Let me ask you this Neymar.

Do you think white people was in China during the Ming Dynasty?
Do you think white people was in Mexico during the Mayans Dynasty?

You are cool with me man. I just dont agree with your statement fully



Its not about giving white folks credit. Its about acknowledging the fact that egypt at its greatest moments were always crossroads of different cultures and people through trade.

China during the ming dynasty was full of many different ethnic groups. The whites were not one of them.

The same can be said for the Mayans.

Comparing those to Egypt is like literally comparing apples to oranges.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on October 28, 2012, 08:03:14 AM
Neymar,
Thanks for your comments, but....

Pharoah is correct.

Showing pictures of current-day Egyptians to address 6,000 years ago is like showing photos of current day "Americans" to dispute the claim that Native/Indigenous people built the pyramids of Mexico.  After what you asserted re the mixing of peoples, how can you seriously say "pure Egyptian heritage"?  Egypt is a nation, not a race.  But, if you like, we can trade "anecdotal" info:  I met a large "pure Black" man, who was driving a tow truck in Washington, DC.  Being a Pan-Africanist, I asked him where he was from.  He was from the southern part of Egypt and his family had been displaced when the dam was built and they had relocated to Cairo.

The point that the Kemetans (Ancient Egyptians) were Black is proven scientifically beyond dispute by Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop and other scholars.
May I suggest reading his definitive work on the subject?
The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51sAUmJH7zL._SX35_.jpg)
If you have not read it, you can "peek" inside here:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/1556520727/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Now.....You may argue about whether a shade of color makes a difference, but then you would be declaring many modern day African-Americans throughout the Western Hemisphere as non-Black.  My simple test is always whether a person sitting next to Rosa Parks on the bus would have also been arrested also.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTl3j_AKlAklgjP2WCuUx61okc39DDIbeYUrh2DkI7MSKkKUtVwrQ)

But more to the point, just as Greece borrowed heavily from Kemet, Egypt was the cultural child of Nubia which was located in modern day Sudan.  Any Europeans there 6,000 or 8,000 years ago?  I doubt it, but the ancestors of the tow truck driver were there!!!
http://nap.mojanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/NAP_lo-112x110.jpg

A map of the region as it existed in ancient times shows that the birth of civilization was well beyond the reach - in time and distance - of those on the other side of the Mediterranean.
(http://nap.mojanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/nubamap1.jpg)

As of 7,000 years ago...
Quote
By the middle of the 5th millennium BC, Nubia's Neolithic peoples were full participants in the "agricultural revolution," living a settled lifestyle with domesticated plants and animals. Rock art of cattle and herdsmen found during our expedition suggests the presence of a cattle cult like those found in the Sudan and other parts of Africa today.
http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/stsmith/research/nubia_history.html

And the research in Nubia continues: http://nap.mojanet.com/
O0


If you assert that Egypt is a nation, and not a race, then I dont see what the issue is in saying that they are made of many different people due to trade.

Most Modern day descendants of slaves in the western hemisphere arent black in the traditional sense either. They have worldviews, heritage, and in many cases even hair that separates them from their origins on the gold coast.

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on October 28, 2012, 08:09:16 AM
Neymar,

It should also interest you to know that Diop cites the ancient Ethiopians' claim of parentage of the ancient Egyptians to prove that they were Black.

Forgot to mention that.

But why can't we trust the contemporary accounts of the ancient Greeks themselves?  So many of them went to study in Egypt that they would know for sure.  right?  Herodotus made it clear on more than one occasion that the Egyptians were "black-skinned" and had "wooly hair."

Really and truly, this is a settled issue for anyone who has delved into the subject.

We are waaaaaay past racist excuses, like.  "The figures in the temples are Black because they didn't have paint the right color to depict them as beige."   :lmao:

And, of course, within mere inches or feet of those Black figures are examples of many other colors which could have been used and, to boot, other races ARE depicted in other colors on the tomb walls - oftentimes as captives or visitors.
O0

Ancient Ethiopians also claimed(at least in my ethnic "tribe") that Animals that came around during a funeral was the spirit of the person that just died...I wouldnt be too quick to things my ancestors said a long time ago :lol:

Greeks called anybody darker than them black....and wooly hair is just as prevalent in Berberized peoples as black. The Roman scribe Tacitus even called the native Britons black when he went there. Old Britannia getting the royal treatment by the school African studies department now?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on October 28, 2012, 08:24:18 AM
I also must submit that I dont like to be portrayed as defending whites in ths thread. ;D


I am as afrocentric as they come, but Egypt at its highest was during trade, and miscegenation is the basic result of this. They were filled with many different people, and still are today. One race trying to claim all its achievements are shortsighted at best, and dangerous at worst. It is no different than a white nationalist trying to claim today that USA is a white nation, and that all of its achievements are only that of white people.


Egypt was a crossroads. No love for the white man in saying that ;)
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: soflorattler on October 28, 2012, 08:32:01 AM
I also must submit that I dont like to be portrayed as defending whites in ths thread. ;D


I am as afrocentric as they come, but Egypt at its highest was during trade, and miscegenation is the basic result of this. They were filled with many different people, and still are today. One race trying to claim all its achievements are shortsighted at best, and dangerous at worst. It is no different than a white nationalist trying to claim today that USA is a white nation, and that all of its achievements are only that of white people.


Egypt was a crossroads. No love for the white man in saying that ;)

There was an Egypt before it became a "crossroads"....
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 28, 2012, 11:13:31 AM
Neymar,

It should also interest you to know that Diop cites the ancient Ethiopians' claim of parentage of the ancient Egyptians to prove that they were Black.

Forgot to mention that.

But why can't we trust the contemporary accounts of the ancient Greeks themselves?  So many of them went to study in Egypt that they would know for sure.  right?  Herodotus made it clear on more than one occasion that the Egyptians were "black-skinned" and had "wooly hair."

Really and truly, this is a settled issue for anyone who has delved into the subject.

We are waaaaaay past racist excuses, like.  "The figures in the temples are Black because they didn't have paint the right color to depict them as beige."   :lmao:

And, of course, within mere inches or feet of those Black figures are examples of many other colors which could have been used and, to boot, other races ARE depicted in other colors on the tomb walls - oftentimes as captives or visitors.
O0

Ancient Ethiopians also claimed(at least in my ethnic "tribe") that Animals that came around during a funeral was the spirit of the person that just died...I wouldnt be too quick to things my ancestors said a long time ago :lol:

Greeks called anybody darker than them black....and wooly hair is just as prevalent in Berberized peoples as black. The Roman scribe Tacitus even called the native Britons black when he went there. Old Britannia getting the royal treatment by the school African studies department now?

It's one thing to say that there were other people in an area during the development of a great civilization - whether it is China or Kemet.  It is quite another to say that the folks responsible for the Ming Dynasty were not Asian and yet..........that is what you seem to be saying about Kemet.

Am I mistaken about your point?

In another post,
Quote
Most Modern day descendants of slaves in the western hemisphere arent black in the traditional sense either. They have worldviews, heritage, and in many cases even hair that separates them from their origins on the gold coast.

you say what I thought you were thinking and alluded to:  Some modern day Blacks 'are not really, really Black.' 

That will come as a surprise to many brown-skinned or light-skinned Brothers and Sister who historically suffered discrimination, segregation and racist violence because they WERE Black.  Race is, as you know, a social construct (altho with a biological base) and though it varies in style and application in various locations and sub-cultures, there is enough uniformity and cultural connectedness to include the impact of gene dilution, different tastes in food and a variety of political viewpoints and religious beliefs. 

There are huge differences between me (born and raised in NYC), you and a rural Zulu, also, but are we three not all Africans or at least Black?

And where did the Berbers get wooly hair from?  But the larger point is that Herodotus said both "black-skinned" and wooly.  And....Much more to the point, the temple and tomb walls tell the story as told by the Kemetans themselves.

On the point about "sole credit", at the end of the Van Sertima video, he states the case well.  He, nor I, is trying to diminish the contribution of anyone.  He is, however, correcting the record which has for centuries denied the contribution of Black people.  Greece was a crossroads, too.  But the Greeks WENT TO AFRICA to study.

I'm not real familiar with Tacitus, the Roman of the 1st Centrury.  Can you direct me to his statement about Brits being Black?  I looked here, but no luck: 
http://resourcesforhistory.com/celtic_druids.htm  ("black-robed")

Elsewhere, I do see Tacitus' physical description of some Brits:
Quote
Their physical characteristics are various, and from these conclusions may be drawn. The red hair and large limbs of the inhabitants of Caledonia point clearly to a German origin. The dark complexion of the Silures, their usually curly hair, and the fact that Spain is the opposite shore to them, are an evidence that Iberians of a former date crossed over and occupied these parts. Those who are nearest to the Gauls are also like them, either from the permanent influence of original descent, or, because in countries which run out so far to meet each other, climate has produced similar physical qualities.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/tac/ag01010.htm
Is that what you are referring to?

I recall that Romans thought the Brits were too stupid to be slaves.  But calling them Black - never heard of that.  UNLESS they ran into the ancestors of the "Black Irish" - http://www.ireland-information.com/articles/blackirish.htm  ;D  ;D

But in any case, that is hardly a basis to contradict Herodotus from centuries before, when race, particularly Blackness, had not yet become a major factor in justifying exploitation.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on October 28, 2012, 11:46:09 AM
I also must submit that I dont like to be portrayed as defending whites in ths thread. ;D


I am as afrocentric as they come, but Egypt at its highest was during trade, and miscegenation is the basic result of this. They were filled with many different people, and still are today. One race trying to claim all its achievements are shortsighted at best, and dangerous at worst. It is no different than a white nationalist trying to claim today that USA is a white nation, and that all of its achievements are only that of white people.


Egypt was a crossroads. No love for the white man in saying that ;)

 :no: You cant have it both ways Neymar
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 28, 2012, 01:01:27 PM
I also must submit that I dont like to be portrayed as defending whites in ths thread. ;D


I am as afrocentric as they come, but Egypt at its highest was during trade, and miscegenation is the basic result of this. They were filled with many different people, and still are today. One race trying to claim all its achievements are shortsighted at best, and dangerous at worst. It is no different than a white nationalist trying to claim today that USA is a white nation, and that all of its achievements are only that of white people.


Egypt was a crossroads. No love for the white man in saying that ;)

There was an Egypt before it became a "crossroads"....

SoFlo,

YES! That seems to be the case in the sense that Neymar seems to be using it:  As in Alexandria and Cairo in the far north.  But the Upper Kingdom (in the South and up the Nile) preceded the movement of the Kemetan civilization down the Nile toward the Mediterranean.  Lower and Upper (southern) Nubia were HQ.
(http://nap.mojanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/nubamap1.jpg)

Was Abu Simbel in an area of crossroads?  Maybe, but I am doubtful.  Even the Valley of the Kings is far from the coast.
(http://)

But Neymar has not specified the period of "greatness" that he is referencing.  Perhaps he will now.

Meanwhile, I wonder if this guy is Black enough.
(http://www.kemetway.com/home/img/khufu1.jpg)

If not, why can we not take the word of the Kemetans THEMSELVES.  Image links are disabled on this page, but scroll down to the image on the right side depicting 4 types:  Kemetans, Libyans (Arabs), Nubians and Semites.
http://www.kemetway.com/Digest/Content/Nubia.html
This site is produced by some folks I know in DC.
Also from that site:
Quote
In spite of the claims of earlier beginnings it was not until the 5th century BC that the Greek state is fully established, prior to said time there were a conglomerate of cities and towns of sworn allegiance to one fraternity or another. During the forth century Greeks, and those from their conquered territories began to matriculate in Kemet in search of a better lot in life. All of them who visited noted the race and similarities of both the Kemetians (Egyptians) and the Nubians, the only distinctions drawn were in complexion, dress, and dialect. Without recounting each visitors comments suffice it to consult the books by Dr. William Leo Hansberry: Africa and Africans As Seen By Classical Writers, and the books by Dr. Martin Bernal: Black Athena (3vols). As pointed out in their works not one of the ancient writers mentions seeing a White Kemetian (Eyptian).

Neymar, are we really, actually debating whether the Kemetans were Black?
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 30, 2012, 01:37:34 AM
Hey y'all,

I commend for your reading, the Intro to Diop's Civilization or Barbarism: An Authentic Anthropology.
You can check it out here (First Pages):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1556520484/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=unitblacamer-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1556520484

It is brief and it quickly summarizes the contents of the book - sort of a reader's guide.

Relevant to recent posts here:  Diop makes clear his objectives and clarifies what he is NOT claiming - in order to offset the Strawman Arguments of his critics.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 30, 2012, 09:55:39 PM
Neymar,

It should also interest you to know that Diop cites the ancient Ethiopians' claim of parentage of the ancient Egyptians to prove that they were Black.

Forgot to mention that.

But why can't we trust the contemporary accounts of the ancient Greeks themselves?  So many of them went to study in Egypt that they would know for sure.  right?  Herodotus made it clear on more than one occasion that the Egyptians were "black-skinned" and had "wooly hair."

Really and truly, this is a settled issue for anyone who has delved into the subject.

We are waaaaaay past racist excuses, like.  "The figures in the temples are Black because they didn't have paint the right color to depict them as beige."   :lmao:

And, of course, within mere inches or feet of those Black figures are examples of many other colors which could have been used and, to boot, other races ARE depicted in other colors on the tomb walls - oftentimes as captives or visitors.
O0

Ancient Ethiopians also claimed(at least in my ethnic "tribe") that Animals that came around during a funeral was the spirit of the person that just died...I wouldnt be too quick to things my ancestors said a long time ago :lol:

Greeks called anybody darker than them black....and wooly hair is just as prevalent in Berberized peoples as black. The Roman scribe Tacitus even called the native Britons black when he went there. Old Britannia getting the royal treatment by the school African studies department now?

Neymar,

When I referred to Ancient Ethiopians, here is what I had in mind:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FPK4J2PGL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
See the top of p. 7 of the Intro
http://www.amazon.com/Africans-Classical-Writers-African-Notebook/dp/0882580892


And All:
The "objective" adjudicators of this issue might be the ancient Greeks going back to Homer.

The ancient Greeks apparently applied the appellation "Ethiopia" to the Black people of much of northeast Africa and southwestern Asia, too. 

There is no lack of scholarly work on the subject:
http://www.kemetway.com/guide.html

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 01, 2012, 12:06:44 PM
(http://www.kemetway.com/Img/photos/banner/race2.jpg)

Experts say the man on the left is a Kemetan (Ancient Egyptian) and the third from the left is a Nubian.

Pharoah, that palette of colors looks pretty varied and colorful to me.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on November 01, 2012, 01:59:53 PM
 :popcorn:
I'm running low on popcorn  :lol:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 03, 2012, 02:10:28 AM
The more recent emergence of Afrocentric scholarship is really an echo and continuation of earlier work by pioneering scholars like Hansberry (Go Bison!  Altho he was hounded by the Negro scholars of his day at HU.) and the inimitable George G.M. James who wrote "STOLEN LEGACY" in 1954 - not to mention the Haitian scholar in the OP who wrote in the 19th Century.

In which Mr. James demonstrates, as he titles his first chapter, "Greek Philosophy is Stolen Egyptian Philosophy."
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MDKF8CXXL._SL110_.jpg)
It is NOT an easy read, but even the casual reader skimming the first few pages here will be enlightened.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0865433623?tag=internetsacredte&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=am1&creativeASIN=0865433623&adid=1HAEE684269CAMJMA5P7&&ref-refURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sacred-texts.com%2Fafr%2Fstle%2Findex.htm

You can read most of the book right here (with the original typos):
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/stle/index.htm

I like the new cover, also:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41kFaeueVtL._SL160_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-dp,TopRight,12,-18_SH30_OU01_AA115_.jpg)

In many instances, James raises questions that had been ignored or pushed aside by most previous scholars re: the origins and education of the Greek philosophers who were accorded the credit for what they had "borrowed."  But he also lays the foundation for further scholarship which has backed up his assertions.

For the purposes of THIS thread, this excerpt is of special relevance:
Quote
Just as in our modern times, countries like the United States, England, and France are attracting students from all parts of the world, on account of their leadership in culture; so was it in ancient times, Egypt was supreme in the leadership of civilization, and students from all parts, flocked to that land, seeking admission into her mysteries or wisdom system.

The immigration of Greeks to Egypt for the purpose of their education, began as a result of the Persian invasion (525 B.C.), and continued until the Greeks gained possession of that land and access to the Royal Library, through the conquest of Alexander the Great. Alexandria was converted into a Greek city, a centre of research and the capital of the newly created Greek empire, under the rule of Ptolemies. Egyptian culture survived and flourished, under the name and control of the Greeks, until the edicts of Theodosius in the 4th century A.D., and that of Justinian in the 6th century A.D., which closed the Mystery Temples and Schools, as elsewhere mentioned. (Ancient Egypt by John Kendrick Bk. II p. 55; Sandford's Mediterranean World p. 562; 570).

Concerning the fact that Egypt was the greatest education centre of the ancient world which was also visited by the Greeks, reference must again be made to Plato in the Timaeus who tells us that Greek aspirants to wisdom visited Egypt for initiation, and that the priests of Sais used to refer to them as children in the Mysteries.

More later.
O0
330
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 11, 2012, 12:07:59 PM
There are a few people, for a variety of reasons and based on a variety of theories, who maintain that Barack Obama, our newly re-elected President (Just couldn't resist!) is NOT Black and, instead, that he is bi-racial or half-white.

Some maintain, citing science, that there is no such thing as "race" - usually when denying Black achievements or denying racism.  Yes, DNA reveals that there is very little difference between people, but..  

Of course, IMO these are a dodge, for whatever reason, to ignore the obvious.  Science also shows only slight differences between species of animals, but they can still be differentiated.

Most people realize that race is a human social construct subject to various definitions in different cultural settings.  But, by appearance, culture and social experience we can discern differences that in modern times we refer to as "race."

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtkrnkB_yFOBuEmWULF_zGcROyeb91ts1_s5i4DjYbEUBtOYdxrg)

I mention Obama in THIS thread simply to make the point that for a variety of reasons, SOME scholars ignored obvious evidence & consciously and maliciously misinterpreted information to maintain the fiction that the Kemetans were not African and were not Black.

One of those reasons is what Molefi Asante calls, "the legacy of disbelief" that Blacks/African could NOT POSSIBLY have achieved what they did in ancient times.  Often IMO that disbelief has its root, branch and flower in overt or covert racism.

Van Sertima, in another context, recounts a conversation with a prominent archaeologist in which the white scholar, seeming to fear for his reputation, told him that he would identify as African some centuries-old skeletal remains found on the Pacific coast of South (or Central?) American IF THEY HAD BEEN DISCOVERED ANYWHERE ELSE!!!!  In other words, the bones were liars!!!!

One Egyptologist, Arthur Weigall, incredulously referred to ancient times as "that incredible epoch of ni%%er domination."
(http://www.osirisnet.net/dieux/maat/photo/Kyky_27v.jpg)

Here is a collection of wide-ranging statements, including that one, about the racial identity of the Kemetans:
http://www.nubianet.org/about/about_interpret3.html

Tell our children:  "Don't boo, learn!"   ;D
O0  417
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 23, 2012, 11:26:50 AM
Yesterday morning, Mrs. Bison66 and I went to the Arauz Anthropology Museum in Panama City to see the "King Tut" exhibit.
http://www.laestrella.com.pa/online/impreso/2012/10/03/una-cita-con-tutankhamun.asp

As Carter said when he opened the tomb, "AMAZING THINGS!!"

The young guide was well-informed and provided good - though not in depth - information.  A group of school children had just gone through ahead of us.

The enormity and longevity of the Kemetan civilization is what is most impressive.

Ramses was a baaaad Brother!!!

IS THERE ANOTHER CIVILIZATION begun in antiquity THAT LASTED AS LONG?
China, perhaps?

Had to buy an expensive coffee mug to add to my collection (from our travels) because it was made in Egypt, NOT China!!!
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 25, 2012, 02:22:05 PM
Of course, the influence of the philosophy, religious beliefs, technology, etc of the Kemetans (ancient Egyptians) was not limited to the Greeks, who THEMSELVES acknowledged that they:
- renamed the Kemetan gods,
- were STUDENTS of many subjects for DECADES in Kemet and
- expressed their boundless admiration for the Blacks across the sea.

Those early Greeks are NOT to be held accountable for their descendants' invasion of Egypt, the burning of some of the evidence of Kemetan GREATNESS at the Library of "Alexandria", OR the conscious and malicious theft of the intellectual property of their ancient teachers!!

OK!....end of tangent and back on topic:
Some of the religious beliefs, myths (or supernatural occurrences, depending upon one's perspective) of the Kemetans found their way into the beliefs and traditions of Christianity and Islam and perhaps Judaism, too.[/b]

NOTE:  My intention here is NOT to challenge/question anyone's religious beliefs or faith.  The study of history need NOT be a reason for friction or conflict based upon faith-based perspectives.
The recounting of history is ALWAYS a struggle between various perspectives (religious, economic, nationalistic, racial and otherwise).  The victors write the (mostly accepted) history, but that doesn't mean it is complete or accurate.

The current Afrocentric movement and THIS thread are devoted to reclaiming the "Stolen Legacy" of Black people by Europeans for their own glorification and to deny the achievements of Blacks - partially to justify treating Blacks as sub-humans.  THAT is the critical importance of this work.

So........
In an discussion of whether or not Jesus of Nazareth was in actuality a Black man (NO ONE really believes, Do they?, that he had blond hair and blue eyes as European artists depicted him many centuries after his death), we discover much:

Quote
MAAT: Okay, just who was Jesus?

Geoghagen: That is a very difficult question to answer, for Jesus was and still is many things to many people. To Christians he is a part of the Godhead, the Son of God, the Son of Man, the Prince of Peace, the Word made flesh, the messiah of Jewish expectations. Hence, through his trials, sufferings, temptations, death and resurrection, He provides for the remission of sins, redemption and life eternal for those who follow his teachings and accept him as their personal savior.

To me, he is one of the world's 16 crucified saviors -- the last of them, I might add - whose lives fit an almost identical pattern from the time of Horus in 4100 B.C. (according to the most ancient beliefs, he was the first crucified savior) to the time of Judas Christas (Christ the anointed) in the pre-Christian era. In essence, the life that Jesus purportedly led, the activities in which he engaged, his teachings, his trials and sufferings and eventual death and resurrection, are identical* to those of Horus and Osiris (two ancient Egyptian gods) and the other 14 crucified saviors. This point of view or revelation, though potentially shocking to the mass of believers, is nevertheless common knowledge to scholars.

So Jesus and the belief system that he represents are thus a reappearance of one of the most beautiful ideas of the ancient black Africans of Ta-Merry - now called Egypt - which represented the eternal Father by the ever- coming Son, as in the Child Horus. This was the child of a mother who was the eternal virgin. The doctrines of the Incarnation, i.e., the word made flesh: the virgin birth, the resurrection, the Father-God who is identical to his own son and other doctrines (believed to be specifically Christian) were Egyptian long before there was even the concept of Adam and Eve, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

MAAT: Are you saying that Christianity as a religion had its origins in ancient Egypt?

Geoghagen: Yes. In addition to what I have just stated, in the Eschatology of the Egyptians is found a trinity and a unity, and the Egyptians believed in punishment as well as everlasting happiness. Not surprisingly, then, the doctrine of everlasting life and the belief in the resurrection of the "Spiritual Body" are, according to Dr. Albert Churchward(author of Signs and Symbols of Primordial Man, Origins of Freemasonry, The Origin And Evolution of Religion, The Origin And Evolution of The Human Race, etc.) "the brightest and most prominent features of the Egyptian religion, and this we find was their belief before the time of the first king of the first dynasty." The general teachings and cosmological world view of the Egyptians eventually filtered down and provided the foundation for later so-called 'Western Religions,' i.e., Judaism, Christianity and Islam. This point is thoroughly documented by the brilliant and prolific African scholar, Dr. Josef ben-Jochannan, in an epic work, African Origins of the Major Western Religions.
http://www.melanet.com/clegg_series/wasjesusblack.html

*For me, "identical" is too strong a word, but my limited reading in this area does show remarkable parallels.  Identical in theme, perhaps, but not identical in description.

Comments?
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 26, 2012, 01:22:23 PM
With little or no publicity and certainly no fanfare, there are groups in various parts of the country educating Black kids re: more accurate history.

Their slogan:  "It is Better to Build a Child Than to Repair an Adult"

If you are in or close to Philadelphia this weekend you can attend the regional conference of the Association for the Study of Classical African Civilizations (ASCAC).

Quote
ASCAC was established at the First Annual Ancient Egyptian Studies Conference in Los Angeles, CA in 1984.

Founding Members: Jacob Carruthers, Maulana Karenga, Leonard Jeffries, Asa G. Hilliard, III, John Henrik Clarke, Yosef Ben Jochannan, Anderson Thompson and Nzinga Ratibisha Heru.

The goal of ASCAC is to bring together scholars, thinkers, planners, artists, students, scientists, and technicians to promote and restore our ancient African heritage through research, education, creative productions and spiritual development. ASCAC, through its annual regional and national conferences, publications, and international educational tours promotes a Pan African discussion of world history, historical identity, purpose and direction.

ASCAC is for African People Worldwide

Info on the conference here:  http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1102716750185-916/ASCAC+Mid-Atl+Conf+2012.pdf
(Or you can access the info at: http://africangenesis2.org/)

This group  offers a program for FREE trips to Africa for youngsters and adults.  "Free" in exchange for work and fund-raising.

EDIT:  I should have mentioned that this group has sent THOUSANDS of kids to Africa.

You may have to be in NYC for that option, although you may be able to pay if you are interested in going:  http://africangenesis2.org/visit-africa-free/program-information/
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on November 26, 2012, 01:41:53 PM
You're pouring it on Bison66  ;D
A little more then somebody head is going to explode  :lol:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 28, 2012, 12:23:29 AM
It's time to highlight from the OP the essence of the argument being made here:

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

In that context, here is an outline - merely an outline - of the evidence indicating that the Kemetans were indeed Black people:

Quote
Many Black scholars have presented the Africentric view on the "race" of the Ancient Egyptians. Their research has triggered a reevaluation of certain assumptions. For example, most Black Africans do not have thick lips and broad noses. There are four distinct Black African physical types. All were part of the Ancient Egyptian population. Secondly Ancient Egyptian drawings were largely conventional. This means that they clearly had a symbolic meaning that was not true to form. For example, the traditional reddish brown color used to portray all men (no matter what their true skin tone) may have represented the African "blood of life" concept. For religious purposes, Black Africans have painted their bodies red or reddish brown from time immemorial.

Therefore, one should not reach hard and fast conclusions about Egyptian ethnicity based on the color used in the tomb and pyramid drawings. Furthermore, even if the colors are accurate depictions of the people, a number of indigenous, unmixed Africans, like the Pygmies, have reddish brown skin tone. Yet no one would deny that these are "Black" African people. In light of this, if the Ancient Egyptians were indeed of reddish brown skin color, they were of the same color as modern Pygmies.

As many writers in the guestbook have attempted to explain, the original Black Egyptians were mixed with invading Libyans, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, Arabs and Western Europeans. This explains the genetic status of the modern Egyptian, who does not resemble his Black African forebears.

To truly determine the Ancient Egyptian "race," one must consider the full range of linguistic cultural, anatomical, archaeological and genetic evidence. One recent, nonblack scholar, Richard Poe ("Black Spark: White Fire: Did African Explorers Civilize Ancient Europe") (Prima Publishing, Rocklin, CA), has done just that and has reached the following conclusion: "Were the Egyptians black? That is entirely up to...you. But were they biologically African? It would seem that they were."

We, of course, believe that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans and the following is a synopsis of some of the evidence that supports our view:

Evidence from Physical Anthropology


The skeletons and skulls of the Ancient Egyptians clearly reflect that they were a Negroid people with features very similar to those of modern Black Nubians and other people of the Upper Nile and of East Africa.
 
Melanin Dosage Test

Egyptologist Cheikh Anta Diop invented a method for determining the level of melanin in the skin of human beings. When conducted on Egyptian mummies in the Museum of Man in Paris, this test indicated that these remains were of Black people.
 
Osteological Evidence

"Lepsius canon," which distinguishes the bodily proportions of various racial groups categories the "ideal Egyptian" as "short-armed and of Negroid or Negrito physical type."
 
Evidence From Blood Types

Diop notes that even after hundreds of years of inter-mixture with foreign invaders, the blood type of modern Egyptians is the "same group B as the populations of western Africa on the Atlantic seaboard and not the A2 Group characteristic of the white race prior to any crossbreeding."
 
The Egyptians as They Saw Themselves

"The Egyptians had only one term to designate themselves =kmt= the negroes (literally). This is the strongest term existing in the Pharaonic tongue to indicate blackness; it is accordingly written with a hieroglyph representing a length of wood charred at the end and not crocodile scales," singular. Kmt from the adjective =kmt= black; it therefore means strictly negroes or at the very least black men. The term is a collective noun which thus described the whole people of pharaonic Egypt as a black people."
 
Divine Epithets

Diop demonstrates that "black or negro" is the divine epithet invariably used for the chief beneficent Gods of Egypt, while the evil spirits were depicted as red.
 
Evidence From the Bible

The Bible states that "[t]he sons of Ham [were] Cush and Mizraim [i.e. Egypt], and Phut, and Canaan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah and Sabtechah." According to Biblical tradition, Ham, of course, was the father of the Black race. "Generally speaking all semitic tradition (Jewish and Arab) class ancient Egypt with the countries of the black."
 
Cultural unity of Egypt With The Rest of Africa

Through a study of circumcision and totemism, Diop gives detailed data showing cultural unity between Egypt and the rest of Africa.
 
Linguistic Unity With Southern and Western Africa

In a detailed study of languages, Diop clearly demonstrates that Ancient Egyptian, modern Coptic of Egypt and Walaf of West Africa are related, with the latter two having their origin in the former.
 
Testimony of Classical Greek and Roman Authors

Virtually all of the early Latin eyewitnesses described the Ancient Egyptians as Black skinned with wooly hair.
http://www.melanet.com/clegg_series/guestbook.html

It could take a whole career to delve deeply into just one of these topics.

BTW....My understanding re "KMT" is that vowels were considered the province of only the priests.....


Pharoah, tell 'em to keep their helmets on.  ;)
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on November 28, 2012, 09:09:11 PM
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 29, 2012, 01:29:15 AM
Iceman and Pharoah,

I know y'all have something to contribute, Right?
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 29, 2012, 09:21:33 AM
As the Elements said in "Mighty Mighty":

We are people, of the mighty
Mighty people of the sun
In our hearts lies all the answers
To the truth you can't run from


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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 02, 2012, 02:13:52 AM
"That astonishing epoch of ni%%er domination"

Arthur Weigall

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

                                   
"It seems amazing that an African Negro should have been able with any sort of justification to style himself Emperor of the World"

David Randall-MacIver


More to come...
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 02, 2012, 02:54:58 PM
Iceman and Pharoah,

I know y'all have something to contribute, Right?
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If you insist...

Origin of Egyptians (Kemet/Mizraim)

Quote
The Edfu Text is an important source document on the early history of the Nile Valley.  This famous inscription, found in the Temple of Horus at Edfu, gives an account of the origin of KMT (Egyptian) civilization.  According to this record, civilization was brought from the south by a band of invaders under the leadership of King Horus. John G Jackson, Introduction to African Civilization)
 Note the people of KMT called themselves Kemiu or Kemmiu… which translates at “the blacks”
Quote
In (the London Museum) you will find a document called the Papyrus of Hunefer…and I quote from the hieratic writing, “we came from the beginning of the Nile where GOD Hapi dwells, at the foothills of The Mountains of the Moon”…Where is “the beginning of the Nile”?  The furthest point of the beginning of the Nile is in Uganda; this is the White Nile.  Another point is in modern Ethiopia – the Blue Nile.  The Blue Nile and the White Nile meet in Khartoum;  and the other side of Khartoum is the Omdurman Republic of Sudan.  From there it flows from the south down north.  And there it meets with the Atbara River in Atbara, Sudan.  Then it flows completely through Sudan…into the southern part of what the Romans called “Nubia”, and parallel on the Nile, part of which the Greeks called “Egypticus”; the English called it “Egypt” and the Jews in their mythology called it “Mizrain” which the current Arabs called Mize/Mizrair.  Thus it ends in the Sea of Sais, also called the Great Sea, today’s Mediterranean Sea. (Dr ben-Jochannan)

Quote
Their legends tell of their origins in the south at the sources of the Hapi.  Rose…cites the Edfu text as authority for the legend of a southern origin of the predynastic Kemites(Egyptians).  The land “up south” was called Ta Ntr, or the land of God.  They faced south to get their bearings.  The word for “left hand” and the word for “east” are the same, as are the words for “right hand” and the “west”….  (Dr Asa G Hilliard, III)

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 02, 2012, 04:09:48 PM
Iceman and Pharoah,

I know y'all have something to contribute, Right?
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If you insist...  RELIGION...

The Annuciation, the Immaculate Conception, Virgin Birth, and the Adoration (3 Magi and gifts)

Quote
The story of Ausar, Aset and Heur is the first story in the recorded history of man of a holy royal family (the Trinity), immaculate conception, virgin birth, and resurrection.  Evidence of this Trinity is known to have existed in ancient Nubia as late as 3300 BCE.  Carved on the walls of the Temple of Luxor (circa 1380 B.C.E.) are scenes which depict the following:
1.    The Annuciation – The Netcher Djhuiti is shown announcing to the virgin Aset the coming birth of their son, Heru.
2.   The Immaculate Conception -  The Netcher Kneph, who represents the Holy Ghost, and the Netcher Het-Heru (Hathor) are shown symbolically impregnating Aset by holding ankhs (symbols of life) to the nostrils of the virgin mother-to-be.
3.   The Virgin Birth – Aset is whown sitting on the birthing stool and the new born child is attended by midwives.
4.   The Adoration -  The newborn Heru is portrayed receiving gifts from three kings, or Magi while being adored by a host of gods and men.

(Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization - Anthony T Browder- ONE of the best books containing consolidated information from most of the books listed by Bison66 and others in this particular forum - its a 296 page encyclopedia of information about Egypt)

Samuel Sharp, author of Egyptian Mystery and Egyptian Christianity, made the following comments upon viewing this scene:

   In this picture we have the Annuciation, the Conception, the Birth and the Adoration as described in the first and second chapters of Luke’s Gospel; and as we have historical assurance that the chapters in Matthew’s Gospel which contain the miraculous birth of Christ are after additions not in the earliest manuscripts, it seems probable that these two poetical chapters in Luke may also be unhistorical and borrowed from the Egyptian accounts of the miraculous births of their kings.      



Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 03, 2012, 09:29:14 AM
MUCHAS GRACIAS, Iceman!!!!
Tremendously revealing information.

Anthony Browder has been very successful in "popularizing" the research of great scholars.

He conducts workshops with Masonic organizations (especially or perhaps only Prince Hall Masons) to explain deeper connections with the Motherland than most members suspected existed.

Years ago he conducted tours of DC to explain the "hidden secrets in plain view" of Africa in the buildings and monuments around the city:  the obelisk (Washington Monument) and the Masonic Lodge on 16th Street, for example.

From afar I have watched him over decades become a self-taught scholar in his own right!
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 03, 2012, 09:40:46 AM
When our kids and grandkids could benefit from seeing someone "who looks like them" doing amazing things -especially in science - we can share photos, games and information like this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 03, 2012, 11:59:57 PM
Found this provocative quote:

"Would whites or any other group agree to embrace a history of themselves created and or controlled by Black People?!"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 04, 2012, 12:40:28 AM
Found this provocative quote:

"Would whites or any other group agree to embrace a history of themselves created and or controlled by Black People?!"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...
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Of course not, only a people with a slave mentality accepts that crap!!!  Thank GOD all of our Ancestors did not have that mentality regardless of their true state of physical bondage...


Now you are gettin deep...  Ease up before the naive, ignorant, disinterested or just plain loss get a friggin migraine headache...  Mental Slavery is far worse than that imposed by the "peculiar institution"; because on the surface a person in mental bondage appears to be free and normal, but in reality he's a loss soul trolling around like a runaway fool with all of his life's possessions on his back trying to find his way while despising all the evidence around him of his people's greatness; which he denigrates, ignores or can't see due to an inferiority complex mindset - based on true ignorance of past, present and future history of his own people...
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 04, 2012, 08:20:42 AM
When our kids and grandkids could benefit from seeing someone "who looks like them" doing amazing things -especially in science - we can share photos, games and information like this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/
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I recommend the DVD, "Hidden Colors - The Untold History of People of Aboriginal, Moor & African Descent" by Tariq Nasheed and "Lost Kingdoms of Africa", by Dr Fus Casely-Hayford...

The list of books is exhaustive so unless their is a true request we let the forum just take in what has already been suggested prior to this post...  ;)
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on December 05, 2012, 12:23:14 PM
Found this provocative quote:

"Would whites or any other group agree to embrace a history of themselves created and or controlled by Black People?!"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...
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H*ll naw!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 05, 2012, 12:53:39 PM
When our kids and grandkids could benefit from seeing someone "who looks like them" doing amazing things -especially in science - we can share photos, games and information like this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/
O0 713

I recommend the DVD, "Hidden Colors - The Untold History of People of Aboriginal, Moor & African Descent" by Tariq Nasheed and "Lost Kingdoms of Africa", by Dr Fus Casely-Hayford...

The list of books is exhaustive so unless their is a true request we let the forum just take in what has already been suggested prior to this post...  ;)

Thanks, I will check that out.

I thought you were referencing this Casely-Hayford -  a pioneering Pan Africanist.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/44/JECasely-Hayford.jpg/180px-JECasely-Hayford.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._E._Casely_Hayford

Studied about him and other early Pan-Africanists while in grad school and later.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 09, 2012, 12:49:36 AM
Quote
According to Sir William Osler, Imhotep was the real Father of Medicine (2980 BC) –about 4,000 years ago. “The first figure of a physician to stand out clearly from the mists of antiquity,” Imhotep diagnosed and treated over 200 diseases: 15 diseases of the abdomen, 29 of the eyes, 11 of the bladder, 10 of the rectum, and 18 of the skin, hair, nails and tongue. Imhotep treated gout, tuberculosis, appendicitis, gallstones, and arthritis. In addition to performing surgery and some dentistry, Imhotep extracted medicine from plants. He knew the position and function of the vital organs and circulation of the blood system. The Encyclopedia Britannica says, “The evidence afforded by Egyptian and Greek texts support the view that Imhotep’s reputation was very respected in early times…His prestige increased with the lapse of centuries and his temples in Greek times were the centers of medical teachings.”

Imhotep was worshipped as a god and healer from approximately 2850 B.C. to 525 B.C., and as a full deity from 525 B.C. to 550 A.D. He lived during the Third Dynasty at the court of King Zoser in Egypt. Imhotep was a known scribe, chief lector, priest, architect, astronomer and magician (medicine and magic were used together in that era). For 3000 years he was worshipped as a god in Greece and Rome. Early Christians worshipped him as the “Prince of Peace.”
(http://www.shiftyourlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Imhotep.jpg)
When the Egyptians crossed the Mediterranean, becoming the foundation of the Greek culture, Imhotep’s teachings and philosophies were absorbed there. The Greeks equated him with Aesculapius (Hermes). He was regarded as the god of study and in later times took on some of the attributes of Thoth or Tehuti as the scribe of the gods. In the time of Imhotep, healing was considered one of the secret sciences of priestcraft. Candidates aspiring to be trained in the healing tradition underwent severe tests or initiations to prove their worthiness at various stages of their training. Among the ancients, philosophy, science and religion/spirituality were never considered as separate units- they comprised a balanced whole- and this concept was considered integral to healing modalities.

The story of Imhotep disappeared in Greek mythology over time and was forgotten for thousands of years, A legendary figure, Hippocrates, who appeared 2000 years later in 5th century BC, became known as the Father of Medicine. Hippocrates segregated the healing art from the other sciences of the medical training and established a precedent for scientific separateness, incomplete healing, and materialism present in current modern-day medicine. Doctors began to be trained to only accept that which can be experienced through the concrete perceptions of the 5 primary human senses. This is why physicians today take the Hippocratic Oath.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 17, 2012, 03:01:49 AM
Some will ask:  
"If all these ancient wise men, queens, and pioneers in philosophy, architecture, medicine, writing, science, monument building and civilization itself were really Black and African, how is it that our schools did not teach us that?"

The answer is simple and the answer is complicated.  Some assert that Euro scholars were seduced by the social norms (white so-called supremacy) and economic interests (exploitation of "the other") of their respective eras and, for those reasons, denied the evidence before their very own eyes.  Others like Dr. Marimba Ani (YURUGU) postulate that internal cultural and psychological features of Euro culture were also responsible for the distortions created, passed on and accepted by even the Greeks - a century or two after their forebears had learned at the knee of Africans - "forgot" the truth of the origins of much of their high learning.  

After decades and centuries during which students were mis-taught, most of them may have accepted as true some of the silly explanations given

Scholar and teacher and many-times-published writer, Dr. Molefi K. Asante of Temple University speaks of the "legacy of disbelief."  Some people just cannot bring themselves to overcome the omissions and distortions of what they were taught because it conflicts with their own self-concept and their stereotypical views of others as uncivilized, inadequate and inferior.  Isn't it appropriate that we jokingly say that some folks are in D'Nile?!?!

For, as the OP pointed out, one CANNOT both believe that Africans/Blacks are inferior AND SIMULTANEOUSLY accept that Africans/Blacks created an amazing civilization while most of Europe basked in ignorance and built nothing more than mounds and stacked a few rough-hewn large stones on other large stones.

But along the way, scholars and artists had to facilitate the omissions of African/Black civilization and distortion of European history to support the belief in white so-called supremacy and the concomitant belief in African/Black so-called inferiority.

This link shows how the "legacy of disbelief" was facilitated:

(http://www.beforebc.de/Made.by.Humankind/Real.People/02-16-800-00-12.jpg)

[It should be noted that in the effort to correct mistaken history, sometimes another mistake is made and a person is "claimed" as Black /African on less than solid evidence or just incorrectly.  However, an exception here and there does not invalidate the general case made here and elsewhere.]

And the work continues:
http://www.beforebc.de/Made.by.Humankind/Real.People/02-16-200-00-02.html

Here the author explains that the "black headed Sumerians" (sometimes referred to as "black footed" also!!!!) were actually Black people.  You wouldn't think such an explanation would be needed, would you?  >:(
http://www.beforebc.de/Made.by.Humankind/Real.People/02-16-200-00-02.html

Reminds me of the extensive lengths taken by some to explain away why the ONLY (?) physical description of Jesus of Nazareth includes the color of his feet and a type of hair characteristic (taken together) of ONLY Black people - and not similar to Da Vinci's nephew who was the model many centuries later - for one of the most famous representations of Jesus.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 19, 2012, 10:45:29 PM
Neymar's point about Kemet being a crossroads does, of course, have some truth in it.  But, also of course, places that become crossroads do so for a reason.

Peoples from other areas come for a reason and they attempt to trade with or sometimes conquer for a reason.

My initial response to Neymar had to do with the fact that the origins of Kemet were not based upon it being a crossroads and one should not be confused by the presence of "foreigners" AFTER the initial civilization has begun.

NOW...
Let us put the last stake in the heart of the legacy of disbelief and the last nail in the coffin of the FALSE and ridiculous eurocentric farce that the amazing and wondrous civilization in northeast Africa was not a Black one.

RE: the African / Black identity of the Ancient Egyptians:
One can argue about paint pigments to portray people as Black/African or not.
One can dispute first person accounts by foreigners describing people as Black-skinned with wooly hair.

BUT, PRAY TELL, HOW DO YOU ARGUE WITH STONE??
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3oJBpNVo6BGgflEhsFLMKxd0H8FSoTIJn8JCZD4HcFOIjJ-h3)

He looks like a Brother dressed up for an Alpha Phi Alpha pageant at an HBCU.

It's hard to argue with STONE!!!!  Those lips, that nose.  C[mon, Euro historians:  'Fess up!!!  Y'all know you've been teaching lies.  Black scholars:  stop worrying about your chances for tenure or how your white colleagues will react to your acknowledging the truth.

THIS kind of evidence is ALL OVER THE REGION and contradicts the oft-repeated claim that Blacks did not WRITE our history and that we are "only" an ORAL People.  There's MUCH more of a written record in Africa than in Europe during a similar period of time.  If this wrong, please someone tell me what was going on in France or Germany in 3500BCE!!   (BCE = Before the Common Era)

Note in this piece of history below that we are talking about the 25th Dynasty - THE TWENTY FIFTH!!!!  Thousands of years from the beginnings of Kemetan civilization.

You've seen these two quotes before and I promised more was coming:

"That astonishing epoch of ni%%er domination"
Arthur Weigall

* * * * * * * * * *
                                                                                                                   
"It seems amazing that an African Negro should have been able with any sort of justification to style himself Emperor of the World"
David Randall-MacIver

Quote
The above are just two of the published sentiments of early White writers concerning the reign of Taharka, one of the great rulers in human history. While such opinions are no longer directly expressed on the pages of respected publications, they are, most assuredly, buried deeply in the minds of the average Western historian, anthropologist and archaeologist. That is why all of white academia have had conniptions over the Black reclamation of African history. Conventional scholars cannot imagine how Black people, "with any sort of justification," can claim not just a prominent, but even a dominant, role in any part of World history.

Well, the day for promoting myths and fantasies is over. Black men did indeed rule the world at one time, and their story - long hidden by an elite cadre of racist thought police - is now, finally, being resurrected by Black Publishing houses and the ubiquitous Internet.


TAHARKA: The Great King of Nubia

Thousands of years before the rise, spread and triumph of White supremacy (racism), there emerged in Africa a nation variously called Kush, Nubia and Ethiopia. This land, which lies immediately south of Egypt, appears to have laid the foundation of Egyptian civilization. Over the millennia, however, Nubia was gradually overshadowed and often dominated by its northern neighbor. Then, toward the end of Egypt's 24th dynasty, Nubia grew strong and one of its most valiant warriors, Piankhi, set sail down the Nile with the intention of subduing Egypt. Upon completion of his mission, Piankhi "had conquered all of Egypt and was now, as King of Upper and Lower Egypt and Kush, lord and master of a land that stretched from the Sahara to the borders of Ethiopia and from the shores of the Mediterranean fourteen hundred miles to the middle reaches of the White and Blue Niles, beyond modern Kartoum." 1

After a stellar reign during which he attempted to return Egypt, then decadent, weak and overrun by foreigners, to its former state of glory, Piankhi passed away. He was succeeded by his son, Taharka.

When Taharka ascended the thrown, Nubia was at the height of its glory. Just as in previous centuries when Sesostris, Thutmose I and Thutmose III built empires in vast parts of the Mediterranean world, Taharka, another Black pharaoh, ruled the greatest empire of his day.

This pharaoh's reign began with what many believe to have been an omen from the gods the unprecedented flooding of the Nile....

...Taharka's reign was bedeviled by the same enemy that had plagued his royal ancestors for generations before him. Once the poverty stricken, barbaric hordes from Europe and Asia discovered the Nile Valley as an African breadbasket, they never ceased in their attempts to invade the land with an eye toward conquest and settlement of it. During predynastic and early dynastic times, these foreigners were simply a menace. Following the Middle Kingdom, they actually did conquer and gain a foothold in Egypt. From the 18th through the 24th dynasties, the foreigners gained more and more influence through trade, intermarriage with the indigenous Africans and settling the Delta region near the Mediterranean Sea.

By the time of Taharka's reign in the 25th dynasty, Asians were not only well integrated into the African population, they also dominated the northernmost part of Egypt, particularly the Delta region. Furthermore, strong, rival nations were gradually evolving in Asia itself. At this time, the Assyrians were the greatest threat to Egypt.

In about 672 B.C., King Esarhaddon, King of Syria, launched an attack on Egypt. He defeated the Egyptian army in the Sinai desert and, in two short weeks, reached the Delta City of Memphis, surrounded and conquered it. Although Taharka fought valiantly, his troops were defeated and he escaped to the south. His children and harem were taken by the Assyrians.

The Asian princes of the Delta immediately proclaimed their loyalty to the Assyrian King; and Esarhaddon declared that he was the ruler of Upper and Lower Egypt. He then returned to Assyria.

Hearing of his enemies departure, Taharka fortified his army, swept back down the Nile and recaptured the nation to the Mediterranean Sea. Esarhaddon returned to subdue Taharka, but died en route. His son, Ashurbanipal, continued his father's military campaign. He demolished Taharka's army in the Delta and followed the King up the Nile to the Thebes. The Assyrians conquered Thebes and drove Taharka further south into Nubia. In 664 B.C. Taharka's twenty-six year reign ended when he died at the age of 45...

...The story of Taharka and the 25th dynasty is, in truth, the story of the "Last Stand" of the Black race in Egypt.  Although, in recounting the reign of Taharka, we have cast him and his predecessor, Piankhi, as conquerors of Egypt, they did not see themselves as such. They knew that the original Egyptians were from Nubia and that, gradually, over the Millennia Egypt had lost its African character and fallen under the "corrupt" influence of foreigners. Hence the pharaohs of the 25th dynasty viewed themselves as reclaiming their birthright and stimulating a renaissance of African culture along the Nile.

Unfortunately, unlike his mighty forebears, such as Sesostris, Thutmose I and Thutmose III, Taharka appeared at the end of the days of Black glory, when powerful foreign forces began desecrating, pillaging and raping Africa -- acts which continue today on the battlefield, in Western museums and in the Halls of Ivy.
[/size]

 The famous Nubian warriors - these from the 11th Dynasty:
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/troops.jpg)

From the 18th Dynasty:
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/slide0018_op_800x703.jpg)
What if I told you that the descendants of these warriors saved Jerusalem (for the Jews) from foreign invaders centuries later in 701 BCE........?

And two thousand 300 hundred years AFTER THAT gave the Brits their toughest fight......?

O0  1,100
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Blackcaesar2k5 on December 20, 2012, 05:51:47 AM
If i recalled, my ancestors the anicent israelites were slaves of Egypt and Cush... However, my people the hebrews save Egypt from seven famine... 

btw, the original hebrews were black and came from Shem.. Many of those africans slaves that came to new world through middle passage are decendants of lost tribes of Israel..



Happy Hanukkah!!!!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 21, 2012, 09:04:58 PM
For centuries now, scholars have looked at evidence like this and concluded that guys like this are white!!!!
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3093/3472683565_e1320979c2_z.jpg)

Arguing with engraved stone evidence is worse than arguing with yourself in the mirror!

Quote
Funerary Statue of Mentuhotep II

Painted sandstone statue of Nebhepetre Mentuhotep (Mentuhotep II) wearing the red crown of Lower Egypt. From the 11th dynasty, circa 2060-2010 B.C

According to Egyptologist the middle kingdom had very close links to Nubia or Kush, and Amenement was obviously of Ta Seti ancestry and the prophecy of Neferti reinforced, however egyptologist debate about the 11th dynasty, however all of Mentuhotep wives were nubian or of Medjai descent, and some egyptologist speculate perhaps the pharaoh Mentuhotep was nubian as well.

Or,....how about this rendering of the same king?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Mentuhotep_Seated.jpg)

Forget the coloring!  Look at his facial features.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on December 22, 2012, 10:32:55 AM
I haven't participated in this thread but I truly emjoyed following. It's tough to find people in Harrisburg,
PA who have read some of the books I have. I applaud all of you.
 :clap:  :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 22, 2012, 10:02:21 PM
CU1994,

We KNOW you have something to share.

For example, since you mentioned it, what books would you recommend for:

a) a beginner
b) an advanced learner

Ice, Caesar, Pharoah,  you too!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on December 22, 2012, 10:41:02 PM
CU1994,

We KNOW you have something to share.

For example, since you mentioned it, what books would you recommend for:

a) a beginner
b) an advanced learner

Ice, Caesar, Pharoah,  you too!
O0

If the person was ready to start studying, I would recommend a quick read that is rather general like Rudolph Windsor's From Babylon to Timbuktu.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on December 23, 2012, 11:17:06 AM
Bison,

To further elaborate on my answer, sometimes you have to wet the appetite. Some people are at the stage where they need purpose and a reason to understand history. If that is the case, I would recommend two books that are very easy reads but will wet appetite for deeper study. Those books would be From the Browder File and The Mis-Education of the Negro. I read the Carter G Woodson classic in my early teens and soon afterward I was reading The Destruction of Black Civilazation. I had to read Diop again in my Sophmore year in college to have a full understanding. I believe From The Browder File would have the same affect on a young person. I had my daughter read this book before her senior year in high school.

SANKOFA
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 23, 2012, 11:52:20 AM
Yes, definitely, I agree, CU.  That why I asked for suggestions for beginners as well.
Thanks!

Browder, as I've said before, is excellent.

Some, like Diop, Ani and John Jackson, are a bit difficult to read and some, like Dr. Ben, go off - for my taste - on too many tangents.

Carter's "Miseducation...." is, of course, mandatory reading.

I will share some book suggestions later, but mine relate to more recent history/politics than dealt with in this thread.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on December 23, 2012, 12:11:38 PM
Bison,

Now you have me digging in my library. I might have to stop by my parents house to remember more selections. They owned an African centered book store for years. Another Windsor selection that is an easy read as it relates to our condition today is The Valley of The Dry Bones.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 23, 2012, 12:29:33 PM
CU1994,

What city was your parent's shop in?

My wife and I were briefly in the book-selling business, also.  Based in NJ and MD.  My partners were Cheyneyites!
O0

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on December 23, 2012, 12:43:04 PM
That's funny, it was in Harrisburg. My mother is Cheyney Alum and my dad is Lincoln alum.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 23, 2012, 03:10:25 PM
Like I said, it's tough when euro scholars and their misguided Black acolytes are reduced to arguing with evidence in stone to deny - as some have done for CENTURIES - that the Ancient Egyptians were Black:

(http://www.beforebc.de/Made.by.Humankind/StyledHair3000BC/03-10-02-01.jpg)
http://www.beforebc.de/Made.by.Humankind/StyledHair3000BC/03-10-02-01.html

Scholars even tried to create a "NEW RACE" that - altho MAYBE Black-skinned, WERE NOT REALLY BLACK (wink, wink!!)  They called them "NILOTICS" - which after you got past the smoke and mirrors, actually meant "people who lived near the Nile!!!!!"  That way, what.......they wouldn't be Africans?? ?? ??

Give us all a d@mn break!!!  That's like saying the people who live near the River Niger are NOT Africans, they are Nigerians!!!!   (The term 'Nilotic' has now evolved and is accurately used to simply describe people in the area.)

But that's what passed for intellectual scholarship for centuries.  The need to believe in and support white so-called supremacy was SO strong that normally rational people with high intelligence and excellent educations found themselves face to face with 4,000 year old evidence in stone..........and shouting - in their academic journals and lectures:

"I DON'T CARE IF YOU HAVE WOOLY HAIR IN BRAIDS,
BROAD NOSES, FULL LIPS AND VERY DARK SKIN,
YOU ARE NOT BLACK AND CERTAINLY NOT AFRICAN!!!!"

There JUST HAD to be another explanation because they KNEW that Black people "OBVIOUSLY" were simply NOT CAPABLE of the achievements starring them in the face.  They ignored what their own Greek forebears told them about the Ethiopians and Egyptians.

From Herodotus, himself regarded by many euro scholars as the  "Father of..." - I guess unless he was telling them that the Egyptians were Black - "...History."
Here he speaks in a noticeably off-handed, matter of fact way:
Quote
There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too; but further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves confess that they learnt the custom of the Egyptians; and the Syrians who dwell about the rivers Thermodon and Parthenius, as well as their neighbours the Macronians, say that they have recently adopted it from the Colchians. Now these are the only nations who use circumcision, and it is plain that they all imitate herein the Egyptians. With respect to the Ethiopians, indeed, I cannot decide whether they learnt the practice of the Egyptians, or the Egyptians of them — it is undoubtedly of very ancient date in Ethiopia — but that the others derived their knowledge of it from Egypt is clear to me from the fact that the Phoenicians, when they come to have commerce with the Greeks, cease to follow the Egyptians in this custom, and allow their children to remain uncircumcised.
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/h/herodotus/h4/contents.html

With so few exceptions as to be INsignificant, the euro scholars then - after "forgetting" or pretending not to know what the Ancients had told them - taught generation upon generation of students and future "scholars" the same hysterical blindness and "D'Nile" that developed and encouraged the "legacy of denial" that is just recently being broken down by Afrocentric scholars and being disseminated to small but increasing segments of the general public.

Much pseudo-science and FALSIFIED HISTORY was developed to support related contentions.  For example:
- Skull size was supposedly evidence of African inferiority.  
- Enslaved Africans who sought their freedom were diagnosed with the disease of drapetomania because it was IMpossible for Africans to want to be free.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania  After all, many Christian leaders at the time taught that it was "divine order" for Blacks to be subservient to whites.
- Anthropologists came up with all kinds of "evidence" including the ranking of races
- "I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the Whites. There scarcely ever was a civilization of their complexion, nor even any individual, eminent either in action or speculation."—David Hume, English philosopher, in his book, Essays, Moral and Political, Vol. II. 1700's
-"It will be seen that when we classify mankind by color, the only one of the primary races, given by this classification, which has not made a creative contribution to any one of our twenty-one civilizations is the Black Race."—Dr. Arnold Toynbee, The Study of History, Vol. I, page 233. 1947
- "In most if not all of the newly independent Black nations of Africa, little if anything during the past 5000 or more years can be pointed to as having made a contribution that in any way enhances the life of man."—Walter Arnold, The Evolution of Man in Relation to That of the Earth, Part V, The Mankind Quarterly, Vol. X, No.2 (Oct-Dec 1969), p. 78.
- - "The major cause for American Negroes intellectual and social deficits is hereditary and racially genetic in origin and thus not remedial to a major degree by improvement in environment."—Dr. William Shockley, of Stanford University, Nobel Prize winner

So it is clear that THE DENIAL OF BLACK ACHIEVEMENT in ancient times was used to justify racist notions of African/Black capability in modern times.

And now the cover up and denial of Black Achievement takes a new turn:
If you search for that INFAMOUS Toynbee quote bolded above, you will NOT FIND IT on the sites devoted Toynbee quotes NOR on his Wikipedia page.  He is lauded as a genius and his works are recommended, but the prospective reader is not alerted to the fact that the very PREMISES of his understanding of history and civilization itself are FALSE and racist to the core.  (But you can bet that in a few days the sites that accept comments, including Amazon, and the Wiki page will have it added....if I still have breath!  And IF they do not delete it.)

Meanwhile over time, the self-perceptions of whites and Blacks have been distorted with whites having an inflated sense of themselves and Africans/Blacks the opposite:  
Whites, in large number and percentage, believe that their racial ancestors were the FIRST developers of civilization as represented by science, medicine, architecture, history, and philosophy and therefore, clearly were superior.  And conversely, they believe that Africans made little or no contribution to the development of humankind's civilization and therefore must not be as intelligent, industrious......or worthy.
Blacks, in large number and percentage (but HOPEFULLY less!), believe THE SAME THING!!!!

Both results are a travesty - with huge economic, political, psychological and social ramifications - and must be exposed & combated at all levels and whenever and wherever possible.

Bison66 has now stepped off his soap box.......................
(http://www.torontorealtyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/SoapBox.jpg)
O0 1,198
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 24, 2012, 02:02:49 AM
Bison66, my library has over 300 books and counting...  I have decided to by DVD's since everyone I love and want to share this knowledge will not necessarily pick up a book and read...  But here's a list of some of my favorites:

"They Came Before Columbus", Ivan Van Sertima

"World's Great Men of Color" J.A. Rogers

"The African Origin of Civilization", Dr Cheikh Anta Diop

"The Destruction fo Black Civilization",  Chancellor Williams

"The Isis Papers:  The Key to the Colors", Dr Frances Cress Welsing

"The Mis-Education of the Negro", Carter Godwin Woodson

"Christopher Columbus and the Afrikan Holocaust", Chancellor Williams

"Melanin: What makes Black People Black", Llaila Afrika

"Christianity before Christ", George G Jackson

"From Babylon to Timbuktu: A History of the Ancient Black Races...,  Rudolph Windsor

"Why Darkness Matters: The Power of Melanin in the Brain", Ann Brown

"Breaking the Chains of Psychological Slavery", Naim Akbar

"Stolen Legacy" George G.M. James 

"Iceman Inheritance: Prehistoric Sources of Western Man's Racism, Sexism and Aggression,  Michael Bradley

"Civilization or Barbarism:An Authentic Anthropology", Cheikh Anta Diop

"The Histories", Josephus

"The Ankh: African Origin of Electromagnetism", Nur Ankh Amen

"Black Man of the Nile",  Yosef ben-Jochannan

"Sundown Towns: Hidden Dimension of American Racism, James W Loewen

"The Historical Origin of Christianity", Walter Williams

"The Africans Who Wrote the Bible", Nana Banchie Darkwah

"Forced into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream", Lerone Bennett Jr.

"A Chronology of the Bible: Challenge to the Standard Version", Yosef Ben-Jochannan

"NILE VALLLEY CONTRIBUTIONS TO CIVILAZATION, ANTHONY T BROWDER

"Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans...", Harriet A Washington

"YURUGU: An African Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior", Marimba Ani

"Visions for Black Men", Naim Akbar

"The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read", Tim C Leedem

"When the Moors Ruled In Europe", Bettany Hughes

"What They Never Told You In History Class, Induskhamit Kush

"Message to the Blackman In America", Elijah Muhammad

"Before the Mayflower, a History of Black America", Lerone Bennett

"Dirty Little Secrets About Black History: Its Heroes and Other Trouble Makers, Claud Anderson

"Afrikan People and European Holidays" Vol 1&2, Ishakamusa Barashango

"Countering the Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys" Vols 1-4, Dr Jawanza Kujufu

"Wonderful Ethiopiansof the Ancient Cushite Empire", Drusilla Dunjee Houston

"Black Athena", Martin Bernal

"Anacalypsis", Geoffrey Higgins

"The Historical Origins of Islam", Walter Williams

"The African Origins of Major "Western Religions", Yosef A Ben-Jochannan

"A Book of the Beginnings, Vol1-2, Gerald Massey

"African Presence in Early Europe",  Ivan Van Sertima

"Introduction to African Civilizations", John G Jackson

"Into Egypt Again with Ships", Elisha Israel

"The Valley of the Dry Bones", Rudolf R Windsor

"The Thirteenth Tribe: The Kazar Empire and its Heritage", Arthur Koestler

"Hebrewisms of West Africa, Joseph J Williams

"The Secret Relationships Between Black and Jews"

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 24, 2012, 08:47:54 AM
Ice,

VERY impressive.   :bow:   :clap:   :bow:   :clap:

There's a big overlap of my library with yours, but yours is bigger re: ancient times.

Let me ask you: 

Which 2 or 3 or 4 of those books you would recommend for someone just starting their reading in this important discipline?

Secondly, given your wide-ranging reading:

If you were stranded......, which ONE would YOU want to have.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on December 24, 2012, 03:10:15 PM
Bison66, my library has over 300 books and counting...  I have decided to by DVD's since everyone I love and want to share this knowledge will not necessarily pick up a book and read...  But here's a list of some of my favorites:

"They Came Before Columbus", Ivan Van Sertima

"World's Great Men of Color" J.A. Rogers

"The African Origin of Civilization", Dr Cheikh Anta Diop

"The Destruction fo Black Civilization",  Chancellor Williams

"The Isis Papers:  The Key to the Colors", Dr Frances Cress Welsing

"The Mis-Education of the Negro", Carter Godwin Woodson

"Christopher Columbus and the Afrikan Holocaust", Chancellor Williams

"Melanin: What makes Black People Black", Llaila Afrika

"Christianity before Christ", George G Jackson

"From Babylon to Timbuktu: A History of the Ancient Black Races...,  Rudolph Windsor

"Why Darkness Matters: The Power of Melanin in the Brain", Ann Brown

"Breaking the Chains of Psychological Slavery", Naim Akbar

"Stolen Legacy" George G.M. James 

"Iceman Inheritance: Prehistoric Sources of Western Man's Racism, Sexism and Aggression,  Michael Bradley

"Civilization or Barbarism:An Authentic Anthropology", Cheikh Anta Diop

"The Histories", Josephus

"The Ankh: African Origin of Electromagnetism", Nur Ankh Amen

"Black Man of the Nile",  Yosef ben-Jochannan

"Sundown Towns: Hidden Dimension of American Racism, James W Loewen

"The Historical Origin of Christianity", Walter Williams

"The Africans Who Wrote the Bible", Nana Banchie Darkwah

"Forced into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream", Lerone Bennett Jr.

"A Chronology of the Bible: Challenge to the Standard Version", Yosef Ben-Jochannan

"NILE VALLLEY CONTRIBUTIONS TO CIVILAZATION, ANTHONY T BROWDER

"Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans...", Harriet A Washington

"YURUGU: An African Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior", Marimba Ani

"Visions for Black Men", Naim Akbar

"The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read", Tim C Leedem

"When the Moors Ruled In Europe", Bettany Hughes

"What They Never Told You In History Class, Induskhamit Kush

"Message to the Blackman In America", Elijah Muhammad

"Before the Mayflower, a History of Black America", Lerone Bennett

"Dirty Little Secrets About Black History: Its Heroes and Other Trouble Makers, Claud Anderson

"Afrikan People and European Holidays" Vol 1&2, Ishakamusa Barashango

"Countering the Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys" Vols 1-4, Dr Jawanza Kujufu

"Wonderful Ethiopiansof the Ancient Cushite Empire", Drusilla Dunjee Houston

"Black Athena", Martin Bernal

"Anacalypsis", Geoffrey Higgins

"The Historical Origins of Islam", Walter Williams

"The African Origins of Major "Western Religions", Yosef A Ben-Jochannan

"A Book of the Beginnings, Vol1-2, Gerald Massey

"African Presence in Early Europe",  Ivan Van Sertima

"Introduction to African Civilizations", John G Jackson

"Into Egypt Again with Ships", Elisha Israel

"The Valley of the Dry Bones", Rudolf R Windsor

"The Thirteenth Tribe: The Kazar Empire and its Heritage", Arthur Koestler

"Hebrewisms of West Africa, Joseph J Williams

"The Secret Relationships Between Black and Jews"



Great collection Iceman, we overlap as well. It's great to find people who have the same interests I do.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 24, 2012, 03:44:08 PM
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/banner101.jpg)

Are these people Black?
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 24, 2012, 08:26:13 PM
Ice,

VERY impressive.   :bow:   :clap:   :bow:   :clap:

There's a big overlap of my library with yours, but yours is bigger re: ancient times.

Let me ask you:  

Which 2 or 3 or 4 of those books you would recommend for someone just starting their reading in this important discipline?

Secondly, given your wide-ranging reading:

If you were stranded......, which ONE would YOU want to have.

O0

Anacalypsis, Marcus Garvey, Nile Valley Contributions, YURUGU, Psychotechnology of Brainwashing and The Destruction fo Black Civilization are essential for finding the truth and tending to a peoples self-esteem...  

Anacalypsis Vol 1-2, Geoffrey Higgins
Marcus Garvey - Message to the People The Course of African Philosophy, Tony Martin
Nile Valley Contributions to Western Civilization, Anthony Browder
Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys Vol 1-4, Jawanza Kujufu
"YURUGU: An African Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior", Marimba Ani
"Black Truth", J Asar Jubal
"Psychotechnology of Brainwashing", Kwabena F. Ashanti  
Black Athena Vol 1-2, Martin Bernal
Worlds Great Men of Color, J A Rogers
"When the Moors Ruled In Europe", Bettany Hughes
"The Isis Papers:  The Key to the Colors", Dr Frances Cress Welsing
"Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans", Harriet A Washington
"The Destruction fo Black Civilization",  Chancellor Williams
"Black Labor, White Wealth",  Chancellor Williams


These are all essential IMHO - Anthony Browder's book is an encyclopedia of info on Egypt, the others are Necessary to Grasp the European Pysche, their Passion for Revising REAL History, their Fear of Melaninated Peoples, the Use of Religion to Manipulate and Tools Used to Prevent the Next Messianic Male...

All are required Bison66, so as to really grasp what has transpired and what is still going on in this endless battle to discredit our very existence as a people... Marinate on that for a moment...  

 P E A C E!!!  
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 24, 2012, 08:43:11 PM
Great collection Iceman, we overlap as well. It's great to find people who have the same interests I do.

Our numbers are greater than you may know, especially if you have the good fortune of purchasing from a Black Owned and Operated Bookstore...  They tend to know and make recommendations and have author book signings, and I notice and meet a lot of our brothers and sisters perusing the books and making purchases (Thank GOD) etc...  I meet Dr Steve Perry in Connecticut at a black owned bookstore before he blew up on the national stage - I have a signed copy of his outstanding book, "Man Up! Nobody is Coming to Save Us by Steve Perry (May 1, 2006)"...  A link to his book can be found down below...  He calls out a few civil rights leaders but his legacy gives him the balls and the ability to do so IMHO!!!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=mAN+UP+%26+STEVE+PERRY&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3AmAN+UP+%26+STEVE+PERRY&ajr=0
  
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 24, 2012, 08:46:38 PM
CAN we have this PINNED to the Top of the Forum PLEASE!!!!  Thanks!!!!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 25, 2012, 01:58:30 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen,

I respectfully ask you to consider this statement seriously and give it some critical thought:

Quote
If you do not understand white supremacy (racism) — what it is and how it works — everything else you know will only confuse you.
Neely Fuller, Jr. in The United Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept (1984)

Better known simply as "The Code."
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 25, 2012, 02:43:25 AM
Ice,

VERY impressive.   :bow:   :clap:   :bow:   :clap:

There's a big overlap of my library with yours, but yours is bigger re: ancient times.

Let me ask you:  

Which 2 or 3 or 4 of those books you would recommend for someone just starting their reading in this important discipline?

Secondly, given your wide-ranging reading:

If you were stranded......, which ONE would YOU want to have.

O0

Anacalypsis, Marcus Garvey, Nile Valley Contributions, YURUGU, Psychotechnology of Brainwashing and The Destruction fo Black Civilization are essential for finding the truth and tending to a peoples self-esteem...  

Anacalypsis Vol 1-2, Geoffrey Higgins
Marcus Garvey - Message to the People The Course of African Philosophy, Tony Martin
Nile Valley Contributions to Western Civilization, Anthony Browder
Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys Vol 1-4, Jawanza Kujufu
"YURUGU: An African Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior", Marimba Ani
"Black Truth", J Asar Jubal
"Psychotechnology of Brainwashing", Kwabena F. Ashanti  
Black Athena Vol 1-2, Martin Bernal
Worlds Great Men of Color, J A Rogers
"When the Moors Ruled In Europe", Bettany Hughes
"The Isis Papers:  The Key to the Colors", Dr Frances Cress Welsing
"Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans", Harriet A Washington
"The Destruction fo Black Civilization",  Chancellor Williams


These are all essential IMHO - Anthony Browder's book is an encyclopedia of info on Egypt, the others are Necessary to Grasp the European Pysche, their Passion for Revising REAL History, their Fear of Melaninated Peoples, the Use of Religion to Manipulate and Tools Used to Prevent the Next Messianic Male...

All are required Bison66, so as to really grasp what has transpired and what is still going on in this endless battle to discredit our very existence as a people... Marinate on that for a moment...  

 P E A C E!!!  

As was said back in the day, "Bro, YOU ARE DROPPING SCIENCE!!"

I endorse your great suggestions for getting started:
Anacalypsis, Marcus Garvey, Nile Valley Contributions, YURUGU, Psychotechnology of Brainwashing and The Destruction fo Black Civilization are essential for finding the truth and tending to a peoples self-esteem...  

I have and have read 3 of those.  (I have the two Garvey titles listed below.)

As I said, because Politics has always been - and since the 70's Pan-Africanism in particular - my main interest, my recommended book list has a somewhat different focus.  But it overlaps, complements, supports yours and IMO points to the ways to build upon the knowledge contained in the more historical books on your and my list.

My recommendations for starters:

Nile Valley Contributions to Western Civilization     by Anthony Browder
 
The West and the Rest of Us                                   by Chinweizu

How Europe Under-Developed Africa                       by Walter Rodney

Destruction of Black Civilization                               by Chancellor Williams

Mis-Education of the Negro                                     by Carter Woodson

Class Struggle in Africa OR Africa Must Unite!      by Kwame Nkrumah

They Came Before Columbus                                    by Ivan Van Sertima

THEN

Afrocentricity OR The Afrocentric Idea                                               by Molefi Asante

Consciencism: Philosophy and Ideology for De-Colonisation            by Kwame Nkrumah

YURUGU: An African Centered Critique
of European Cultural Thought and Behavior"                                   by Marimba Ani
                                                                      
The Cultural Unity of Africa                                                               by Cheikh Anta Diop

The Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey                 edited by Amy Jacques Garvey

Race First: The Ideological and Organizational
Struggles of Marcus Garvey and the Universal
Negro Improvement Association                                                       by Tony Martin


If I were stranded on that proverbial tropical island:  YURUGU

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 25, 2012, 11:47:15 AM
As was said back in the day, "Bro, YOU ARE DROPPING SCIENCE!!"

I endorse your great suggestions for getting started:
Anacalypsis, Marcus Garvey, Nile Valley Contributions, YURUGU, Psychotechnology of Brainwashing and The Destruction fo Black Civilization are essential for finding the truth and tending to a peoples self-esteem...  

I have and have read 3 of those.  (I have the two Garvey titles listed below.)

As I said, because Politics has always been - and since the 70's Pan-Africanism in particular - my main interest, my recommended book list has a somewhat different focus.  But it overlaps, complements, supports yours and IMO points to the ways to build upon the knowledge contained in the more historical books on your and my list.

My recommendations for starters:

Nile Valley Contributions to Western Civilization     by Anthony Browder
 
The West and the Rest of Us                                   by Chinweizu

How Europe Under-Developed Africa                       by Walter Rodney

Destruction of Black Civilization                               by Chancellor Williams

Mis-Education of the Negro                                     by Carter Woodson

Class Struggle in Africa OR Africa Must Unite!      by Kwame Nkrumah

They Came Before Columbus                                    by Ivan Van Sertima

THEN

Afrocentricity OR The Afrocentric Idea                                               by Molefi Asante
Consciencism: Philosophy and Ideology for De-Colonisation            by Kwame Nkrumah

YURUGU: An African Centered Critique
of European Cultural Thought and Behavior"                                   by Marimba Ani
                                                                      
The Cultural Unity of Africa                                                               by Cheikh Anta Diop

The Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey                 edited by Amy Jacques Garvey

Race First: The Ideological and Organizational
Struggles of Marcus Garvey and the Universal
Negro Improvement Association                                                       by Tony Martin


If I were stranded on that proverbial tropical island:  YURUGU

O0

I own and have read all but those highlighted in blue.  If I were stranded on that proverbial tropical island:  The Destruction of Black Civilization by Chancellor Williams would be a great companion... 

The twin companion GLUED to the back of "DESTRUCTION" would be YURUGU!!!   :nod: :nod: :nod:

I got to have two books BISON66... :snicker :snicker :snicker
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 25, 2012, 12:12:18 PM
Ice,

Good choices!

Other posters:  Your choices?

CU1994?
SoFlo?
Neymar?
EB?
Ikester?
Pharoah?
...anyone else?

Your choices and recommendations?

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 26, 2012, 09:35:27 PM
Bump...
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on December 27, 2012, 12:25:46 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen,

I respectfully ask you to consider this statement seriously and give it some critical thought:

Quote
If you do not understand white supremacy (racism) — what it is and how it works — everything else you know will only confuse you.
Neely Fuller, Jr. in The United Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept (1984)

Better known simply as "The Code."
O0

Bison,

The quote you are referring to is why there is a disconnect among people of African descent, especially among our younger generation. Too many of us do not understand the far reaches of white supremacy and how it effects the African mind. That's why so many of us are pacified with material items and fail to to unite in a more nationalistic purpose.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on December 27, 2012, 12:31:50 PM
Some other readings to consider:

The Falsification of Afrikan Consciousness    Amos N.Wilson

AfriKan People and European Holidays:       Ishakamusa Barashango
A Mental Genocide

(The last one is especially relevant considering the time of year)




















Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 28, 2012, 10:32:57 PM
Bump
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 29, 2012, 10:58:02 AM
Good, Ice!

In the context of Ancient Black Civilizations, it is probably obvious how an appreciation for them and an acknowledgment of them as the work of "our" ancestors could have a positive effect on our psyche in modern times.

In addition, during this Kwanzaa season it is instructive to trace the common philosophical and cultural threads that connect Ancient Civilizations with current practices.

In another thread [http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php/topic,71045.new.html#new], there is information on this same article by the Founder/Creator of Kwanzaa, Dr. Maulana Ron Karenga, but this excerpt deserves to be highlighted in THIS context:

Quote
Certainly, one of the most significant ways to raise up and reaffirm the Nguzo Saba is through the Kwanzaa candle lighting ceremony. This ceremony called “Lifting Up the Light that Lasts” reflects the Sebaic teaching found in the Husia of ancient Egypt that says we, as a people, are “given that which endures in the midst of that which is overthrown” and that this enduring legacy is our spiritual and ethical values. And so at Kwanzaa we lift up these lasting values, which light the path to bringing good into the world.

            In lifting up the light of the principles, we think deeply about them, discuss them and recommit ourselves to them in an ongoing effort to make them truly a vital part of our daily lives. As we light each day one of the seven candles which represent the Seven Principles, we make a wish for the good each principle, when practiced, will bring into the world. And each wish unavoidably carries with it a commitment to work to bring it into being.

Husia is a term designating the text containing the history and philosophical basis of the Ancient Kemetan civilization.

Quote
Book Description
Publication Date: June 1989
A selection and retranslation of the oldest sacred text in the world, with critical commentaries on the richness of the African spiritual achievement and legacy in ancient Egypt. In this selection we read the earliest written record of the dawning of humanity's structured consciousness concerning spirituality and ethics. Here we find, for the first time in human history, the concepts of Maat (truth, justice, rightness), humans in the image of God, human dignity, judgment after death, free will, immortality of the soul, human equality, and social justice.
http://www.amazon.com/Selections-Husia-Sacred-Wisdom-Ancient/dp/0943412064
O0 1473
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 31, 2012, 12:56:12 AM
"Pops" - Mr. Armstrong - gives his own tribute to the greatness of African achievement.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQiY1vDgSMZ1SpMa14MY4zAAZ97TnFkbzPsnxAkUN6WCsU6vu8T)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6x7G6p-WfaFuVjkwu6_sy45rGZdh_8AaxMrbJKmO_JS9CnBfs2A)
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 02, 2013, 04:02:53 PM
A point that Neymar made earlier about Ancient Kemet being a crossroads is a valid one.

However, few people realize that many of those who were neighbors of Kemet were OTHER AFRICANS from Sudan and Ethiopia (per the ancient kingdoms' boundaries, not current countries bearing those names).

Quote
Third Dynasty of Egypt
2686–2667 BC

"The declining civilisation of the II Dynasty seems to have been broken up by an invasion from the south; the head of king Sa-nekht, the founder of the III Dynasty, being strikingly Sudanese in type."
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/PharaohSanakht.jpg)
http://wysinger.homestead.com/menes.html

Not all Euro scholars made the LIE or perpetuated the MYTH that Kemet was not built by African/Black people.

Petrie is one of those exceptions; one who believed his own eyes:

Quote
Professor William Petrie "The Father of Egyptian Pre-history"

Egyptologist Petrie['s] excavations at Nagada and Ballas in Upper Egypt nearly 100 years ago unearth[ed] nearly 2200 ancient graves. He wrote over a thousand books, articles and reviews reporting on his excavations and his finds.

Petrie, W.M. Flinders, The Making of Egypt, Sheldon Press, New York, 1939, p. 105:

Sudanese Dynasties:

"Scorpion king of the Anu [Aunu] culture".

"A breath of life came from the Sudan. This southern source was likewise the inspiration of . . ." the 1st, 2nd (Anu), 3rd [Sudanese], 4th, 5th, 12th [Sudanese] dynasties. "The 12th dynasty was undoubtedly descended from Amenemhat, the great vizier of the 11th dynasty. It seems, then, that he married the heiress of the Uah-ka family, as stated in the pseudo-prophecy, "A king shall come from the south whose name is Ameny, son a Nubian woman." She called her son by the family name Senusert, and he was the founder of the 12th dynasty, according to Manetho. The main sources of the 18th dynasty were Nubian and Libyan, depicted black and yellow, but not red of the Egyptians. Ahmos Nefertari was one of their black queens. Her black strain seems to come through the Tao I and II ancestry. The 19th dynasty was a direct mixture of races." Petrie states: "Decay continued in a divided kingdom; Egypt seemed hopeless until a fresh Ethiopian invasion stimulated it, as in earlier instances". This was the beginning of the 25th dynasty.

Menes
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/menes.jpg)

If he ain't a Brother............

How 'bout this one of Menes?
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/narmer.jpg)
Both from: http://wysinger.homestead.com/menes.html

O0 1,616
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on January 02, 2013, 09:49:39 PM
A point that Neymar made earlier about Ancient Kemet being a crossroads is a valid one.

However, few people realize that many of those who were neighbors of Kemet were OTHER AFRICANS from Sudan and Ethiopia (per the ancient kingdoms' boundaries, not current countries bearing those names).

Not all Euro scholars made the LIE or perpetuated the MYTH that Kemet was not built by African/Black people.

Petrie is one of those exceptions; one who believed his own eyes:

Quote
Professor William Petrie "The Father of Egyptian Pre-history"

Egyptologist Petrie['s] excavations at Nagada and Ballas in Upper Egypt nearly 100 years ago unearth[ed] nearly 2200 ancient graves. He wrote over a thousand books, articles and reviews reporting on his excavations and his finds.

Petrie, W.M. Flinders, The Making of Egypt, Sheldon Press, New York, 1939, p. 105:

Sudanese Dynasties:

"Scorpion king of the Anu [Aunu] culture".

"A breath of life came from the Sudan. This southern source was likewise the inspiration of . . ." the 1st, 2nd (Anu), 3rd [Sudanese], 4th, 5th, 12th [Sudanese] dynasties. "The 12th dynasty was undoubtedly descended from Amenemhat, the great vizier of the 11th dynasty. It seems, then, that he married the heiress of the Uah-ka family, as stated in the pseudo-prophecy, "A king shall come from the south whose name is Ameny, son a Nubian woman." She called her son by the family name Senusert, and he was the founder of the 12th dynasty, according to Manetho. The main sources of the 18th dynasty were Nubian and Libyan, depicted black and yellow, but not red of the Egyptians. Ahmos Nefertari was one of their black queens. Her black strain seems to come through the Tao I and II ancestry. The 19th dynasty was a direct mixture of races." Petrie states: "Decay continued in a divided kingdom; Egypt seemed hopeless until a fresh Ethiopian invasion stimulated it, as in earlier instances". This was the beginning of the 25th dynasty.

Menes
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/menes.jpg)

If he ain't a Brother............

How 'bout this one of Menes?
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/narmer.jpg)
Both from: http://wysinger.homestead.com/menes.html

O0 1,616

Other Euro Scholars that are to be commended are C.F. Volney, Gerald Massey, Albert Churchward, Godfrey Higgins, Herodotus, Diodorus Siculus  and Josephus... 

I am uncertain as to the ethnic origins of the latter three, but I believe the recorders of history would have noted the convincing evidence left behind, if they were not European since we are known to leave gigantic sculptures, paintings, drawings, implements, pottery etcetera wherever we have settled ;) ;) ;)...   
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 03, 2013, 09:36:20 AM
What Iceman said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
...since we are known to leave gigantic sculptures, paintings, drawings, implements, pottery etcetera wherever we have settled.

Iceman said:
WHEREVER!!!

Oh yes, our People traveled / migrated and left evidence behind....

We will soon explore that aspect of BLACK HISTORY and we will challenge once again "the legacy of disbelief."
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 03, 2013, 11:26:03 PM
Enjoy the great music and wonderful photos of:

AFRICAN QUEENS OF EGYPT AND NUBIA - PAST AND PRESENT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlGf3dTnhMc

O0 1,665
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 04, 2013, 04:22:53 PM
(http://wysinger.homestead.com/banner101.jpg)

Are these people Black?
O0

Nope! they're dark-skinned white people with braids........ duh! ;D
sorry I had to go there  :lol:
Sad but this is the garbage that's been put out for over 2000 years  :brickwall:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 04, 2013, 04:30:33 PM
WOW  :o  Good One ICEMAN

Destruction of Black Civilization                               by Chancellor Williams

Mis-Education of the Negro                                     by Carter Woodson

They Came Before Columbus     (still reading)         by Ivan Van Sertima

I have to say this again you guys need to check out

RETURN TO GLORY "The  Powerful  Stirring Of  The  Black  Man" by Joel Freeman
 
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/RTGseminar.htm

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 07, 2013, 09:25:39 AM
Thanks, Pharoah!!

..for BOTH posts!!!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 09, 2013, 11:18:05 PM
There is always room for disagreement among "reporters" (who are later regarded as "historians").  However, so many ancient writers reported that the Ancient Egyptians and 'Aethiopians" were Black that it seems more than obvious that they were.

Here are several examples:
Quote
Ancient Text Source (Primary):

It has been observed that the annual procession of the sacred ship so often represented on Egyptian monuments, and the return of the deity from Ethiopia after some days' absence, serves to show the Ethiopian origin of Thebes, and of the worship of Jupiter Ammon. "I think," says Heeren, after quoting a passage from Diodorus about the holy ship, "that this procession is represented in one of the great sculptured reliefs on the temple of Karnak. The sacred ship of Ammon is on the shore with its whole equipment, and is towed along by another boat. It is therefore on its voyage. This must have been one of the most celebrated festivals, since, even according to the interpretation of antiquity, Homer alludes to it when he speaks of Jupiter's visit to the Ethiopians, and his twelve days' absence."
Long, "Egyptian Antiquities" vol. 1 p. 96. Eustathius, vol. 1 p. 98, sq. (ed. Basil) (quoting from the the Iliad, written by Homer in 800 B.C.E )

Greek historian Diodorus Siculus. From his own statements we learn that he traveled in Egypt around 60 BC. His travels in Egypt probably took him as far south as the first Cataract.

"They (the Ethiopians) say also that the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians, Osiris ["King of Kings and God of Gods] having been the leader of the colony . . . they add that the Egyptians have received from them, as from authors and their ancestors, the greater part of their laws." Diodorus's declared intention to trace the origins of the cult of Osiris, alias the Greek Dionysus also commonly known by his Roman name Bacchus. The Homeric Hymn "To Dionysus" locates the birth of Dionysus in a mysterious city of Nysa "near the streams of Aegyptus" (Hesiod 287). Diodorus cites this reference as well as the ancient belief that Dionysus was the son of Ammon, king of Libya (3.68.1), and much of Book 3 of the Bibliotheka Historica is devoted to the intertwined histories of Dionysus and the god-favored Ethiopians whom he believed to be the originators of Egyptian civilization.  [emphasis added]
(1st century B.C., Diodorus Siculus of Sicily, Greek historian and contemporary of Caesar Augustus, Universal History Book III. 2. 4-3. 3)

Dionysus is Orisis reinvented. The mysteries were neither of Cretan origin nor a part of the original Greek religion is well established by the fact that the initiatory rites as practiced among these islanders were open to everyone, in contrast to the secret rituals of Byblus, Cyprus, Thrace, Samothrace, and Eleusis (Diodorus, Book V, 77). The mystery, which originated in Egypt, was imported into Greece long after Zeus and his family had migrated from Mt. Ida to Mt. Olympus.

Diodorus devoted an entire chapter of his world history, the Bibliotheke Historica, or Library of History (Book 3), to the Kushites ["Aithiopians"] of Meroe. Here he repeats the story of their great piety, their high favor with the gods, and adds the fascinating legend that they were the first of all men created by the gods and were the founders of Egyptian civilization, invented writing, and given the Egyptians their religion and culture. (3.3.2).

"Now they relate that of all people the Aithiopians [Ethiopians] were the earliest, and say that the proofs of this are clear. That they did not arrive as immigrants but are the natives of the country and therefore rightly are called authochthonous is almost universally accepted. That those who live in the South are likely to be the first engendered by the earth is obvious to all. For as it was the heat of the sun that dried up the earth while it was still moist, at the time when everything came into being, and caused life, they say it is probable that it was the region closest to the sun that first bore animate beings".
[160,000-year-old fossilized skulls uncovered in Ethiopia are oldest anatomically modern humans.]

Diodorus continues:

"They further write that it was among them that people were first taught to honor the gods and offer sacrifices and arrange processions and festivals and perform other things by which people honor the divine. For this reason their piety is famous among all men, and the sacrifices among the Aithiopians are believed to be particularly pleasing to the divinity,"

"The Aithiopians [Ethiopians] say that the Egyptians are settlers from among themselves and that Osiris was the leader of the settlement.The customs of the Egyptians, they say, are for the most part Aithiopian, the settlers having preserved their old traditions. For to consider the kings gods, to pay great attention to funeral rites, and many other things, are Aithiopian practices, and also the style of their statues and the form of their writing are Aithiopian. Also the way the priestly colleges are organized is said to be the same in both nations. For all who have to do with the cult of the gods, they maintain, are [ritually] pure: the priests are shaved in the same way, they have the same robes and the type of scepter shaped like a plough, which also the kings have, who use tall pointed felt hats ending in a knob, with the snakes that they call the asp (aspis) coiled round them."

"There are also numerous other Aithiopian tribes [i.e. besides those centered at Meroe]; some live along both sides of the river Nile and on the islands in the river, others dwell in the regions that border on Arabia [i.e. to the east], others again have settled in the interior of Libya [i.e. to the west]. The majority of these tribes, in particular those who live along the river, have black skin, snub-nosed faces, and curly hair".
(Diodous Siculus, Bibliotheke, 3. Translated by Tomas Hagg, in Fontes Historiae Nubiorum, vol. II: From the Mid-Fifth to the First Century BC (Bergen, Norway, 1996))
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aristotle (384-322 B.C.E.) Greek philosopher, scientist, and tutor to Alexander the Great.
Aristotle is said to have written 150 philosophical treatises.

"Too black a hue marks the coward as witness Egyptians and Ethiopians and so does also too white a complexion as you may see from women, the complexion of courage is between the two."
(Physiognomics, Vol. VI, 812a)

Aristotle makes reference to the hair form of Egyptians and Ethiopians: "Why are the Ethiopians and Egyptians bandy-legged? Is it because the bodies of living creatures become distorted by heat, like logs of wood when they become dry? The condition of their hair supports this theory; for it is curlier than that of other nations, and curliness is as it were crookedness of the hair."
(Physiognomics, Book XIV, p. 317)
http://wysinger.homestead.com/blackegypt101.html

There is a tremendous amount of testimony from those who had first- and second-hand experiences with the Ancient Egyptians.

Even Aristotle's negative comments about Ethiopians and Egyptians confirm that they were Black - and according to him not what we, these days, would call mulattoes.
O0 1,838
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on January 10, 2013, 02:22:07 AM
Some other readings to consider:

The Falsification of Afrikan Consciousness    Amos N.Wilson

AfriKan People and European Holidays:       Ishakamusa Barashango
A Mental Genocide

(The last one is especially relevant considering the time of year)


CU1994 I hope you actually have volumes I & II of Afrikan People and European Holidays.  These books affirmed my decision to walk away from some of the nonsensical holidays with strength of character and sound reasoning...  


I try not to badger people for doing what they do (practicing all European Holidays with no knowledge of their origins and current purpose) - I have always danced to the beat of a different drummer... I call it the "inner voice of sound reasoning"... :nod: :nod: :nod:  

I will have to purchase the Amos Wilson book - I know of this author but I have not read this book...

Thanks
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 10, 2013, 10:36:37 AM
Thanks, Pharoah!!

..for BOTH posts!!!
O0

No problem
I have the book and DVD on Return to Glory.
The presenter is a white dude  :o and some of the authors mentioned on this thread
are being interviewed on the DVD.  Enjoy  :clap:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 10, 2013, 05:28:14 PM
Some other readings to consider:

The Falsification of Afrikan Consciousness    Amos N.Wilson

AfriKan People and European Holidays:       Ishakamusa Barashango
A Mental Genocide

(The last one is especially relevant considering the time of year)


CU1994 I hope you actually have volumes I & II of Afrikan People and European Holidays.  These books affirmed my decision to walk away from some of the nonsensical holidays with strength of character and sound reasoning...  


I try not to badger people for doing what they do (practicing all European Holidays with no knowledge of their origins and current purpose) - I have always danced to the beat of a different drummer... I call it the "inner voice of sound reasoning"... :nod: :nod: :nod:  

I will have to purchase the Amos Wilson book - I know of this author but I have not read this book...
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion and your sharing of a link that supports this discussion with mountains of facts - we seek the "True History" of man, instead of just His Story" my brother...  ;) ;) ;)

Ice,

I had the opportunity to meet the late Rev. Ishakamusa Barashango in DC in the early and mid 70's.  I heard him speak at Ujamaa Shule.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ38zx5ci4S5MlR9e08Lz48NPc1OTHIVOYWw4vEyad9okUO0AQQ1w)
Sadly, I must admit that I (may have) underestimated him.  He was a a genial, smiling Brother who wore, as I recall a clerical collar.

I had the opportunity to buy his book, but I thought it was Christian-centric and did not do so.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on January 10, 2013, 07:59:55 PM
WOW  :o  Good One ICEMAN

Destruction of Black Civilization                               by Chancellor Williams

Mis-Education of the Negro                                     by Carter Woodson

They Came Before Columbus     (still reading)         by Ivan Van Sertima

I have to say this again you guys need to check out

RETURN TO GLORY "The  Powerful  Stirring Of  The  Black  Man" by Joel Freeman
 
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/RTGseminar.htm



PharoahNupe94, thanks for your contribution to the discussion and your sharing of a link that supports this discussion with mountains of facts - we seek the "True History" of man, instead of just His Story" my brother...  ;) ;) ;) ;)

Big PROPS to YOU, My Brother!!!  :nod: :nod: :nod:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on January 10, 2013, 08:17:03 PM
Ice,

I had the opportunity to meet the late Rev. Ishakamusa Barashango in DC in the early and mid 70's.  I heard him speak at Ujamaa Shule.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ38zx5ci4S5MlR9e08Lz48NPc1OTHIVOYWw4vEyad9okUO0AQQ1w)
Sadly, I must admit that I (may have) underestimated him.  He was a a genial, smiling Brother who wore, as I recall a clerical collar.

I had the opportunity to buy his book, but I thought it was Christian-centric and did not do so.
O0

We have all been their Bison66, but the "old school thought of not judging a book by its cover", should have kicked in for you...  Sorry about that...   ;) ;) ;)

Here's a personal story  -  my EX was concerned that I was reading books by Muslims, Buddhist, Confucist, Shitoist, Hindu's etc...  Which goes to show that, when someone is "immature" and "closed minded", anything outside of their personal indoctrination, can be perceived as a threat to their well-being...   :o :o :o

This was just one of many times she revealed her immaturity and is the dominant reason why she is my EX... She always said, corrupt communication corrupts!!!  I often asked, what's in these various scriptures that can be considered BADD and/or corrupt!!!  All she offered was a blank stare - ignorance is not Bliss my brother...  :snicker :snicker :snicker

IMHO, a Hue-Man can not grow, if he/she allows other people to constrain them with their personal idiosyncrasies...   :nono2: :nono2: :nono2:

In other words, your mind is not my mind, please allow me to explore at my own benefit or detriment - it's called LIVING...  :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 11, 2013, 09:50:20 AM
Yeah, Ice, book does not equal cover!!!!!

At the time I was more focused on political/historical subjects and was prioritizing my reading since I had more on my desk than I could handle as it was!!!!

Living is learning!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 12, 2013, 01:07:48 AM
Again, let us revisit the premise from the OP of this thread:

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

This explains why the "legacy of disbelief" (per Molefi Asante) is still so strong.  You know how it goes:

"There has GOT to be some other explanation for all of those Negro/African faces on those monuments in Kemet!!!  There HAS to be!!!  'Cause EVERYBODY knows that Black folks couldn't possibly have built that amazing civilization!  Maybe aliens did it!!"
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: EB on January 16, 2013, 11:30:19 AM
As was said back in the day, "Bro, YOU ARE DROPPING SCIENCE!!"

I endorse your great suggestions for getting started:
Anacalypsis, Marcus Garvey, Nile Valley Contributions, YURUGU, Psychotechnology of Brainwashing and The Destruction fo Black Civilization are essential for finding the truth and tending to a peoples self-esteem...  

I have and have read 3 of those.  (I have the two Garvey titles listed below.)

As I said, because Politics has always been - and since the 70's Pan-Africanism in particular - my main interest, my recommended book list has a somewhat different focus.  But it overlaps, complements, supports yours and IMO points to the ways to build upon the knowledge contained in the more historical books on your and my list.

My recommendations for starters:

Nile Valley Contributions to Western Civilization     by Anthony Browder
 
The West and the Rest of Us                                   by Chinweizu

How Europe Under-Developed Africa                       by Walter Rodney

Destruction of Black Civilization                               by Chancellor Williams

Mis-Education of the Negro                                     by Carter Woodson

Class Struggle in Africa OR Africa Must Unite!      by Kwame Nkrumah

They Came Before Columbus                                    by Ivan Van Sertima

THEN

Afrocentricity OR The Afrocentric Idea                                               by Molefi Asante
Consciencism: Philosophy and Ideology for De-Colonisation            by Kwame Nkrumah

YURUGU: An African Centered Critique
of European Cultural Thought and Behavior"                                   by Marimba Ani
                                                                      
The Cultural Unity of Africa                                                               by Cheikh Anta Diop

The Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey                 edited by Amy Jacques Garvey

Race First: The Ideological and Organizational
Struggles of Marcus Garvey and the Universal
Negro Improvement Association                                                       by Tony Martin


If I were stranded on that proverbial tropical island:  YURUGU

O0

I own and have read all but those highlighted in blue.  If I were stranded on that proverbial tropical island:  The Destruction of Black Civilization by Chancellor Williams would be a great companion... 

The twin companion GLUED to the back of "DESTRUCTION" would be YURUGU!!!   :nod: :nod: :nod:

I got to have two books BISON66... :snicker :snicker :snicker

I have read four of those books (Browder, Williams, Woodson, and Van Sertima) plus another book (not listed) by Diop.  I highly recommend them.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 18, 2013, 06:25:58 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, Brothers and Sisters and Any Still in d'Nile.

When anyone asks,  "Why bother with this ancient history?"
or
"What does this history have to do with our current situation or challenges?"

Please consider WHY - for centuries and continuing now to a certain extent - the leading scholars, religious leaders, popular historians AND just about all of our teachers and institutions found it necessary to mislead themselves, white people, Black people and everyone else about the accomplishments of white people and try to hide and destroy the contributions of Black people to world civilization.

For some of us, THAT effort and the questions RE: MOTIVES it raises are ENOUGH IN AND OF THEMSELVES to make it imperative that we learn the accurate history and share it with our People.

Consider the following observations backed up with sources aplenty.

Quote
The Western Dilemma:

If Egypt is a dilemma in Western historiography, it is a created dilemma. The Western historians, in most cases, have rested the foundation of what is called "Western Civilization" on the false assumptions, or claim, that the ancient Egyptians were white people. To do this they had to ignore great masterpieces on Egyptian history written by other white historians who did not support this point of view, such as Gerald Massey's great classic, Ancient Egypt, The Light of the World, (1907) and his other works, A Book of the Beginnings and The Natural Genesis. Other neglected works by white writers are Politics, Intercourse, and Trade of the Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, by A.H.L. Heeren (1833), and Ruins of Empires, by Count Volney (1787).

In the first chapter of his book, Dr. Diop refers to the Southern African origins of the people later known as Egyptians. Here he is on sound ground with a lot of support coming from another group of neglected white writers. In his book Egypt, British scholar Sir E.A. Wallis Budge says: "The prehistoric native of Egypt, both in the old and in the new Stone Ages, was African and there is every reason for saying that the earliest settlers came from the South." He further states: "There are many things in the manners and customs and religions of the historic Egyptians that suggests that the original home of their prehistoric ancestors was in a country in the neighborhood of Uganda and Punt." (Some historians believe that the biblical land of Punt was in the area known on modern maps as Somalia.)

European interest in "Ethiopia and the Origin of Civilization" dates from the early part of the nineteenth century and is best reflected in a little known, though important, paper in German Egyptologist Karl Richard Lepsius' Incomparable Survey of the Monumental Ruins in the Ethiopian Nile Valley in 1842-1844. The records found by Lepsius tend to show how Ethiopia was once able to sustain an ancient population that was numerous and powerful enough not only to challenge but, on a number of occasions, to conquer completely the populous land of Egypt. Further, these records show that the antiquity of Ethiopian civilization had a direct link with civilization of ancient Egypt.

Many of the leading antiquarians of the time, based largely on the strength of what the classical authors, particularly Greek historian Diodorus Siculus (1st century B.C.) and Stephanus of Byzantium, had to say on the matter, were exponents of the view that the ancient Ethiopians, or at any rate, the Black people of remote antiquity were the earliest of all civilized peoples and that the first civilized inhabitants of ancient Egypt were members of what is referred to as the Black race who entered the country as emigrants from Ethiopia. A number of Europe's leading writers on the civilizations of remote antiquity have written brilliant defenses of this point of view. Some of these writers are Brice, Count Volney, Fabre, d'Oliver, and Heeren. In spite of the fact that these writers defended this thesis with all the learning at their command and documented their defense, most of the present-day writers of African history continue to ignore their findings.

In 1825, German backwardness in this respect came definitely to an end.
In that year, Arnold Hermann Heeren (1760-1842), Professor of History and Politics in the University of Gottengen and one of the ablest of the early exponents of the economic interpretation of history, published, in the fourth and revised edition of his great work Ideen Uber Die Politik, Den Verkehr Und Den Handel Der Vornehmsten Volker Der Alten Weld, a lengthy essay on the history, culture, and commerce of the ancient Ethiopians, which had profound influence on contemporary writers in the conclusion that it was among these ancient Black people of Africa and Asia that international trade was first developed. He thinks that as a by-product of these international contacts there was an exchange of ideas and cultural practices that laid the foundations of the earliest civilizations of the ancient world. Heeren in his researches says: "From the remotest times to the present, the Ethiopians have been one of the most celebrated, and yet the most mysterious of nations. In the earliest traditions of nearly all the more civilized nations of antiquity, the name of this distant people is found. The annals of the Egyptian priests are full of them, and the nations of inner Asia, on the Euphrates and Tigris, have interwoven the fictions of the Ethiopians with their traditions of the wars and conquests of their heroes; and, at a period equally remote, they glimmer in Greek mythology. When the Greeks scarcely knew Italy and Sicily by name, the Ethiopians were celebrated in the verses of their poets, and when the faint gleam of tradition and fable gives way to the clear light of history, the lustre of the Ethiopians is not diminished."
https://vdocuments.site/the-key-to-all-sacred-mysteries-lies-in-ancient-egypt-5684560348e58.html
We a baaaaaaaad People!!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on January 19, 2013, 09:26:53 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen, Brothers and Sisters and Any Still in d'Nile.

When anyone asks,  "Why bother with this ancient history?"
or
"What does this history have to do with our current situation or challenges?"

Please consider WHY - for centuries and continuing now to a certain extent - the leading scholars, religious leaders, popular historians AND just about all of our teachers and institutions found it necessary to mislead themselves, white people, Black people and everyone else about the accomplishments of white people and try to hide and destroy the contributions of Black people to world civilization.

For some of us, THAT effort and the questions RE: MOTIVES it raises are ENOUGH IN AND OF THEMSELVES to make it imperative that we learn the accurate history and share it with our People.

Consider the following observations backed up with sources aplenty.

Quote
The Western Dilemma:

If Egypt is a dilemma in Western historiography, it is a created dilemma. The Western historians, in most cases, have rested the foundation of what is called "Western Civilization" on the false assumptions, or claim, that the ancient Egyptians were white people. To do this they had to ignore great masterpieces on Egyptian history written by other white historians who did not support this point of view, such as Gerald Massey's great classic, Ancient Egypt, The Light of the World, (1907) and his other works, A Book of the Beginnings and The Natural Genesis. Other neglected works by white writers are Politics, Intercourse, and Trade of the Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, by A.H.L. Heeren (1833), and Ruins of Empires, by Count Volney (1787).

In the first chapter of his book, Dr. Diop refers to the Southern African origins of the people later known as Egyptians. Here he is on sound ground with a lot of support coming from another group of neglected white writers. In his book Egypt, British scholar Sir E.A. Wallis Budge says: "The prehistoric native of Egypt, both in the old and in the new Stone Ages, was African and there is every reason for saying that the earliest settlers came from the South." He further states: "There are many things in the manners and customs and religions of the historic Egyptians that suggests that the original home of their prehistoric ancestors was in a country in the neighborhood of Uganda and Punt." (Some historians believe that the biblical land of Punt was in the area known on modern maps as Somalia.)

European interest in "Ethiopia and the Origin of Civilization" dates from the early part of the nineteenth century and is best reflected in a little known, though important, paper in German Egyptologist Karl Richard Lepsius' Incomparable Survey of the Monumental Ruins in the Ethiopian Nile Valley in 1842-1844. The records found by Lepsius tend to show how Ethiopia was once able to sustain an ancient population that was numerous and powerful enough not only to challenge but, on a number of occasions, to conquer completely the populous land of Egypt. Further, these records show that the antiquity of Ethiopian civilization had a direct link with civilization of ancient Egypt.

Many of the leading antiquarians of the time, based largely on the strength of what the classical authors, particularly Greek historian Diodorus Siculus (1st century B.C.) and Stephanus of Byzantium, had to say on the matter, were exponents of the view that the ancient Ethiopians, or at any rate, the Black people of remote antiquity were the earliest of all civilized peoples and that the first civilized inhabitants of ancient Egypt were members of what is referred to as the Black race who entered the country as emigrants from Ethiopia. A number of Europe's leading writers on the civilizations of remote antiquity have written brilliant defenses of this point of view. Some of these writers are Brice, Count Volney, Fabre, d'Oliver, and Heeren. In spite of the fact that these writers defended this thesis with all the learning at their command and documented their defense, most of the present-day writers of African history continue to ignore their findings.

In 1825, German backwardness in this respect came definitely to an end.
In that year, Arnold Hermann Heeren (1760-1842), Professor of History and Politics in the University of Gottengen and one of the ablest of the early exponents of the economic interpretation of history, published, in the fourth and revised edition of his great work Ideen Uber Die Politik, Den Verkehr Und Den Handel Der Vornehmsten Volker Der Alten Weld, a lengthy essay on the history, culture, and commerce of the ancient Ethiopians, which had profound influence on contemporary writers in the conclusion that it was among these ancient Black people of Africa and Asia that international trade was first developed. He thinks that as a by-product of these international contacts there was an exchange of ideas and cultural practices that laid the foundations of the earliest civilizations of the ancient world. Heeren in his researches says: "From the remotest times to the present, the Ethiopians have been one of the most celebrated, and yet the most mysterious of nations. In the earliest traditions of nearly all the more civilized nations of antiquity, the name of this distant people is found. The annals of the Egyptian priests are full of them, and the nations of inner Asia, on the Euphrates and Tigris, have interwoven the fictions of the Ethiopians with their traditions of the wars and conquests of their heroes; and, at a period equally remote, they glimmer in Greek mythology. When the Greeks scarcely knew Italy and Sicily by name, the Ethiopians were celebrated in the verses of their poets, and when the faint gleam of tradition and fable gives way to the clear light of history, the lustre of the Ethiopians is not diminished."

We a baaaaaaaad People!!
O0

Whoop, Whoop!!!  Ignorance is not bliss, but the truth will definitely set your free... 

Read a book - the esteem Marcus Garvey suggested doing this 4 hours per day... 

Sound advice my friend.   P E A C E!!!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 23, 2013, 10:41:04 AM
On page 6 of this thread, Iceman emphasized the point that NOT ALL European/white scholars mislead the world re: the racial identity of the creators of ancient civilizations.

IMO this is a critical point from more than one perspective. 

First, it shows that the evidence was there to show that Ancient Egyptians (Kemetans) were Black.  Which makes it all the more reprehensible and dishonest for otherwise well-respected historians to make completely bogus statements about history AND THE CAPABILITIES OF AFRICAN/BLACK PEOPLE!!!

Second:  Before economic and other motives became determinative and were needed to justify mass and sustained kidnapping, enslavement, rape, torture and murder of Africans by Europeans for CENTURIES, early scholars were under no pressure to ignore the evidence before their eyes.  Those early scholars should be given credit for being honest.

Third:  Despite the total discrediting of the pseudo-science once promoted to "prove" the "superiority" of Europeans, the "legacy of denial" of African greatness continues although it is slowly being rolled back due, in part, to advances in science (e.g., DNA examination of mummies).  More on that later.

But in those early days, as Iceman said, there were those Euro scholars who told the truth that the evidence bespoke.  Picking up from my earlier post citing the German scholar, Arnold Hermann Heeren (1760-1842).

Quote
"...When the Greeks scarcely knew Italy and Sicily by name, the Ethiopians were celebrated in the verses of their poets, and when the faint gleam of tradition and fable gives way to the clear light of history, the lustre of the Ethiopians is not diminished."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The French writer Constantin-François Volney (1757-1820), in his important work, The Ruins of Empires, extends this point of view by saying that the Egyptians were the first people to "attain the physical and moral sciences necessary to civilized life." In referring to the basis of this achievement he states further that, "It was, then, on the borders of the Upper Nile, among a Black race of men, that was organized the complicated system of worship of the stars, considered in relation to the productions of the earth and the labors of agriculture; and this first worship, characterized by their adoration under their own forms and national attributes, was a simple proceeding of the human mind."
Volney's Ruins; or, Meditation on the Revolutions of Empires, Boston, J. Mendum, 1869.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

English traveller Thomas Legh, member of the British Parliament, visited Egypt & Nubia in 1812-1814, was one of the first Europeans to visit the archaeological sites above the First Cataract and to publish plates of ruins that no longer exist today. Legh writes: "There has been considerable dispute about the colour of the ancient Egyptians, some authors asserting that they were Negroes, while others maintain that the present Copts are their descendants, and attempt to prove their supposition by the appearance of mummies, which exhibit complexions of dusky brown, lips occasionally thick, but the nose frequently aquiline. The opinion that the former inhabitants of the country were Negroes is founded chiefly on the expressions used by Herodotus, who calls them 'dark-coloured and woolly haired', and on the character of the head of the Sphinx, which has the Negro features, and may be justly supposed to offer a correct representation of the countenance of the Egyptians. On the other hand, with respect to the present Copts, it cannot be denied, that the dark hue of their hair and eyes, the former of which is frequently not more curled than is occasionally seen among Europeans, their dusky brown complexions and aquiline noses, all correspond pretty exactly with the paintings to be found in the tombs of Thebes. It is remarkable, however, that the inhabitants of the island of Elephantine (i.e. at the border of Nubia) are nearly black. But notwithstanding their colour, the females of Elephantine are conspicuous for their elegant shapes, and are, upon the whole, the finest women we saw in Upper Egypt."
(Thomas Legh, Narrative of a Journey in Egypt and the Country beyond the Cataracts, Second Edition London, John Murray, 1817).
http://wysinger.homestead.com/blackegypt101.html

So, Fourth and IMO CRITICALLY IMPORTANT, current day Afrocentric Scholars and their predecessors like Carter G. Woodson, W.E.B. Du Bois, Drusilla Dunjee Houston, Willis N. Huggins, J. A. Rogers, and Charles C. Seifort (same link), are not spinning fairy tales or engaging in wishful thinking as is sometimes asserted by those still in D'Nile.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 23, 2013, 03:32:46 PM
For two examples of how the "ruling" (MOSTLY Euro) Egyptologists ignored, sabotaged and rejected solid scientific research (or efforts) by other scholars, see pages 1 & 2 of the Introduction of Black Genesis:  The Prehistoric Origins of Ancient Egypt for accounts of how Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop and Dr. Martin Bernal, both esteemed, highly qualified scholars, were treated by their colleagues.
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Genesis-Prehistoric-Origins-Ancient/dp/159143114X/ref=pd_rhf_ee_s_cp_2_YFTV
Click on "See Inside this book" (under the image of the cover)

The authors, Bauval and Brophy, of "Black Genesis" have employed the most recent cutting edge technologies to reveal that the roots of the Nile Valley Civilization are in THE SAHARA  (which was not always a desert!) and the lands to the south of it.  Tony Browder describes some of their technique as astroarcheological!  The use of satellite imaging to detect structures beneath the surface.

The "legacy of disbelief" cannot last must longer as the evidence mounts - except in the minds of those with racism so deeply engrained that no amount of logic or facts can make a dent in their pretend ANd pretentious ignorance.
O0 2331
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 24, 2013, 12:46:00 PM

PharoahNupe94, thanks for your contribution to the discussion and your sharing of a link that supports this discussion with mountains of facts - we seek the "True History" of man, instead of just His Story" my brother...  ;) ;) ;) ;)

Big PROPS to YOU, My Brother!!!  :nod: :nod: :nod:

No problem and thank you
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 24, 2013, 02:45:14 PM
Again, let us revisit the premise from the OP of this thread:

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

This explains why the "legacy of disbelief" (per Molefi Asante) is still so strong.  You know how it goes:

"There has GOT to be some other explanation for all of those Negro/African faces on those monuments in Kemet!!!  There HAS to be!!!  'Cause EVERYBODY knows that Black folks couldn't possibly have built that amazing civilization!  Maybe aliens did it!!"
O0

That's why you see the lips and nose have been chipped off most of the statues
and they tell people that age and gravity have set in........WOOOW  :o

Crazy man  :crazy:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 25, 2013, 11:11:34 AM
Hey guys,

I hope that I dont get stoned on this statement but hear me out.

Alot of people have debated about Cleopatra being black or white.
Well I think black people claim her because she act, dressed and lived like an Egyptians but she was not an Egyptians.  :nono2:
She was brought to Egypt after the Greeks took over.
Alot of people didnt know that her dad was Greek and his name is Ptolemy XII Auletes.
I havent found alot of information about her mother so I dont know what her (mother) race was but If I was a guessing man then I would say that she probably looked exotic.  
So, I tell people let the white folks have Cleopatra.  Plus, Historians claimed that she screwed every king or ruler that showed up when she ruled Egypt. :tiptoe:

So what are your thoughts on Cleopatra?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 25, 2013, 12:49:11 PM
Hey guys,

I hope that I dont get stoned on this statement but hear me out.

Alot of people have debated about Cleopatra being black or white.
Well I think black people claim her because she act, dressed and lived like an Egyptians but she was not an Egyptians.  :nono2:
She was brought to Egypt after the Greeks took over.
Alot of people didnt know that her dad was Greek and his name is Ptolemy XII Auletes.
I havent found alot of information about her mother so I dont know what her (mother) race was but If I was a guessing man then I would say that she probably looked exotic.  
So, I tell people let the white folks have Cleopatra.  Plus, Historians claimed that she screwed every king or ruler that showed up when she ruled Egypt. :tiptoe:

So what are your thoughts on Cleopatra?


Strong Point, Pharoah!!!

Her Dad was Greek.  She came to prominence as the thousands of years of Kemet/Egypt's civilization began to wane and its neighbors exploited internal weaknesses and sought to control its territory.

Claiming her as Egyptian AND Black is an example of the danger mentioned earlier in this thread.  When it is exposed - as you have - that she probably was not Black, "deniers" use that case to attempt to discredit factual claims about the identity of the founders of the ancient civilization predating her by millenia.


Consequently, Pharoah, you deserve accolades - not stones - for highlighting this.
Asante Sana!!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 28, 2013, 12:12:03 PM

Consequently, Pharoah, you deserve accolades - not stones - for highlighting this.
Asante Sana!!
O0

Thanks Bison66
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 28, 2013, 12:16:32 PM
  • Forgive the tangent, but it reminds me of the list of Black US inventors that is often circulated.  When examined more closely, it is a list of holders of patents for ironing boards, combs, etc.  Of course, there is a HUGE difference between filing and receiving a patent and actually INVENTING something.  I've read with sympathy the hurting comments by those, who have had this brought to their attention by apparent racists, who use that information to disparage the abilities of Black people.

So true.  alot of people dont know that alot of your great american inventors had black scientists working with them and within that time.  It was a BRILLIANT  move because his black assistant will not get credit for doing anything.  :nod:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 28, 2013, 01:12:43 PM
Quote
It was a BRILLIANT  move because his black assistant will not get credit for doing anything.

Hmmmmmm...  Good point.
Reminds me of how credit was denied to the creators of great civilizations and how it is STILL going on.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on January 28, 2013, 04:18:56 PM
Hey guys,

I hope that I dont get stoned on this statement but hear me out.

Alot of people have debated about Cleopatra being black or white.
Well I think black people claim her because she act, dressed and lived like an Egyptians but she was not an Egyptians.  :nono2:
She was brought to Egypt after the Greeks took over.
Alot of people didnt know that her dad was Greek and his name is Ptolemy XII Auletes.
or ruler that showed up when she ruled Egypt. :tiptoe:

So what are your thoughts on Cleopatra?


Truth is the key - we don't claim all famous/historical peoples that managed to spend some time in Ancient Egypt and/or gain some notoriety while they sojourned there - we espouse the facts and the truths, nothing more and nothing less...  Thanks for contributing this tid bit of historical knowledge in this forum discussion Pharoah... 
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on January 28, 2013, 04:38:24 PM
Hey guys,

I hope that I dont get stoned on this statement but hear me out.

Alot of people have debated about Cleopatra being black or white.
Well I think black people claim her because she act, dressed and lived like an Egyptians but she was not an Egyptians.  :nono2:
She was brought to Egypt after the Greeks took over.
Alot of people didnt know that her dad was Greek and his name is Ptolemy XII Auletes.
I havent found alot of information about her mother so I dont know what her (mother) race was but If I was a guessing man then I would say that she probably looked exotic.  
So, I tell people let the white folks have Cleopatra.  Plus, Historians claimed that she screwed every king or ruler that showed up when she ruled Egypt. :tiptoe:

So what are your thoughts on Cleopatra?


I agree with you. From my understanding, she was. Ptolemy. The later Dynasties had a Greek influence. When people say Kemet was a multiracial society, they often try to apply the racial make up of later dynasties to that of the earlier dynasties. I know this has been previously discussed in this thread.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 28, 2013, 10:36:34 PM
Iceman:
DITTO

CU1994:
DITTO

But the deniers are still out there, including the self-promoting Egyptian (former) Director of Antiquities often seen on TV.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/309764/thumbs/r-ZAHI-HAWASS-FIRED-large570.jpg)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/18/egypts-iconic-antiquities_n_901257.html

He does not accept that the ancient "Egyptians" were Black people.

Then there are the REAL DENIERS who claim that Ancient Egypt was created by "western" white people.  Try to keep from laughing when they claim it was the Irish:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7RSMGMU2jc

These guys blame the British royal family for creating the "myth" that ancient Egypt was a Black civilization!!!!!!  And, of course, they can't resist a swipe at President Obama.

After about the 10 minute mark they REALLY begin to display their paranoia and FINALLY the guy being interviewed drops the charade and says what he REALLY believes:  Africans COULD NOT have developed the civilization. 

So the circular logic is complete:  Africans couldn't have done it, consequently, they didn't do it.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on January 29, 2013, 01:24:56 AM
Iceman:
DITTO

CU1994:
DITTO

But the deniers are still out there, including the self-promoting Egyptian (former) Director of Antiquities often seen on TV.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/309764/thumbs/r-ZAHI-HAWASS-FIRED-large570.jpg)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/18/egypts-iconic-antiquities_n_901257.html

He does not accept that the ancient "Egyptians" were Black people.

Then there are the REAL DENIERS who claim that Ancient Egypt was created by "western" white people.  Try to keep from laughing when they claim it was the Irish:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7RSMGMU2jc

These guys blame the British royal family for creating the "myth" that ancient Egypt was a Black civilization!!!!!!  And, of course, they can't resist a swipe at President Obama.

After about the 10 minute mark they REALLY begin to display their paranoia and FINALLY the guy being interviewed drops the charade and says what he REALLY believes:  Africans COULD NOT have developed the civilization. 

So the circular logic is complete:  Africans couldn't have done it, consequently, they didn't do it.
O0

To those that would continue to lie in the face of so much evidence well the original Hue-mans will practice and manifest another AKAN symbol to make you look like the fools you are - SANKOFA - followed by the posting of the truth....  LOL!!!!!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on January 29, 2013, 06:17:52 AM
Iceman:
DITTO

CU1994:
DITTO

But the deniers are still out there, including the self-promoting Egyptian (former) Director of Antiquities often seen on TV.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/309764/thumbs/r-ZAHI-HAWASS-FIRED-large570.jpg)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/18/egypts-iconic-antiquities_n_901257.html

He does not accept that the ancient "Egyptians" were Black people.

Then there are the REAL DENIERS who claim that Ancient Egypt was created by "western" white people.  Try to keep from laughing when they claim it was the Irish:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7RSMGMU2jc

These guys blame the British royal family for creating the "myth" that ancient Egypt was a Black civilization!!!!!!  And, of course, they can't resist a swipe at President Obama.

After about the 10 minute mark they REALLY begin to display their paranoia and FINALLY the guy being interviewed drops the charade and says what he REALLY believes:  Africans COULD NOT have developed the civilization. 

So the circular logic is complete:  Africans couldn't have done it, consequently, they didn't do it.
O0

To those that would continue to lie in the face of so much evidence well the original Hue-mans will practice and manifest another AKAN symbol to make you look like the fools you are - SANKOFA - followed by the posting of the truth....  LOL!!!!!

Yes Iceman Sankofa but be ready to use Akofena when necessary.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on January 29, 2013, 06:56:22 PM
Iceman:
DITTO

CU1994:
DITTO

But the deniers are still out there, including the self-promoting Egyptian (former) Director of Antiquities often seen on TV.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/309764/thumbs/r-ZAHI-HAWASS-FIRED-large570.jpg)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/18/egypts-iconic-antiquities_n_901257.html

He does not accept that the ancient "Egyptians" were Black people.

Then there are the REAL DENIERS who claim that Ancient Egypt was created by "western" white people.  Try to keep from laughing when they claim it was the Irish:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7RSMGMU2jc

These guys blame the British royal family for creating the "myth" that ancient Egypt was a Black civilization!!!!!!  And, of course, they can't resist a swipe at President Obama.

After about the 10 minute mark they REALLY begin to display their paranoia and FINALLY the guy being interviewed drops the charade and says what he REALLY believes:  Africans COULD NOT have developed the civilization. 

So the circular logic is complete:  Africans couldn't have done it, consequently, they didn't do it.
O0

To those that would continue to lie in the face of so much evidence well the original Hue-mans will practice and manifest another AKAN symbol to make you look like the fools you are - SANKOFA - followed by the posting of the truth....  LOL!!!!!

Yes Iceman Sankofa but be ready to use Akofena when necessary.

You are absolutely correct until the truth is accepted by all humans the "sword of war" shall be ready to "slice and dice" those that would denigrate our heritage and our glorious past and promising future as a people...

 
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 30, 2013, 12:17:45 PM
Iceman:
DITTO

CU1994:
DITTO

But the deniers are still out there, including the self-promoting Egyptian (former) Director of Antiquities often seen on TV.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/309764/thumbs/r-ZAHI-HAWASS-FIRED-large570.jpg)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/18/egypts-iconic-antiquities_n_901257.html

He does not accept that the ancient "Egyptians" were Black people.

Then there are the REAL DENIERS who claim that Ancient Egypt was created by "western" white people.  Try to keep from laughing when they claim it was the Irish:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7RSMGMU2jc

These guys blame the British royal family for creating the "myth" that ancient Egypt was a Black civilization!!!!!!  And, of course, they can't resist a swipe at President Obama.

After about the 10 minute mark they REALLY begin to display their paranoia and FINALLY the guy being interviewed drops the charade and says what he REALLY believes:  Africans COULD NOT have developed the civilization.  

So the circular logic is complete:  Africans couldn't have done it, consequently, they didn't do it.
O0

 >:(   Maaaan dont get me started with this FOOL (HAWASS)
He is a puppet.  I hear Arab-Egyptian running there mouth saying
this is our history and blah...blah...blah

Dont get me wrong. Some Arabs was there during the good ole days and contributed big time but they wasnt the majority like it is today.  :nono2:
I told an Arab-Egyptian this at my last job and he started stuttering  :lol:
I told him if you want to get an idea what the ancient egyptian looked like then look at the Somalians and Ethiopians  :nod:
Funny we got along very well after that discussion :nod:

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 30, 2013, 12:21:50 PM
When people say Kemet was a multi racial society, they often try to apply make up of later dynasties to that of the earlier dynasties. I know this has been previously discussed in this thread.

So true CU so true  :nod:
I'm sure that we can all agree that there was some race mixing with african and arab.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 30, 2013, 10:35:36 PM
I'm NOT anywhere close to being an expert on Arabs, but from my reading, there WERE NO Arabs in ancient times.  Y'all tell me if I missed it.

The ancient peoples in the area, (in addition to the Irish!!!  LOL) were Africans (Ethiopians, Nubians, etc.), Asiatics and later on Mediterraneans, like the Greeks.

And, of course - by conquest or by consent - there was intermingling as J. A. Rogers explained so well in his 3 part series, "Sex and Race" (Marketing genius, wasn't he?) and "Nature Knows No Color Line."

I've noticed something in the (usually white so-called supremacist) videos posted on youtube in weak attempts to rebut the still controversial fact that ancient Kemet was a Black civilization:
- Proving that it is difficult to argue with STONE, those videos mostly use paintings to make their case. 

It is fair to have an honest scholarly disagreement re: speculation about the reasons for color choices (religious, symbolic, etc) used to depict Egyptians, BUT HOW DO YOU ARGUE WITH STONE!!!!!

Simply put - aside from Akhenaten - they don't.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6nu8lv1oi1rq7hhvo1_400.jpg)
Some scholars say that his unusual features were symbolically done to emphasize the revolutionary changes he brought about: moving the capital, changing the religion to a worship of one god (thereby making enemies of the priests and devotees of the plural gods, resulting, it appears, in his murder) and more.

But as our grandparents used to say, "The exception proves the rule."
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 31, 2013, 12:17:31 PM
I'm NOT anywhere close to being an expert on Arabs, but from my reading, there WERE NO Arabs in ancient times.  Y'all tell me if I missed it.

The ancient peoples in the area, (in addition to the Irish!!!  LOL) were Africans (Ethiopians, Nubians, etc.), Asiatics and later on Mediterraneans, like the Greeks.

And, of course - by conquest or by consent - there was intermingling as J. A. Rogers explained so well in his 3 part series, "Sex and Race" (Marketing genius, wasn't he?) and "Nature Knows No Color Line."

I've noticed something in the (usually white so-called supremacist) videos posted on youtube in weak attempts to rebut the still controversial fact that ancient Kemet was a Black civilization:
- Proving that it is difficult to argue with STONE, those videos mostly use paintings to make their case. 

It is fair to have an honest scholarly disagreement re: speculation about the reasons for color choices (religious, symbolic, etc) used to depict Egyptians, BUT HOW DO YOU ARGUE WITH STONE!!!!!

Simply put - aside from Akhenaten - they don't.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6nu8lv1oi1rq7hhvo1_400.jpg)
Some scholars say that his unusual features were symbolically done to emphasize the revolutionary changes he brought about: moving the capital, changing the religion to a worship of one god (thereby making enemies of the priests and devotees of the plural gods, resulting, it appears, in his murder) and more.

But as our grandparents used to say, "The exception proves the rule."
O0

Well when I said Arabs I was really referring to people from the middle east.

MY BAD  :brickwall: thanks for correcting me Bison
I'm telling you man those folks are on that dark-skin white man stuff.
:crazy:

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 31, 2013, 01:56:54 PM
No, Bro, I wasn't correcting you. 

I was/am not familiar with the "origin" of the term, Arab, nor when it began to be applied to people in that part of the world.  I'm always ready to learn.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on January 31, 2013, 04:43:32 PM
No, Bro, I wasn't correcting you. 

I was/am not familiar with the "origin" of the term, Arab, nor when it began to be applied to people in that part of the world.  I'm always ready to learn.

O0

Oh ok. Since Egypt did alot of trading with the assyrians and other middle eastern tribes. Im sure that some of the people made there way down and lived in Egypt. 
Those trades and exchanging knowledge probably is what laid the ground work for the invasion from the Assyarians.   :brickwall:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 01, 2013, 12:14:12 AM
That sounds reasonable to me, but a bit speculative.

All,

Here's another example of the "legacy of disbelief."

If you are not familiar already with the art of Benin, be sure to check it out after this very short (!:30)video: 
It must have been a race superior to the negro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnq3ceVcV3Q

They (We!!!) couldn't possibly have done that!!!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 01, 2013, 12:06:34 PM
One more shout out to the deniers.  

Some of them point to wall carvings in Egypt/Kemet depicting people with yellow hair as PROOF POSITIVE that the world's "most" ancient and dramatic (AND documented) civilization was a white/European one!
                                              :lmao:                                     :lmao:
(http://mathildasdiary.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/blondegy21.jpg?w=544&h=408)
http://mathildasdiary.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/so-the-anthropology-blog-breaks-300-hits-a-day-and-blond-egyptians/
(If you go to that site, be sure to read the comments, especially the one from "Osirion."  And note the lack of substantive response by the blogger.)

But, somehow - in the minds of those who are "not so much a believer(s)" in white so-called supremacy - that is determinative.

I guess these kids are white, too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buOT7ZkgUXI

The lengths to which some will go to DENY African/Black achievement is actually amusing, isn't it?  

NONE of this is to argue that there was no PRESENCE of non-Africans in Kemet, especially after thousands of years of civilization.   But that does not change the root or trunk of the (African) tree, just because a branch (European) was grafted onto the tree......well after it had matured!!!!

But the impact of these lies, distortions and obfuscations on the self-concept and psyche of Europeans and African/Blacks, alike, are manifold, highly negative and ultimately have been disastrous for African/Black people for centuries.  Those impacts are not hypothetical or merely an academic exercise to determine the historical facts;  they are serious factors in the real world of politics & economics.  
CAN I GET AN AMEN(-HOTEP)? ?

The lies about "European achievements" in Africa (Ironic, ain't it?) and the denial of African achievement in Africa formed the essential AND indispensable foundation for the belief that African/Black people were/are inferior to Europeans/whites AND for modern racism.  The rationale for this assertion is contained in the OP, so I won't repeat it.  

That foundation twisted the theology and practice of Christianity (and perhaps Islam) and science itself and thereby:
- justified and served as rationale for the inhuman exploitation, mass murder, systematic rape, torture and terrorization by Europeans/whites of Africans/Blacks for centuries.......and
- it lies at the base of current racist attitudes which, among others things, causes people to reject the legitimacy of RE-ELECTED PRESIDENT OBAMA.  (Since this IS the Politics Forum)
O0

P.S.  To highlander, if you are reading this thread.  You once mentioned my "passion."  Read this post not as an example of it, but as THE REASON for it.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 02, 2013, 12:04:54 AM
They want it all Bison  :shrug:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 02, 2013, 08:19:40 PM
They want it all Bison  :shrug:

Dr. Ani explains the reasons for that in YURUGU.

From a layman's perspective the attitude you mention is symptomatic of a deep-seated insecurity.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 03, 2013, 01:20:39 AM
Dr. John Henrik Clarke was a visiting professor when I was in grad school and I had the blessing to hear him teach - just once.  I will never forget the experience.

Here he lays some foundation for the facts outlined in this thread.  Other scholars like Diop also speak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX0GxrAW3Ho  EXPOSING THE LIES - PART 1
By this time, Dr. Clarke had lost most of his eyesight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Gy0X63jrQ  EXPOSING THE LIES - PART 2
Keep your finger ready and the cursor over the pause button so you can catch all the printed info.


For an extended illustrated lecture, check out Legrand Clegg's series:
When Blacks Ruled the World
https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=WKGRSkVvzqk&feature=endscreen
Fasten your seat belts.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 03, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee76/ervgotti3/Book_of_Gates_Seti1a-1.jpg)

The four races of the world: a Libyan, a Nubian, a Syrian, and an Egyptian. An artistic rendering, based on a mural from the tomb of Seti I.

Honestly, I've never seen a Libyan or Syrian that light.  :shrug:
I would assumed that they would have a yellowish color but ole well
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 04, 2013, 08:18:29 PM
Hey guys,

I hope that I dont get stoned on this statement but hear me out.

Alot of people have debated about Cleopatra being black or white.
Well I think black people claim her because she act, dressed and lived like an Egyptians but she was not an Egyptians.  :nono2:
She was brought to Egypt after the Greeks took over.
Alot of people didnt know that her dad was Greek and his name is Ptolemy XII Auletes.
I havent found alot of information about her mother so I dont know what her (mother) race was but If I was a guessing man then I would say that she probably looked exotic.  
So, I tell people let the white folks have Cleopatra.  Plus, Historians claimed that she screwed every king or ruler that showed up when she ruled Egypt. :tiptoe:

So what are your thoughts on Cleopatra?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s480x480/600711_519607698083137_952977164_n.jpg)

A recommendation to all:  Next time you are in NYC, go to Harlem and spend some time in Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture (now a part of the NYC Library system).  A tremendous resource.  Named for a Puerto Rican Black man whose extensive private collection formed the basis for the original collection of books, papers and other materials.

Quote
The Division of Negro Literature, History and Prints — the forerunner to today’s Schomburg Center — opened in 1925 as a special collection of the 135th Street Branch library to meet the needs of a changing community. The Division first won international acclaim in 1926 when the personal collection of the distinguished Puerto Rican-born Black scholar and bibliophile, Arturo Alfonso Schomburg, was added to the Division. His collection included more than 5,000 books; 3,000 manuscripts; 2,000 etchings and paintings; and several thousand pamphlets. Schomburg served as curator of the Division from 1932 until his death in 1938. In 1940, the Division was renamed the Schomburg Collection of Negro Literature, History and Prints in honor of its founder. In 1972, the Schomburg Collection was designated as one of The Research Libraries of The New York Public Library and became the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture. The expansion of the Schomburg Center in 1991 created spaces for exhibition galleries; the renovated American Negro Theatre; and the 340-seat Langston Hughes Auditorium, in which concerts, forums, lectures, performances, and other special events have taken place. Today, the Schomburg Center contains over 10,000,000 items and provides services and programs for constituents from the United States and abroad.
http://www.nypl.org/locations/schomburg/about/history
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 07, 2013, 12:16:06 AM
This video (link below) is an excerpt of what appears to be something shown perhaps on the BBC - not sure.

The person who posted it has added his/her own commentary in captions, but I draw your attention to the substance of the presentation.

At the beginning, though I don't think it's identified, the host/narrator speaks of, I think, the ancient ruins of Mutapa*  (called Monomotapa by the Portuguese) or Great Zimbabwe in southern Africa.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Tower%2C_Great_Zimbabwe1.jpg/180px-Tower%2C_Great_Zimbabwe1.jpg)
This Kingdom is from a much later period (15th Century AD) than the era we have been discussing in Kemet in B.C.E. (Before the Common Era).

However, one of the real values of the video is the history he outlines and the reason for the change in Europeans' racial attitudes.  On this board, I was once challenged when I made reference to European culture before it was "infested with racism" (or words to that effect).  Here, this man makes the same point - better perhaps than I did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKOWERczykU
O0 2753


*Kingdom of Mutapa
Quote
History

The origins of the ruling dynasty at Mutapa go back to some time in the first half of the 15th century.[4] According to oral tradition, the first "Mwene" was a warrior prince named Nyatsimba Mutota from the Kingdom of Zimbabwe sent to find new sources of salt in the north.[4] Prince Mutota found his salt among the Tavara, a Shona subdivision, who were prominent elephant hunters. They were conquered,[5] a capital was established 350 km north of Great Zimbabwe at Zvongombe by the Zambezi.[6]

Expansion

Mutota's successor, Mwenemutapa Matope, extended this new kingdom into an empire encompassing most of the lands between Tavara and the Indian Ocean.[5] The Mwenemutapa became very wealthy by exploiting copper from Chidzurgwe and ivory from the middle Zambezi. This expansion weakened the Torwa kingdom, the southern Shona state from which Mutota and his dynasty originated.[5] Matope's armies overran the kingdom of the Manyika as well as the coastal kingdoms of Kiteve and Madanda.[5] By the time the Portuguese arrived on the coast of Mozambique, the Mutapa Kingdom was the premier Shona state in the region.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Mutapa.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 08, 2013, 01:29:20 AM
OK, some folks quibble with paint colors.

And some deniers can find a few carvings in stone which seem not to depict African/Black people as Pharoahs or other leaders of the civilization in Kemet...

But what about arguing with X-RAYS? ? ?

Quote

X-raying the Pharaohs:

The authors of X-raying the Pharaohs (1978) are James E. Harris director of the expedition to x-ray the pharaohs, professor of dentistry and chairman of the Department of Orthodontics at the University of Michigan; Kent R. Weeks, an American Egyptologist and member of the expedition, is associate professor and chairman of the Department of Anthropology at The American University in Cairo wrote:

Seqenenra Tao: "His entire lower facial complex, in fact, is so different from other pharaohs that he could be fitted more easily into the series of Nubian and Old Kingdom Giza skulls than into that of later Egyptian kings. Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian--that is, non-Egyptian--origin for Seqenenra and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stand in need of considerable re-examination".

Written in the book X-raying the Pharaohs states that Donald Redford, a modern Canadian Egyptologist. . . . "believes Hatshepsut's attainment of the throne represents the final attempt in the Eighteenth Dynasty to establish a strong matrairchate in Egypt. He cites the unusual importance of earlier queens in this period --Tetisheri, Ahhotep I, Ahmose-Nefertari--as evidence of such a tendency, and here suggest that the influences for such a matriarchally determined order of succession might have come from Nubia. The possibility that the rulers of the Seventeenth Dynasty were themselves at least part Nubian".
James E. Harris, Kent R. Weeks, X-raying the Pharaohs, 1973, p. 135; 17th & 18th dynasty family tree.
http://wysinger.homestead.com/blackegypt101.html

Are there doubters still present?
O0 2782
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 08, 2013, 04:45:28 PM
 :clap: Thanks Bison
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 08, 2013, 04:47:00 PM
Check it out.
Black Genesis: The Prehistoric Origins of Ancient Egypt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdiPr_rrodg
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 09, 2013, 09:42:56 AM
Thanks, Pharoah!

I will check out the rest of the interview.  Suggestion to other posters: skip the first 17:40 because that part is mostly criticism of Hawas.  THEN Bauval gets into good info about sites in Egypt.

Bauval impresses me in regard to his use of astroarcheology referenced earlier in this thread.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 09, 2013, 12:13:43 PM
Thanks, Pharoah!

I will check out the rest of the interview.  Suggestion to other posters: skip the first 17:40 because that part is mostly criticism of Hawas.  THEN Bauval gets into good info about sites in Egypt.

Bauval impresses me in regard to his use of astroarcheology referenced earlier in this thread.
O0

Well spoken Bison  :bow: :clap:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 09, 2013, 12:20:48 PM
Here is a good one too.....it's about 40 mins
this is one of my favorites

Check it out.
BIBLICAL ISRAELITES WERE BLACK, And Still Are Today!  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHcKzzgYnMs
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on February 10, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
Here is a good one too.....it's about 40 mins
this is one of my favorites

Check it out.
BIBLICAL ISRAELITES WERE BLACK, And Still Are Today!  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHcKzzgYnMs


Outstanding Post Pharoah!!!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 11, 2013, 10:37:25 AM
Here is a good one too.....it's about 40 mins
this is one of my favorites

Check it out.
BIBLICAL ISRAELITES WERE BLACK, And Still Are Today!  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHcKzzgYnMs


Outstanding Post Pharoah!!!

 ;D
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on February 12, 2013, 09:49:02 PM
Bump!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 13, 2013, 11:09:04 PM
It is hilarious to me to hear or witness people, Black or white, with the reflexive reaction "It doesn't matter what color Jesus was.."  when they have ONLY worshiped in places that depict him as a white, blue eyed, dirty blond dude.  And, as the video highlighted, the only time it comes up is when the discussion turns to the evidence and logic that The Nazarene was not as usually depicted.

If the Pastor of a white congregation were to OVERNIGHT replace ALL depictions of Jesus in the church from that "accepted" image to one that was MORE HISTORICALLY AND ANTHROPOLOGICALLY CORRECT, there would be panic, outage and insurrection and the Pastor would, in many cases, be sent packing.

While watching a TV special on what Jesus looked like and showing some of those very early Christian era depictions of Jews and Jesus as brown-skinned with curly "Afro" hair, I told Mrs. Bison66 "Watch, they will revert to showing the blond Jesus for the rest of the program."  Sure enough, that's exactly what they did.  After giving lip service to Jesus being a person of color, they fell back into the comfort zone of Michaelangelo's rendering of his nephew.

For white so-called supremacy IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT JESUS BE WHITE.  HE MUST BE WHITE.  Give him blond hair and blue eyes to remove any doubt.  HE MUST BE WHITE, because "God would never have sent his Son" into this world as a Black or brown man.

Jesus MUST BE WHITE in order to justify and bolster racism.  How could Jesus possibly be of an "inferior" race?  No way, no how!!!  Not in the mind of believers in white so-called supremacy.

So, thanks, Pharoah, for posting that video!  Now, I'll finish watching it.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 14, 2013, 04:46:49 PM
It's amazing how people prefer to stay in there comfort zone.
:lol: :clap:
Im glad you enjoyed that video.  ;D 
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: soflorattler on February 14, 2013, 05:05:51 PM
Here is a good one too.....it's about 40 mins
this is one of my favorites

Check it out.
BIBLICAL ISRAELITES WERE BLACK, And Still Are Today!  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHcKzzgYnMs

Sorry about that Pharoah. I inadvertently posted that link in the General Discussion forum 2 day after you posted it here. A great video, though. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 16, 2013, 11:41:46 PM
(http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/243685/slide_243685_1416263_free.jpg?1345820789000)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/marco-rubio-response_n_2653478.html#slide=1416263
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 24, 2013, 03:31:59 PM
What Iceman said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
...since we are known to leave gigantic sculptures, paintings, drawings, implements, pottery etcetera wherever we have settled.

Iceman said:
WHEREVER!!!

Oh yes, our People traveled / migrated and left evidence behind....

We will soon explore that aspect of BLACK HISTORY and we will challenge once again "the legacy of disbelief."
O0

Iceman opened this door for us a while back and now is a good time to walk through it into the AFRICAN WORLD PRESENCE.  Muchas Gracias & Asante Sana, Iceman!!!

We have already touched on the FACT that:
- the Greeks adopted and renamed the gods from Kemet
- many early European depictions of the Christian Madonna and Child were of Black people
- the Blackamoors (The Moors) who ruled Spain & Portugal for FOUR centuries (almost TWICE AS LONG as the USA has existed) contributed mightily to the emergence of Europe from the "Dark" Ages into the Renaissance.
(http://blackheritageriders.org/_images/moors.jpg)

Oh, I hear a skeptic who doubts the grandeur of the Blackamoor civilization in the Iberian peninsula, so...
Quote
By the beginning of the 9th century, Spain had become the gem of Europe with its bristling capital at Cordoba. At a time when London was no more than a wide spot in the road, Cordoba boasted a half-million citizens, 700 mosques, 300 public baths, and over 70 libraries. The twenty-one suburbs had paved and lit streets, with marble and mosaic floors and balconies. Artificial gardens and fountains graced the city proper, and paper, still unheard of to the west, was in ample supply.

Nearing the end of the 1st Millennium, Cordoba was the intellectual center of Europe. Students from all over Europe came to be taught by Arab, Christian, and Jewish scholars in the great Library of Cordoba, which held over 600,000 manuscripts. The rich and complex society had a tolerant view of other faiths. Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived together in harmony, and the society had a literary base. Private land ownership was encouraged, as well as banking among Jews. Non-believers in the Muslim faith were simply levied a special tax.
http://jamesjkrefft.hubpages.com/hub/Moors-in-Spain-A-Height-of-a-Muslim-Nation

(http://s3.hubimg.com/u/144558_f520.jpg)

So, let us now turn to the VERY early presence of Africans in EUROPE.

DNA studies show that Europe was initially populated by people with the same DNA as "Nigerians."  So, for those of us who have always wondered (since Columbus "discovered" America) WHO DISCOVERED EUROPE?, it seems clear from the science that Nigerians discovered Europe.   :)

In this video - the tone of which in places I take issue with - Dr. Runoko Rashidi provides information about the ancient African/Black presence in the Pacific, including Australia.  BEGINNING AT 21:43, he talks about the African presence in Europe (which is more properly called western Asia based on NON_Eurocentric geographical definitions).  His slide presentation starts at 35:58.  Quality is not that great, but it is still worth the effort.  Can't find Part 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22YAlZwylzE

Not my style, but the excellent question gone begging is:
Why does the earliest known art in Europe depict an African person?

This approach by the genius Ivan van Sertima is more to my personal liking.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0ENJvLg1bhkV74N4Zy6cVjHf2pJD__1PyFix6ahLZ9hUDzxEf63VGLzc)
Descripton of video:
Quote
African Presence in Early Europe puts in perspective the history of the role of the African in world culture. The authors consider recent archaeological and anthropological studies that present new evidence of little known contributions by African people to the advancement of European civilization. Articles detail the physical and cultural presence of Africans in Europe.

Topics covered include: the debt owed to the Moors for the Renaissance; Leo Africanus's Geographical History of Africa as a source for Shakespeare's vision of Othello; the Africoid Grimaldis in Europe; the black Moors; the origin of certain aspects of Greek philosophy; African popes; and black madonnas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKgyAxqD9mQ < This is Part 1 of several parts.  It is from 1987.

The first few minutes are a very personal and well-deserved tribute to Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfRIloFB8z8ceNU5Wu_Sr9WxiuhaoTpL1rYXucNjS-DtQoqGyYjyR9-fxd)

At 7:25 van Sertima really starts to deliver and literally "drop science."

In re: to the OP:
Quote
in other words, ''white people'' do not share a common genetic heritage; instead, they come from different lineages that migrated from Africa and Asia. Such mixing is true for every race. ''All living humans go back to one common ancestor in Africa,'' explains Paabo. ''But if you look at any history subsequent to that,'' then every group is a blend of shallower pedigrees. So, he says, ''I might be closer in my DNA to an African than to another European in the street.'' Genetics, he concludes, ''should be the last nail in the coffin for racism.''

But it will take a while for many people to catch up with the science, discard incorrect views based on prejudice and ignorance and get over a "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy.

Some folks will never overcome their ignorance and self-hating stupidity.  Education can't cure stupidity.

Quote
Over time, ''genetics will help beat down racist arguments,'' says Eric Lander, a world-renowned geneticist at M.I.T. ''But they will need to be beaten down, because they will keep coming up.''
This and the previous quote are from: http://web.mit.edu/racescience/in_media/what_dna_says_about_human/index.html
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 25, 2013, 12:55:06 AM
Well done Bison....well done  :bow: :clap: :bow:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on February 25, 2013, 04:40:29 PM
What Iceman said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
...since we are known to leave gigantic sculptures, paintings, drawings, implements, pottery etcetera wherever we have settled.

Iceman said:
WHEREVER!!!

Oh yes, our People traveled / migrated and left evidence behind....

We will soon explore that aspect of BLACK HISTORY and we will challenge once again "the legacy of disbelief."
O0

Iceman opened this door for us a while back and now is a good time to walk through it into the AFRICAN WORLD PRESENCE.  Muchas Gracias & Asante Sana, Iceman!!!


Karibu!  Thanks for giving me credit for mentioning this, but more so, thanks for elaborating on the point and espousing in such detail, the evidence left in Europe, the research by Dr Ivan Van Sertima and the powerful truths and research unearthed by a gifted "Son of Africa", in the person of Dr Cheik Anta Diop,  as well as, the link to the Biblical Israelite Reality instead of "His-Story" on the subject...   

Thanks, this particular forum has been quite a noteworthy contribution to those of us that want truth versus "His-story" on the origin of man and specifically on the African's TRUE Place in World History... 

You my brother are a true Historian, Scholar and Gentleman...  Asante Sana Bison66!!!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Strike79 on February 25, 2013, 05:14:21 PM
 :o............man, I hadn't visited this thread in awhile and was literally STUNNED to discover that you bruhs are absolutely teaching SERIOUS black history in here.  Man, y'all have gone back to ANTIQUITY to drop knowledge.  :o

Big props to B66 and other peeps for bringing the lessons.  :clap:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 25, 2013, 05:44:19 PM
What Iceman said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
...since we are known to leave gigantic sculptures, paintings, drawings, implements, pottery etcetera wherever we have settled.

Iceman said:
WHEREVER!!!

Oh yes, our People traveled / migrated and left evidence behind....

We will soon explore that aspect of BLACK HISTORY and we will challenge once again "the legacy of disbelief."
O0

Iceman opened this door for us a while back and now is a good time to walk through it into the AFRICAN WORLD PRESENCE.  Muchas Gracias & Asante Sana, Iceman!!!


Karibu!  Thanks for giving me credit for mentioning this, but more so, thanks for elaborating on the point and espousing in such detail, the evidence left in Europe, the research by Dr Ivan Van Sertima and the powerful truths and research unearthed by a gifted "Son of Africa", in the person of Dr Cheik Anta Diop,  as well as, the link to the Biblical Israelite Reality instead of "His-Story" on the subject...   

Thanks, this particular forum has been quite a noteworthy contribution to those of us that want truth versus "His-story" on the origin of man and specifically on the African's TRUE Place in World History... 

You my brother are a true Historian, Scholar and Gentleman...  Asante Sana Bison66!!!

I am a Student....ONLY.
But I do thank you for your kind words.

FTR:  It was PharaohNupe, not I, who posted the link on Black Israelites.  That video was surprisingly (to me) ON POINT.  I am not much into faith-based history, so I didn't know quite what to expect.  HOWEVER, that video relied on historical records that, for the most part, are uncontestable.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 25, 2013, 11:37:19 PM
:o............man, I hadn't visited this thread in awhile and was literally STUNNED to discover that you bruhs are absolutely teaching SERIOUS black history in here.  Man, y'all have gone back to ANTIQUITY to drop knowledge.  :o

Big props to B66 and other peeps for bringing the lessons.  :clap:

No doubt!
:clap: B66 got it started then Iceman showed up with his BONECHILLIN information.  

(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee76/ervgotti3/thankulord.gif)
Thank You
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on February 25, 2013, 11:41:33 PM

I am a Student....ONLY.
But I do thank you for your kind words.

FTR:  It was PharaohNupe, not I, who posted the link on Black Israelites.  That video was surprisingly (to me) ON POINT.  I am not much into faith-based history, so I didn't know quite what to expect.  HOWEVER, that video relied on historical records that, for the most part, are uncontestable.
O0

We're all students when it comes to history  :nod:


Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 26, 2013, 12:03:53 AM
:o............man, I hadn't visited this thread in awhile and was literally STUNNED to discover that you bruhs are absolutely teaching SERIOUS black history in here.  Man, y'all have gone back to ANTIQUITY to drop knowledge.  :o

Big props to B66 and other peeps for bringing the lessons.  :clap:

Strike,

I want to thank you.  Truly.

I appreciate those positive and encouraging comments as I am sure the other contributors do as well.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 26, 2013, 12:13:47 AM
Ivan van Sertima gives more information on the origin of the Moors (a term first used by the Romans or Greeks, I think he said, to refer to WEST AFRICANS), their influence in Iberia, etc.

There appears to be some overlap in the recordings, but this is one is labeled Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=EQXKuaawD10

He deals with the Moors in the second half, but the first half is fascinating as well.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 26, 2013, 11:06:06 AM
For a thorough presentation on the Moors in Europe - Iberia, Ireland, Scotland and "more" (pun intended), check out this sharp Brother.

Wait 'til he gets to his conversation with the dude on the airplane and the "hidden" meaning of the "Mc" or "Mac" in front of many Scottish names!!!!

BIG MAC, INDEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy with me for a moment the absolute IGNORANCE of the deniers (mentioned earlier in this thread) who say that the PROOF that the Irish built the civilization in the Nile Valley that THE modern day IRISH HAVE THE SAME DNA AS THE KEMETANS.

Who came first?  DUH!!!!!!


http://moorishrenaissance.com/Videos/History/The-History-Of-The-Moors-In-Spain-Jose-Pimienta-Bey

Incidentally, the Brother introducing the speaker is Atty Alton Maddox, my classmate at HU.

This Brother shares some serious KNOWLEDGE.  In Part 2, he goes into the details of how the works of literature and science of the Moors (African AND Arab) were translated into Spanish and Latin.

From other sources (white ones, by the way), I have learned that after the fall of the Moorish empire in Europe, the works of the Moorish scholars were translated (first into Hebrew by Jews who understood Arabic and then by Catholic priests) into Latin and other European languages.  Those sources maintained that during Europe's "Dark" Age, those books were sent or made available in Florence and other centers of the European Renaissance, known in eurocentric terms as simply, THE Renaissance.

In PART 3, Dr. Pimienta Bey BRINGS IT ON HOME!!!
 
If ONLY we could give this information (along with any dissenting views) intravenously to everyone!!  School curricula!  Study groups in every town, village and neighborhood!!  Prizes for deeper research!!!  Required courses at HBCU's, at least, and everywhere else, too!!!  EACH ONE TEACH ONE (or more)!!!

How different would TODAY'S SELF-perceptions of whites/Europeans AS WELL AS Blacks/Africans be.......IF THE TRUTH OF THIS HISTORY HAD ALWAYS BEEN TOLD, TAUGHT, LEARNED AND UNDERSTOOD?

Partially because of economic interests, greed and the need for moral/religious justification for mass kidnapping, murder, torture, rape, theft and exploitation.....

For centuries, Euro definitions of peoples and the context and content of HISTORY, CULTURE, RELIGION (EVEN GOD, HIM/HERSELF), AND OTHER ASPECTS OF CIVILIZATION have governed the intellectual space of humankind - with rare and mostly ignored exceptions.  So, we can and must forgive ourselves and others for our and their ignorance.

However, ALL THAT HAS CHANGED!
  
At this point in time, IGNORANCE IS WILLFUL and, in some cases, IT IS PRETEND "IGNORANCE" and REAL MALICIOUSNESS.


However, the "Legacy of Disbelief" lives on.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on February 28, 2013, 10:31:34 PM
Bump
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 02, 2013, 01:15:27 AM
Meanwhile, Black/African people developed civilizations and empires in several parts of the African continent.


Here are the major empires in various parts of The Continent:
(http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.edu/teachers/curriculum/m25/activity2_clip_image006.gif)
http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.edu/teachers/curriculum/m25/activity2_clip_image006.gif

Some of these empires predate the Moorish invasion of Iberia, Scotland and Ireland by HUNDREDS of years.

West African Empires, Dates: 400-1591 C.E.
by Ruben G Mendoza
http://www.academia.edu/353292/West_African_Empires_Dates_400-1591_C.E.

(C.E. = Common Era = A.D. = Anno Domini = year of Our Lord)

This list of empires throughout the world is interactive. You can select African empires (which includes European colonial intervention in Africa) and list them according to the year of their estimated peak.
http://empires.findthedata.org/d/a/Africa

The oldest kingdom listed is:  Old Kingdom of Egypt -2630 to -2181

Quote
Old Kingdom is the name commonly given to the period in the 3rd millennium B.C.E. when Egypt attained its first continuous peak of civilization in complexity and achievement - the first of three so-called "Kingdom" periods, which mark the high points of civilization in the lower Nile Valley (the others being Middle Kingdom and the New Kingdom)

Allow me to note, that this is NOT a list put together by Afrocentric scholars.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 03, 2013, 12:18:37 AM
More (Moor!) info related to Africans in Europe.

This is from a review of an art exhibition in a Baltimore musueum printed in the NYTimes just last year.  Europeans, it turns out, before their culture was mortally infected with racism, sometimes accepted many Africans and "mulattos" among them on a fairly routine basis.

Here a description of the work of the famous Paul Rubens:
Quote
Rubens’s sitter is so attractive, we’d love to know his story. And we’d especially love to know the story — the true, gossip-free story — behind the sitter in an Agnolo Bronzino portrait whose name has survived. He’s Alessandro de’ Medici, who ruled Florence for seven years before being assassinated in 1537, and who is thought by historians to have been the illegitimate child of a pope-to-be, Clement VII, and a black or biracial woman.
(http://uploads6.wikipaintings.org/images/agnolo-bronzino/alessandro-de-medici.jpg!xlMedium.jpg)
Alessandro’s dark skin was remarked on by contemporaries, who nicknamed him Il Moro (the Moor), a generic term for African in 16th-century Italy. In Bronzino’s painting the subject’s complexion is inconclusively ruddy. But another portrait, this one of the ruler’s young daughter Giulia, has been cited by some scholars, who point to the child’s black facial features, as confirmation of Alessandro’s ethnic heritage.

Together these portraits probably attest to the reality of African DNA flowing through Medici blood, and through the very center of the European High Renaissance. But they are at least as interesting for the reactions they have provoked. Until recently art history has ignored, denied or at best tiptoed around their racial content, just as it has skimmed over the black presence in Europe as a whole. The Walters exhibition not only asserts that presence, but positions it as a contributing factor to a crucial moment in the forming of European cultural identity.

By the early 17th century that moment seemed to have passed. Europe’s attention turned to the Americas and to Asia. Africa became what it had started out being for Europe: a supply center for natural resources and cheap labor. Old attitudes of fear and disdain toward Africa — still the dominant view in the West — returned and hardened.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/arts/design/african-presence-in-renaissance-europe-at-walters-museum.html?pagewanted=all

Here's a painting of “The Three Mulattoes of Esmereldas” (1599)
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/11/09/arts/09REVEAL_SPAN/09REVEAL_SPAN-articleLarge.jpg)

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 03, 2013, 10:33:38 AM
More information about that art exhibit.  If you're near New Jersey...

Quote
....The exhibition will travel to the Princeton University Art Museum in New Jersey Feb. 16–June 9, 2013.

“We hope that this exhibition will be a vehicle for conversations about cultural identity,” said Director Gary Vikan. “Through the vehicle of great art, visitors will be able to make personal connections with Africans who lived in Europe 500 years ago.”

An African presence was partially a consequence of the European drive for new markets beginning in the late 1400s. This included the importation of West Africans as slaves, supplanting the trade of slaves of Slavic origin. There was also increasing conflict with North African Muslims and heightened levels of diplomatic and trade initiatives by African monarchs. Publications by African scholars and writers in Europe contributed to a more balanced view of the African presence than previously available from European artists and writers alone.

The first half of the exhibition explores the conditions that framed the lives of Africans in Europe, including slavery and social status, perceptions of Africa, the representation of Africans in Christian art, blackness and cultural difference as well as the aesthetic appreciation of blackness. The second half shifts to individuals themselves as slaves, servants, free and freed people, and diplomats and rulers. The visitor’s experience concludes with St. Benedict (the Moor) of Palermo, widely revered in his lifetime, but also one of the African-Europeans of the 1500s with the greatest impact today.

“Recognizing the African presence within Renaissance society opens a new window into a time when the role of the individual was becoming recognized—a perspective that remains fundamental today,” said Curator of Renaissance and Baroque Art Joaneath Spicer. “We are just beginning to understand the contributions of people of African ancestry in that society, so the exhibition raises as many questions as it answers.”

BTW....The reference to Slavic people as slaves (there ethnic name GAVE ITS NAME TO SLAVERY) should help the one who believed (and said so on this board) that slavery and racism were always intertwined.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 04, 2013, 11:04:30 PM
Here's a follow up to the references to and the map of kingdoms in Africa on this or the previous page.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/734481_528580230519595_215205999_n.jpg)

^ Note the wide arrow originating in southwest Africa - Angola/Namibia. ^
^ The wider the arrow, the more people kidnapped. ^

From the "Don't Judge a Convict from his Stripes File":

Some decades ago I "taught" a course in Black History in a Federal Penitientiary (McNeil Island -jokingly referred to as Baby Alcatraz or Alcatraz North).

There was, among others (Panthers, US, Nation of Islam) an organization in there called the Descendants of Angola African Society - never heard of them before or since then.  

[Checking just now I see there is an incorporated group with that (similar) name.  They were set up in nearby Oregon a few years after I was introduced to the group.  Who knew?]

Since I had only heard of enslaved Africans brought to the US from West Africa, I did not think these brothers had an historical basis for their claim re; Angola.  I found out years later (never having checked it out for myself in those years B.I. = Before Internet) that they were quite correct historically and that I had been ignorant of that history.

Africans/Blacks in the Americas (North, South & Central) are a blended product of the survivors ("Only the Strong Survive" - Jerry Butler) of those many regions/kingdoms shown on the map of Africa - making us truly International Africans.

I was hired to teach by the community college, but those Brothers taught me!!  They had studied longer and harder than I had at that time.  They inspired me - a beginner - to learn my People's history.  If he's out here anywhere, I thank Ron Ben Jar in particular.  Brother Ron, I've been studying ever since!!  Asante Sana!!

Just for the record, I was a "visiting professor!!!"  LOL

The larger lesson is that our educational system had not done a good job of teaching world or African history and that, as such, I was also a victim of 'the legacy of denial.'  

The personal lesson was: humility.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 05, 2013, 03:42:00 AM
Check out the reviews of the collection of articles edited by Ivan van Sertima published as AFRICAN PRESENCE IN EARLY EUROPE

For me THIS is the most significant commentary in the reviews (as far as I have read so far):
Quote
This book was written in 1985, I read the ninth edition of 2006. The historical data is largely still fresh. However, human knowledge currently doubles every five years. Therefore, I strongly advise to skip the chapter on paleoanthropology and most certainly the two on genetics. Instead read one or two very recent genetic books. Ivan Van Sertima would be thankful, as all the new findings in these areas support his claims more than the lacking data possibly could in the ancient genetic years of the 1980s. Since there is no respective update/word of caution in this new printing I have subtracted one star of an otherwise simply astonishing book. And I thought I knew a bit about African influence on Europe already! Interesting, how the system makers and keepers were/are able not to make this knowledge known to the larger public. Considering that some of the chapters are rather reviews and updates of yet older, some indeed much older books.

This book doesn’t only provide information in the sense of new/revealed data, but occasionally indeed in an enlightening way.

http://omasiali.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/african-presence-in-early-europe/

Another book cited on the same blog:

Quote
In Black Spark, White Fire, award-winning journalist Richard Poe explores new and controversial evidence from linguistics, archaeology, and anthropology, suggesting that Egyptian explorers may have landed in Greece 3 to 4,000 years ago, reared cities and pyramids, established cults, and founded royal dynasties. In the process, the spark they lit may have kindled the fire of Western Civilization.

Black Spark, White Fire solves the riddles to these questions and more:

• Why do so many of the cities, mountains, and rivers in Greece have names that are not Greek, but Egyptian and Phoenician?

• Who were the mysterious “Minyans” who built pyramids in Greece, some 2,000 years before the Golden Age of classical Athens?

• Did an Egyptian army once march across Russia leaving colonists in the Caucasus?

• Did the first Egyptian pharaohs come from Nubia — a lost civilization deep in the heart of Africa?

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 10, 2013, 01:25:16 PM
As has been mentioned, "The Legacy of Disbelief" is a real factor in how we accept - or not - new information about, for example, the role - or even the existence - of Blacks/Africans in early history.

When "new" info is brought to our attention, we measure it against what we "know" based on what we were taught.

So, I admit that I am a bit skeptical about a few of the particulars here and would like to see confirmation of them from scholars whom I have learned are careful and trustworthy with re: to the claims they make.  Of course, some of the other particulars have been confirmed.

Quote
The original “knights” of England were Black! --including the knights of King Arthur’s Round Table!  That’s why they were called “knights” after the night or darkness of their skin.
 
An African king named Gormund ruled Ireland during the Anglo-Saxon period in England reports the medieval historian Geoffrey of Monmouth.
 
Halfdan the Black was the first Africoid king to unite Norway.
 
When the British Isles were invaded by the Vikings some of these Norse raiders were Africoid.  In fact, different varieties of ‘Viking’ Africans lived in Scandinavia during the middle ages and are frequently mentioned in Viking sagas.
 
There were Black Huns!  The dictionary describes the Huns as “a fierce barbaric race of Asiatic nomads who led by Attila, ravaged Europe I the 4th and 5th centuries A.D.”  The Gothic writer Jordannes described their infamous leader, Attila the Hun as having “a flat nose and swarthy complexion.”  He describes the types of Huns he had seen as “of dark complexion, almost black... broad shoulder, flat noses and small eyres.”
 
The African Moors dominated southwest Europe during the Middle Ages for 700 years: 711-1492 A.D. African Moors ruling southwest Europe centuries, darkened whites in this area, especially Portal, which was “the first example of a Negrito (African) republic in Europe?"
 
Moors ruling Scotland in the 10th century mixed with whites until the black skin color disappeared.
(http://stewartsynopsis.com/images/charcorocharlottesophiabritain.gif)
(1744 - 1818)
Charlotte Sophia - Wife
King George III - England
http://stewartsynopsis.com/europe_conquered_by_africans.htm
Legacy of denial (maybe) in some cases; however, that painting cannot be denied!
O0 3439
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 13, 2013, 07:53:54 PM
PLEASE, PLEASE, somebody explain to me how it came to be that the figures - including Christ - on Charlemagne's crown ARE BLACK PEOPLE!!!!

http://www.beforebc.de/all_europe/02-16-800-00-14.html

What happened?  Did hackers break into the code and change the color (and noses and hair) of some of the key persons in the history of Christendom?
O0 3511
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 13, 2013, 10:15:26 PM
A Second One for Today.

A quick reference chart:

CHRONOLOGY OF AFRICANS IN EUROPE PRIOR
TO THE PERIOD MENTIONED IN THE POST ABOVE

(http://stewartsynopsis.com/fig05-3.jpg)
32,000 BC                   ^Venus of Willendorf figurines^ carved
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKUCbQpoJzEkzKFazpJoHsMctyV-FRm854bS3EnN9zOjTU0tVxFm0r8RYSGA)
1897 BC                      ^Egyptian King Senwosret^ colonizes Greece and founded Athens
(http://stewartsynopsis.com/images/senusret32.jpg)
690 BC                       ^Nubian Taharka^ leads force into Spain
202 BC                       Carthaginian Hannibal defeats Rome
256 BC - AD 253          Thousands of Africans serve in Roman Army*
AD 711-1492               Islamic Africans invade and rule Spain

http://stewartsynopsis.com/europe_conquered_by_africans.htm
* * * * *

So in reference to the previous post, obviously, those who created the crown for Charlemagne - and he himself - were quite used to having Africans/Blacks around AND having some of them in positions of authority and respect.
Then, after Charlemagne
AD 827                       Moors begin invasion of Sicily and Rome
                                                      (which would last 700 years)

All of this African presence in Europe predates the infestation of deep-seated racism - as opposed to a normal amount of ethnocentrism and "nationalism." -  into European culture, which has grown to the point of being metastasized.

D'Nile is part IMO of that sickness.
O0

*An African Emperor - Septimius Severus (AD 145-211)

Quote
Septimius Severus was the first Roman emperor not born and raised in Italy. His father's family originally came from Libya (Leptis Magna) and his mother's family were Etruscans (Italian). His grandfather, a knight of the Roman empire, owned land near Rome, but Septimius grew up in North Africa with his father.

Septimius married Julia Domna, a Syrian, daughter of a high priest. The name Domna is derived from the archaic Arabic word dumayna, meaning 'black'. Septimius and Julia had two sons, Caracalla, the elder, born in AD 188, and Geta.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/blackhistory/early_times/romans.htm#top

P.S.  For anyone concerned: 
NONE of this information is designed to legitimize African/Black people by showing that our People were in Europe.  Too often, IMO, Black history is presented with examples of Blacks participating in European history (e.g., how the Black seamstress assisted the widow of Abe Lincoln or Crispus Attucks, the first person to die in the American Revolution). 

Consequently, I believe (Can you tell?) that we should "center" ourselves in our own history, as Dr. Molefi Asante would put it.  From there - rather than from the periphery of somebody ELSE's history - we can gain a full appreciation not only for who we are as a People, but the significance of our own genius, development and our tremendous contributions to world civilization.  For our children, it helps create the perspective needed to rebuild our Peoplehood.

THIS recent part of the thread follows a rather extended series of posts by several posters  :bow:   :clap:   :bow:  laying down the foundation for African/Black excellence and achievement on our own AND in our own Native land.  Teach!!

Shortly we will move on to other regions of the world to "explore" the African World-Wide Presence.

We a BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD People!
 :hugs:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on March 14, 2013, 12:25:37 AM
An eye opening book by Nana Banchie Darkwah, Ph D, titled "The Africans Who Wrote The Bible: Ancient Secrets Africa and Christianity Have Never Told" is one of the best text ever composed to break down  the original sacred text that were translated into our modern "King James Version" of the Bible - after several translations of course.  

Stewarts Synopsis Web site actually has a like to some interesting information, but I recommend you read the book and "renew your mind" and "transform your hearts" to the truth.  

Bison66 links to Charlemagne is so on point.  http://www.beforebc.de/all_europe/02-16-800-00-14.html


religion

1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

This book by Dr Darkwah was very eye opening:  http://www.amazon.com/The-Africans-Who-Wrote-Bible/dp/097019000X

BISON66 has been posting links to information that I spent $$$ on from 1987 through 2010, that I personally read information on in books, its a blessing to be able to get all of this information free over the World Wide Web for those of you who did not know what www was at the beginning of your website URL...   :lol: :lol: :lol:  

Go here for some info on the book mention by Dr Darkwah:  http://stewartsynopsis.com/africans_wrote_the_bible.htm


"When I was a child I act as a child, but when I became grown I put childish nonsense aside"

And as brother Spike Lee said at the end of his earlier movies, "Wake Up!!!"

 P E A C E!!!  
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on March 17, 2013, 10:06:11 PM
Bump
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 21, 2013, 03:41:12 AM
BREAKING NEWS FROM ANCIENT TIMES!!!

Discovery of sundial moves back earliest known instrument by "1,200 years"!!!!

HEY, we're talking 3,500+ years ago!!!

Quote
A sundial discovered outside a tomb in Egypt's Valley of the Kings may be the world's oldest ancient Egyptian sundials, say scientists.

Dating to the 19th dynasty, or the 13th century B.C., the sundial was found on the floor of a workman's hut, in the Valley of the Kings, the burial place of rulers from Egypt's New Kingdom period (around 1550 B.C. to 1070 B.C.).

"The significance of this piece is that it is roughly one thousand years older than what was generally accepted as time when this type of time measuring device was used," said researcher Susanne Bickel, of the University of Basel in Switzerland. Past sundial discoveries date to the Greco-Roman period, which lasted from about 332 B.C. to A.D. 395.
http://news.yahoo.com/ancient-egyptian-sundial-discovered-valley-kings-180758166.html
O0

Check out the details of the work of these archealogists:
http://aegyptologie.unibas.ch/forschung/projekte/university-of-basel-kings-valley-project/report-2012/
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 21, 2013, 02:42:14 PM
MATHEMATICS:

Quote
Egyptian Mathematics
Our first knowledge of mankindís use of mathematics beyond mere
counting comes from the Egyptians and Babylonians. Both civilizations developed mathematics that was similar in some ways but
different in others. The mathematics of Egypt, at least what is
known from the papyri, can essentially be called applied arithmetic.
It was practical information communicated via example on how to
solve specific problems....

...Construction projects on a massive scale were routinely carried
out. The logistics of construction require all sorts of mathematics.
You will see several mensuration (measurement) problems, simple
algebra problems, and the methods for computation.
Our sources of Egyptian mathematics are scarce. Indeed, much of
our knowledge of ancient Egyptian mathematics comes not from the
hieroglyphics
3
(carved sacred letters or sacred letters) inscribed on
the hundreds of temples but from two papyri containing collections of mathematical problems with their solutions.
ï The Rhind Mathematical Papyrus named for A.H. Rhind (1833-
1863) who purchased it at Luxor in 1858. Origin: 1650 BCE
but it was written very much earlier. It is 18 feet long and
13 inches wide. It is also called the Ahmes Papyrus after the
scribe that last copied it.
ï The Moscow Mathematical Papyrus purchased by V. S. Golenishchev (d. 1947). Origin: 1700 BC. It is 15 ft long and 3 inches
wide. Two sections of this chapter offer highlights from these
papyri.
http://www.math.tamu.edu/~dallen/masters/egypt_babylon/egypt.pdf
O0

Before moving on, let us return briefly to MATHEMATICS, mentioned in the above post from page 1 of this thread.

Note that even in the text in the link below devoted to African history, Herodotus is referred to as the father of history....and with NO quotations around it.

Note also that the Greeks are referred to as "innovators" for borrowing the numbers of Kemet (Egypt)!!!!!!!!  Amazing

Elsewhere, the Greeks are given credit for creating geometry, but CLEARLY the Kemetans utilized geometry in their construction.  Check out what is called The Summation Series for a most intelligent insight into nature and the application of those observations to construction.  Of course, in Eurocentric terms, that Summation Series is given the name of a Greek - AS IF he is the inventor instead of the "describer."

Quote
The Ancient Egyptian works, large or small, are admired by all, because they are proportionally harmonious and as such appeal to our inner as well as outer feelings. This harmonic design concept is popularly known as sacred geometry—where all figures could be drawn or created using a straight line (not even necessarily a ruler) and compass, i.e. without measurement (dependent on proportion only).

The principles of sacred geometry are of Ancient Egyptian origin, which constituted the basis of harmonic proportions, as evident in their temples, buildings, theology, ...etc. The Ancient Egyptian design followed these principles in well-detailed canons. Plato himself attested to the longevity of the Egyptian harmonic canon of proportion (sacred geometry), when he stated,

That the pictures and statues made ten thousand years ago, are in no one particular better or worse than what they now make.

The key to divine harmonic proportion (sacred geometry) is the relationship between progression of growth and proportion. Harmonic proportion and progression are the essence of the created universe. It is consistent with nature around us. Nature around us follows this harmonious relationship. The natural progression follows a series that is popularized in the West as the "Fibonacci Series".

Since this Series was in existence before Fibonacci (born in 1179 CE), it should not bear his name. Fibonacci himself and his Western commentators, did not even claim that it was his "creation". Let us call it as it is—a Summation Series. It is a progressive series, where you start with the first two numbers in the Ancient Egyptian system, i.e. 2 and 3. Then you add their total to the preceding number, and on and on; any figure is the sum of the two preceding ones. The series would therefore be: 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, . . .

This series is reflected throughout nature. The number of seeds in a sunflower, the petals of any flower, the arrangement of pine cones, the growth of a nautilus shell, etc...all follow the same pattern of these series.

The overwhelming evidence indicates that the Summation Series was known to the Ancient Egyptians. Many Ancient Egyptian plans of temples and tombs, throughout the history of Ancient Egypt, show along their longitudinal axis and transversely, dimensions in cubits of 1.72' (0.523 m), giving “in clear” consecutive terms of the Summation Series 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, . . .


(http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/graphics/khafra-layout.gif)
The essential points of the temple [shown herein] comply with the Summation Series, which reaches the figure of 233 cubits in its total length, as measured from the pyramid, with TEN consecutive numbers of the series.

The Summation Series conforms perfectly with, and can be regarded as an expression of, Egyptian mathematics, which has been defined by everyone as an essentially additive procedure. The summation character of the series, and its use, would be in accord with the practical aspect of Egyptian science. This additivity is obvious in their reduction of multiplication and division to the same process by breaking up higher multiples into a sum of consecutive duplications.
http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/sacred-geometry.html
(Please note that only the two lines in italics are the statements of Herodotus.)

Quote
The Golden Gate

In Ancient Egypt, doorways were built with or without a pylon on each side.

A few examples from different periods show that the simple design of Egyptian doorways conforms to a harmonic analysis. The relationships between the openings and the doorjambs were harmonically proportioned. The height of the aperture and the full height, were also harmonically designed.

Points of interesting harmonic proportions are:

- The overall outline in the vertical plane is the double-square, 1:2 ratio. [H = 2B]

- The opening width is based on a square inscribed within a semi-circle, the typical Ancient Egyptian way of proportioning a root-five rectangle.
Thus, the thickness of the doorjamb is 0.618 the width of the opening.

- The height of the aperture (h) = 3.1415 = pi
O0 3684
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 21, 2013, 04:46:32 PM
Here's the reference to the Greeks borrowing numbers from the Egyptians:
http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/Ancient-Africa/egyptTOgreek.html
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 28, 2013, 07:30:40 PM
How about this?

AFRICANS WERE IN BRITAIN BEFORE THE ENGLISH!!!!!

OMG(oodness)!!!!!!

You might be thinking, "Now, I know you are making stuff up." 
Well, NO.  Actually, the English are late-comers to the British Isles.

Let us first define/describe the English:
Quote
English ethnicity
The conventional view of English origins is that the English are primarily descended from the Anglo-Saxons, Germanic tribes that migrated to Great Britain following the end of the Roman occupation of Britain, with assimilation of later migrants such as the Vikings and Normans. This version of history is considered by some historians[who?] and geneticists as simplistic or even incorrect. Recently, historians have questioned the assumption that the English are primarily descended from Anglo-Saxons. Based on a re-estimation of the number of settlers, there is a view that it is highly unlikely that the existing British Celtic-speaking population was substantially displaced by the Anglo-Saxons, and the latter were merely a ruling elite who imposed their culture on the local populations.[24][25] However, many historians, while making allowance for British survival, still hold to the view that there was significant displacement of the indigenous population.[26][27]
In any event, the Celtic-speaking populations, particularly in their use of Brythonic languages such as Cornish, Cumbric, and Welsh, held on for several centuries in parts of England such as Cornwall, Devon, Cumbria and a part of Lancashire.[28][29] Historian Catherine Hills describes what she calls the "national origin myth" of the English:

The arrival of the Anglo-Saxons ... is still perceived as an important and interesting event because it is believed to have been a key factor in the identity of the present inhabitants of the British Isles, involving migration on such a scale as to permanently change the population of south-east Britain, and making the English a distinct and different people from the Celtic Irish, Welsh and Scots ....this is an example of a national origin myth ... and shows why there are seldom simple answers to questions about origins.[30]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people

OK, so if 1) the English people derive from peoples who arrived AFTER the end of Roman occupation and 2) Africans were part of the Roman population in Britain, then IPSO FACTO, 3) Africans lived in Britain BEFORE the English.

Pretty simple, really.  But the "Legacy of Disbelief" makes it difficult to imagine because...........it just couldn't be.  Why couldn't it be?   Because all of us were taught that Black folks were running around the jungle without culture or civilization until Europeans came and gave us the Bible and in exchange took our land and freedom or Arabs came and gave us the Quran and took our bodies in many cases.

In a recent casual conversation (at the beach), I mentioned that the earliest Black presence in Panama was from "African explorers" centuries ago.
Response, "African explorers?!?!?!?"
Yes, I reiterated, "African explorers." 
(More on this later, but...........They were followed by Africans (So-called Colonial Blacks) who came with the Spanish and later by Africans/Blacks from the Caribbean (the West Indians who helped first build the Panama Railroad and later, the Canal) and now, in small numbers, by Black Ex-Pats from the US and the Caribbean.

Our formal education does not prepare us to receive such information without incredulity.

But the facts are there if we search for them where they have been buried by those whose interests were served by hiding the truth of world history from their own children and ours with the purpose of justifying their continued economic and cultural exploitaiton of us.

Back on topic:

BOOK TITLE: Staying Power:  Africans in Britain BEFORE the English 
So, if you are doubtful OR wish to seek more information go here:
http://books.google.com.pa/books?id=J8rVeu2go8IC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=africans+in+roman+army&source=bl&ots=MsZ408WLIY&sig=yAn8Ear1GSWwXqmPzW5USWFOeGA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6StBUd7sFIWk4AOE0YDoAg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=africans%20in%20roman%20army&f=false

..and search for "“African in Roman Army”

You will find that the Romans themselves contemporaneously reported that Africans were in Britain at that time. 

Those reports have ALWAYS been known to scholars, BUT they represented an "inconvenient truth" - to coin a title. ;D
O0




Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on March 28, 2013, 10:42:39 PM
Good Stuff  :bow: :clap:
I'm trying to catch up on the material  :nod:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on March 28, 2013, 11:02:31 PM
The First Americans were Africans - Document Evidence (Historically Suppressed but DNA, Archaeology, Linguistics and Anthropology win out in modern times)  By David Imhotep PhD

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pQgz121BL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_SX285_SY380_CR,0,0,285,380_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

 Click this link 4 more on "The First Americans Were Africans" Book (http://www.amazon.com/The-First-Americans-Were-Africans/dp/1456711296/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364524879&sr=8-2&keywords=the+first+americans+were+africans)


Publication Date: March 2, 2011

Cowboys and Indians?

Not hardly. The Cowboys, actually, came on the scene very late. The First Americans, as seen on the cover of this book, will be thoroughly covered. The picture was taken by the crew of The HMS Challenger Expedition, 1872-1876 A.D. at the most Southern region of South America, at a place called Tierra del Fuego. This picture can be seen today in the Natural Museum of London. Africans not only came before Columbus and Clovis, but were in the Americans far before any other group, at least 60,000 years ago. We will go through evidence exposed by a panel of credible scholars, professors and researchers. The evidence lies in several different scientific fields.

Do not forget the Egyptians. They were also here far before the Vikings or Columbus. They left structures above and below the waves in far away places in North America. From the East to the West Coasts; from the valleys to mountain tops that still carry their names. You will read about remnants of their artifacts, writings, architecture and more.

For years this story was hidden and forbidden to be repeated. Researchers who dared to bring out new finds that were against the accepted history were intimidated, funding terminated and in some cases jobs and careers put in jeopardy. Authors such as Dr. Imhotep are now throwing caution to the wind and lifting the veil of secrecy never to be closed again. This is a true history for all to learn and enjoy and there is much more on its way ... as the veil of secrecy and concealed information is made available to the public in my future, "Lifting of the Veil Series."

###################################################################

They Came before Columbus  -  (The Original Hypothesis without extensive Peer Review and Approval/Acceptance)   By Ivan Van Sertima PhD

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41K0S6ANYEL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_SX285_SY380_CR,0,0,285,380_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

 click this link for more info on the book, "They Came Before Columbus" (http://www.amazon.com/They-Came-Before-Columbus-Presence/dp/0812968174/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y)


Book Description
Release date: Hard Copy (1976) Soft Cover (September 23, 2003)
They Came Before Columbus reveals a compelling, dramatic, and superbly detailed documentation of the presence and legacy of Africans in ancient America. Examining navigation and shipbuilding; cultural analogies between Native Americans and Africans; the transportation of plants, animals, and textiles between the continents; and the diaries, journals, and oral accounts of the explorers themselves, Ivan Van Sertima builds a pyramid of evidence to support his claim of an African presence in the New World centuries before Columbus. Combining impressive scholarship with a novelist’s gift for storytelling, Van Sertima re-creates some of the most powerful scenes of human history: the launching of the great ships of Mali in 1310 (two hundred master boats and two hundred supply boats), the sea expedition of the Mandingo king in 1311, and many others. In They Came Before Columbus, we see clearly the unmistakable face and handprint of black Africans in pre-Columbian America, and their overwhelming impact on the civilizations they encountered.

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 29, 2013, 03:45:46 PM
YES!  Iceman!!  YES!!

Muchas Gracias!!!  Asante Sana!!!

I was not aware of Imhotep's book.

I regret that there are several typos and other errors because, for me, it distracts and detracts from the message.  Hopefully, those errors (even on the title page!!) will be corrected in the next printing.

Despite that and what I consider to be some loosely vetted evidence, it appears that he has some key points to make.

Thank you for sharing!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on March 30, 2013, 08:37:01 PM
 :nod: @ Iceman
I have "They Came before Columbus""  :clap:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 01, 2013, 12:19:03 PM
Egypt is responsible for.......the "Easter egg" tradition:

http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php/topic,73644.msg600731.html#msg600731

http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/what-are-real-origins-easter/

O0 3921
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on April 06, 2013, 08:11:29 PM
YES!  Iceman!!  YES!!

Muchas Gracias!!!  Asante Sana!!!

I was not aware of Imhotep's book.

I regret that there are several typos and other errors because, for me, it distracts and detracts from the message.  Hopefully, those errors (even on the title page!!) will be corrected in the next printing.

Despite that and what I consider to be some loosely vetted evidence, it appears that he has some key points to make.

Thank you for sharing!
O0

But of course Bison66
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on April 06, 2013, 08:12:28 PM
:nod: @ Iceman
I have "They Came before Columbus""  :clap:

That's whats up, truth trumps ignorance all day long, 24/7/365!!!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on April 06, 2013, 08:28:08 PM
Egypt is responsible for.......the "Easter egg" tradition:

http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php/topic,73644.msg600731.html#msg600731

http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/what-are-real-origins-easter/

O0 3921

Wow, I know the origins of New Years (Janus) and the real new year (spring).  

I know the real deal on the 4th of July and brother Frederick Douglass' opinion on it for African Americans.  

I know the origins of Halloween and that of the Harvest Festivals.  I know the deal on Thanksgiving and the story of the Native Americans that is actually the truth.  

But I can honestly say I never knew about the origins of the eggs that are so prevalent at Easter (the Goddess Isthar, Ashtoreth or Astarte, which ever spelling you desire), even though I knew about the intentional mis-translation of Pascha into Easter versus Passover in the Holy Bible...  Wow, you are the man - Thanks!!!  
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on April 08, 2013, 07:25:11 PM
Bump
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: soflorattler on April 09, 2013, 06:30:55 AM
The First Americans were Africans - Document Evidence (Historically Suppressed but DNA, Archaeology, Linguistics and Anthropology win out in modern times)  By David Imhotep PhD

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pQgz121BL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_SX285_SY380_CR,0,0,285,380_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

 Click this link 4 more on "The First Americans Were Africans" Book (http://www.amazon.com/The-First-Americans-Were-Africans/dp/1456711296/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364524879&sr=8-2&keywords=the+first+americans+were+africans)


Publication Date: March 2, 2011

Cowboys and Indians?

Not hardly. The Cowboys, actually, came on the scene very late. The First Americans, as seen on the cover of this book, will be thoroughly covered. The picture was taken by the crew of The HMS Challenger Expedition, 1872-1876 A.D. at the most Southern region of South America, at a place called Tierra del Fuego. This picture can be seen today in the Natural Museum of London. Africans not only came before Columbus and Clovis, but were in the Americans far before any other group, at least 60,000 years ago. We will go through evidence exposed by a panel of credible scholars, professors and researchers. The evidence lies in several different scientific fields.

Do not forget the Egyptians. They were also here far before the Vikings or Columbus. They left structures above and below the waves in far away places in North America. From the East to the West Coasts; from the valleys to mountain tops that still carry their names. You will read about remnants of their artifacts, writings, architecture and more.

For years this story was hidden and forbidden to be repeated. Researchers who dared to bring out new finds that were against the accepted history were intimidated, funding terminated and in some cases jobs and careers put in jeopardy. Authors such as Dr. Imhotep are now throwing caution to the wind and lifting the veil of secrecy never to be closed again. This is a true history for all to learn and enjoy and there is much more on its way ... as the veil of secrecy and concealed information is made available to the public in my future, "Lifting of the Veil Series."

###################################################################

They Came before Columbus  -  (The Original Hypothesis without extensive Peer Review and Approval/Acceptance)   By Ivan Van Sertima PhD

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41K0S6ANYEL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_SX285_SY380_CR,0,0,285,380_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

 click this link for more info on the book, "They Came Before Columbus" (http://www.amazon.com/They-Came-Before-Columbus-Presence/dp/0812968174/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y)


Book Description
Release date: Hard Copy (1976) Soft Cover (September 23, 2003)
They Came Before Columbus reveals a compelling, dramatic, and superbly detailed documentation of the presence and legacy of Africans in ancient America. Examining navigation and shipbuilding; cultural analogies between Native Americans and Africans; the transportation of plants, animals, and textiles between the continents; and the diaries, journals, and oral accounts of the explorers themselves, Ivan Van Sertima builds a pyramid of evidence to support his claim of an African presence in the New World centuries before Columbus. Combining impressive scholarship with a novelist’s gift for storytelling, Van Sertima re-creates some of the most powerful scenes of human history: the launching of the great ships of Mali in 1310 (two hundred master boats and two hundred supply boats), the sea expedition of the Mandingo king in 1311, and many others. In They Came Before Columbus, we see clearly the unmistakable face and handprint of black Africans in pre-Columbian America, and their overwhelming impact on the civilizations they encountered.



Ice, in a lecture at Cal St Long Beach back in the mid '80s, it was said that the navigator on one of Columbus' ships was a west African who guided them to what was then called "the great land to the west".
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 09, 2013, 12:11:21 PM
Re: Cristobal Colon (his name in Spanish)
Some Europeans might have thought the world was flat, but the pre-FoxNews era intelligentsia knew otherwise.
Certainly, the Ancient Egyptians knew otherwise based on their vast astronomical knowledge.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Atlantic_Ocean%2C_Toscanelli%2C_1474.jpg/300px-Atlantic_Ocean%2C_Toscanelli%2C_1474.jpg)

Colon himself sailed to a place he did NOT intend to go, thought he was somewhere he had NOT been and came back NOT knowing where he had been.

He was a human traficker, kidnapper, child molester, pimp* and was "knighted" for (despite) it.  An evangelical couple here in Panama told me he was a "Saint."  For what, I asked them, because he helped initiate genocide and all of his other crimes?

But back to SoFlo's point.
Pedro Alonzo Niño
Quote
Born in Palos de Moguer, Spain,and of African Descent, he explored the coasts of Africa in his early years. He piloted one of Columbus' ships in the expedition of 1492, and accompanied him during his third voyage that saw the discovery of Trinidad and the mouths of the Orinoco River. After returning to Spain, Niño made preparation to explore the Indies independently, looking for gold and pearls. Empowered by the Council of Castile to seek out new countries, avoiding those already found by Columbus, he committed to give 20% of his profits for the Spanish Crown (see Quinto Real).
In the company of brothers Luis and Cristóbal de la Guerra, respectively a rich merchant and a pilot, he left San Lucas in May 1499, and, after twenty-three days, they arrived at Maracapana. Visiting the islands of Margarita, Coche, and Cubagua, they exchanged objects of little value for a large quantity of pearls before sailing up the coast to Punta Araya, where they discovered salt mines.
After just two months they were back in Bayona, Spain, loaded with wealth, but also accused of cheating the King out of his portion of the spoils. Arrested, and with his property confiscated, Niño died before his trial concluded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Alonso_Ni%C3%B1o

One depiction of El Negro, as Nino was known:
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2OXvTJW9cjrp2-f39wEi47sJMuvGDRlV8F9AK3jU1F2L98Fw)

Let's put Columbus' time in perspective.

The very year of his voyage had seen the end of the 700 year domination of Portugal and Spain by the Blackamoors, which included seafaring people from Africa.  http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/reconquest-of-spain

Think about it: 700 years.  Consider the impact on the native Europeans from being exposed to the knowledge (mathematics, architecture, philosophy, etc) of the African Moors.

During that time, there was lots of interaction between the Moors and the Iberians including marriage and non-marital sex.  One can look at the "coloring" of Spanish, Portuguese and Italian people in modern times to see the African "influence" in their gene pool.  Can you say, "swarthy?"

So, it is not at all surprising that some of Colon's crew was of African descent.

O0
*
Quote
Michele da Cuneo, Columbus's childhood friend from Savona, sailed with Columbus during the second voyage and wrote: "In my opinion, since Genoa was Genoa, there was never born a man so well equipped and expert in the art of navigation as the said lord Admiral."[55] Columbus named the small island of "Saona ... to honor Michele da Cuneo, his friend from Savona."[56] The same childhood friend reported in a letter that Columbus had provided one of the captured indigenous women to him. He wrote, "While I was in the boat, I captured a very beautiful Carib woman, whom the said Lord Admiral gave to me. When I had taken her to my cabin she was naked - as was their custom. I was filled with a desire to take my pleasure with her and attempted to satisfy my desire. She was unwilling, and so treated me with her nails that I wished I had never begun. But - to cut a long story short - I then took a piece of rope and whipped her soundly, and she let forth such incredible screams that you would not have believed your ears. Eventually we came to such terms, I assure you, that you would have thought that she had been brought up in a school for whores."[57] This letter has been interpreted by some as providing evidence that Columbus knowingly aided the rape of captured indigenous people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Gotta run; more later.
O0 4143
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 09, 2013, 04:34:47 PM
MATHEMATICS:

Quote
Egyptian Mathematics
Our first knowledge of mankindís use of mathematics beyond mere
counting comes from the Egyptians and Babylonians. Both civilizations developed mathematics that was similar in some ways but
different in others. The mathematics of Egypt, at least what is
known from the papyri, can essentially be called applied arithmetic.
It was practical information communicated via example on how to
solve specific problems....

...Construction projects on a massive scale were routinely carried
out. The logistics of construction require all sorts of mathematics.
You will see several mensuration (measurement) problems, simple
algebra problems, and the methods for computation.
Our sources of Egyptian mathematics are scarce. Indeed, much of
our knowledge of ancient Egyptian mathematics comes not from the
hieroglyphics
3
(carved sacred letters or sacred letters) inscribed on
the hundreds of temples but from two papyri containing collections of mathematical problems with their solutions.
ï The Rhind Mathematical Papyrus named for A.H. Rhind (1833-
1863) who purchased it at Luxor in 1858. Origin: 1650 BCE
but it was written very much earlier. It is 18 feet long and
13 inches wide. It is also called the Ahmes Papyrus after the
scribe that last copied it.
ï The Moscow Mathematical Papyrus purchased by V. S. Golenishchev (d. 1947). Origin: 1700 BC. It is 15 ft long and 3 inches
wide. Two sections of this chapter offer highlights from these
papyri.
http://www.math.tamu.edu/~dallen/masters/egypt_babylon/egypt.pdf
O0

With everyone's help this thread will cover the World Wide African Presence and we have quite a bit of "ground" to cover, including Asia, the Islands of the Pacific, South and Central America.

But occasionally, we will backtrack to the amazing civilization that African people built in Kemet which in so many cases has been ignored, hidden or twisted by those in later centuries who sought to dehumanize Black people in order to justify economic exploitation.

So, re: mathematics and IN PARTICULAR THE CLAIM THAT GREEKS CREATED GEOMETRY:

Quote
When trying to reconstruct the role of mathematics in ancient Egypt we are not reduced to mere speculations.  We have ancient testimony and other indirect evidence for the ancient Egyptians’ keen interest in mathematics.

Although the Classical Greeks, like many other provincial- minded people before and after them, liked to boast about the superiority of their own civilization, some of them explicitly acknowledged the Egyptians’ gold standard reputation for mathematical skills.

Herodotus, Proclus in his Commentary on Euclid[31], as well as Aristotle and Democritus all credited their neighbors in the Nile valley with the invention of geometry and with excellence in its practice[32].  Also, Plato relates that the Egyptians  taught arithmetic to their children with lessons based on enjoyment and games[33], so at least some of them must have kept that zest for the exploration of numbers as they grew older.
http://www.recoveredscience.com/const130egymathcontributions.htm

There is also this (re; disparaging comments about Kemetan math), which I have read about before:
Quote
The Egyptians multiplied mostly by repeated doubling and adding, sometimes also by using ten as an intermediate multiplier when this was more convenient.  This way, they avoided the need to learn multiplication tables[35].  Their method has often been disparaged as awkward because it is different from the way we do our longhand multiplication -- it is much closer to the way our binary computers work.

Gillings lists in his book on “Mathematics in the Time of the Pharaohs” several disparaging comments from other authors on how unwieldy they find this Egyptian method but then asks:

“If Egyptian multiplication was so clumsy and difficult, how did it come about that these same techniques were still used in Coptic times, in Greek times, and even up to the Byzantine period, a thousand or more years later? No nation, over a period of more than a millennium [plus the at least three millennia since their invention], was able to improve on the Egyptian notation and methods.”[36]
http://www.recoveredscience.com/const130egymathcontributions.htm#_edn32

[32] See the chapter: “Diversions: RMP nos. 28-29, 79” in Gay Robins & Charles Chute: “The Rhind Mathematical Papyrus, an ancient Egyptian text”, British Museum Publications, Ltd., London, 1987, pages 54 to 57.  

For skeptics, due to the "Legacy of Disbelief" or otherwise:
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/12/07/science/07firstspan/07firstspan-articleLarge.jpg)
The scribe of the Rhind Mathematical Papyrus, an Egyptian document more than 3,600 years old, introduces the roughly 85 problems by saying that he is presenting the “correct method of reckoning, for grasping the meaning of things and knowing everything that is, obscurities and all secrets.”

Quote
“Egypt was going from a centralized, structured world to partially being decentralized,” said Milo Gardner, an amateur decoder of Egyptian mathematical texts who has written extensively about them. “They had an economic system that was run by absentee landowners and paid people in units of grain, and in order to make it fair had to have exact weights and measures. They were trying to figure out a way to evenly divide the hekat so they could use it as a unit of currency.”

So the Akhmim tablets, nearly 4,000 years old, contain lists of servants’ names, along with a series of computations concerning how a hekat of grain can be divided by 3, 7, 10, 11 and 13.

The Egyptian Mathematical Leather Roll, also from about 1650 B.C., is generally considered a kind of practice test for students to learn how to convert fractions into sums of other fractions.

The Rhind papyrus contains geometry problems that compute the slopes of pyramids and the volume of various-shaped granaries. And the Moscow papyrus, from about 1850 B.C., has about 25 problems, including ways to measure ships’ parts and find the surface area of a hemisphere and the area of triangles. Especially interesting are problems that calculate how efficient a laborer was by how many logs he carried or how many sandals he could make and decorate. Or the problems that involve a pefsu, a unit measuring the strength or weakness of beer or bread based on how much grain is used to make it.

One problem calculates whether it’s right to exchange 100 loaves of 20-pefsu bread for 10 jugs of 4-pefsu malt-date beer. After a series of steps, the papyrus proclaims, according to one translation: “Behold! The beer quantity is found to be correct.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/science/07first.html
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on April 10, 2013, 01:42:41 AM

Ice, in a lecture at Cal St Long Beach back in the mid '80s, it was said that the navigator on one of Columbus' ships was a west African who guided them to what was then called "the great land to the west".

 :clap: :clap: :clap: But of course SoFloRattler, the truth is coming out of the box - like cream it's rising to the top... :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 16, 2013, 05:32:23 PM
Picking up where we left off re: the "Western" hemisphere.

In keeping with our earlier point about the difference between Black people "inside" white history (Blacks in the Roman army, for example, or Black navigators with Colon) vs. African/Black history, we will continue with the history Africans in the Americas ["Turtle Island"] BEFORE Columbus that Iceman began.

Not "just" before Columbus;  but about 3,000 YEARS BEFORE COLON / COLUMBUS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRJltKHVWug

Y'ALL,  as has been said before:  "IT IS DIFFICULT TO ARGUE WITH STONE"
We can also add:  "IT IS FUTILE TO ARGUE WITH SKELETAL REMAINS"

This video about the African Olmecs in Central America includes appearances by Van Sertima.
[Technically speaking, Mexico is considered North America.]

A Spanish-speaking archaeologist saw the evidence and wrote about it in 1871!!!

O0 4303
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 19, 2013, 12:14:32 PM
Next time you are in Mexico...

Argue with this stone!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI1ZuIjmp6I

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on May 16, 2013, 10:11:50 PM
Bump
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 17, 2013, 04:16:00 AM
Asante Sana, Ice!!!

Quote
“Whoever does not inform his children of his grandparents has destroyed his child, marred his descendants, and injured his offspring the day he dies.
Whoever does not make use of his ancestry has muddled his reason.
Whoever is unconcerned with his lineage has lost his mind.
Whoever neglects his origin, his stupidity has become critical.
Whoever is unaware of his ancestry his incompetence has become immense.
Whoever is ignorant of his roots his intellect has vanished.
Whoever does not know his place of origin, his honor has collapsed.

--  15th Century African Poet (Timbuktu)

O0 4860
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 23, 2013, 02:35:10 AM

The Great, Multi-Genius Dr. Ivan van Sertima talks here with a group that he took to Mexico to study FIRST HAND the ancient African / Black presence in the Americas.  This was many years ago. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDWmjd7CWrI

In this lecture, van Sertima makes some astounding assertions.  For example, that the Olmecs in Mexico built a city (2,600 large buildings with as many as 30 rooms and 135,000 population) larger than ANY CITY IN EUROPE in a similar era - 800BC to 100BC estimated.  Keep in mind that the Olmecs preceded the Aztecs and the Mayans by a significant amount of time.  And, of course, he touches on the African presence.

The base of the pyramid built by the Olmecs IS EXACTLY THE SAME DIMENSION (+/- 1 METER!!!) as the grand pyramid in Giza.  That measurement of length was/is used to determine the circumference of the planet Earth!

Both the Egyptians and Olmecs related their architectural designs to nature so that at the Equinox, for example, sunlight would fall on a certain spot.  We saw this at Chichen Itza near Cancun where on a particular day, the shadow of the sun on the huge pyramid looks like a snake.  Has anyone here also seen that?

Because the LEGACY OF DISBELIEF is so strong, many will find it difficult to accept what he says as factual. 

My suggestion: Do not accept his word for it in this video.  Then read his book:  They Came Before Columbus to appreciate how he uses several different scientific disciplines to "prove" his case:  botany, anthropology, linguistics, architecture, archeaology, etc., etc.
http://www.amazon.com/They-Came-Before-Columbus-Presence/dp/0812968174/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368808348&sr=1-1&keywords=van+sertima

On Amazon, you can read some of the pages, but the ones I see are all about Columbus and the intrigues of the royal courts of Europe.

Gotta go now.

More later.
O0 4964
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 23, 2013, 02:53:02 PM
ALERT RE: They Came Before Columbus

Some time ago I mentioned that van Sertima spoke about two skeletons (Remember?  Arguing with bones?) that had been found on the coast of Mexico.  From all anthropological measurements, they were African/Negroid.  I recounted the story that he told of speaking with a world-renown anthropologist who told him, paraphrasing, "If these skeletons had been found anywhere else but in the Western hemisphere with pre-Columbian dating, I would agree they were Africans."

In other words:  the LEGACY OF DISBELIEF was so strong that this scientist was unable to accept the possibility that Africans had sailed the Atlantic.

OK, I believe I was wrong (unless there are two situations like it):  The skeletons (not just a bone or two) were found in the Virgin Islands, not MexicoOn Amazon in the "See Inside" you can scroll down to p. 262-263.

[This entire section is a part of a Postscript that Dr. van Sertima wrote after the first edition of the book.  I need to check my copy to see if it includes this postscript.]

The next few pages -available in the FREE preview - contain some very interesting archaeological findings indicating a VERY EARLY (perhaps 1000 BC) African presence in Central America (including a surprising reference to Panamá, where I live, to "small Black men" reported in the oral traditions of Native American people when they arrived in the Darien.  In other words the small Black men are MORE NATIVE than the Indios!!!)

Those pages also talk about the BLACK GIANTS reported by both Native Americans and European explorers.

Those interested in similarities of theology and religion will find the pages 268-269 onward VERY INTERESTING.

ENJOY!!
O0

P.S.
http://www.amazon.com/Rameses-III-Father-Ancient-America/dp/0907015735
Ouch!!! check out the price!!!  $124 to $1441!  And that is USED!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 27, 2013, 09:46:29 PM
Excerpt:
......All of this African presence in Europe predates the infestation of deep-seated racism - as opposed to a normal amount of ethnocentrism and "nationalism." -  into European culture, which has grown to the point of being metastasized.

D'Nile is part IMO of that sickness.
O0

*An African Emperor - Septimius Severus (AD 145-211)

Quote
Septimius Severus was the first Roman emperor not born and raised in Italy. His father's family originally came from Libya (Leptis Magna) and his mother's family were Etruscans (Italian). His grandfather, a knight of the Roman empire, owned land near Rome, but Septimius grew up in North Africa with his father.

Septimius married Julia Domna, a Syrian, daughter of a high priest. The name Domna is derived from the archaic Arabic word dumayna, meaning 'black'. Septimius and Julia had two sons, Caracalla, the elder, born in AD 188, and Geta.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/blackhistory/early_times/romans.htm#top

P.S.  For anyone concerned: 
NONE of this information is designed to legitimize African/Black people by showing that our People were in Europe.  Too often, IMO, Black history is presented with examples of Blacks participating in European history (e.g., how the Black seamstress assisted the widow of Abe Lincoln or Crispus Attucks, the first person to die in the American Revolution). 

Consequently, I believe (Can you tell?) that we should "center" ourselves in our own history, as Dr. Molefi Asante would put it.  From there - rather than from the periphery of somebody ELSE's history - we can gain a full appreciation not only for who we are as a People, but the significance of our own genius, development and our tremendous contributions to world civilization.  For our children, it helps create the perspective needed to rebuild our Peoplehood.

THIS recent part of the thread follows a rather extended series of posts by several posters  :bow:   :clap:   :bow:  laying down the foundation for African/Black excellence and achievement on our own AND in our own Native land.  Teach!!

Shortly we will move on to other regions of the world to "explore" the African World-Wide Presence.

We a BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD People!
 :hugs:

In regard to an earlier post (excerpt above), check out this video by a SHARP BROTHER, Dr. Runuko Rashidi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLOf5xc5SnA&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Here he is speaking to one of the dozens groups that he has taken to various places around the world to explore the world-wide presence of African People.

He covers a lot of ground - literally.  From England to Syria to Libya to Rome and more.  That's just the first part.

The second part (starting at minute 45) is an ILLUSTRATED LECTURE.
Don't miss the illustrations of Hannibal and ancient Jews and modern day Africans/Blacks in Iraq, Kuwait and elsewhere.

Enjoy.
O0

You can find info on Runuko's next trip - October 2013 - here:
http://www.travelwithrunoko.com/europe_s_african_heritage_tour_2013
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 02, 2013, 12:19:31 AM
Cross posting this from another thread as this is the Thread of Record for the topic related to it.

Y'all,

Whatever anyone thinks is the reason(s) that white people have come to a position of dominance in most of the world today, it clearly has nothing to do with inherent qualities.

If that were the case, there would be evidence in Europe of great civilizations much prior to that in the Nile Valley.  There is NONE.

If inherent qualities were the case, there would not have been the brown and black Moors dominating Spain, Portugal and a bit of France for 700 years.  

Hold on....let's put that in some perspective.  From the 700's to 1492.  That may seem a short time compared to the multiple Dynasties of Kemet (Ancient Egypt), but it is THREE TIMES LONGER THAN THE US HAS EXISTED AS A COUNTRY.  Looked at another way, 700 years before the current year was the year 1313.

This historical documentary REVEALS THE HISTORY THAT is TAUGHT IN US SCHOOLS IGNORES when discussing European HIStory.  Perhaps in advanced courses at the college level there will be some time devoted to this amazing epoch - with accuracy.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Map_of_expansion_of_Caliphate.svg/225px-Map_of_expansion_of_Caliphate.svg.png)
English: Age of the Caliphs
   Expansion under the Prophet Mohammad, 622-632  - area in dark brown
   Expansion during the Patriarchal Caliphate, 632-661 - area in medium brown
   Expansion during the Umayyad Caliphate, 661-750 - area in tan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_expansion_of_Caliphate.svg

WHEN THE MOORS RULED EUROPE
The title SHOULD BE: WHEN THE MOORS RULED SPAIN
or...WHEN THE MOORS RULED IN EUROPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM8HnvuKbAo

In a pretty good review of that period of history, we will forgive the passing reference to "ancient times" as the source of Pythagoras' knowledge of mathematics.  We already know he studied in Egypt and was exposed to the mathematical knowledge that guided the construction of pyramids, temples and other structures in Kemet.  http://www.mathopenref.com/pythagoras.html

The "harmony" described in the design of the beautiful Alhambra was embraced (perhaps created) by the ancient and wise ones of Kemet.

This documentary also debunks the common perception that the Moors destroyed the cities of Spain (Al Andalus).  They had already collapsed, says a Spanish scholar, under the savage rule of the German tribes - the Visigoths - and the residents welcomed the Moors.

On the contrary, the Moors helped build Cordoba into a beautiful city of 100,000 inhabitants while people lived in wooden houses in London.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCTu8r0Ty-_H-bCNwupxZV4zwXLl2PnqY6t9UbiSN92P7O7BL8)

There were mass numbers of Europeans who converted to Islam and a huge mosque was built.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Mosque_of_Cordoba_Spain.jpg/300px-Mosque_of_Cordoba_Spain.jpg)

No wonder, really - given the prosperity that the Moors/Muslims brought to Al Andulas and the education that even the poor enjoyed.

Enjoy the entire documentary, but don't miss the part comparing the Moorish practice of medicine with the "Christian" (really, European) variety.  
Or the comparison of:
- the alabaster palace of the ruler of Cordoba containing mechanical birds and lions, a mechanized throne and canals of water running from room to room
with
- the wooden buildings resided in by European monarchs of the same era.

Hang tight (or skip to about 57:00) to find out how the great "Christian hero of Spain" was actually a Muslim from, probably, Morocco.  His direct descendant explains that her family "cleaned up" its history and "turned it upside down" and she explains that many Spanish families did the same in order to hide the color and the religion of their ancestors!!!!!  Can you say "swarthy?"

One might argue that the advances brought to Europe by the Moors contributed to the revival of Europe (The Renaissance) and there is additional evidence in regard to the many books taken to Florence and elsewhere and translated from Arabic to Hebrew (by Jewish scholars) and then into Latin which helped to fuel the Renaissance.  That is, of course, the books that were not destroyed by the thousands (the documentary says "millions") by the Christians/Catholics in Al Andulas.

At about minute 1:10, it goes into some detail and discusses the importance of Toledo, Spain. And at 1:24, the impact of Muslim/Moorish love of knowledge and rational thought on The European Renaissance.  Rather than a new beginning, it was a transfer.  [EDIT:  Sorry, that's 1:10:00 and 1:24:00]

Learn how Oxford, England came to be a major center of learning in Britain!

At least some of the scholars are admitting that the history was distorted.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on June 19, 2013, 08:09:22 PM
BUMP
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 19, 2013, 09:05:30 PM
Thanks, Ice.

Would like to express appreciation to all of those who have opened this thread more than 5,400 times since it started.  That is pretty amazing to me.  And great.

Comments and contributions are welcome from all.  Especially welcome are those who come with documentation for their assertions.
O0 5479
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 22, 2013, 06:56:24 AM
Let us circle back to Ancient Egypt (Kemet) for a video whose author makes his case for HOW and WHY whites attempted to change Egyptians from Black to white.  He's pretty harsh in his judgments, but he makes a good case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXjFI99_Pvw

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 29, 2013, 12:28:48 PM
Let us turn to WOMEN IN THE ANCIENT WORLD.

The beginning touches on religious beliefs.  However, soon, Dr. Van Sertima turns to the historical record.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16GjKy_Ovbs

In particular, the Ethiopian Makeda (The Queen of Sheba), which begins at about 18:50.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/BlackSheba-Text.jpg/398px-BlackSheba-Text.jpg)

And Queen Tiye
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfNfzghzchKl7jk71J1MdDdBtd_NTqEvDvKaKFtqZbSAY0ehx7)

His discussion of his involvement in the courts of Tanzania reveals a lot about the intricacies of African culture, law and customs.  Turns out that he created the first legal dictionary (I think it was) in Kiswahili. [On the language itself:  http://kamusi.org/content/swahili-kiswahili ].

A very interesting lecture.
O0 5645
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 29, 2013, 02:58:17 PM
Part 2 for Today

For some fabulous photos of Ancient and modern African queens along with some positive vibes (and beats), check this companion piece to Dr. Van Sertima's lecture:

THE AFRICAN QUEENS OF ANCIENT EGYPT
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eiZTVw0HEiI#t=604s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZTVw0HEiI
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on July 02, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
Let us circle back to Ancient Egypt (Kemet) for a video whose author makes his case for HOW and WHY whites attempted to change Egyptians from Black to white.  He's pretty harsh in his judgments, but he makes a good case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXjFI99_Pvw

O0

I remember this video and its in my favorite!
You're on point Bison66 :bow:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 03, 2013, 11:42:17 AM
Morsi is about to be kicked out....good days ahead.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on July 09, 2013, 09:53:25 PM
Bump...
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on July 09, 2013, 10:12:18 PM
Is there any way we can drag OS in here?  :shrug:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 10, 2013, 12:27:31 AM
Is there any way we can drag OS in here?  :shrug:

Please don't!!!!  He'll find some racist cretin to quote.

His "response" was to start a thread on "why have white people have come to dominate" only to abandon it when asked to explain what he thought was the reason.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on July 10, 2013, 06:18:06 AM
Is there any way we can drag OS in here?  :shrug:

Please don't!!!!  He'll find some racist cretin to quote.

His "response" was to start a thread on "why have white people have come to dominate" only to abandon it when asked to explain what he thought was the reason.
O0

You're right, this has been a positive and educational thread and I'm sure he'll destroy the tone of the thread.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on July 10, 2013, 10:50:25 AM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

"The anthropologists and scientists who support such a theory realize its inanity to such an extent that they have resorted to all sorts of conceptual subtleties, construed all kinds of specious arguments into convincing reasons, accepted all types of scholarly ravings as serious probabilities, all in order to make people believe that the ancient Egyptians were White.
 
"Caucasian presumption could not suffer the idea that, in the first flowering of progress, a race Europeans consider radically inferior could produce a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization. Fortunately, light is being shed today on all the basic issues, particularly in the field of Egyptology. Scientists from all the great nations have conducted research in the field with enthusiasm and with a sense of emulation even rivalry, to the greater glory of science. It is becoming impossible, then, to resist the evidence of facts and to remain captive of obsolete theories."-- Antenor Firmin, The Equality of the Human Races, p. 227-228 (2002)

From a review of the book by the Haitian scholar:
Quote
As Fluehr-Lobban points out in her introduction, Firmin’s work was ahead of its time not only in its assertion of racial equality, but also in terms of the ways in which it engaged with art, literature and indeed, “popular culture.” Several of Firmin’s chapters anticipate later theoretical movements of the twentieth century. His discussion of Egypt as the source of European civilization echoes Martin Bernal’s controversial arguments in Black Athena (1987). In a move that presages later postcolonial critiques, he analyses the role played by theological doctrines in “popularizing the theory of race inequality” (Firmin 405), and also explores the repeated casting of Blacks as the Devil in paintings (Ary Scheffer’s The Temptation of Christ, 1856)  and in literature (Victor Hugo’s La Légende des siécles). At several points as I was reading Firmin’s work I had to remind myself that it was written in 1885. Overall I found it a relevant, provocative and fascinating read.
http://classes.yale.edu/03-04/anth500b/projects/project_sites/04_Chattaraj/Introduction.html

This book was first published in 1885 in French.
O0

K---- wake up. I served with a number of Egyptian officers. I can tell you Egyptians do not consider themselves Black Africans or Black for that matter. This is a well documented fact.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on July 10, 2013, 06:28:59 PM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

"The anthropologists and scientists who support such a theory realize its inanity to such an extent that they have resorted to all sorts of conceptual subtleties, construed all kinds of specious arguments into convincing reasons, accepted all types of scholarly ravings as serious probabilities, all in order to make people believe that the ancient Egyptians were White.
 
"Caucasian presumption could not suffer the idea that, in the first flowering of progress, a race Europeans consider radically inferior could produce a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization. Fortunately, light is being shed today on all the basic issues, particularly in the field of Egyptology. Scientists from all the great nations have conducted research in the field with enthusiasm and with a sense of emulation even rivalry, to the greater glory of science. It is becoming impossible, then, to resist the evidence of facts and to remain captive of obsolete theories."-- Antenor Firmin, The Equality of the Human Races, p. 227-228 (2002)

From a review of the book by the Haitian scholar:
Quote
As Fluehr-Lobban points out in her introduction, Firmin’s work was ahead of its time not only in its assertion of racial equality, but also in terms of the ways in which it engaged with art, literature and indeed, “popular culture.” Several of Firmin’s chapters anticipate later theoretical movements of the twentieth century. His discussion of Egypt as the source of European civilization echoes Martin Bernal’s controversial arguments in Black Athena (1987). In a move that presages later postcolonial critiques, he analyses the role played by theological doctrines in “popularizing the theory of race inequality” (Firmin 405), and also explores the repeated casting of Blacks as the Devil in paintings (Ary Scheffer’s The Temptation of Christ, 1856)  and in literature (Victor Hugo’s La Légende des siécles). At several points as I was reading Firmin’s work I had to remind myself that it was written in 1885. Overall I found it a relevant, provocative and fascinating read.
http://classes.yale.edu/03-04/anth500b/projects/project_sites/04_Chattaraj/Introduction.html

This book was first published in 1885 in French.
O0

K---- wake up. I served with a number of Egyptian officers. I can tell you Egyptians do not consider themselves Black Africans or Black for that matter. This is a well documented fact.

The modern Egyptians are not who we are talking about here in this forum - these modern PEOPLE are and invading force, just like any other non-Africans on that Continent - you ignoramus...  

They have absolutely nothing to do with any of the illustrious monuments or history that has been recorded and presented here about EGYPT...

Go sit your ignoramus arse down in a corner and read a book on Egyptian History and leave the modern era out of the discuss K---A--- Old Spot...  

Just because you are ignorant of the truth on the marvel of Africans and their creation of the infamous Egypt, doesn't mean we will listen to your nonsense Old Fool...  
 
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 10, 2013, 06:43:05 PM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

"The anthropologists and scientists who support such a theory realize its inanity to such an extent that they have resorted to all sorts of conceptual subtleties, construed all kinds of specious arguments into convincing reasons, accepted all types of scholarly ravings as serious probabilities, all in order to make people believe that the ancient Egyptians were White.
 
"Caucasian presumption could not suffer the idea that, in the first flowering of progress, a race Europeans consider radically inferior could produce a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization. Fortunately, light is being shed today on all the basic issues, particularly in the field of Egyptology. Scientists from all the great nations have conducted research in the field with enthusiasm and with a sense of emulation even rivalry, to the greater glory of science. It is becoming impossible, then, to resist the evidence of facts and to remain captive of obsolete theories."-- Antenor Firmin, The Equality of the Human Races, p. 227-228 (2002)

From a review of the book by the Haitian scholar:
Quote
As Fluehr-Lobban points out in her introduction, Firmin’s work was ahead of its time not only in its assertion of racial equality, but also in terms of the ways in which it engaged with art, literature and indeed, “popular culture.” Several of Firmin’s chapters anticipate later theoretical movements of the twentieth century. His discussion of Egypt as the source of European civilization echoes Martin Bernal’s controversial arguments in Black Athena (1987). In a move that presages later postcolonial critiques, he analyses the role played by theological doctrines in “popularizing the theory of race inequality” (Firmin 405), and also explores the repeated casting of Blacks as the Devil in paintings (Ary Scheffer’s The Temptation of Christ, 1856)  and in literature (Victor Hugo’s La Légende des siécles). At several points as I was reading Firmin’s work I had to remind myself that it was written in 1885. Overall I found it a relevant, provocative and fascinating read.
http://classes.yale.edu/03-04/anth500b/projects/project_sites/04_Chattaraj/Introduction.html

This book was first published in 1885 in French.
O0

K---- wake up. I served with a number of Egyptian officers. I can tell you Egyptians do not consider themselves Black Africans or Black for that matter. This is a well documented fact.

Right on time.
He has missed the entire point!!!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on July 10, 2013, 07:05:29 PM
I was going to say the same thing but I felt bad for inviting him into the thread. You notice he answered just like a European.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 21, 2013, 10:23:04 PM
Yes, CU.

Then he was too embarrassed (if he even understood that he missed the entire point) and disappeared again.

As usual.
O0 6336
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on July 23, 2013, 07:28:53 PM
bump
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 31, 2013, 07:45:00 AM
Those interested in the scientific evidence that the Ancient Egyptian civilization (Kemet) was an African/Black one, will appreciate the DNA evidence regarding one of Kemet's most powerful rulers:  Ramesses III.

Quote

Discussion: Results in Table 1 indicate that the autosomal STR profiles for both Ramesses and Unknown Man E are most frequent in present day regions of Sub-Saharan Africa and also found in Near Eastern regions at lower frequencies.

Among present day world populations, Ramesses III’s autosomal STR profile is most frequent in the African Great Lakes region, where it is approximately 335.1 times as frequent as in the world as a whole (see Table 1 and Figure 2). Unknown Man E’s autosomal STR profile is most frequent in the Southern Africa region, where it is approximately 134.6 times as frequent as in the world as whole (see Table 1 and Figure 3). Both autosomal STR profiles are also found in the Levantine region that includes populations of present day Egypt, but are substantially more frequent in regions of Sub-Saharan Africa
(see Table 1).

Specifically, both of these ancient individuals inherited the alleles D21S11=35 and CSFIPO=7, which are found throughout Sub-Saharan Africa but are comparatively rare or absent in other regions of the world. These African related alleles are different from the African related alleles identified for the previously studied Amarna period mummies (D18S51=19 and D21S11=34).11 This provides independent evidence for African autosomal ancestry in two different pharaonic families of New Kingdom Egypt.

World Region             RamessesIII     Unknown Man E (possible Pentawer)
AfricanGreat Lakes  335.1                 104.0
Southern African      266.0                 134.6
Tropical W. African  241.7                   42.8
Horn of Africa           114.0                   48.2
Sahelian                      57.0                   11.3
North African              23.9                   13.5
Levantine                    14.3                     4.9
Arabian                          5.1                     1.4
South India                    4.4                     1.5
Aegean                           3.3                     0.9
Mesopotamian               2.4                     0.9
North India                    2.3                     0.7
Mestizo                          2.1                    10.1
Northwest European     1.4                      0.5
Mediterranean               1.1                      0.5
Salishan                         1.0                   12.9......

These results indicate that both Ramesses III and Unknown Man E (possibly his son Pentawer) shared an ancestral component with present day populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. This preliminary analysis based on eight STR markers does not identify the percentages of Sub-Saharan African ancestry for these ancient individuals. This preliminary analysis also does not exclude additional ancestral components (such as Near Eastern or Mediterranean related components) for these ancient pharaonic
Egyptians.
 
In addition, these DNA match results in present day world regions might in part express population changes in Africa after the time of Ramesses III. In particular, DNA matches in present day populations of Southern Africa and the African Great Lakes might to some degree reflect genetic links with ancient populations (formerly living closer to New Kingdom Egypt) that have expanded southwards in the Nilotic and Bantu migrations of the past 3,000 years

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2013-02-01.pdf  (See pages 4 - 6 for these excerpts.)

Fascinating stuff!!!!

His mummified body:
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/909140/thumbs/o-RAMSES-III-MURDER-SOLVED-570.jpg?8)

Also, Ramesses III is believed to have been murdered as part of a palace coup:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/ramses-iii-mummy-murder-great-pharaohs_n_2323397.html
O0 6534
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 12, 2013, 07:08:28 PM
Quietly and out of the headlines, some Black folks have been studying ancient Kemet and sponsoring travel groups to northeastern Africa to learn the true history of Our People in ancient times.

One example is this couple:  http://www.kemetnu.com/

INTERVIEW:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKMq88xxsbE

O0 6733
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on August 12, 2013, 10:22:56 PM
An don't forget about Anthony Browder's Washington DC tour and he also has been going to Egypt for about 2 decades:  http://www.ikg-info.com/home

He's the author of Nile Valley Contributions to Western Civilization
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 14, 2013, 09:58:58 AM
Yes, Browder is a great researcher and popularizer!

He used to give tours of DC to show the "secret" African presence, to include the Obelisk (Washington Monument on the Mall) and the Masonic Temple on 16th St.  The images and symbology were explained.

* * * *

Here and elsewhere, an argument is sometimes made to characterize African / Black people as inferior intellectually.  Most of these arguments are based on ignorance - sometimes willful.  Most often, the ignorance is the result of centuries of racist scholarship which purposefully twisted history and archeaological discoveries in order to lift up the victors of military conquest.  As most realize, the "destruction of Black civilization" was not only physical, but in the telling of history itself.

In addition to ignorance, whenever previously "unknown" incontrovertible facts are brought to light, highly dishonest arguments are often made.  One of them is to pretend that African people in ancient times only existed in the sub-Saharan area of Africa and then to claim that folks south of the Sahara have contributed little or nothing to civilization.  Neither claim is true.

It is intellectually dishonest.  It would be like arguing that Europeans didn't sail the oceans because the Swiss (or Georgians, etc.) didn't do it.

Later, of course, it was convenient to claim that Africans / Blacks were savages with no civilization in order to justify European or Arab exploitation of Blacks.  Science and theology were both then employed to justify and even glorify the exploitation of our Ancestors,

Back on topic...
There were large cities with wide boulevards in West Africa, which surprised European explorers when they FIRST saw them - in other words they existed prior to whites' arrival.  Basil Davidson's "Lost Cities of Africa" recounts some of the explorers' reports, but he also details empires and nations in Africa 1,500 years before Europeans came.  I read it 4 decades ago (it was published 50 years ago) and still remember some parts. The part that I remember so clearly was the reaction of Portuguese(?) explorers who after describing with obvious admiration and amazement a large, well ordered city exclaimed,  "And these are Black men!  These are Black men!"  You can read some of the book (Revised Edition) here:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/0316174319  

However, that excerpt REALLY does not do justice to the rest of the book.  However, a look at the bibliography gives an idea of Davidson's thoroughness.
This is the edition I have:  (http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mhipxddq-E6b22KjqHV1zQg.jpg)  
Available cheap, but not updated:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-LOST-CITIES-OF-AFRICA-by-Basil-Davidson-1959-edition-/271246296901?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3f278a0745

At the same time, one must look at even Davidson's work from a wider perspective.  This review of his book raises the issue that I am referencing and says it quite well.

Quote
Grabbed a copy of this to replace the one I remembered enjoying many years ago. Davidson was a good writer and really admirable in his advocacy of Africans, but unfortunately his advocacy was based on the dominant paradigms of "civilization," technology and political organization: Africans are just as good as Europeans because they developed city-states and mastered metallurgy.  Only at the very end of the book does he suggest that they might also have cultivated admirable and durable ethical practices in their daily lives.

The problem with judging people as civilized vs. uncivilized is that civilization means whatever you want it to mean. To Davidson it means technology and politics;
 to humanists it means the arts; at its root it simply means urbanized. If you praise people for their technology and politics, it means you're praising them for their technologists and politicians, the kinds of people who start wars, build weapons of mass destruction in secret, and tell us we need nuclear power. And sure enough, these metal-working African city-states all collapsed. Pyramids and space stations are not measures of greatness.

There have been plenty of insightful historians and anthropologists all along who have avoided the great and powerful and focused on the way societies take care of their poorest members and their natural habitats - unfortunately Davidson was not one of them.
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/451311262

One O-dan poster used railroads and another used social mobility as the primary criteria to measure civilization or progress or whatever.  However, as important as those might be, civilization, as the reviewer says "means whatever you want it to mean."  And, true to form, a person is most likely to project from the civilization that they identify with AS IF that is the ONLY standard.

O0 6873
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 16, 2013, 12:06:22 PM
THE AFRICAN ORIGINS OF WRITING & MATHEMATICS

Further to the point re: subsaharan Africa, this video includes Kemet's CREATION of writing and mathematics as well as evidence of scripts in several West African nations.

Warning: LANGUAGE ADVISORY  Not for small kids.
Some - very little - of the language is pretty strong.  Not my style, but the information contained DEFINITELY outweighs it.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs7ze9_the-african-origins-of-writing-mathematics_school

EVIDENCE OF THE EARLIEST SPIRITUAL WRITING IN THE WORLD.  IS THAT PART OF THE DEFINITION OF "CIVILIZATION?"

INCIDENTALLY...
When one speaks of Africa's Sub-Sahara, IT IS CRITICAL TO REMEMBER THAT THE SAHARA WAS NOT ALWAYS DESERT!!!!!
Consequently, the 'natural' assumption is wrong that transportation and interaction was "impossible" across that huge expanse.  

Here is the evidence of the Black people who lived there thousands of years ago and the similarity (in clothing, for example) between their culture and that of Kemet in the Nile Valley.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15h35_the-origin-of-egyptian-civilization_news  Part 1

O0 6911
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on August 16, 2013, 12:48:12 PM
Is there any way we can drag OS in here?  :shrug:

 :snicker
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on August 16, 2013, 01:22:15 PM
Keep up the good work Bison  :clap:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 17, 2013, 09:37:49 AM
Thanks, Pharoah!  We appreciate your contributions as well.

Let us continue.....

Let's take a moment to address some misconceptions and assertions made outside of any context.

I have in mind comments in another thread which challenged posters to name a Black or Brown country that had achieved what the USA has achieved.

Responses to that challenge (despite the false claim that the challenge was not answered) fell into two categories:
1) that in current times there was none (Wildman and others)
and
2) that in other times, there were such nations.  (That info was dismissed as too much info!!!  A "dissertation," I think was the word.)

That would be the end of it, but the question (challenge) was asked AS IF it proved that white people were superior and consequently no other people could have possibly accomplished what white people had.

This was and is fallacious because it takes one moment in time (the present) and draws timeless conclusions from that "short" period.  A simple example is that when the Romans (some of whom, BTW, were African/Black) arrived in the British Isles,
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Agricola.Campaigns.80.84.jpg/220px-Agricola.Campaigns.80.84.jpg)
they described the white residents as not being too bright:

Quote
Cicero, To Atticus, 4.17.6 actually reads: "(...) it has been ascertained too that there is not a scarp of silver in the island, nor any hope of booty except from slaves; but I don't fancy you will find any with literary or musical talents among them."
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2009/06/cicero-the-britons-are-too-stupid-to-make-good-slaves.html

But more than fallacious, such a perspective is another example of white so-called supremacist thinking.  If we want to accurately assess the capabilities of "peoples", we can and should take a longer view of history than is represented by the recent period in human history.  In that period Europeans, largely through aggression and genocide (SOME of which was accomplished by the spreading of European diseases), HAVE become the dominant military and economic force in the world.  

However, think about it (especially since we have recently been asked "What if...? more than once):
How dominant WOULD Europeans be today if they had stayed in Europe and not robbed, raped and ravaged around the world bringing home the mineral and other wealth they stole and then taking over and colonizing the lands they "discovered?"

We could pick another point in time and, based on the dominance of a given group, ask a similar question AS IF it proved that, for example, the Mongols were the most advanced and most powerful people and therefore superior to others.

Now....
In 1931, John Sparks put together what he called a Histomap to show how, over the millenia, various nations / civilizations were dominant.  Given the "mindset" of the times and yet to be discovered evidence of ancient civilization combined, perhaps, with some Eurocentrism, Mr. Sparks constructed his Histomap, although it may not be accurate in all respects.  

Curiously, it begins only in 2000 BC when I believe it was well known by scholars by the 1920's (despite racist deniers of the Egyptians being Black) that Egyptian and other ancient non-European nations had already been in existence for at least a millenium.  For example, it is now known (if not known then) that Pharoah Narmer (aka Menes) united Upper and Lower Egypt around 3100BC.
(http://www.theafrolounge.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Narmer.jpg)

However, nonetheless, Sparks' graphic effort to show the ebb and flow of history is still instructive.  (The original was 5 feet long!!!)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/08/12/the_1931_histomap_the_entire_history_of_the_world_distilled_into_a_single.html?wpisrc=most_viral

(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/the_vault/2013/8/12/HistomapFinal.jpg.CROP.article920-large.jpg)
When you look at this chart (close up), you could pick a spot on the timeline and assert that Egyptians, or Chinese or, as I said, the Mongols were the most advanced and then fallaciously imply that they were superior to others.

Here, you can zoom in on the chart to read the details:
http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200375~3001080?trs=2&qvq=q%3APub_List_No%3D%221810.000%22%3Blc%3ARUMSEY~8~1&mi=1

So, if one can arbitrarily pick a time period to prove one group's superiority, then the case can be made for several groups (at different times) and perhaps the one with the longest - not necessarily the most recent - would be deserving of the "prize." ;D

I'm just saying.
O0 6935
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on August 17, 2013, 10:26:09 AM
Yes, Browder is a great researcher and popularizer!

He used to currently gives tours of DC to show the "secret" African presence, to include the Obelisk (Washington Monument on the Mall) and the Masonic Temple on 16th St.  The images and symbology were are explained.

* * * *


O0 6873

Some photo's of the sites to be explored can be viewed at this website location...  Additionally, the book, Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization (http://www.amazon.com/Nile-Valley-Contributions-to-Civilization/dp/B002W9Q3LC) provides the same information that he will shared on the tour, so if you don't have time for a tour - get the book...   ;)

Washington DC tour info can be found here. (http://www.ikg-info.com/fieldtrips/egyptonthepotomac)

O0 We are currently making plans to either take the Oct 5 or Nov 2 guided tour O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 17, 2013, 10:37:07 AM
THANKS, ICE!!!

Your reminder has nudged me to contact them to see when we can take our granddaughter on the tour!!!

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on August 17, 2013, 10:58:31 AM
THANKS, ICE!!!

Your reminder has nudged me to contact them to see when we can take our granddaughter on the tour!!!

O0

O0 If health and life permits, we are planning on doing the trip to Egypt with Tony Browder in 2015 or 2016 after I complete my MBA studies...   :nod:   
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 20, 2013, 01:30:49 AM
Here's Part 2 of The Origin of Egyptian Civilization.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15h5r_the-origin-of-egyptian-civilization_news?from_related=related.page.int.meta2-only.1d2c6606e8c7d894b8a094ba67ec8a23137666838#from=playrelon-1-newrelated


For our French speakers:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8ysgn_histoire-et-falsification-jean-pau_tech?from_related=related.page.int.meta2-only.77e3e43795936c9c6931b12d0700e2c8137684435#from=playrelon-5-newrelated

NOW....
Returning briefly to our discussion of "civilization", it is remarkable to note that the earliest examples of iron smelting, which requires great ingenuity and very high temperatures, ARE IN AFRICA AND TURKEY - not in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smelting#Early_iron_smelting

Working with iron ore originated in Africa and the most precious metal - gold - was used as jewelry in Africa first.

Quote
The Khormusan industry in Egypt began between 40,000 and 30,000 BC.[2] Khormusans developed advanced tools not only from stone but also from animal bones and hematite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Egypt#Khormusan_Industry

Quote
The earliest surviving iron artifacts are made from hematite, among the Khormusans of Egypt, c. 3500 BC.[4]

Quote
Gold, the most attractive and precious of metals in every society, is also the easiest for primitive man to acquire. Gold is bright, incorruptible, malleable, and appears in pure form in the beds of streams. Once seen, acquiring it is just a matter of picking it up. Nuggets of this gleaming substance must often have been kept and treasured.

Pure gold also has the quality of softness. It can be easily shaped by hammering, but this malleability makes it useless for practical purposes. It begins as it has continued - a luxury item. The earliest surviving gold jewellery is from Egypt in about 3000 BC.
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/plaintexthistories.asp?historyid=ab16#ixzz2cU4SfamR

If Europeans were/are so much more intelligent than Africans, how is it that they lagged behind in the most essential of the "industrial" aspects of the Iron Age?  Originating something is more indicative of intelligence than cutting and....oh, excuse me, than imitating what others do.

One could say the same thing about monument building.  We have elaborate, massive, exquisitely designed temples, monuments, obelisks in Africa but in Europe, at the same epoch, we have caves and rough-hewn stones piled up upon one another to mark the Solstice. (Stonehenge - 2500 - 2000 BC).
(http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/content/properties/stonehenge/287293/K030970_2_.jpg)

vs.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_-_20080716a.jpg/300px-Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_-_20080716a.jpg)

O0  7006
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 29, 2013, 11:03:07 PM
Once again, let us circle back to the Moors in Spain, Portugal and a bit of France.

The Moors ruled for 700 years - ending in 1492 when Ferdinand and Isabella consolidated Christian power in Spain.
  If you're just picking up on this thread, you can go back and review (or Search for "Moor")

This video shows many artifacts that are exhibited in Europe these days which demonstrate that "Blackamoors"  (another term for the Moors) were a significant force in that part of Europe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHtfhfYOEU0

The write-up shared by the poster of the video shows the "battle"  among those who wish to deny Black Achievement and others.

Quote
Uploaded on Sep 9, 2010
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. A Thousand pictures should settle the argument. Some of the artifacts in this video are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. These images speak for themselves.

The desperate Euro-centrists who would suggest that black dominance in Europe is a fantasy of "Afro-centrists" would also like to tell you that the images here are a recent concoction of these same Afro-centrists (LOL). However, if they make such a claim they will thereby reveal their true ignorance and complete lack of understanding. These artifacts are considered far to valuable, precious and historical to either destroy or pervert.

You cannot successfully white-wash history without destroying all the evidence including that which you treasure.

Unlike the Egyptian images which had many of the noses and lips destroyed in order to make it a bit less obvious that MOST of them are of negros... these images are such that NO Eurocentrists could ever try to claim that these are people who are other than black and "negroid".

(Sigh) In spite of the irrefutable evidence here... I am patiently waiting for the desperate Eurocentrists to come up with their laughable explanations.

You will also note the racist and ignorant comments by "deniers."

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

Neymar may not like one part of the narration as he explains how conquerors mix with the local populace (the women) and that their childrens' coloring reflects that interaction.  The Moors in Europe were no different in that respect than the Arabs and Italians were in Northeast Africa.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 02, 2013, 12:41:18 AM
In addition to scholars fighting the battle for a correct history, there is the struggle in popular culture where images convey "truth" to our subconscious.

Check this out:  a white actor is hired to play the part of the Egyptian god, Ra.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0qgffKANfVk/TzG31Akc68I/AAAAAAAAAP8/Q_gdNvU57oI/s320/Ra+ancient+Egyptian+god.png)

http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

This is part of a centuries long effort to deny Black Achievement and to delegitimate, undermine and marginalize Black civilizations.

SIGN THE PETITION, y'all, TO PROTEST AND STOP THIS DISREPECT.
SHARE THE PETITION WITH OTHERS.

Wonder what Norwegians and Icelanders would think about Black folks portraying Lief Erickson and his men in a movie about them supposedly traveling to Turtle Island (North America) before Columbus?

UNthinkable, Right?
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 06, 2013, 01:11:51 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 06, 2013, 01:21:50 PM
# 2 for today:

Some of y'all may remember the plan to cast Anthony Quinn as the leader of the Haitian Revolution MANY years ago.

After protests, that idea was shelved.....permanently to my knowledge.

Sign the petition.
This total misrepresentation of Ra as a white man needs to be shelved.

Or, perhaps, we should start making movies with Black actors portraying Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, George Washington but NOT Benedict Arnold.  :shrug:
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on September 06, 2013, 01:48:19 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on September 06, 2013, 01:49:21 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

You could have just messaged me the link
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on September 06, 2013, 02:08:17 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on September 06, 2013, 02:19:31 PM
Clare Brown HOVE, UNITED KINGDOM 3 days ago    Liked 0
Let's see some accuracy in a film that's meant to showcase historical events. There are plenty of talented black actors out there that can carry a film; ignoring them in favour of an all white cast does seem racist, ignorant and just plain wrong.

وهنا يبدأ جوهر حجة
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on September 06, 2013, 02:34:47 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on September 06, 2013, 02:45:48 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on September 06, 2013, 03:23:27 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين



Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

فصل الشتاء من العصور القديمة لدينا
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 06, 2013, 11:20:03 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين
Rough translation:
We need the historical accuracy in prominent things like religion.

 :clap:    :clap:

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on September 07, 2013, 12:40:13 AM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين
Rough translation:
We need the historical accuracy in prominent things like religion.

 :clap:    :clap:

O0


(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/mj-laughing.gif)

This just turned gold.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on September 07, 2013, 01:21:31 AM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين



Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

فصل الشتاء من العصور القديمة لدينا



هل يمكن أن تتخيل؟ الناس في حي الجدات يحرمون من قبل أولئك الذين لم أحب الأرض. بكى لذلك. محبوبا وخسر،
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on September 07, 2013, 11:16:04 AM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين



Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

فصل الشتاء من العصور القديمة لدينا



هل يمكن أن تتخيل؟ الناس في حي الجدات يحرمون من قبل أولئك الذين لم أحب الأرض. بكى لذلك. محبوبا وخسر،


:(

قبلت الجميع. لالأمة فوق الجميع ولكن الناس

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU)
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on September 07, 2013, 11:43:20 AM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين



Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

فصل الشتاء من العصور القديمة لدينا



هل يمكن أن تتخيل؟ الناس في حي الجدات يحرمون من قبل أولئك الذين لم أحب الأرض. بكى لذلك. محبوبا وخسر،


:(

قبلت الجميع. لالأمة فوق الجميع ولكن الناس

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU)

 :nono2:

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

ومن الواضح تماما. لقبول فرضية حجة أيضا لقبول الدم الإبادة الجماعية الخاصة بك. كما الطفل من النوبيين انت عدو من البانتو.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on September 07, 2013, 11:55:51 AM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين



Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

فصل الشتاء من العصور القديمة لدينا



هل يمكن أن تتخيل؟ الناس في حي الجدات يحرمون من قبل أولئك الذين لم أحب الأرض. بكى لذلك. محبوبا وخسر،


:(

قبلت الجميع. لالأمة فوق الجميع ولكن الناس

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU)

 :nono2:

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

ومن الواضح تماما. لقبول فرضية حجة أيضا لقبول الدم الإبادة الجماعية الخاصة بك. كما الطفل من النوبيين انت عدو من البانتو.

LOL كذلك الذين ليس عدوي؟
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 07, 2013, 12:40:31 PM
Neymar and Rebakky96,

Did you two sign the petition?
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on September 07, 2013, 12:59:39 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين



Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

فصل الشتاء من العصور القديمة لدينا



هل يمكن أن تتخيل؟ الناس في حي الجدات يحرمون من قبل أولئك الذين لم أحب الأرض. بكى لذلك. محبوبا وخسر،


:(

قبلت الجميع. لالأمة فوق الجميع ولكن الناس

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU)

 :nono2:

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

ومن الواضح تماما. لقبول فرضية حجة أيضا لقبول الدم الإبادة الجماعية الخاصة بك. كما الطفل من النوبيين انت عدو من البانتو.

LOL كذلك الذين ليس عدوي؟

(http://i.imgur.com/x5p2O.gif)

أن يكون مكروها هو أن يكون محبوبا.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on September 07, 2013, 01:15:09 PM
Neymar and Rebakky96,

Did you two sign the petition?
O0

I'm on the fence.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on September 07, 2013, 01:16:26 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين



Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

فصل الشتاء من العصور القديمة لدينا



هل يمكن أن تتخيل؟ الناس في حي الجدات يحرمون من قبل أولئك الذين لم أحب الأرض. بكى لذلك. محبوبا وخسر،


:(

قبلت الجميع. لالأمة فوق الجميع ولكن الناس

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU)

 :nono2:

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

ومن الواضح تماما. لقبول فرضية حجة أيضا لقبول الدم الإبادة الجماعية الخاصة بك. كما الطفل من النوبيين انت عدو من البانتو.

LOL كذلك الذين ليس عدوي؟

(http://i.imgur.com/x5p2O.gif)

أن يكون مكروها هو أن يكون محبوبا.

يبقى شيء واحد غير واضح على الرغم من. لماذا بالضبط أنها تأخذ ذلك؟
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on September 10, 2013, 10:39:54 AM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين



Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

فصل الشتاء من العصور القديمة لدينا



هل يمكن أن تتخيل؟ الناس في حي الجدات يحرمون من قبل أولئك الذين لم أحب الأرض. بكى لذلك. محبوبا وخسر،


:(

قبلت الجميع. لالأمة فوق الجميع ولكن الناس

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU)

 :nono2:

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

ومن الواضح تماما. لقبول فرضية حجة أيضا لقبول الدم الإبادة الجماعية الخاصة بك. كما الطفل من النوبيين انت عدو من البانتو.

LOL كذلك الذين ليس عدوي؟

(http://i.imgur.com/x5p2O.gif)

أن يكون مكروها هو أن يكون محبوبا.

يبقى شيء واحد غير واضح على الرغم من. لماذا بالضبط أنها تأخذ ذلك؟

عندما يكون لديك شيء لدعوة خاصة بك، وانت تأخذ ما تستطيع.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8nd5F5aqM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8nd5F5aqM)
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52483000/jpg/_52483904_hi011204369.jpg)
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 22, 2013, 03:55:54 AM
BLACK ORIGINS OF ANCIENT GREEK CIVILIZATION

This book supplements the better known work of Bernal, "Black Athena."

While it needs a better editor and is heavy on tracing myth, for me itS real value is in the color plates of VERY early Greek civilzation demonstrating the African presence.  (However, myth IS an important element in tracing a civilization's origins and development.  Does not matter whether you embrace the myth or not.)  The author contends not only a presence but an African origin of Greek civilization.  

Certainly, it is INDISPUTABLE that many, many famous Greek scholars studied in Africa - some of them for decades.  So it is clear (or likely, at the very least!) that they were seeking knowledge that was not available in their own land.  From that it is not a far stretch to posit that the SOURCE of the knowledge and civilization was in Kemet / Africa.  The Greeks themselves told us that their gods were based on African gods.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41F6Zo0qJDL._SY344_PJlook-inside-v2,TopRight,1,0_SH20_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

If you click the book cover at Amazon to "Look Inside", read the Intro and read/scroll down thru the First Chapter, then click on "Surprise Me" you will find some of the illustrations.

The site of the publisher also is informative by offering additional physical evidence of the African presence in early civilizations in Southwest Asia and Southeast Europe.

Anu M'Bantu's series of UNMISTAKENLY BLACK books looks to be very interesting.  He is described as a anthro-photo-journalist.

Quote
He has taken aim at the history of Black people in North Africa and Western Asia revealing magnificent sculptures and paintings that few in the Black community have ever seen. He has also documented that the original Arabs of ancient times were Black.

(http://www.pome-granate.org/images/mbantu/ubpersia.jpg)        (http://www.pome-granate.org/images/mbantu/ubeurope.jpg)

http://www.pome-granate.org/author_mbantu.html

Once again, the deniers are left to argue with the artifacts left behind by the ancients themselves.  The deniers are basically saying to us, "Who you gonna believe?  Me or your lying eyes?!"

Which begs the question:  WHO DO WE BELIEVE?

"UP!, UP!, YOU MIGHTY RACE!!!  YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU WILL!!"
O0 7598
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 22, 2013, 10:59:10 PM
Often when we think about ancient Egypt, we imagine that great and long-lasting empire along the Nile River, but in fact there was Kemetan conquest of surrounding areas.

Here is one map designed to show the area under control of Egypt around the time of Rameses II.

(http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/hittite3.jpg)
It appears that Kadesh was in the area where Beth-Shan is shown. ^ ^

Another version:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Hitt_Egypt_Perseus.png/350px-Hitt_Egypt_Perseus.png)

As you will notice, Canaan, Palestine/israel, some of Lebanon and Syria and perhaps even a corner of modern day Jordan are included.

In 1274 BC, Rameses II fought a legendary battle against the Hittites at Kadesh (Qadesh) near Lake Hims IN SYRIA.  Accounts vary as to what transpired, but Rameses II survived and withdrew first to Damascus and ultimately back to Egypt. 

Quote
Logistically unable to support a long siege of the walled city of Kadesh, Ramesses prudently gathered his troops and retreated south towards Damascus and ultimately back to Egypt. Once back in Egypt, Ramesses proclaimed that he had won a great victory, but in reality, all he had managed to do was to rescue his army since he was unable to capture Kadesh.[2] In a personal sense, however, the Battle of Kadesh was a triumph for Ramesses since, after blundering into a devastating Hittite chariot ambush, the young king had courageously rallied his scattered troops to fight on the battlefield while escaping death or capture. The new lighter, faster, two-man Egyptian chariots were able to pursue and take down the slower three-man Hittite chariots from behind as they overtook them. The leading elements of Hittites' retreating chariots were thus pinned against the river and in several hieroglyphic inscriptions related to Ramesses II, said to flee across the river, abandoning their chariots, "swimming as fast as any crocodile" in their flight.[3]

Hittite records from Boghazkoy, however, tell a very different conclusion to the greater campaign, where a chastened Ramesses was forced to depart from Kadesh in defeat. Modern historians essentially conclude the battle was a draw, a great moral victory for the Egyptians, who had developed new technologies and rearmed[3] before pushing back against the years-long steady incursions by the Hittites, and the strategic win to Muwatalli II, since he lost a large portion of his chariot forces but sustained Kadesh through the brief siege.

The Hittite king, Muwatalli II, continued to campaign as far south as the Egyptian province of Upi (Apa), which he captured and placed under the control of his brother Hattusili, the future Hattusili III.[5] Egypt's sphere of influence in Asia was now restricted to Canaan.[5] Even this was threatened for a time by revolts among Egypt's vassal states in the Levant, and Ramesses was compelled to embark on a series of campaigns in Canaan in order to uphold his authority there before he could initiate further assaults against the Hittite Empire.[citation needed]

In the eighth and ninth years of his reign, Ramesses extended his military successes; this time, he proved more successful against his Hittite foes when he successfully captured the cities of Dapur and Tunip,[32] where no Egyptian soldier had been seen since the time of Thutmose III almost 120 years previously. His victory proved to be ephemeral, however.

The thin strip of territory pinched between Amurru and Kadesh did not make for a stable possession. Within a year, they had returned to the Hittite fold, which meant that Ramesses had to march against Dapur once more in his tenth year. His second success here was equally as meaningless as his first, since neither Egypt nor Hatti could decisively defeat the other in battle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kadesh

The peace agreement was etched in stone:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Istanbul_-_Museo_archeol._-_Trattato_di_Qadesh_fra_ittiti_ed_egizi_%281269_a.C.%29_-_Foto_G._Dall%27Orto_28-5-2006.jpg/180px-Istanbul_-_Museo_archeol._-_Trattato_di_Qadesh_fra_ittiti_ed_egizi_%281269_a.C.%29_-_Foto_G._Dall%27Orto_28-5-2006.jpg)
The Kadesh peace agreement—on display at the Istanbul Archaeology Museum—is believed to be the earliest example of any written international agreement of any kind.

Rameses II
(http://www.st-impact.nl/joomla/images/stories/Egypte/Ramses_II.jpg)

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 24, 2013, 03:57:59 PM
Some of these items relate directly to ancient Egypt:

100 Things you never knew about Africa
(http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/when-we-ruled.jpg)

There is so much good information here, it is hard to pick favorites, but here are some good ones:

Quote
10. The ancient Egyptians had the same type of tropically adapted skeletal proportions as modern Black Africans. A 2003 paper appeared in American Journal of Physical Anthropology by Dr Sonia Zakrzewski entitled Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body Proportions where she states that: “The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the ‘super-Negroid’ body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many ‘African’ populations.”

11. The ancient Egyptians had Afro combs. One writer tells us that the Egyptians “manufactured a very striking range of combs in ivory: the shape of these is distinctly African and is like the combs used even today by Africans and those of African descent.”
(http://www.worldwidestore.com/Artifacts/1538ab.jpg)
My comment:  Yeah, I guess those white Egyptians used these! LOL

30. The Nigerian city of Ile-Ife was paved in 1000 AD on the orders of a female ruler with decorations that originated in Ancient America. Naturally, no-one wants to explain how this took place approximately 500 years before the time of Christopher Columbus!

34. One of the great achievements of the Yoruba was their urban culture. “By the year A.D. 1300,” says a modern scholar, “the Yoruba people built numerous walled cities surrounded by farms”. The cities were Owu, Oyo, Ijebu, Ijesa, Ketu, Popo, Egba, Sabe, Dassa, Egbado, Igbomina, the sixteen Ekiti principalities, Owo and Ondo.

35. Yoruba metal art of the mediaeval period was of world class. One scholar wrote that Yoruba art “would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer.”
(http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/caaas/_files/images/yoruba-art/Yoruba%20art.jpg)

40. Malian sailors got to America in 1311 AD, 181 years before Columbus. An Egyptian scholar, Ibn Fadl Al-Umari, published on this sometime around 1342. In the tenth chapter of his book, there is an account of two large maritime voyages ordered by the predecessor of Mansa Musa, a king who inherited the Malian throne in 1312. This mariner king is not named by Al-Umari, but modern writers identify him as Mansa Abubakari II.

47. Many old West African families have private library collections that go back hundreds of years. The Mauritanian cities of Chinguetti and Oudane have a total of 3,450 hand written mediaeval books. There may be another 6,000 books still surviving in the other city of Walata. Some date back to the 8th century AD. There are 11,000 books in private collections in Niger. Finally, in Timbuktu, Mali, there are about 700,000 surviving books.

49. Concerning these old manuscripts, Michael Palin, in his TV series Sahara, said the imam of Timbuktu “has a collection of scientific texts that clearly show the planets circling the sun. They date back hundreds of years . . . Its convincing evidence that the scholars of Timbuktu knew a lot more than their counterparts in Europe. In the fifteenth century in Timbuktu the mathematicians knew about the rotation of the planets, knew about the details of the eclipse, they knew things which we had to wait for 150 almost 200 years to know in Europe when Galileo and Copernicus came up with these same calculations and were given a very hard time for it."

52. Benin art of the Middle Ages was of the highest quality. An official of the Berlin Museum für Völkerkunde once stated that: “These works from Benin are equal to the very finest examples of European casting technique. Benvenuto Cellini could not have cast them better, nor could anyone else before or after him . . . Technically, these bronzes represent the very highest possible achievement.”
(http://nsunews.nova.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/african_presence_img-232x300.jpg)

55. The recently discovered 9th century Nigerian city of Eredo was found to be surrounded by a wall that was 100 miles long and seventy feet high in places. The internal area was a staggering 400 square miles.

56. On the subject of cloth, Kongolese textiles were also distinguished. Various European writers of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries wrote of the delicate crafts of the peoples living in eastern Kongo and adjacent regions who manufactured damasks, sarcenets, satins, taffeta, cloth of tissue and velvet. Professor DeGraft-Johnson made the curious observation that: “Their brocades, both high and low, were far more valuable than the Italian.”

57. On Kongolese metallurgy of the Middle Ages, one modern scholar wrote that: “There is no doubting . . . the existence of an expert metallurgical art in the ancient Kongo . . . The Bakongo were aware of the toxicity of lead vapours. They devised preventative and curative methods, both pharmacological (massive doses of pawpaw and palm oil) and mechanical (exerting of pressure to free the digestive tract), for combating lead poisoning.”

77. On bling culture, one seventeenth century visitor to southern African empire of Monomotapa, that ruled over this vast region, wrote that: “The people dress in various ways: at court of the Kings their grandees wear cloths of rich silk, damask, satin, gold and silk cloth; these are three widths of satin, each width four covados [2.64m], each sewn to the next, sometimes with gold lace in between, trimmed on two sides, like a carpet, with a gold and silk fringe, sewn in place with a two fingers’ wide ribbon, woven with gold roses on silk.”

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Great-Zimbabwe-2.jpg/285px-Great-Zimbabwe-2.jpg)
The ruins of Great Zimbabwe - Monomotapa was the ancient name of the empire

78. Southern Africans mined gold on an epic scale. One modern writer tells us that: “The estimated amount of gold ore mined from the entire region by the ancients was staggering, exceeding 43 million tons. The ore yielded nearly 700 tons of pure gold which today would be valued at over $­­­­­­7.5 billion.”

79. Apparently the Monomotapan royal palace at Mount Fura had chandeliers hanging from the ceiling. An eighteenth century geography book provided the following data: “The inside consists of a great variety of sumptuous apartments, spacious and lofty halls, all adorned with a magnificent cotton tapestry, the manufacture of the country. The floors, cielings [sic], beams and rafters are all either gilt or plated with gold curiously wrought, as are also the chairs of state, tables, benches &c. The candle-sticks and branches are made of ivory inlaid with gold, and hang from the cieling by chains of the same metal, or of silver gilt.”

82. Evidence discovered in 1978 showed that East Africans were making steel for more than 1,500 years: “Assistant Professor of Anthropology Peter Schmidt and Professor of Engineering Donald H. Avery have found as long as 2,000 years ago Africans living on the western shores of Lake Victoria had produced carbon steel in preheated forced draft furnaces, a method that was technologically more sophisticated than any developed in Europe until the mid-nineteenth century.”

83. Ruins of a 300 BC astronomical observatory was found at Namoratunga in Kenya. Africans were mapping the movements of stars such as Triangulum, Aldebaran, Bellatrix, Central Orion, etcetera, as well as the moon, in order to create a lunar calendar of 354 days.

84. Autopsies and caesarean operations were routinely and effectively carried out by surgeons in pre-colonial Uganda. The surgeons routinely used antiseptics, anaesthetics and cautery iron. Commenting on a Ugandan caesarean operation that appeared in the Edinburgh Medical Journal in 1884, one author wrote: “The whole conduct of the operation . . . suggests a skilled long-practiced surgical team at work conducting a well-tried and familiar operation with smooth efficiency.”


Enjoy the entire list!
http://newsrescue.com/when-we-ruled-africas-reign/#axzz2epsatwFR
O0 7662
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on September 25, 2013, 10:05:13 PM
Some of these items relate directly to ancient Egypt:

Enjoy the entire list!
http://newsrescue.com/when-we-ruled-africas-reign/#axzz2epsatwFR
O0 7662


Thanks Bison66...  You always give us the best and most accurate historical information... 

Big ups to you - you are appreciated!!!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: soflorattler on September 25, 2013, 10:37:25 PM
Some of these items relate directly to ancient Egypt:

Enjoy the entire list!
http://newsrescue.com/when-we-ruled-africas-reign/#axzz2epsatwFR
O0 7662


Thanks Bison66...  You always give us the best and most accurate historical information... 

Big ups to you - you are appreciated!!!

 :nod: Very much so...
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 27, 2013, 12:45:19 AM
Thanks, y'all.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on September 28, 2013, 02:36:19 PM
Quick Question:

Has anyone signed the petition?
http://www.change.org/petitions/danish-actor-to-play-egyptian-god-ra-stop-artistic-team-behind-the-gods-of-egypt-from-holding-an-all-white-cast

If not, I encourage you to do so and to share on FB, Twitter, your email contacts, etc.

O0

Read the petition and comments from the link bekah.

marsh sommervil NEW YORK, NY 2 days ago    Liked 0
authenticity is important for historic films

الأشواك من العصور القديمة علينا الآن؟

 :lol:

لأن ذلك حكاية الله هو تاريخي

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs21/f/2007/286/8/0/Jesus_of_Nazareth_by_shimoda7.jpg)

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

نحن بحاجة الدقة التاريخية في أشياء مثل الدين البارزين



Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

فصل الشتاء من العصور القديمة لدينا



هل يمكن أن تتخيل؟ الناس في حي الجدات يحرمون من قبل أولئك الذين لم أحب الأرض. بكى لذلك. محبوبا وخسر،


:(

قبلت الجميع. لالأمة فوق الجميع ولكن الناس

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx7mc5oAsU)

 :nono2:

Jessica Cox GATLINBURG, TN 3 months ago    Liked 8
Stop whitewashing history! Please use a Black/African-descended actor to play the role of an African God.

Amelia MILLER POUGHKEEPS, NY 4 days ago    Liked 0
The Egyptian Gods are black, not were, are. Stop trying to continue to hide my history from those like me. Shameful this behavior being exhibited by non-pigmented people.

ومن الواضح تماما. لقبول فرضية حجة أيضا لقبول الدم الإبادة الجماعية الخاصة بك. كما الطفل من النوبيين انت عدو من البانتو.

LOL كذلك الذين ليس عدوي؟

(http://i.imgur.com/x5p2O.gif)

أن يكون مكروها هو أن يكون محبوبا.

يبقى شيء واحد غير واضح على الرغم من. لماذا بالضبط أنها تأخذ ذلك؟

عندما يكون لديك شيء لدعوة خاصة بك، وانت تأخذ ما تستطيع.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8nd5F5aqM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8nd5F5aqM)
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52483000/jpg/_52483904_hi011204369.jpg)

Profit off of revolution? A business that keeps on giving.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on September 28, 2013, 02:43:59 PM
 :nono2:

Get your comprehension game up sis. Your english pubic school education is embarrassing me in front of these muricans :lol:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 29, 2013, 03:03:37 PM
Whichever one of you two who said that you are a "born enemy" of Bantus is the one who should be embarrassed.

Or was the translation not accurate?
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 29, 2013, 03:43:38 PM
One of the attacks that used to be made against Africans was that they/we practiced cannibalism.

Marcus Garvey pointed out back in the 1930's that cannibalism was a universal practice and that the history of it was more prevalent in Europe and longer lasting.  Personally, I have not seen corroboration of his claim.

Here is, however, some fairly uncontroversial evidence for cannibalism in Germany and in Britain going back to "prehistoric" times.

Ancient site reveals signs of mass cannibalism
Germany

Quote
Archaeologists have found evidence of mass cannibalism at a 7,000-year-old human burial site in south-west Germany, the journal Antiquity reports.

The authors say their findings provide rare evidence of cannibalism in Europe's early Neolithic period.
Up to 500 human remains unearthed near the village of Herxheim may have been cannibalised.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46854000/jpg/_46854948_masscannibalism.jpg)
The "intentionally mutilated" remains included children and even unborn babies, the researchers say...

...Team leader Bruno Boulestin, from the University of Bordeaux in France, told BBC News that he and his colleagues had found evidence the human bones were deliberately cut and broken - an indication of cannibalism.

"We see patterns on the bones of animals indicating that they have been spit-roasted," he said. "We have seen some of these same patterns on the human bones [at this site]."
But Dr Boulestin stressed it was difficult to prove that these bones had been deliberately cooked.
Some scientists have rejected the cannibalism theory, suggesting that the removal of flesh could have been part of a burial ritual.

But Dr Boulestin said the human remains had been "intentionally mutilated" and that there was evidence many of them had been chewed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8394802.stm


Cannibal theory over early Briton

Quote
A fragment of bone from a Devon cave may hint at cannibalism by early Britons, according to archaeologists.
Researchers say the 9,000-year-old bone carries cut marks made by a stone tool which are consistent with the act of dismemberment.
Scientists believe the bone is evidence that Britons from the Mesolithic period engaged in complex burial rituals and possibly cannibalism.
Human remains from this period are extremely rare in Britain...

..."They're just a series of fine parallel cuts as though you're trying to dismember, to remove the lower arm."
"The person must have been already dead at this time. So you're looking at post-mortem dismemberment for some reason."
Dr Schulting says the marks could be evidence of a complex mortuary treatment. Or, he says, "the other possibility is that this is done for quite another reason, the consumption of the individual as part of cannibalism."...

...Dr Silvia Bello, a palaeontologist at London's Natural History Museum, told BBC News: "Cannibalism amongst [Homo] sapiens and pre-sapiens humans has always been a taboo topic. Whilst the presence of cut marks on faunal remains is usually referred to as a direct manifestation of butchery activities, cut marks on human remains are not usually considered to be un-equivocal evidence of cannibalism.
"The presence of butchery cut marks on human remains is generally interpreted as ritual practice, such as de-fleshing, scalping, dismembering, without consumption of the body. However, although difficult to prove, cannibalistic practices cannot be completely dismissed."...

Cave record of Britain's pioneers

Quote
In the 1980s, excavations uncovered accumulations of human and animal bones and artefacts that appeared to be much older even than Cheddar Man. The discoveries caused a sensation when it was realised many human remains bore a pattern of cut marks compatible with cannibalism...

..."We had these apparently cannibalised human bones and artefacts and animal remains with signs of butchery. They all looked like they should be part of a consistent population pattern," said Chris Stringer, head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum...

..."There are large numbers of cut marks on them and they are almost entirely smashed. And that smashing looks remarkably like the patterns of breakage you get on the animal bones in the cave - which we have assumed to be for bone marrow extraction," co-author Roger Jacobi told BBC News.

But Dr Jacobi said this was not the only possible interpretation: "Another might be that the people were dying away from the cave," he posited.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8151524.stm

Wonder if Africans under similar circumstances would get the benefit of that doubt.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: PharoahNupe94 on September 30, 2013, 02:19:11 PM
Add this one to the list

Kemet 101: An Introduction to Ancient Egyptian History and Culture
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 30, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
At times we ask ourselves, "What can I personally do?"

Here's an opportunity to SAVE PRICELESS DOCUMENTS, some of which have yet to be thoroughly researched for the information they may provide on the history of West Africa and beyond.

I ask that you think about helping out.  And thank you in advance.   :hugs:


Quote

In 2012, under threat from fundamentalist rebels, a team of archivists, librarians, and couriers evacuated an irreplaceable trove of manuscripts from Timbuktu at great personal risk. The manuscripts have been saved from immediate destruction, but the danger is not over. A massive archival effort is needed to protect this immense global heritage from loss.

(http://bl58.com/indiegogo-images/AbdelKader_200px.jpg)

Abdel Kader Haidara has been steward of his family's library since age 17

Though removed from immediate threat, the manuscripts are still jam packed in footlockers used for their evacuation and the current environment of this precious world heritage is significantly more humid than Timbuktu. There are already signs of damage and exposure to moisture.

The purpose of this campaign is to fund the preservation effort required to store the manuscripts in an archival, moisture-resistant manner during their exile from Timbuktu. If physical harm from the current packing situation continues and if mold and mildew spread in the corpus due to increased humidity, the damage will be devastating.

Timbuktu is a traditional center of peace, learning, and scholarship

By contributing, you are directly funding the archival materials and labor required to save these works. In recognition of your support, we can ensure that your name or a personal dedication will be associated with these works in perpetuity, and we will provide you with a token of your contribution to keep as an enduring memento.

This is a legacy that will continue to enrich our world, with the potential to advance the causes of peace and good governance in Africa and the world for generations.

About the Libraries in Exile Project

Libraries in Exile is sponsored by T160K, an international initiative forged in the evacuation of these treasures from Timbuktu and dedicated to protecting and preserving them until they can be returned to their home. It is the center of a growing global family who have pledged to this urgent effort.

(http://bl58.com/indiegogo-images/preservation_250px.jpg)

Funds contributed to this project will be used to purchase moisture traps, archival boxes, and the additional footlockers required to safely store these manuscripts, as well as to cover the significant labor effort required to unbox and re-pack the manuscripts for preservation.

(http://bl58.com/indiegogo-images/manuscript2_200px.jpg)

How your contribution makes a difference

There are over 300,000 unique manuscripts to be saved. We know this is an immense task, but remember that each $30 contribution means the rescue of another irreplaceable treasure.



The corpus of manuscripts is incredibly varied and beautiful

All supporters will receive a personalized digital certificate symbolizing your participation in this great adventure suitable for high-resolution printing and framing. You will also be listed as a supporter on the T160K web site.

A contribution of $30 pays the materials and labor costs required to preserve a single manuscript wrapped in a protective moisture trap and stored in its own archival box. These are objects of amazing beauty and represent a tangible benefit to all of humankind. All supporters at $30 and higher will have a personal dedication and a small photo affixed to the box of the manuscripts they helped save, a permanent legacy to your contribution.

In addition, any backer may add to their pledge, in increments of $30, and we will add their dedication to more manuscripts boxes as more are preserved.

Every $30 contributed is another manuscript preserved.

With contribution of $1000 we will send you a collection of high-quality archival 8x10 prints of photos in our collection. You can see several of these photos on this page and in the campaign gallery.

We are able to offer a limited number of original illuminated artworks featuring calligraphy by a Timbuktu craftsman using techniques and materials similar to those used to create the manuscripts. We will discuss your art selection with you. It may be a selection from one of the libraries or something of personal meaning to you.

To preserve an entire footlocker, including the materials and labor, is a commitment that not everybody can bear, but if you have this ability and feel the call to help, your contribution will pay for the full costs and materials to preserve the contents of one of the footlockers evacuated from Timbuktu. Each footlocker contains 300 manuscripts on average. This represents a significant legacy for future culture and scholarship. We thank you. If you are able to support us at this level, we will also send you a selection of photo prints from our collection and a personal letter of thanks.

Other Ways You Can Help

Not everyone can give monetarily as much as they would like, but you can still contribute. Please help us support this project by spreading the word about this campaign, sharing it using the Indiegogo sharing tools, and telling others the story of the libraries of Timbuktu. We can also use volunteers to help get the word out about our work. Please visit our web site at T160K.org/ if you would like to register to volunteer.
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1435?ixzz2UZxnk9sZ=undefined#ixzz2gQTSRH7O

Video here:  www.T160K.org/

(http://cdn3.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2013/06/2013-06-08_12h46_17-645x250.jpg)

Quote
300,000 ancient manuscripts were saved from rebels in Timbuktu, but now face a slow death by rot
Quote
Timbuktu was once the center of a vibrant trans-Saharan network, where traders swapped not only slaves, salt, gold, and silk, but also manuscripts—scientific, artistic, and religious masterworks written in striking calligraphy on crinkly linen-based paper. Passed down through generations of Timbuktu’s ancient families, they offer a tantalizing history of a moderate Islam, in which scholars argued for women’s rights and welcomed Christians and Jews.
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2013/06/08/how-300000-ancient-manuscripts-were-saved-from-malian-rebels-and-the-threat-they-now-face-rot/?fromcat=all

I am going to send these folks some money.  Hope YOU, my fellow posters, will join in.  At this site you can use PayPal: http://t160k.org/

I am reminded of the writings that Christian missionaries (Nuns?) found on Easter Island.  They, of course, did not understand the writing, but concluded it was the work of the devil and destroyed them all.  The world was thereby denied forever the knowledge and history which those writing may have contained.  The "rotting" of these manuscripts could do the same thing.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 03, 2013, 11:24:11 PM
bump

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 07, 2013, 06:04:59 PM
This writer - Asar Imhotep - really challenges the underlying premises upon which MOST of what we THINK we know about Ancient Egypt (Kemet or Ta-Meri) is based!

The entire lecture is well worth the time it takes to read and re-read.  Here is the Introduction.

Bantu Cosmology & the Origins of Egyptian Civilization - Notes

Quote
Introduction

The legacy that the Egyptian civilization left humanity is truly a testament to the human potential when grounded on a firm foundation of integrity, spirituality and a love for wisdom (the correct application of knowledge). Through their meticulous inquiries into the workings of nature,they have exposed the very essence of physics, mathematics, architecture, law, spirituality,medicine, philosophy, and more. Egyptian high culture was so great in its hay-day that it attracted unwarranted, less maturely developed nations who felt they could take would they didn’t earn.

It’s internal light shines so brightly that even 2500 years after its demise, Europeans have gone out of their way to invade, infiltrate, rob its artifacts, rewrite history, put their face on it,reinterpret the philosophy, and designate themselves as gate keepers to attach themselves to a history, a people, a contribution that does not belong to them. They have vehemently tried to disassociate ancient Ta-Meri (Egypt) with the rest of Africa. They even got so bold and so powerful that took Egypt out of Africa and created an imaginary location called the Middle East and placed Egypt there.

This world-view has been challenged by such warrior scholars as Drusilla Dunjee Houston, W.E.B. Dubois, J.A. Rogers, John G. Jackson, George GM James, John Henrik Clarke, Asa Hilliard, Yosef Ben Jochannan, Clyde Winters, Ronoko Rashidi, Maulana Karenga, Molefi Kente Asante, Ivan Van Sertima, Wade Nobles, Naim Akbar and countless others who have done the rigorous work of restoring the historical African consciousness in an attempt to restore the dignity of African people, and to inspire them to take their place as agents in the development of human flourishing and not just idle beings waiting on salvation from the European. But the scholars who managed to shift single-handedly the narrow paradigm of European hegemony, on the interpretation of classical African civilizations, has to be none other than the Senegalese scholar Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop and linguist from the Kongo Dr. Theophile Obenga. Their contribution to the understanding of African culture is unsurpassed, in my eyes, and we owe a great debt to their warriorship in the realm of epistemology. They are the reason why I do what I do and I appreciate them greatly.  

Egyptian culture is a mysterious culture. It is mysterious because nature is mysterious andto be one with nature, one has to have some element of mystery. One of the mysterious aspects to Ta-Merian culture was its University system that existed in all parts of the world, especially in central Africa.

What modern Egyptologists have failed to see in their ignorance of African culture is that Ta-Meri (Egypt) was the political state and Kemet was the priesthood. This presentation developed out of a larger independent study that started in 2005 when I wrote a paper titled "What’s in a name? The Meaning of Kemet" for a symposium at the University of Houston. Since that symposium I have been on a non stop mission to truly understand the inner pinnings of African culture and how we could use the very best of its platform and make it a more practical agent in the lives of Africans living in the United States and abroad.

Throughout this journey I have read countless material on what it means to be African and what does it mean to be God having a human experience. When you ask the Universe a question with sincerity, it definitely provides you with an answer. These questions and more were answered through the medium of lectures, reading materials, initiations, interviews and internal reflections. One such meeting with a local master told me that if I want to understand Egypt, I need to study the Twa and the Ba-Ntu people currently residing in Central Africa. I really didn’t understand really what he meant then(and this is before I wrote the paper in 2005) but it definitely became apparent later. Not too long after that encounter, during a private lecture of the late Dr. Asa Hilliard, he introduced to me a book by a Kongolese master teacher Dr. K. Bunseki Fu-Kiau and his work titled,  "African Cosmology of the Bantu-Kongo."

I didn’t pick it up immediately, but after the symposium in 2005, something compelled me to get the book. The only thing I regret now is not getting this book as soon as I heard about it. Immediately I began to see the parallels in the Kongo cosmology and that of Ancient Egypt.  This started a process of intense study of the Bantu people, and the Kongo region in particular, and what I’ve found through my independent research, to me, could be considered the Rosetta Stone of Egyptian philosophy. Now I understood fully what my local master was telling me a year prior to the symposium and it this work by Dr. Fu-Kiau which shapes the nature of this lecture today. One of the recurring themes throughout my studies has been articulated by several master teachers concerning the criteria for understanding the philosophy of the people.

(go to slide) Healing Wisdom of Africa pg. 163 – Dr. Malidoma Some Cultures define themselves in terms of the ways their people perceive the cosmos…

The cosmology I am concerned with in this chapter is so essential to Dagara wisdom that little makes sense without it; the cosmology is the foundational model for life itself.
African Cosmology of the Bantu Kongo pg. 129 – Dr. K. Bunseki Fu-Kiau

Understanding the world view of a people is the cornerstone for understanding their culture.African Philosophy: The Pharaonic Period – Dr. Theophile Obenga – pg. 20

By contrast, the Egyptian language does have genetic kinship affinities with other continental black African languages, ancient and modern. That is why the 1974 UNESCO International Colloquium, organized in Cairo, explicitly urged experts in comparative linguistics “ to establish all possible correlations between African languages and the ancient Egyptian language,” given the impossibility of identifying genetic links between the language of ancient Egypt, on the one hand, and the Semetic and Berber languages, on the other.

Writing about the same people, Janheinz Jahn states in Muntu:

"When we say that the traditional African view of the world is one of extraordinary harmony, thenexcept for the word ‘African’ every single word in the sentence is both right and wrong. For in the first place
the traditional world view is still alive today; secondly it is a question not of a worldview in the European sense, since things that are contemplated, experienced and lived are not separable in it; thirdly it can be called extraordinary only in the European sense, while for the African it is entirely commonplace; and fourth, the expression ‘harmony’ is entirely inadequate since it does not indicate what parts are being harmonized in what whole. And if we say‘everything’ is harmonized, that tells us less than ever."

These quotes encouraged me to look into the interior of Africa to gain a better understanding of Egyptian civilization. Through this process I have also come to the realization that ancient Egyptian ontological philosophy illuminates certain modern African cultural practices and spiritual philosophy.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24552061/Bantu-Cosmology-the-Origins-of-Egyptian-Civilization-Notes

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on October 07, 2013, 10:42:03 PM
Excellent Post Bison66... I now have a new book to purchase - Thanks
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on October 15, 2013, 11:28:21 AM
Bump bump for the game.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on October 15, 2013, 11:30:54 AM
Bump bump for the game.

:)

Why do you bump this every time I log on lol.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on October 15, 2013, 11:37:18 AM
Bump bump for the game.

:)

Why do you bump this every time I log on lol.

Its your safe thread  :lol:

Who is over there to watch the game?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on October 15, 2013, 11:41:13 AM
Marna family
Pari and his wife
Djamal and His wife and kids
Jaspel and his family
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on October 15, 2013, 11:52:16 AM
Marna family
Pari and his wife
Djamal and His wife and kids
Jaspel and his family

Give them my regards. May egypt score a goal for each and every one of them there :lol:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on October 15, 2013, 11:58:04 AM
Marna family
Pari and his wife
Djamal and His wife and kids
Jaspel and his family

Give them my regards. May egypt score a goal for each and every one of them there :lol:

Egypt are gonna lose. Ghana are real good man!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 17, 2013, 05:02:48 PM
Some interesting info here:  EGYPT ON THE POTOMAC - A VIDEO TOUR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDF5UxDhMuE

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on October 17, 2013, 08:11:08 PM
Some interesting info here:  EGYPT ON THE POTOMAC - A VIDEO TOUR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDF5UxDhMuE

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I am doing the IKG Tour on November 2, 2013...  Bruh, I couldn't wait, so I purchased tickets, got a RT flight with UNITED Airlines from Madison WI to Washington DC and reserved a room at the Residence Inn Alexandria Old Town South at Carlyle all to take in this magnificent tour as soon as possible...

I am taking my pivot head wearable imaging glasses to record everything...  I am excited Bison66, can't you tell... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 18, 2013, 05:04:00 AM
Yes, I can tell.    :lmao:

EXCELLENT!!!!

Please give them my email address and tell them I am interested in a tour for 3 or 4 people in December.  (They never answered my calls or my email while I was in the States the last time.  :shrug:)

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 30, 2013, 07:39:55 PM
.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on December 01, 2013, 08:58:35 PM
Yes, I can tell.    :lmao:

EXCELLENT!!!!

Please give them my email address and tell them I am interested in a tour for 3 or 4 people in December.  (They never answered my calls or my email while I was in the States the last time.  :shrug:)

O0

I will give them a call about this...   Sorry I am just seeing this and the tours do not begin again until the Spring of 2014... 

I will keep you informed as I would love to be there at the same time you guys are visiting...   This tour is life transforming, I will never be the same -  My eyes are wide shut, yet I can clearly see now - Wow!!!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 03, 2014, 09:48:56 AM
PLEASE, PLEASE, somebody explain to me how it came to be that the figures - including Christ - on Charlemagne's crown ARE BLACK PEOPLE!!!!

http://www.beforebc.de/all_europe/02-16-800-00-14.html

What happened?  Did hackers break into the code and change the color (and noses and hair) of some of the key persons in the history of Christendom?
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I thought the illustration should be shown, too.
Picture being worth a thousand words and all...

(http://www.beforebc.de/all_europe/02-16-800-00-14.jpg)

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 10, 2014, 08:16:22 AM
Let us return to the first theme of this thread to look at the high level of civilization existing in Kemet (Ancient Egypt) and how the knowledge, techniques were adapted by others, especially the Greeks.  To be claimed centuries later, despite the testimony of the ancient Greeks themselves, to be of Greek origin.

The writer is delving into some fairly esoteric subjects, but here he informs us of some of the hiistoriography involved.

This excerpt is on page six of the linked source and I suggest starting here and going to at least pg 10.  Damani deals with philosophy, religion and science:

Quote
Birth of Philosophy
The search for knowledge outside Greece by her most learned men suggests thelack of a wisdom tradition in Greece. Before Thales, there was no such thing as aGreek philosopher or Greek philosophy. Thales was the first to acquire the title“philosopher,” and according to Diodorus of Sicily and Clement of Alexandria hestudied many years under the tutelage of Kemetic priests, who introduced him tothe Kemetic Cosmology or “Memphite Theology.” We know Pythagorassubmitted to circumcision and we must assume Thales did also, since it is the first step to obtaining knowledge in Afrikan societies. This ritual procedure,marking the death of the child and rebirth of the adult, was requisite to attainingknowledge (the Word). After their studies, these men returned to Greece andattempted to institute the ideas they learned. Thales taught the ideas of the unityof matter and the primacy of the element of water, ideas that he did not fullyunderstand when he learned them in Kemet.
12

 Thales’ water is none other than the primeval waters of Nun. However, Nun, on one level is a metaphor for ourwomb-zygotic existence, the space and time before birth (Creation). Thismetaphor of a biological reality, Greek philosophers will later treat as an opinion.But this is not the only problem because on a deeper level, we discover that Nunis not simply water but is actually sound/waves; its Medu Neter symbol represents the wave-like movement of sound, suggesting that waves or sound isthe creative principle. This is how the Word became equated with the “beginning.”
http://www.sebadamani.com/kemet-revisited.html

It is important to keep in mind that by the time the Greek students (like Thales and others) began traveling to Kemet, the Kemetan civilization was already VERY old - thousands of years old, in fact.

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 22, 2014, 07:06:24 AM
Add this one to the list

Kemet 101: An Introduction to Ancient Egyptian History and Culture

Thank you, Pharoah!!!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51m8RdaqL8L._SY344_PJlook-inside-v2,TopRight,1,0_SH20_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

Kemet 101, by Dr. Kyles, is as its title suggests an introductory text and could be a good starting point for those interested in the subject.  Only 104 pages.

He is a Texas Southern Univ grad.  He offers great insights for beginner students and covers a wide range of subjects.

At the Amazon site, one can read some excerpts:
http://www.amazon.com/Kemet-101-Introduction-Ancient-Egyptian/dp/0615877338

The excerpts make for interesting reading.

Be sure to check out the Two Cradle Theory (which includes the assertion of a climactic basis for differences in cultures) as well as his list of suggested readings.  And click on "Surprise Me."

Thanks again, Pharoah, for mentioning this book.

Also, Iceman, did you pcik up the Bantu Cosmology book we talked about in October.

And, can you share some of your experiences/knowledge gained from the Kemetic tour of DC and/or video?

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 25, 2014, 10:34:15 PM


Imhotep was a multi-genius of ancient Kemet and Bauval and Brophy have done significant research on his major and massive contribution to civilization.  He lived about 4,600 years ago!!!!  Greco and Roman civilization were not even a twinkle in the Egyptians' eyes!!!

(http://www.comequando.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Imhotep_Museum-hd-1.jpg)
Imhotep was such a baaaaaaad Brother that his countrymen began to worship him as a god.

The Google translation below from Italian is a bit rough:
Quote
Imhotep - Imuthes or as it was called by the Greeks - was the first physician, architect and engineer of ancient history. Along with these roles, he was the inventor of the pyramids, the author of essays and high priest and astronomer and writer.  (He) was also one of the few people not of the royal line to be promoted to the rank of God.

Imhotep was born on 16 Kanafer and Khreduonkh Epiph, the third month of the harvest of Egypt. Kanafer his father, was an architect, who later became the most famous among the many manufacturers of the time. Khreduankh, the mother of Imhotep, probably came from Mendes, and was deified by his son, as was customary at that time.

Imhotep was born in Ankhtowe, outside of Memphis, Egypt. He lived in the time of King Zoser, also called Neterikhet, of the third dynasty. Imhotep was able to get to the top, becoming a vizier. A vizier would have to monitor developments in the land of Egypt. In this role, he worked closely with the Pharaoh. Zoser gave advice in religious matters and daily problems. Imhotep was also responsible for the improvement in the judiciary, in the Treasury, the Department of War, agriculture and general office executive...

...Architect:
The only remaining visible Imhotep (work) is the pyramid of Sakkara. This was the first structure to be built from cut stone. For the construction of the pyramid, it took twenty years. A considerable time for a new building. The pyramid consisting of layers of steps are called mastabas. Imhotep has added a passage to the north, from the sarcophagus chamber, which leads upward to 75 feet. The pyramid is almost 200 feet tall.

Imhotep was probably the architect of many other structures built during the third dynasty. (He was) also the author of a book of architecture that has been a landmark for thousands of years by Egyptian builders...

...Imhotep is known as the founder of medicine. He also wrote a treatise on medicine, no magical thinking in it, unusual for the time. This treatise, the Edwin Smith Papyrus, including observations, diseases and treatments.
Imhotep's status was elevated to that of divinity 2000 years after his death. Making him the god of medicine and healing.
http://www.comequando.it/imhotep/


(http://probaway.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/imhotep-djoser-pyramid.jpg)
http://art-history1.livejournal.com/8166.html

We mentioned Bauval previously and he was featured in a video several pages back in this thread.

He is known for his use of astroarcheology (or archeastronomy).  One of his books with Brophy focuses on Imhotep.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Uajb5oa9L._SY344_PJlook-inside-v2,TopRight,1,0_SH20_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

Quote
In this ground-breaking book, Egyptologist Robert Bauval and astrophysicist Thomas Brophy uncover the mystery of Imhotep, and ancient Egyptian superstar, pharaonic Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Galileo, and Newton all rolled into one. Based on their research at the Step Pyramid Complex at Saqqara, Bauval and Brophy delve into observational astronomy to 'decode' the alignments and other design features of the Step Pyramid Complex, to uncover the true origins and genius of Imhotep. Like a whodunit detective story they follow the clues that take them on an exhilarating magical mystery tour starting at Saqqara, leading them to temples in Upper Egypt and to the stones of Nabta Playa and the black African stargazers who placed them there.

Imhotep the African describes how Imhotep was the ancient link to the birth of modern civilization, restoring him to his proper place at the center of the birthing of Egyptian, and world, civilization.

Given the centrality of astronomy to the Kemetans, it is important to note that Imhotep was an astronomer as well.

Be sure to read pages 1 thru 4 (See Inside) or so for info on Imhotep:
http://www.amazon.com/Imhotep-African-Architect-Robert-Bauval/dp/1938875001/ref=pd_sim_b_2

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 28, 2014, 12:27:39 PM
For those still in D'Nile and would like to see MORE ACTUAL EVIDENCE of Blacks who created art and monuments in their own images around the world....

This Brother has taken his camera and gone 'round the world to document the Black presence wherever we have been.

Unmistakably Black:
Sculpture and Paintings From The World's First Civilizations


(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrpxNyGtxUKRSZ0Zkczlr1Orv4XyBweh-s8Nh3zUwZug1akxVV)

These 140 photographs are not limited to Kemet.  M'Bantu has traveled the world documenting the African/Black presence:  Asia, Syria, Europe, Persia, North America.

If you click "Look Inside" you can see a few of his photographs.
http://www.amazon.com/Unmistakably-Black-Sculpture-Paintings-Civilizations/dp/1490319743/ref=pd_sim_b_3

Once again, some folks want to argue with stone, art and even bones and DNA to maintain the FICTION that Kemet - ancient Egypt - was a white-developed civilization. 

Or, even influenced heavily by outsiders.  The problem with that argument is that Kemet and its precursors were begun 6,000 or more years ago.  Some say it was even further back than that.  So, where is the EVIDENCE of great civilizations in other areas capable of traveling FROM their homes and bringing with them their own techniques for monumental architecture and sharing their mathematical, astronomical, scientific, medical skills with the Black Kemetans?  Speculation is OK, BUT WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

But we DO have evidence that Black Africans created this great civilization.

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 01, 2014, 02:32:16 AM
HBCU footnote to the controversy about an all white cast portraying ancient Egyptian gods.

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=40001

Result of the petition: Black folks get a token god.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 01, 2014, 04:00:35 PM
Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop (1922-1986)

(http://www.gambia.dk/images/cad1.jpg)

5 PhDs in Physics, African history, Egyptology, linguistics and anthropology; armed himself to set the historical record straight; world-renowned Egyptologist; tireless militant of African cultural revival and integration…

“Race … is a geographic concept”- Cheikh Anta Diop

“L’homme blanc est sorti de l’homme noir après adaptation a un climat froid…. La race est donc un concept geographique”

http://afrooptimism.wordpress.com/2010/02/07/meet-cheikh-anta-diop-one-of-the-greatest-african-scholars-of-our-times/

Quote
“In practice it is possible to determine directly the skin colour and hence the ethnic affiliations of the ancient Egyptians by microscopic analysis in the laboratory; I doubt if the sagacity of the researchers who have studied the question has overlooked the possibility.
–Cheikh Anta Diop

Cheikh Anta Diop, a modern champion of African identity, was born in Diourbel, Senegal on December 29, 1923. At the age of twenty-three, he journeyed to Paris, France to continue advanced studies in physics. Within a very short time, however, he was drawn deeper and deeper into studies relating to the African origins of humanity and civilization.

Becoming more and more active in the African student movements then demanding the independence of French colonial possessions, he became convinced that only by reexamining and restoring Africa’s distorted, maligned and obscured place in world history could the physical and psychological shackles of colonialism be lifted from our Motherland and from African people dispersed globally.

His initial doctoral dissertation submitted at the University of Paris, Sorbonne in 1951, based on the premise that Egypt of the pharaohs was an African civilization–was rejected. Regardless, this dissertation was published by Presence Africaine under the title Nations Negres et Culture in 1955 and won him international acclaim.

Two additional attempts to have his doctorate granted were turned back until 1960 when he entered his defense session with an array of sociologists, anthropologists and historians and successfully carried his argument. After nearly a decade of titanic and herculean effort, Diop had finally won his Docteur es Lettres!

In that same year, 1960, were published two of his other works–the Cultural Unity of Black Africa and and Precolonial Black Africa.

During his student days, Cheikh Anta Diop was an avid political activist. From 1950 to 1953 he was the Secretary-General of the Rassemblement Democratique Africain (RDA) and helped establish the first Pan-African Student Congress in Paris in 1951.

(http://www.gambia.dk/images/cad_demo.jpg)

He also participated in the First World Congress of Black Writers and Artists held in Paris in 1956 and the second such Congress held in Rome in 1959. Upon returning to Senegal in 1960, Dr. Diop continued his research and established a radiocarbon laboratory in Dakar.

(http://www.gambia.dk/images/cadfm.jpg)
With his children

In 1966, the First World Black Festival of Arts and Culture held in Dakar, Senegal honored Dr. Diop and Dr. W.E.B. DuBois as the scholars who exerted the greatest influence on African thought in twentieth century. In 1974, a milestone occurred in the English-speaking world when the African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality was finally published. It was also in 1974 that Diop and Theophile Obenga collectively and soundly reaffirmed the African origin of pharaonic Egyptian civilization at a UNESCO sponsored symposium in Cairo, Egypt. In 1981, Diop’s last major work, Civilization or Barbarism: An Authentic Anthropology was published.

Dr. Diop was the Director of Radiocarbon Laboratory at the Fundamental Institute of Black Africa (IFAN) at the University of Dakar. He sat on numerous international scientific committees and achieved recognition as one of the leading historians, Egyptologists, linguists and anthropologists in the world. He traveled widely, lectured incessantly and was cited and quoted voluminously. He was regarded by many as the modern `pharoah’ of African studies. Cheikh Anta Diop died quietly in sleep in Dakar, Senegal on February 7, 1986.
http://afrooptimism.wordpress.com/2010/02/07/meet-cheikh-anta-diop-one-of-the-greatest-african-scholars-of-our-times/

More info:  http://www.gambia.dk/antadiop.html
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 02, 2014, 12:54:25 PM
Sorry for the cross-post from the other history thread, but the video includes an essential perspective on Ancient Africa:

This is a tremendous documentary directed by the late St. Clair Bourne, a sharp, sharp Brother!!!

It documents the life, work and observations of Master Teacher Dr. John Henrik Clarke.

I encourage everyone to take some time to watch the entire film.  He covers his own life, modern African-American history and ancient African history.

He also speaks about his good friend, Cheikh Anta Diop.

Most importantly, he places world and African history in perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njdQzyQnHeg

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 07, 2014, 04:13:20 PM
These articles focus on discoveries that appear to be in contradiction to the history told in the Bible, but for the purpose of this thread, I share it to demonstrate AGAIN the reach of the ancient Kemetans into Southwest Asia (Eurocentrically referred to as the Middle East).

Oldest Camel Bones Undergo Carbon Dating, ‘Direct Proof’ Bible Was Written Centuries After Events Described

Quote
...radiocarbon dating on camel bones unearthed in multiple excavations from the Aravah Valley, which runs along the Israeli-Jordanian border from the Dead Sea to the Red Sea and was an ancient center of copper production. The results dated the bones to the last third of the 10th century BC or later – hundreds of years after the Hebrew patriarchs lived. The bones most likely belonged to wild camels which may have lived during the Neolithic period (about 9500 BC) or even earlier.

(http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2014/02/05/camel.jpg)

Researchers noted “all the sites active in the 9th century in the Arava Valley had camel bones, but none of the sites that were active earlier contained them.”

The Aravah Valley, which was known for the copper production, may have influenced the domestication of animals. Researchers point to how copper production changed where more sophisticated technology and centralized labor were used – a sign that the Egyptians had conquered the region and brought domesticated animals along with them.

The arrival of domesticated animals encouraged trade between Israel and farway regions previously unreachable. Since camels can travel great distances than donkeys and mules, they influenced the creation trading routes like Incense Road.

http://www.ibtimes.com/oldest-camel-bones-undergo-carbon-dating-direct-proof-bible-was-written-centuries-after-events

And...

Quote
The researchers scoured ancient copper production sites in the Aravah Valley, where camel bones were only present in sites active in the last third of the 10 century and the 9th century BCE. Sapir-Hen and Ben-Yosef write in their report:

"[The camel bones] demonstrate a sudden appearance of camels at the site, following a major change in the organization of production in the entire region."

This suggests that camels were introduced to the region abruptly, perhaps by Egyptians along Mediterranean trade routes.
http://www.ibtimes.com/oldest-camel-bones-undergo-carbon-dating-direct-proof-bible-was-written-centuries-after-events

Of course, by 900BC, the Kemetan civilization was THOUSANDS of years old.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 11, 2014, 10:38:45 PM
The metu neter (heiroglyphics) from six thousands ago:

(http://www.discoveringegypt.com/pics/syllabic.jpg)

Quote
The script was developed about four thousand years before Christ and there was also a decimal system of numeration up to a million.

Unlike other cultures the early picture forms were never discarded or simplified probably because they are so very lovely to look at.
 :)
Hieroglyphs were called, by the Egyptians, "the words of God" and were used mainly by the priests. These painstakingly drawn symbols were great for decorating the walls of temples but for conducting day to day business there was another script, known as hieratic This was a handwriting in which the picture signs were abbreviated to the point of abstraction.

(http://www.discoveringegypt.com/pics/hiero.jpg)

http://www.discoveringegypt.com/Egyptian-Hieroglyphic-Alphabet.html

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 07, 2014, 10:57:10 AM
This video comes as close to "a shoot-out at the OK corral" among scholars as you would ever want to see!!!

You tell me if you have EVER witnessed a Black scholar show more disdain for a white scholar than Dr. John Henrik Clarke shows to his debate opponents.

They are debating the book, "Not Out of Africa" which asserts that Afrocentrism is teaching myths.  Clarke appears with Martin Bernal and they debate the co-authors, Lefkowitz and Rogers, both of Wellesey College.

(http://aalbc.com/authors/john_henrik_clarke.jpg)     (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8fg-cqV_BM0/TTRmTNwkApI/AAAAAAAAARU/KVYsMca9Mqo/s400/BernalBlog.jpg)
Clarke                                    Bernal

Don't miss Clarke's metaphor about what the Oracle in Kemet told Alexander "The Great."

Even the Moderator raises questions about the integrity of Clarke's adversaries.

It's long and I am only about half way through, but it has been quite a ride!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD9PIzele3I

Enjoy the FIREWORKS, but don't miss the considerable knowledge and facts contained in the give and take between the scholars.

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 09, 2014, 12:27:32 PM
These are quick summaries of African Queens.  Unfortunately, there are no citations to scholarly works.

Quote
Amina QUEEN Of ZARIA (1588-1589)

This queen of Zazzua, a province of Nigeria now known as Zaria, was born around 1533 during the reign of Sarkin (king) Zazzau Nohir. She was probably his granddaughter. Zazzua was one of a number of Hausa city-states which dominated the trans-Saharan trade after the collapse of the Songhai empire to the west. Its wealth was due to trade of mainly leather goods, cloth, kola, salt, horses and imported metals. At the age of sixteen, Amina became the heir apparent (Magajiya) to her mother, Bakwa of Turunku, the ruling queen of Zazzua. With the title came the responsibility for a ward in the city and daily councils with other officials. Although her mother's reign was known for peace and prosperity, Amina also chose to learn military skills from the warriors. Queen Bakwa died around 1566 and the reign of Zazzua passed to her younger brother Karama. At this time Amina emerged as the leading warrior of Zazzua cavalry. Her military achievements brought her great wealth and power.

When Karama died after a ten-year rule, Amina became queen of Zazzua. She set off on her first military expedition three months after coming to power and continued fighting until her death. In her thirty-four year reign, she expanded the domain of Zazzua to its largest size ever. Her main focus, however, was not on annexation of neighboring lands, but on forcing local rulers to accept vassal status and permit Hausa traders safe passage. She is credited with popularizing the earthen city wall fortifications, which became characteristic of Hausa city-states since then. She ordered building of a defensive wall around each military camp that she established. Later, towns grew within these protective walls, many of which are still in existence. They're known as "ganuwar Amina", or Amina's walls. She is mostly remembered as "Amina, Yar Bakwa ta san rana," meaning "Amina, daughter of Nikatau, a woman as capable as a man. Contributed by Danuta Bois

Candace EMPRESS OF ETHIOPIA (332 B.C.)

Alexander reached Kemet (Ancient Egypt) in 332 B.C., on his world conquering rampage. But one of the greatest generals of the ancient world was also the Empress of Ethiopia. This formidable black Queen Candace, was world famous as a military tactician and field commander. Legend has it that Alexander could not entertain even the possibilty of having his world fame and unbroken chain of victories marred by risking a defeat, at last, by a woman. He halted his armies at the borders of Ethiopia and did not invade to meet the waiting black armies with their Queen in personal command Dahia-Al Kahina ....

Dahia al-Kahina became leader of the African resistance. She fought against the Arab incursion in North Africa where under her leadership Africans fought back fiercely and drove the Arab army northward into Tripolitania. Her opposition to the Arab incursion was purely nationalistic, since she favored neither Christians nor Moslems. She is generally held to have been a Jewess but we believe that she could just as well have followed the old Carthaginian religion. This differs from Judaism but also shares some affinities with it.

There are, of course, Black Jews in many parts of Africa such as the Falasha of Ethiopia and the Lemba of South Africa. Arab records describe her as having "dark skin, a mass of hair and huge eyes" - the comment referring to her hair may refer to an afro or perhaps dreadlocks. Dr John Clarke describes her as a nationalist who favored no particular religion. This may explain her effectiveness in bringing together a united front against the invaders. She counterattacked the invaders and drove them into Tripolitania. This was so effective that some Arabs doubted whether Africa could be taken.

As one African army was beaten another replaced them. The Arabs seized Carthage in 698 AD. Dahia defeated them and instituted a scorched earth policy to prevent the Arabs from being able to find crops to feed on in the region. That desolation can be seen even today in southern Tunisia. Eventually, however, the Arabs returned. Dahia was finally defeated in battle in 705 AD.

After her death the Arabs began to change their strategy in advancing their faith and their power in Africa. The resistance to the southward spread of Islam was so great in some areas that some of the wives of African kings committed suicide to avoid falling into the hands of the Berbers and Arabs who showed no mercy to the people who would not be converted to Islam. She prevented Islam's southward spread into the Western Sudan but North Africa was overrun. Today Black people are a minority in North Africa. Furthermore, Africans in Mauretania and Sudan continue to face the threat of enslavement
http://www.geni.com/projects/African-Queens/6617

Here is an INCREDIBLY LONG LIST OF AFRICAN QUEENS:
http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/womeninpower/Africa.htm

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 19, 2014, 02:36:52 AM
(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Moors-in-Spain-600x680.jpg)

Time to revisit the BlackaMoors occupation of Spain:

http://atlantablackstar.com/2013/10/07/when-black-men-ruled-the-world-moors/

Quote
When the topic of the Moorish influence in Europe is being discussed, one of the first questions that arises is, what race were they?

As early as the Middle Ages, “Moors were commonly viewed as being mostly black or very swarthy, and hence the word is often used for negro,” according to the Oxford English Dictionary.
Author and historian Chancellor Williams said “the original Moors, like the original Egyptians, were black Africans.”

The 16th century English playwright William Shakespeare used the word Moor as a synonym for African. His contemporary Christopher Marlowe also used African and Moor interchangeably.
Arab writers further buttress the black identity of the Moors.  The powerful Moorish Emperor Yusuf ben-Tachfin is described by an Arab chronicler as “a brown man with wooly hair.”

Black soldiers, specifically identified as Moors, were actively recruited by Rome, and served in Britain, France, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Romania.  St. Maurice, patron saint of medieval Europe, was only one of many black soldiers and officers under the employ of the Roman Empire.
Although generations of Spanish rulers have tried to expunge this era from the historical record, recent archeology and scholarship now shed fresh light on the Moors who flourished in Al-Andalus for more than 700 years – from 711 AD until 1492.  The Moorish advances in mathematics, astronomy, art, and agriculture helped propel Europe out of the Dark Ages and into the Renaissance.

This article goes on to recount the important contributions of the Moors to Europe and the European Renaissance, in particular, out of the "Dark" Ages.

First is Universal Education.
Peasants in Spain had never had it so good as when the Black Moors took over from the Euro rulers.  No wonder there were massive conversions to Islam.
Quote
The intellectual achievements of the Moors in Spain had a lasting effect; education was universal in Moorish Spain, while in Christian Europe, 99 percent of the population was illiterate, and even kings could neither read nor write. At a time when Europe had only two universities, the Moors had seventeen, located in Almeria, Cordova, Granada, Juen, Malaga, Seville, and Toledo.

In the 10th and 11th centuries, public libraries in Europe were non-existent, while Moorish Spain could boast of more than 70, including one in Cordova that housed hundreds of thousands of manuscripts. Universities in Paris and Oxford were established after visits by scholars to Moorish Spain.

It was this system of education, taken to Europe by the Moors, that seeded the European Renaissance and brought the continent out of the 1,000 years of intellectual and physical gloom of the Middle Ages.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 24, 2014, 03:06:16 AM
MAKEDA'S GOLD MINES DISCOVERED?

Makeda is better known as the Queen of Sheba, which she was - and more.

Ancient Goldmine Discovered in Ethiopia, Are We Close to Solving Biblical Queen of Sheba’s Treasure Mystery?

Quote
An ancient goldmine discovered on a hill on the Gheralta plateau in northern Ethiopia is said to be the treasure trove of Queen of Sheba, the biblical legend who traveled from Ethiopia to Israel to meet the king and showered upon him tons of gold about 3,000 years ago.

Called by different names such as Balqis in Islamic tradition and Makeda in Ethiopian culture, the queen is mentioned everywhere in biblical history as the “Queen of Sheba.” Legend has it that she was charmed by Israel’s King Solomon’s wisdom and gifted him four and a half tons of gold that she had brought with her, according to Hebrew Bible.

[img]http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2012/02/15/233070.jpg[/img
This necklace was found decades ago.

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on May 24, 2014, 09:15:52 AM
(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Moors-in-Spain-600x680.jpg)

Time to revisit the BlackaMoors occupation of Spain:

http://atlantablackstar.com/2013/10/07/when-black-men-ruled-the-world-moors/

Quote
When the topic of the Moorish influence in Europe is being discussed, one of the first questions that arises is, what race were they?

As early as the Middle Ages, “Moors were commonly viewed as being mostly black or very swarthy, and hence the word is often used for negro,” according to the Oxford English Dictionary.
Author and historian Chancellor Williams said “the original Moors, like the original Egyptians, were black Africans.”

The 16th century English playwright William Shakespeare used the word Moor as a synonym for African. His contemporary Christopher Marlowe also used African and Moor interchangeably.
Arab writers further buttress the black identity of the Moors.  The powerful Moorish Emperor Yusuf ben-Tachfin is described by an Arab chronicler as “a brown man with wooly hair.”

Black soldiers, specifically identified as Moors, were actively recruited by Rome, and served in Britain, France, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Romania.  St. Maurice, patron saint of medieval Europe, was only one of many black soldiers and officers under the employ of the Roman Empire.
Although generations of Spanish rulers have tried to expunge this era from the historical record, recent archeology and scholarship now shed fresh light on the Moors who flourished in Al-Andalus for more than 700 years – from 711 AD until 1492.  The Moorish advances in mathematics, astronomy, art, and agriculture helped propel Europe out of the Dark Ages and into the Renaissance.

This article goes on to recount the important contributions of the Moors to Europe and the European Renaissance, in particular, out of the "Dark" Ages.

First is Universal Education.
Peasants in Spain had never had it so good as when the Black Moors took over from the Euro rulers.  No wonder there were massive conversions to Islam.
Quote
The intellectual achievements of the Moors in Spain had a lasting effect; education was universal in Moorish Spain, while in Christian Europe, 99 percent of the population was illiterate, and even kings could neither read nor write. At a time when Europe had only two universities, the Moors had seventeen, located in Almeria, Cordova, Granada, Juen, Malaga, Seville, and Toledo.

In the 10th and 11th centuries, public libraries in Europe were non-existent, while Moorish Spain could boast of more than 70, including one in Cordova that housed hundreds of thousands of manuscripts. Universities in Paris and Oxford were established after visits by scholars to Moorish Spain.

It was this system of education, taken to Europe by the Moors, that seeded the European Renaissance and brought the continent out of the 1,000 years of intellectual and physical gloom of the Middle Ages.
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Until the Europeans rebelled and pushed the Moors and the Hebrews out of Spain, they flourished as a Nation...
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 24, 2014, 04:44:28 PM
This is tangential in the sense that this focuses on Africans IN someone else's history as contrasted with historical events and persons who are CENTERED in the African experience.

Note the use of the term, "Black European."  Well-meaning, I am sure, but it is EUROCENTRIC TO THE CORE!!!  Imagine with me, how a white person depicted as a long time resident of China in Chinese art being called by a white person, "a white Asian."  THAT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, IS IT?  In fact, for most white people this is a concept that would never come to mind.  I believe that is because they KNOW deep down that each and every white person has an impermeable and inseparable cultural and psychological connection to Europe, which itself is rich in culture and tradition.  However, in their limited and somewhat stereotypical view of Africa and the African, that is not the case for Black folks.

But still, the art show and the video demonstrate the interaction, in this case mostly peaceful though enslavement is an inescapable component, between Africa and Europe.

African scholars, diplomats, students and religious figures were depicted in the art of Europe.

(http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/290-width/images/print-edition/20130223_BKP004_0.jpg)

Article with VIDEO:
http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21572175-new-show-asks-why-16th-century-european-artists-were-fascinated-africans-hue-were

Quote
Some 65 paintings and sculptures, maps and manuscripts, cameos, ceramics, armour and enamels are arranged chronologically in two spacious rooms. Most of the art was created during “the long 16th century” (1480-1610). The west African slave trade was gaining momentum. Vasco da Gama, the Portuguese sailor who explored the coast of Africa and rounded the Cape of Good Hope, was only one of many intrepid adventurers who set sail to find new markets for trade—and to satisfy European curiosity about exotic lands.

The show is divided according to such themes as “Perceptions of Africa”, “Slaves” and “Diplomats and Rulers”. One engraving, titled “Allegory of Africa”, depicts a muscular woman riding on a crocodile the size of a pony. Muslims expelled from Spain moved to north Africa. European powers and the Ottoman sultans who controlled the African coast skirmished in the Mediterranean and relations between them were often tense; “Moors”, anyone with skin ranging from tawny to blue-black, were captured and taken into European slavery. A visor from a suit of armour made for the Habsburg court was designed to look like a ferocious Moor.

But Africans also chose to visit Europe, travelling on religious or diplomatic missions. A contingent of Ethiopian pilgrims based themselves in Rome and a touching Flemish engraving depicts “St Philip Baptising the Ethiopian Counsellor”. Another engraving is a portrait of “Don Antonio Manuele de Funta, Ambassador of the King of the Congo to the Pope”. Attempts to gain influence in distant lands worked both ways.

Slaves are portrayed in drawings, paintings and bronzes. An iron head of a woeful-looking man rises out of the shackle around his neck. The portrait of a stern, well-dressed woman holding a clock, attributed to Annibale Carracci, is arresting because of her evident strong character.

Most African slaves in Europe were not indentured for life. A freed court slave might become a musician or manage to put by a fair amount of money. The man in “Portrait of a Wealthy Black Man” (pictured) wears a jewel in his turban, a glowing pearl earring and a heavy gold chain on top of his fur collar. An African servant gave birth to a son whose father later became pope. The mixed-race boy, Alessandro, grew up to be the first Medici Duke of Florence. He is the subject here of a fine small portrait by Bronzino.

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 27, 2014, 01:32:40 PM
I remember vividly being told by an Army buddy (I was USAF but we were stationed together in Alaska in Air Defense.  He commanded the Nike(?) battery.) that he didn't think that Africans HAD ANY LANGUAGES.  He thought - via Tarzan movies, I guess - that our ancestors just grunted and gestured!!

He was an officer with a college degree!!!  The level of ignorance was/is truly astounding in the general public.  (This is the same guy, who had a isht fit when I "suggested" that Jesus of Nazareth may have been "non-white.")

The high degree of culture attained in ancient times by African peoples, NOT ONLY in Kemet (Egypt), continues to be uncovered.

Here's a small indication:

Sibudu, Ancient South African Settlement, Shows Ancestors Used Insect Repellent Plants

Quote
Tens of thousands of years before scientists had realized, our ancestors in what is now South Africa were making their homes safer and more comfortable with grasses and leaves we still use today, researchers said in an article published Friday in the journal Science.

Lyn Wadley of Johannesburg's University of the Witwatersrand, who led an international team of researchers, said mats believed used for bedding and work surfaces fit other findings that show modern man evolved in Africa.

The hunter gatherers she has been studying "were the ancestors of all of us," Wadley said in an interview. "They were modern humans."

Her fossilized evidence was found at an ancient cliff shelter known as Sibudu, near the western South African city of Durban, where Wadley has been working since 1998.

Some of the plants used had properties that repelled disease-carrying flies and mosquitoes, Wadley said. She said their use showed the Sibudu people were working to prevent disease, and that she expects to find evidence they also consumed the plants as medicines.

"Early use of herbal medicines may have awarded selective advantages to humans, and the use of such plants implies a new dimension to the behavior of early humans at this time," she and her colleagues wrote in the Science article...

...Like people today, she said, they "did not always choose the simplest solutions."

Wadley said that while shell beads and other findings that indicate how early humans thought about themselves and their environment may be more glamorous, her bedding and evidence about how plants were processed to create it are a window on a community's day-to-day life.

The earliest mats are about 77,000 years old, around the time other research shows early Africans were using shell beads, engraving, and innovative stone technology. The mats are some 50,000 years older than other examples of plant bedding found in Spain, Israel and elsewhere in South Africa.

50,000 years is a long head start and pretty much clinches the question of who did it first and where.

Meanwhile, 77,000 years is a loooooong time ago.
Talk about, "Back in the Day!!"   :lol:

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on June 09, 2014, 06:57:21 PM
Boom!!!


Thanks for continuous knowledge and truth bombs you keep "settin off" in this forum Bison66...

It's definitely appreciated!!!   
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 14, 2014, 02:33:53 AM
Iceman,

You are more than welcome!!

De nada!

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Perhaps someone can help me out with this one....

Does this depiction imply that the Kemetans (Ancient Egyptians) were Black?

It's hard to tell...

(http://www.blackconsciousness.com/images/71JQmdXWfdL._AA1088_.jpg)

LOL

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Sierra on June 14, 2014, 08:13:40 AM
Excellent documents..
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 14, 2014, 04:05:20 PM
Sierra,

Any particular ones strike a chord with you?

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Sierra on June 14, 2014, 06:01:21 PM
^^^ Unmistakably Black..Photos of Black figures in the opinion of some of growing up was just a dark figure to cast bad. But we are coming to understand that thee pictures/photos were actual depiction of people during a certain history.

^^^ The other is the debate of the novel "Not out of Africa" . Right of the gate Dr. Clark let it be known the he "debate with my equal and teach others". Damn..
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 15, 2014, 01:56:06 AM
^^^ Unmistakably Black..Photos of Black figures in the opinion of some of growing up was just a dark figure to cast bad. But we are coming to understand that thee pictures/photos were actual depiction of people during a certain history.

^^^ The other is the debate of the novel "Not out of Africa" . Right of the gate Dr. Clark let it be known the he "debate with my equal and teach others". Damn..


YES!!  THANKS, Sierra!!

I like those, two, too!!!

I had the unforgettable and priceless privilege to see and hear Dr. Clarke lecture IN PERSON when I was in grad school in upstate NY.  1971 or thereabouts - before his vision failed.

Amazing man!!!   I may have told some of this story before, but...

Dr. Clarke would VERBALLY FOOTNOTE his comments as he went along by citing title, edition (if applicable), author AND SOMETIMES PAGE NUMBER!!!!!  ALL FROM MEMORY!!

He had an encyclopedic memory.

Dr. Clarke was a Master Griot and Story Teller. 

The day that I rushed from my class across campus to reach the Africana Studies & Research Center in time to catch the end of his lecture (as Visiting Professor), there was standing room only inside and I had to stand with a small group in the corridor peeking in.

Dr. Clarke was describing the Royal Court of the Asante King two centuries previous in Ghana.  By the time he finished detailing the fabrics the people wore, the procession & rituals, the gold art and the Royal Stool's importance and much more, I felt as though not only had HE been there, but as if I HAD BEEN THERE as well!!

(http://www.vam.ac.uk/__data/assets/image/0007/223819/2007bl9793_ashanti_disc_290x290.jpg)
Pectoral disc, Asante (Ashanti), Ghana, before 1874 , cast gold. Museum no, 369-1874. The distinctive multi-petalled shape of this disc represents the bud of the fofoo plant before it opens to reveal yellow florets.
 
Asantehene = King
Quote
The discs - or akrafokonmu - were worn by court officials responsible for the ritual purification of the Asantehene's soul. The plural name for such officials is akrafo (literally 'soul people'), konmu refers to something worn around the neck but the term is usually translated as  'messengers' badges' or, more accurately, 'soul-washers' or 'soul-bearers' badges'. Pectoral discs were produced in cast and repoussé (hammered) gold, as well as gold leaf over wood. They are probably the most numerous of all regalia and represent a substantial portion of an Asantehene's wealth.

The distinctive multi-petalled shape of this disc represents the bud of the fofoo plant before it opens to reveal yellow florets.

Gold regalia [was] often featured in the reports of admiring European visitors to the Asante court in the early 19th century. In 1817 the British envoy Thomas Bowdich spent three months in Kumasi where he received a state reception. He left a vivid description of the richly ornate court of the Asantehene Osei Bonsu, noting how
. . . the royal stool, entirely cased in gold, was displayed under a splendid umbrella, with drums, sankos [harp-lutes], horns and various musical instruments, cased in gold, about the thickness of cartridge paper; large circles of gold hung by scarlet cloth from the swords of state, the sheaths as well as the handles of which were also cased; hatchets of the same were intermixed with them; the breasts of the Ocrahs [soul-washers], and various attendants, were adorned with large stars, stools, crescents, and gossamer wings of solid gold.'

That ^ ^ ^ from a man who WAS there lacked the soulfulness of Dr. Clarke's intimate description.

Quote
Natural gold resources in the dense forests of southern Ghana brought wealth and influence to the Asante (Ashanti) people. Asante wealth was increased by transporting gold to North Africa via trade routes across the Sahara. In the 15th and 16th centuries this gold attracted other traders, from the great Songhay empire (in today's Republic of Mali), from the Hausa cities of northern Nigeria and from Europe. European interest in the region, initially in gold and then in enslaved Africans, brought about great changes, not least the creation of the British Gold Coast Colony in 1874.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/a/asante-gold/

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Sierra on June 15, 2014, 08:54:09 AM
Yes from listening to the debate "Not out of Africa" Dr. Clark really experienced his knowledge on the subject and it was obvious some others had not even visited Africa. But Bison today even on this site I am amazed at how some can expound on EVERY Damn subject submitted
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 15, 2014, 12:25:38 PM
Sierra,

I love your phrasing, "Dr. Clark really experienced his knowledge".

In so few words, you have conveyed so much.  Those who listened to or read him therefore also experienced, albeit vicariously, his knowledge.  

Personally, I found that the second hand, once or twice removed knowledge was awe-inspiring.  I was inspired to read and learn more.

At the same time, candidly, I was almost overpowered.  I realized that there was so, so much more to learn that it would take a lifetime of dedicated and focused effort to learn so much.  However, I knew my job and family responsibilities and my activist involvement would limit my time for study.

Sierra, a question and a differing perspective.

- I've shared my reaction to your comment:  "Dr. Clark really experienced his knowledge"

but...What did YOU mean and what does it imply?

- Secondly, my comment re: ",,I am amazed at how some can expound on EVERY Damn subject submitted."

I know EXACTLY what you mean.  Seen it often on O-dan.

I draw to your attention that, to my recollection, y04 has not commented in THIS thread and that Oldsport commented once.  OS' came only AFTER someone pointed out that he had not commented.  In that comment he, AS USUAL, missed the entire point of the thread.   One other person engaged in a "family" conversation which was better suited for a PM with another person, who began talking about soccer and had the nerve to complain in another thread that people were off-topic!!

So, I am AMAZED about other aspects!!  LOL  We're both amazed!!

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 18, 2014, 12:29:46 PM
Siera,

I am still curious...

Sierra, a question....

Quote
- I've shared my reaction to your comment:  "Dr. Clark really experienced his knowledge"

but...What did YOU mean and what does it imply?

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Sierra on June 18, 2014, 01:47:11 PM
One has to have gone to see, feel, smell all that others  (those who live there) have been subjected to. I know some books have scratch@ smell pages but I am sure this is not what Dr. Clark experienced. While listening to Dr. Clark speak one can almost  feel the presence of being there with him. I could never nor would I attempt to enter into a debate on the matter..I would just sat my a-- down and listen.
Personally I have very low tolerances for individuals who always inject themselves into matters of which they have little or no personal knowledge.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on June 18, 2014, 01:58:30 PM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

"The anthropologists and scientists who support such a theory realize its inanity to such an extent that they have resorted to all sorts of conceptual subtleties, construed all kinds of specious arguments into convincing reasons, accepted all types of scholarly ravings as serious probabilities, all in order to make people believe that the ancient Egyptians were White.
 
"Caucasian presumption could not suffer the idea that, in the first flowering of progress, a race Europeans consider radically inferior could produce a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization. Fortunately, light is being shed today on all the basic issues, particularly in the field of Egyptology. Scientists from all the great nations have conducted research in the field with enthusiasm and with a sense of emulation even rivalry, to the greater glory of science. It is becoming impossible, then, to resist the evidence of facts and to remain captive of obsolete theories."-- Antenor Firmin, The Equality of the Human Races, p. 227-228 (2002)

From a review of the book by the Haitian scholar:
Quote
As Fluehr-Lobban points out in her introduction, Firmin’s work was ahead of its time not only in its assertion of racial equality, but also in terms of the ways in which it engaged with art, literature and indeed, “popular culture.” Several of Firmin’s chapters anticipate later theoretical movements of the twentieth century. His discussion of Egypt as the source of European civilization echoes Martin Bernal’s controversial arguments in Black Athena (1987). In a move that presages later postcolonial critiques, he analyses the role played by theological doctrines in “popularizing the theory of race inequality” (Firmin 405), and also explores the repeated casting of Blacks as the Devil in paintings (Ary Scheffer’s The Temptation of Christ, 1856)  and in literature (Victor Hugo’s La Légende des siécles). At several points as I was reading Firmin’s work I had to remind myself that it was written in 1885. Overall I found it a relevant, provocative and fascinating read.
http://classes.yale.edu/03-04/anth500b/projects/project_sites/04_Chattaraj/Introduction.html

This book was first published in 1885 in French.
O0

I really laugh at these type discussions. Nothing here explains the decline of this civilization and the continued advancement of Western civilization.  The operative question is why didn't Egypt and so-called other African nation (so-called) civilizations advance parallel to Western civilization since Egypt and other African nations had foundations of modern civilization?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on June 18, 2014, 02:09:51 PM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

"The anthropologists and scientists who support such a theory realize its inanity to such an extent that they have resorted to all sorts of conceptual subtleties, construed all kinds of specious arguments into convincing reasons, accepted all types of scholarly ravings as serious probabilities, all in order to make people believe that the ancient Egyptians were White.
 
"Caucasian presumption could not suffer the idea that, in the first flowering of progress, a race Europeans consider radically inferior could produce a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization. Fortunately, light is being shed today on all the basic issues, particularly in the field of Egyptology. Scientists from all the great nations have conducted research in the field with enthusiasm and with a sense of emulation even rivalry, to the greater glory of science. It is becoming impossible, then, to resist the evidence of facts and to remain captive of obsolete theories."-- Antenor Firmin, The Equality of the Human Races, p. 227-228 (2002)

From a review of the book by the Haitian scholar:
Quote
As Fluehr-Lobban points out in her introduction, Firmin’s work was ahead of its time not only in its assertion of racial equality, but also in terms of the ways in which it engaged with art, literature and indeed, “popular culture.” Several of Firmin’s chapters anticipate later theoretical movements of the twentieth century. His discussion of Egypt as the source of European civilization echoes Martin Bernal’s controversial arguments in Black Athena (1987). In a move that presages later postcolonial critiques, he analyses the role played by theological doctrines in “popularizing the theory of race inequality” (Firmin 405), and also explores the repeated casting of Blacks as the Devil in paintings (Ary Scheffer’s The Temptation of Christ, 1856)  and in literature (Victor Hugo’s La Légende des siécles). At several points as I was reading Firmin’s work I had to remind myself that it was written in 1885. Overall I found it a relevant, provocative and fascinating read.
http://classes.yale.edu/03-04/anth500b/projects/project_sites/04_Chattaraj/Introduction.html

This book was first published in 1885 in French.
O0

I really laugh at these type discussions. Nothing here explains the decline of this civilization and the continued advancement of Western civilization.  The operative question is why didn't Egypt and so-called other African nation (so-called) civilizations advance parallel to Western civilization since Egypt and other African nations had foundations of modern civilization?

Ethiopia did. It wasnt until very recently(I'm thinking 60's) that Europe pushed past Ethiopia.

We had everything you could find in the Western world.

Vast Architectural structures.
Expansive writing system.
A renaissance of thought and art

We got decimated by communism though and a failed monarchy which lost legitimacy and used cavemen tactics to try to hold on to it.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on June 18, 2014, 02:14:48 PM
(https://www.domusweb.it/content/dam/domusweb/en/news/2010/06/05/demography-and-architecture-in-ethiopia-and-elsewhere/P10100171.JPG)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Ark_of_the_Covenant_church_in_Axum_Ethiopia.jpg)

(http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb354/Graeme_Lide/34397315.jpg)

(http://aminus3.s3.amazonaws.com/image/g0020/u00019387/i00919538/a667d6adc962e322721eb0376d2da32f_large.jpg)
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on June 18, 2014, 02:16:32 PM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

"The anthropologists and scientists who support such a theory realize its inanity to such an extent that they have resorted to all sorts of conceptual subtleties, construed all kinds of specious arguments into convincing reasons, accepted all types of scholarly ravings as serious probabilities, all in order to make people believe that the ancient Egyptians were White.
 
"Caucasian presumption could not suffer the idea that, in the first flowering of progress, a race Europeans consider radically inferior could produce a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization. Fortunately, light is being shed today on all the basic issues, particularly in the field of Egyptology. Scientists from all the great nations have conducted research in the field with enthusiasm and with a sense of emulation even rivalry, to the greater glory of science. It is becoming impossible, then, to resist the evidence of facts and to remain captive of obsolete theories."-- Antenor Firmin, The Equality of the Human Races, p. 227-228 (2002)

From a review of the book by the Haitian scholar:
Quote
As Fluehr-Lobban points out in her introduction, Firmin’s work was ahead of its time not only in its assertion of racial equality, but also in terms of the ways in which it engaged with art, literature and indeed, “popular culture.” Several of Firmin’s chapters anticipate later theoretical movements of the twentieth century. His discussion of Egypt as the source of European civilization echoes Martin Bernal’s controversial arguments in Black Athena (1987). In a move that presages later postcolonial critiques, he analyses the role played by theological doctrines in “popularizing the theory of race inequality” (Firmin 405), and also explores the repeated casting of Blacks as the Devil in paintings (Ary Scheffer’s The Temptation of Christ, 1856)  and in literature (Victor Hugo’s La Légende des siécles). At several points as I was reading Firmin’s work I had to remind myself that it was written in 1885. Overall I found it a relevant, provocative and fascinating read.
http://classes.yale.edu/03-04/anth500b/projects/project_sites/04_Chattaraj/Introduction.html

This book was first published in 1885 in French.
O0

I really laugh at these type discussions. Nothing here explains the decline of this civilization and the continued advancement of Western civilization.  The operative question is why didn't Egypt and so-called other African nation (so-called) civilizations advance parallel to Western civilization since Egypt and other African nations had foundations of modern civilization?

Ethiopia did. It wasnt until very recently(I'm thinking 60's) that Europe pushed past Ethiopia.

We had everything you could find in the Western world.

Vast Architectural structures.
Expansive writing system.
A renaissance of thought and art

We got decimated by communism though and a failed monarchy which lost legitimacy and used cavemen tactics to try to hold on to it.

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on June 18, 2014, 02:23:29 PM
What created empires? Writing of course.

Writing allowed laws to easily be passed through the lands, and for translators to have common working frame.

There isnt a single language in Olde Ethiopia which does not have a common writing script(be it Ge'ez based,Early latin, or even Arabic script)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D4TGk_ECtwA/UqouaHVHPHI/AAAAAAAAC3U/ljInMXV0wIk/s1600/DSC03292.JPG)

(http://www1.uni-hamburg.de/ethiostudies/ETHIOSPARE/2012/06/Fig048.jpg)

(http://www1.uni-hamburg.de/ethiostudies/ETHIOSPARE/2012/06/Fig024.jpg)

Surely this isnt the work of people less than oldsport?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on June 18, 2014, 02:26:57 PM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).

Quote
"If we could prove, on the basis of recent advances in our knowledge of history, that the Egyptian people were not a White race, as so many have constantly maintained through rigid adherence to systems of thought and retrospective pride ever since Egyptology the overwhelming importance of this ancient nation, what further argument could be mustered to salvage the doctrine of the inequality of the races? The answer is, none.

"The anthropologists and scientists who support such a theory realize its inanity to such an extent that they have resorted to all sorts of conceptual subtleties, construed all kinds of specious arguments into convincing reasons, accepted all types of scholarly ravings as serious probabilities, all in order to make people believe that the ancient Egyptians were White.
 
"Caucasian presumption could not suffer the idea that, in the first flowering of progress, a race Europeans consider radically inferior could produce a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization. Fortunately, light is being shed today on all the basic issues, particularly in the field of Egyptology. Scientists from all the great nations have conducted research in the field with enthusiasm and with a sense of emulation even rivalry, to the greater glory of science. It is becoming impossible, then, to resist the evidence of facts and to remain captive of obsolete theories."-- Antenor Firmin, The Equality of the Human Races, p. 227-228 (2002)

From a review of the book by the Haitian scholar:
Quote
As Fluehr-Lobban points out in her introduction, Firmin’s work was ahead of its time not only in its assertion of racial equality, but also in terms of the ways in which it engaged with art, literature and indeed, “popular culture.” Several of Firmin’s chapters anticipate later theoretical movements of the twentieth century. His discussion of Egypt as the source of European civilization echoes Martin Bernal’s controversial arguments in Black Athena (1987). In a move that presages later postcolonial critiques, he analyses the role played by theological doctrines in “popularizing the theory of race inequality” (Firmin 405), and also explores the repeated casting of Blacks as the Devil in paintings (Ary Scheffer’s The Temptation of Christ, 1856)  and in literature (Victor Hugo’s La Légende des siécles). At several points as I was reading Firmin’s work I had to remind myself that it was written in 1885. Overall I found it a relevant, provocative and fascinating read.
http://classes.yale.edu/03-04/anth500b/projects/project_sites/04_Chattaraj/Introduction.html

This book was first published in 1885 in French.
O0

I really laugh at these type discussions. Nothing here explains the decline of this civilization and the continued advancement of Western civilization.  The operative question is why didn't Egypt and so-called other African nation (so-called) civilizations advance parallel to Western civilization since Egypt and other African nations had foundations of modern civilization?

Ethiopia did. It wasnt until very recently(I'm thinking 60's) that Europe pushed past Ethiopia.

We had everything you could find in the Western world.

Vast Architectural structures.
Expansive writing system.
A renaissance of thought and art

We got decimated by communism though and a failed monarchy which lost legitimacy and used cavemen tactics to try to hold on to it.

 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

We were in the league of nations, and actually considered caucasians by many based on them not thinking others could do this.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/League_of_Nations_Anachronous_Map.png)

It may seem laugh worthy to you, but where exactly were your ancestors at that point? ;D
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 18, 2014, 03:09:10 PM
Neymar,

The only of his ancestors that Oldsport has ANY interest in were whipping and raping his other Ancestors - the Black ones.  It is the former white ones, not the latter, that he wishes to emulate and that he adores.

He heaps nothing but scorn and derision upon anyone African.  He diminishes any and all accomplishments - or fails to acknowledge them - of African people.  EVEN when they are celebrating white folks (e.g., origins of Memorial Day in S., Carolina) 

Such is the state of his sick "mind."

Be forewarned, young man.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 18, 2014, 03:33:31 PM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).....

O0

I really laugh at these type discussions. Nothing here explains the decline of this civilization and the continued advancement of Western civilization.  The operative question is why didn't Egypt and so-called other African nation (so-called) civilizations advance parallel to Western civilization since Egypt and other African nations had foundations of modern civilization?

You laugh, Oldsport, out of supreme and in my experience UNparalleled IGNORANCE.  

Your misconceptions of history are legion.  Your question demonstrates it again.

First off though - to clear the air.  

This thread is not designed to explain the decline of ancient African civilizations.  Hell!!  You don't even believe that Africans HAD civilizations.  But, in desperation and because EVEN you won't say that, you skip all over that to make that stupid critique of the thread.  And you do it - ONCE AGAIN - ONLY AFTER your name is mentioned in the thread.  STOP "GOOGLING" YOURSELF, clown!!!

Civilizations and countries/nation states - SURPRISE TO YOU, ignoramus - rise and fall!!!   That is the ebb and flow of history.  It has always been thus.

Ever heard of these:
Vikings?
Romans?
Franks?
Ming Dynastry?
British Empire?
Mongols?
Aztecs?
Incas?

Each of them had internal and external factors which led to their decline, downfall or domination by others.

However, Laughing Boy, that does NOTHING to diminish the accomplishments that ancient peoples achieved.  Because of your "legacy of disbelief" that Black people are capable of anything, you find it difficult to accept or digest that the POINT OF THIS THREAD IS THAT:
FAR AHEAD OF WHITE FOLKS, IT WAS BLACK/AFRICAN PEOPLE WHO DEVELOPED HIGH FORMS OF CIVILIZATION, ARCHITECTURE, RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS, etc., etc., etc.

DEAL WITH THAT before you go off on a tangent about decline.

You won't and you can't, but I challenge you anyway.

So, keep on laughing and making a fool of yourself.
O0  17171
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on June 18, 2014, 04:14:41 PM
Neymar,

The only of his ancestors that Oldsport has ANY interest in were whipping and raping his other Ancestors - the Black ones.  It is the former white ones, not the latter, that he wishes to emulate and that he adores.

He heaps nothing but scorn and derision upon anyone African.  He diminishes any and all accomplishments - or fails to acknowledge them - of African people.  EVEN when they are celebrating white folks (e.g., origins of Memorial Day in S., Carolina) 

Such is the state of his sick "mind."

Be forewarned, young man.

O0

I am glad my folk made the boat ride and survived. Guess what Fred Douglas and even Cassius Clay better known as Mohammed Ali felt the same way. I can post their quotes.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 18, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Oh,....now YOU gonna quote a member of the Nation of Islam ("The white man is the devil.") to justify yourself.

You can quote ANYONE you want.  But,.....

It won't change how sick and infected with white so-called supremacy your thinking is.

But being such an "expert" on Douglass, as you claim, at least you should spell his name correctly.  Ali's name, too.

O0

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 18, 2014, 10:27:38 PM
Neymar said:

Quote
We were in the league of nations, and actually considered caucasians by many based on them not thinking others could do this.

So what is YOUR reaction to your people being designated as "honorary whites," so to speak?

I grew up hearing about something similar.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 20, 2014, 12:47:42 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eDdyI89tL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX278_SY278_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)


You can read the intro to the book here:  http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Black-Hebrews-Gert-Muller-ebook/dp/B00CMUSGIE/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kstore_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1XYKXP141CRYNQMXBPNS


He GETS RIGHT TO THE POINT: 
THERE IS MUCH EVIDENCE THAT THE ANCIENT HEBREWS WERE BLACK PEOPLE.
Quote
The evidence from the Bible describes the ancient Hebrews as being Afro-haired and Black. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon were Black. Pictures of the ancient Hebrews show this part of Biblical record to be accurate. These pictures are presented here!

This will probably upset some folks, but I for one have no idea why - EXCEPT of course for racists.  I understand why THEY COULD, IF THEY ARE CHRISTIANS, NEVER ACCEPT THAT THE SON OF GOD CAME FROM A BLACK PEOPLE.

But how would they refute the evidence?   Hmmmm...

Especially since Gert Muller wrote a Vol II, also!    :shrug:

It's just out and it's a doozy!!!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61TvqqY6xNL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX278_SY278_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

Quote
In this volume Gert Muller excels himself by simply explaining the forensic proof of the Old Testament Hebrews being Black. He shows you in plain English how forensic anthropologists determine Black racial ancestry in a skeleton. He then shows you those same characteristics in the skeletons excavated in Israel that date back to the Biblical period. He ends it off with a number of pictures which show the same characteristics in Jews of the Christian period. Wonderfully illustrated. It settles the question once and for all!

Oh, science!!!   :read:  With all those inconvenient facts.   :brickwall:

I wonder if Oldsport will remain a Christian if he becomes convinced that Jesus was a Black man...

Oh, my goodness! 

What are the modern day implications of these scientific findings for those fair-skinned folks in Palestine who claim they are the "descendants" of the ancient Hebrew people of the area and are simply "returning home"?

O0 17415
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on June 20, 2014, 08:42:12 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eDdyI89tL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX278_SY278_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)


You can read the intro to the book here:  http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Black-Hebrews-Gert-Muller-ebook/dp/B00CMUSGIE/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kstore_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1XYKXP141CRYNQMXBPNS


He GETS RIGHT TO THE POINT: 
THERE IS MUCH EVIDENCE THAT THE ANCIENT HEBREWS WERE BLACK PEOPLE.
Quote
The evidence from the Bible describes the ancient Hebrews as being Afro-haired and Black. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon were Black. Pictures of the ancient Hebrews show this part of Biblical record to be accurate. These pictures are presented here!

This will probably upset some folks, but I for one have no idea why - EXCEPT of course for racists.  I understand why THEY COULD, IF THEY ARE CHRISTIANS, NEVER ACCEPT THAT THE SON OF GOD CAME FROM A BLACK PEOPLE.

But how would they refute the evidence?   Hmmmm...

Especially since Gert Muller wrote a Vol II, also!    :shrug:

It's just out and it's a doozy!!!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61TvqqY6xNL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX278_SY278_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

Quote
In this volume Gert Muller excels himself by simply explaining the forensic proof of the Old Testament Hebrews being Black. He shows you in plain English how forensic anthropologists determine Black racial ancestry in a skeleton. He then shows you those same characteristics in the skeletons excavated in Israel that date back to the Biblical period. He ends it off with a number of pictures which show the same characteristics in Jews of the Christian period. Wonderfully illustrated. It settles the question once and for all!

Oh, science!!!   :read:  With all those inconvenient facts.   :brickwall:

I wonder if Oldsport will remain a Christian if he becomes convinced that Jesus was a Black man...

Oh, my goodness! 

What are the modern day implications of these scientific findings for those fair-skinned folks in Palestine who claim they are the "descendants" of the ancient Hebrew people of the area and are simply "returning home"?

O0 17415

You race absorbed FOOL.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 20, 2014, 11:05:58 AM
Yeah, as usual, you CAN'T DEAL WITH THE FACTS, so you call names.

But, Oldsport, just for the record, YOU are the main one on Onnidan who has always minimized or ignored Black accomplishment and tries to convince others  :lmao:  that white folks are far superior.

It was YOU in this thread who pulled out one example (railroads) as if THAT per se was the clincher for an argument that was premised on events which took place thousands of years before.  Not to mention that the earliest evidence of working with iron is in Africa, NOT Europe.  Or, as Dr. John Henrik Clarke put it, thousands of years "before Europeans had a window."

The earliest known ART WORK found in Europe is FROM AFRICA or made by Africans.

Then you tried to change the subject to decline of African civilization while demonstrating total ignorance of the historical record of the rise and fall of civilizations world-wide.  As to your question as to why, you really should do some reading.  You could start with Dr. Chancellor Williams' The Destruction of Black Civilization - if you are TRULY interested.  However, since you found it all very funny, we know you don't have an interest, except to hold onto your brainwashed conception of race and history.

But, hey, set us and the record straight, Oldsport, and tell us that you accept as accurate the scientific discoveries showing that it was African people - who before the white people you adore - developed the FIRST civilizations.

(You know, don't you Mr. Cut and Paste, imitation
takes less initiative and intelligence than creativity?)

This thread of 21 pages is full of information about the achievements of African/Black people.  Why not try reading and learning something?  For a change.

So, acknowledge the science and we can move on.

Well, OK, you got me on that one....we're moving on anyway.  

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on June 20, 2014, 11:07:25 AM
Yeah, as usual, you CAN'T DEAL WITH THE FACTS, so you call names.

But, Oldsport, just for the record, YOU are the main one on Onnidan who has always minimized or ignored Black accomplishment and tries to convince others  :lmao:  that white folks are far superior.

It was YOU in this thread who pulled out one example (railroads) as if THAT per se was the clincher for an argument that was premised on events which took place thousands of years before.  Not to mention that the earliest evidence of working with iron is in Africa, NOT Europe.  Or, as Dr. John Henrik Clarke put it, thousands of years "before Europeans had a window."

The earliest known ART WORK found in Europe is FROM AFRICA.

Then you tried to change the subject to decline of African civilization while demonstrating total ignorance of the historical record of the rise and fall of civilizations world-wide.  As to your question as to why, you really should do some reading.  You could start with Dr. Chancellor Williams' The Destruction of Black Civilization - if you are TRULY interested.  However, since you found it all very funny, we know you don't have an interest, except to hold onto your brainwashed conception of race and history.

But, hey, set us and the record straight, Oldsport, and tell us that you accept as accurate the scientific discoveries showing that it was African people - who before the white people you adore - developed the FIRST civilizations.

(You know, don't you Mr. Cut and Paste, imitation
takes less initiative and intelligence than creativity?)

This thread of 21 pages is full of information about the achievements of African/Black people.  Why not try reading and learning something?  For a change.

So, acknowledge the science and we can move on.

Well, OK, you got me on that one....we're moving on anyway

O0

Hey a**  where is Africa now?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 20, 2014, 11:12:07 AM
Where's the Ming Dynasty?
The Vikings?

Do you actually think you are making a point?

Sad. Truly sad.

highlander, come get ya boy!!!  He can't stay on a "singular subject."

No acknowledgement of the science, huh?

Telling!

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on June 20, 2014, 11:19:04 AM
Where's the Ming Dynasty?
The Vikings?

Do you actually think you are making a point?

Sad. Truly sad.

highlander, come get ya boy!!!  He can't stay on a "singular subject."

No acknowledgement of the science, huh?

Telling!

O0

Are you wishing for the fall of America?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 20, 2014, 11:30:23 AM
Where's the Ming Dynasty?
The Vikings?

Do you actually think you are making a point?

Sad. Truly sad.

highlander, come get ya boy!!!  He can't stay on a "singular subject."

No acknowledgement of the science, huh?

Telling!

O0

Are you wishing for the fall of America?

And you demonstrate an amazing lack of logic, also!!!

Non sequitur.

Plus, the USA is not a civilization.  It is a republic.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on June 20, 2014, 11:38:09 AM
Where's the Ming Dynasty?
The Vikings?

Do you actually think you are making a point?

Sad. Truly sad.

highlander, come get ya boy!!!  He can't stay on a "singular subject."

No acknowledgement of the science, huh?

Telling!

O0

Are you wishing for the fall of America?

And you demonstrate an amazing lack of logic, also!!!

Non sequitur.

Plus, the USA is not a civilization.  It is a republic.
O0

You're so smart - you dyam IDIOT. The United States represents the best of Western Civilization. By the way, thanks for reminding the rest of the K----s here the United States is a republican because you would never know it from the ideology that you K----s follow.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 20, 2014, 12:16:29 PM
Where's the Ming Dynasty?
The Vikings?

Do you actually think you are making a point?

Sad. Truly sad.

highlander, come get ya boy!!!  He can't stay on a "singular subject."

No acknowledgement of the science, huh?

Telling!

O0

STILL NO ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF THE SCIENCE, HUH???

Can't do it, can you?

THAT's why you are DESPERATELY trying to change the subject!

What?  :shrug: You didn't think others would notice?   :nono2:

Uh, Oldsport, the USA is NOT a "republican"!!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 20, 2014, 01:39:54 PM
Hmmmmmm,, what happened to the ancient Greek civilization???

But that's not the topic of this thread.

As I said, the dogs may bark, but the caravan moves on........

Our concern here is with the ORIGINS of civilizations.  After  a few thousand years of a distorted history - often corrupted by racists trying to justify their inhumane treatment of others for the purpose of exploiting their resources and labor for selfish reasons - scholars are setting the record straight.

Of course, this upsets those whose WORLDVIEW is based on a belief in white so-called supremacy.  As we have shared in this thread, there are those who question the more recent scientific findings which are based on carbon-dating, DNA and other evidence.  This does not mean that EVERY offer of Black influence or Black origin of civilizations in the ancient world is accurate.  Science is a process.  However, as more evidence is adduced, it has become increasingly clear that the previous versions of history were self-serving and WRONG.

Researcher and author Gurt Muller has written a series of books.  This one deals with the African origins of Greek civilization.

Black Origins of Ancient Greek Civilization

Quote
This book shall explore the evidence for African and Afro-Canaanite formative influences on Crete and mainland Greece. This book differs from Martin Bernal's Black Athena in five fundamental ways:

1) Our Egyptians are, as Anu M’Bantu would say, Unmistakably Black! Bernal’s are somewhat Black.

2) The main Egyptian players in this study are NOT the Hyksos.

3) This study openly acknowledges and emphasizes the Afro-Canaanite origin of the Phoenicians.

4) It posits SEVEN different Black origins and influences on Greek civilization.

5) It shows, with commentary, 42 colour pictures of obviously influential people of African appearance depicted in the art of ALL the various phases of Greek culture.

This book is a must read for all those interested in Black history!

And of course, as we have learned, "Black History is World History."

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TS5IiBnAL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX278_SY278_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

The FREE sample on Amazon is instructive in itself, especially Chapter One

O0 17586
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on June 20, 2014, 04:01:00 PM
Hmmmmmm,, what happened to the ancient Greek civilization???

But that's not the topic of this thread.

As I said, the dogs may bark, but the caravan moves on........

Our concern here is with the ORIGINS of civilizations.  After  a few thousand years of a distorted history - often corrupted by racists trying to justify their inhumane treatment of others for the purpose of exploiting their resources and labor for selfish reasons - scholars are setting the record straight.

Of course, this upsets those whose WORLDVIEW is based on a belief in white so-called supremacy.  As we have shared in this thread, there are those who question the more recent scientific findings which are based on carbon-dating, DNA and other evidence.  This does not mean that EVERY offer of Black influence or Black origin of civilizations in the ancient world is accurate.  Science is a process.  However, as more evidence is adduced, it has become increasingly clear that the previous versions of history were self-serving and WRONG.

Researcher and author Gurt Muller has written a series of books.  This one deals with the African origins of Greek civilization.

Black Origins of Ancient Greek Civilization

Quote
This book shall explore the evidence for African and Afro-Canaanite formative influences on Crete and mainland Greece. This book differs from Martin Bernal's Black Athena in five fundamental ways:

1) Our Egyptians are, as Anu M’Bantu would say, Unmistakably Black! Bernal’s are somewhat Black.

2) The main Egyptian players in this study are NOT the Hyksos.

3) This study openly acknowledges and emphasizes the Afro-Canaanite origin of the Phoenicians.

4) It posits SEVEN different Black origins and influences on Greek civilization.

5) It shows, with commentary, 42 colour pictures of obviously influential people of African appearance depicted in the art of ALL the various phases of Greek culture.

This book is a must read for all those interested in Black history!

And of course, as we have learned, "Black History is World History."

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TS5IiBnAL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX278_SY278_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

The FREE sample on Amazon is instructive in itself, especially Chapter One

O0 17586

Man, you're really funny.  Hey K----, next you'll claim out space travel should be credited to a African. Look man, phony science is phony science. Phony history is phony history - no matter the color. I think the greatest ideas springing from Western Civilization reached its culmination right here in the United States. (I believe it's individual liberty. This is something still not realized in the dark continent.) PUT THAT s**t IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: MisterIkester on June 20, 2014, 05:19:13 PM
However, since you found it all very funny, we know you don't have an interest, except to hold onto your whitewashed conception of race and history.

Fixed it for ya', bruh.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 20, 2014, 07:27:37 PM
Oldsport says:
Quote
Look man, phony science is phony science. Phony history is phony history - no matter the color.

The history that you and I were taught in school is the one that was phony.  They taught us that African / Black folks had never contributed to civilization and by implication that Europeans were superior to everyone else.

Now,....here's the difference between us.  Thank goodness!!!!

I found out I had been lied to and began in the 1960's to learn about our (it pains me to include you) People's history.

You, on the other hand, either never found out that you'd been lied to and continued to believe in myths like the "happy slave" and that whites are supposedly superior or you are too chickenisht to admit - now that you're old and gray and should know better - that what you believed was wrong all along.

So, now, you come in here with vague allusions to phony science and history without a single bit of substantiation.

Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
DISMISSED!!!

I realize that most of the science mentioned in this thread is WAY OVER your pointy little head, Oldsport, but try comprehending some of it anyway.  

Knowing you, you probably believe that drapetomania is a valid scientific concept.
O0



 
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 20, 2014, 10:34:11 PM
The only benefit of conversing with Oldsport is the internal part.

He is SUCH an example of a BRAINWASHED Negro that it is sad.

The realization came to me that he is a willing victim of Damnatio memoriae.  

It is a practice that originated in Ancient times, when, for example in Kemet (Ancient Egypt) a Pharoah who dropped out of favor, like Akhenaten, would be "erased" from history - or at least the attempt was made.
(http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/akhenaten.jpg)

Akhenaten was considered a heretic (and may have been murdered for that reason) for attempting to change the religion to the worship of One God represented by the Sun.

In Kemet, there are also several examples of cartuches (hieroglyphics) which have been chiseled out to remove evidence of others who fell out of favor.

Now, to my point....
On a much larger scale, most European historians (but not all) performed Damnatio memoriae by omitting or falsifying history that demonstrated the intelligence, ingenuity and contributions of African / Black Peoples.  Some of this can be explained by ethnocentrism, but some of it can only be attributed to efforts to use racism to justify enslavement and exploitation for economic gain.

IMO there is no other explanation for ALL of the institutions of Europe - including religion/church, science, economics, law, politics - to JUSTIFY the inhumane treatment, capture, kidnapping, terrorization, torture, exploitation, mass rape and attempted deculturalization of millions upon millions of fellow human beings.

Is there any serious dispute that this is what happened over a period of centuries?

It follows then that "upstanding religious and moral people" (which they claimed to be) to BLESS slave ships and justify that kind of inhumane treatment, they would have to "believe" and propagate the idea that the recipients of such treatment (we, Africans) were unworthy.  That supposed unworthiness was based on the false history that had used a version of Damnatio memoriae to blot Africans out of ancient history.

But the TRUTH CRUSHED TO EARTH WILL RISE AGAIN!!
COUNT ON IT!!

All CONSCIOUS people - no matter their skin color are indebted to the European scholars who dared to keep the records of the true history and the few who risked their reputations and careers to tell and publish the truth long before it was acceptable.  Of course, just as in the case of the book referenced in the OP of this thread, it was routine for such texts to gather dust rather than be referenced by other scholars.

The list of African/Black scholars and researchers and scientists who have helped to bring this knowledge to light in modern times is long.  Those who have helped me along this pathway of discovery and knowledge include: J. A. Rogers, Malcolm X, John G. Jackson, Dr. Ben, Dr. John H. Clarke, Kwame Ture, Dr. James Turner, Dr. R. Murapa, Lerone Bennett, Dr. Ivan van Sertima. Dr. Chancellor Williams, Chinweizu, Dr. Walter Rodney, Listervelt Middleton (thru his guests on his TV show - more on that later) and many others.

As a Wise One once wrote: None are so blind as those who will not see.

For those willing to see, I offer up Listervelt Middleton's classic poem, which in part talks about Damnatio memoriae.  

On The Origin Of Things
by Ancestor Elder Listervelt Middleton


Look around you Black child
your creation is everywhere
Though painted, distorted,
given new names
they bear your prints
just the same
so sharpen your eyes
tune your ear
so you'll know what you see
understand what you hear
you were the first to write
the first to read
humanity sprang
from your black seed
for 110,000 years
you were here alone and
and then the Caucasian man
was born
behind the ice
inside the cold
a chill set in
this new man's soul
other minds have been credited
with the things
they learned from you:
Newton, Pythagoras, Kepler
and Galileo too
sharpen your eyes
tune your ear
so you'll know what you see
understand what you hear

you made the serpent the symbol
of the healing arts
and African justice
was Goddess Maat
who weighed herself
against the African soul
truth and justice blind-fold
the George Washington monument is yours too
a copy of the African Tekenu
the symbol of the Black world's
powers of creation
the Black man's penis
in divine procreation
the king of Southern Egypt
wore the white crown
keep listening
and you'll catch your mouth
when you learn that
the central government in Egypt
was known as the White House
sharpen your eyes
tune your ear
so you'll know what you see
understand what you hear

your God Osiris
was restored to life
long before Buddah
long before Christ
and today
what you call the Madonna and child
is but the first Black family
worshipped 'long the Nile
and when you feel the Spirit-
the Holy Ghost
you should know
it started at Abydos
where God Osiris' body was laid
the Holy Land
where Africans prayed
minute by minute
hour by hour
as you lose your history
you lose your power
so sharpen your eyes
tune your ear
so you'll know what you see
understand what you hear


Can I get a witness!?!?!
O0 17700?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 22, 2014, 11:33:34 PM
Quote
So, now, you come in here with vague allusions to phony science and history without a single bit of substantiation.

Oldsport,

This is your big chance to demonstrate where something in this entire thread is phony science or history.   ::)

We'll wait for it................ :-X
Or not.   ;)
O0  18033

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on June 23, 2014, 10:45:08 AM
Quote
So, now, you come in here with vague allusions to phony science and history without a single bit of substantiation.

Oldsport,

This is your big chance to demonstrate where something in this entire thread is phony science or history.   ::)

We'll wait for it................
:-X
Or not.   ;)
O0  18033



But we will not be holding our breathe...   :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 23, 2014, 05:22:45 PM
East African and Nubian Origins of the Ancient Egyptians

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXy_8QMj57OFjAZefTLSPbM5gTf7sws9PMDjMtpCOuMmeYk0nS1GQU)

Quote
The ancient Egyptians originated in East Africa. Evidence for this can be found in the ancient religious texts of the Egyptians which describe the people and places in the Afterlife. These places coincide with real people and places in East Africa. These real people of East Africa, the Nubians, were considered, in some contexts, demi-gods by the Egyptians. The ancient Egyptian Afterlife Paradise was called the Tuat. It was imagined to be a place of lakes and mountains like East Africa. The Egyptians knew these places because they originated in this region and called it Place of the First Time. The book concludes with some wonderful pictures that make it believable that the ancient Egyptians originated from East Africa. Without Nubia there would have been no dynastic Egypt! The origins of the ancient Egypt we all know and love lie in the predynastic cultures of southern Egypt. This culture created the world’s first city known as Hierakonpolis around 3800 BC. The Egyptians called it Nekhen. In this city was found evidence of the first temple, the first pottery factory, the first brewery, the first image of the Falcon Horus. Hierakonpolis was part of the Naqada predynastic culture of southern Egypt which began around 4000 BC. It was located around 100 miles from Aswan in present-day Nubia.

Few people, however, are aware of the technical accomplishments and cultural impulses that came to Hierakonpolis from Lower and Upper Nubia. It made possible the economic and military expansion that created the Egyptian civilization of dynastic times. Without Nubia there would have been no Hierakonpolis! Witness the Nubian origins of predynastic Egyptian civilization in these pages.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1491286326/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk

Note to Neymar:  Do you have info that Nubia was a "crossroads"?

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 24, 2014, 06:48:22 PM
Neymar said:

Quote
We were in the league of nations, and actually considered caucasians by many based on them not thinking others could do this.

So what is YOUR reaction to your people being designated as "honorary whites," so to speak?

I grew up hearing about something similar.

O0

Neymar, I know you are glued to the TV for La Copa Mundial, but..

So what is YOUR reaction to your people being designated as "honorary whites," so to speak?

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on June 26, 2014, 09:20:17 AM
Neymar said:

Quote
We were in the league of nations, and actually considered caucasians by many based on them not thinking others could do this.

So what is YOUR reaction to your people being designated as "honorary whites," so to speak?

I grew up hearing about something similar.

O0

Neymar, I know you are glued to the TV for La Copa Mundial, but..

So what is YOUR reaction to your people being designated as "honorary whites," so to speak?

O0

Caucasian, in that sense, does not mean white as many Indians were also classified as such erroneously in the past based on perceived features, culture, and lifestyle classifications which they felt met the classical Eurasian standard. It is outdated

It is a view many had/have and is based on old beliefs. I have no view on elder beliefs.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 26, 2014, 11:03:39 AM
Yes, the term was misapplied.

IMO, the important aspect is WHY it was misapplied.  It's pretty clear that the purpose was to claim for white people the by then undeniable achievements and culture of the Indians and Ethiopians.

It was part of the effort to distort and deny history and reality, which continued then and continues now in regard to OTHER BLACK PEOPLE.  European anthropologists even invented "Nilotics" as a separate race from other Black folks in order NOT TO GIVE CREDIT TO BLACK PEOPLE for the undeniably wonderful civilization along the Nile.  Nilotics!!   :lmao:

That would be like carving out Aegeans (Greeks) from the rest of Europe in order to deny to whites any claims to the achievements of the ancient ones (who, in any case, claimed to have been taught by the Black people of Kemet!!!)

Some will recall that the despised apartheid regime of S. Africa bestowed the status of "Honorary White" on visiting Japanese officials and businessmen when it was in their economic interest not to treat the Japanese like Asians were treated (second class) in S. Africa.

But, Neymar, I didn't ask if you believed it  :o .  You may be glad to know that THAT did not cross my mind.  I asked what your REACTION was to your countrymen being so designated.

And..
If you don't mind, Neymar, explain how you now say, "I have no view on elder beliefs.", when earlier you said something to the effect that you gave the weight of "science" to grandmothers' and elders' reports on genealogy.  Seems contradictory, does it not?
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on June 26, 2014, 12:50:02 PM
No I mean older Ethiopians will classify themselves as Caucasian. Menelik even did so in public. That is clearly not the same as saying they are white.

These classifications are important, from a science standpoint. Europeans in General were to fall into line with the "all coons look alike to me" syndrome so these classifications were only created when they realized that in fact not all blacks were the same :lol:

Also this view is something I have no opinion on because it is known to be based on outdated beliefs that has no place in continuing discourse.

Also I have no opinion on how old whites viewed old Ethiopians. Obviously they were impressed, but who wouldn't by a historic world power hundreds of years old at that point?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 26, 2014, 01:33:42 PM
Quote
So, now, you come in here with vague allusions to phony science and history without a single bit of substantiation.

Oldsport,

This is your big chance to demonstrate where something in this entire thread is phony science or history.   ::)

We'll wait for it................
:-X
Or not.   ;)
O0  18033

But we will not be holding our breath...   :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey, Oldsport, you COULD jump on the bandwagon of the guys mentioned in this thread that IT WAS THE IRISH WHO BUILT THE KEMETAN CIVILIZATION!!!   ::)

THAT probably suits you fine and you'd agree that was good history and good science!!!   :o

OLDSPORT HAS YET TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE ACHIEVEMENT OF ANY CIVILIZATION BY AFRICANS / BLACKS!    :brickwall:

What's the matter, Oldsport, your "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy prevents you from EVEN acknowledging it - LET ALONE THAT THEY PRECEDED BY CENTURIES ANY KNOWN WHITE CIVILIZATION.   :read:

PI -TI - FUL!!   :lmao:
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 27, 2014, 12:41:56 AM
Quote
So, now, you come in here with vague allusions to phony science and history without a single bit of substantiation.

Oldsport,

This is your big chance to demonstrate where something in this entire thread is phony science or history.   ::)

We'll wait for it................
:-X
Or not.   ;)
O0  18033

But we will not be holding our breath...   :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey, Oldsport, you COULD jump on the bandwagon of the guys mentioned in this thread that IT WAS THE IRISH WHO BUILT THE KEMETAN CIVILIZATION!!!   ::)

THAT probably suits you fine and you'd agree that was good history and good science!!!   :o

OLDSPORT HAS YET TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE ACHIEVEMENT OF ANY CIVILIZATION BY AFRICANS / BLACKS!    :brickwall:

What's the matter, Oldsport, your "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy prevents you from EVEN acknowledging it - LET ALONE THAT THEY PRECEDED BY CENTURIES ANY KNOWN WHITE CIVILIZATION.   :read:

PI -TI - FUL!!   :lmao:
O0

OLDSPORT!!!!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10487261_10202197005153171_7233694116579362752_n.jpg)

'Cause a vacuum is a terrible thing to waste!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 29, 2014, 02:43:44 PM
Oldsport and y04, this one's for y'all:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10488327_10202215601418066_7342416281719228451_n.jpg)

I admit that you may be lacking the needed requisites for the growth of consciousnee - like your aversion to facts (the aforementioned absurd) - but, being the optimist I am, I am sharing. . . just in case you decide to withstand the pain to improve.
 
O0  18586
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 01, 2014, 10:19:59 AM
Fox had an acient Egypt show planned, but its been scrapped.

We'll Always have these production shots though
(http://i.imgur.com/90pYA8B.jpg)

 :o :o :bow:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 01, 2014, 10:55:30 AM
"FOX has moved ahead with its decision to cancel upcoming supernatural drama Hieroglyph before it airs a single episode.

Hieroglyph was one of several new shows announced as part of FOX’s 2014-2015 primetime schedule earlier this year.

Set in ancient Egypt, the series was set to offer a supernatural twist on the ancient Pharaohs, promising  “palace intrigue, seductive concubines, criminal underbellies and even a few divine sorcerers,” according to the Network.
"

http://www.screenspy.com/industrynews/fox-cancels-hieroglyph-ahead-2015-premiere/ (http://www.screenspy.com/industrynews/fox-cancels-hieroglyph-ahead-2015-premiere/)
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 01, 2014, 02:13:24 PM
 :offtopic:

But, since it appears that the series would have PERPETUATED THE LIE that the Ancient Egyptians were white (or nearly so), THANKS for the EXCELLENT NEWS!!!

Perhaps  ::), after the WAKE UP CALL  :o that Megyn Kelly at FoxNews got about Santa Clause and Jesus of Nazareth, the executives at Fox network decided not to try to push the same BS.

If so,....   :clap:   :clap: 

But, whatever, the reason, it is good when FALSEHOOD is not promulgated any further.

Now, Neymar, if you could just stop slobbering on your keyboard over white/light women....

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 01, 2014, 05:10:53 PM
She is Asian and Native American.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 01, 2014, 05:11:39 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/sKZOEgs.jpg)

You'd wife that dude dont lie :lol:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 01, 2014, 11:46:38 PM
Again:

Quote
psychological projection
1. Projection is the psychological phenomenon where someone thinks everyone else is doing and thinking what they are. It is usually seen as the externalisation of a person's negative traits, placing blame on an outside force such as the environment, a government, a society or other people.
 

Quote
The topic projection is discussed in the following articles:
defense mechanism
TITLE: defense mechanism (human psychology)
3. Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by his own angry feelings, accuses another of harbouring hostile thoughts.

Quote
"A defense mechanism in which the individual attributes to other people impulses and traits that he himself has but cannot accept. It is especially likely to occur when the person lacks insight into his own impulses and traits."

It is good, Neymar, that you are self-revealing in this way, but the essential next step is doing something about it.

O0  18759
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 02, 2014, 10:01:59 AM
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You aint denying.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 02, 2014, 08:59:25 PM
No need to.
I'm on the record.

And.............so are YOU!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 03, 2014, 07:57:15 AM
No need to.
I'm on the record.

And.............so are YOU!
O0

For the record, are you saying shes unattractive?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 03, 2014, 10:12:18 AM
No need to.
I'm on the record.

And.............so are YOU!
O0

For the record, are you saying shes unattractive?

For the record:
Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

In contrast with you, I can find beauty in all shades, but I prefer the beauty of Black women.

For the record:
"attractive" for me?  NO.

Now, since you opened the door, for the record, do you find Lupita BEAUTIFUL and "attractive:"
(https://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/uploads/images/4100041/1379016699/lupita_nyong_o_322x322_0_0_460.jpg)  (http://static.atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/race-lupita-5.jpg)
For the record:
I do.

For the record:
You are the one who thanked white people for "giving us" light skinned women and then hoped that Hispanics would do the same.

Now, if you have something substantive to add to the discussion on the subject of THIS thread, please feel free to offer it.

For example, I asked you specifically whether you thought - better IF you have evidence - that ancient Nubia was a "crossroads" since you tried at the beginning of this thread to deflect credit from Black/African people for the development of the Kemetan civilization.

My question is important because many if not most modern historians and scientists contend that the Nile Civilization took root and first flowered in Nubia.

And, for the record, I have noticed that as the evidence for the Black/African origin of that civilization has continued to be presented in this thread, you have fallen mostly silent  (except to talk about football and now....a TV show and attractiveness of light skinned women).

O0 18888
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Rebakky96 on July 03, 2014, 11:33:37 AM
lol heche allah.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 03, 2014, 11:37:04 AM
So you gonna act like I didnt say, from the jump, that there are plenty of Black egyptians and always have been? Even when I posted picture of my black Egyptian grandmother? :lol: Im rejecting blacks in Ancient Egypt now? :lol: :lol:

I guess attacking revisionist strawmen is easier than getting to the crux of the argument.

I've also said from the jump I dont Luo women attractive, and that includes Lupita.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 03, 2014, 11:52:22 AM
lol heche allah.

http://www.kaa-umati.co.uk/Bantu%20in%20Ancient%20Egypt.htm (http://www.kaa-umati.co.uk/Bantu%20in%20Ancient%20Egypt.htm)

  :popcorn:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 03, 2014, 12:40:17 PM
Neymar,

You can call it revisionist if you want to, but I am referencing YOUR VERY FIRST POST in this thread.  An excerpt:

Quote
I say its pretty short sighted to say Egyptians werent a white race....They were. They were also a brown race, a yellow, and equally important a black race.

Egypt has always, and especially at the apex of its civilization, been a nation of many different cultures and people. A meeting place of people of many different stocks to come together, trade, learn, and even have children. No single ethnic group can claim total credit for what Egypt was.

Which was followed by your conflation of the modern day (or even 2,000 years ago) population of Egypt when the topic of conversation covered a period of 4,000 and more years ago.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 03, 2014, 03:37:55 PM

You race absorbed FOOL.

I will address this.

FOR CENTURIES WHITE PEOPLE HAVE MADE RACE AND RACISM AN ESSENTIAL ELEMENT OF THEIR AND OTHERS SOCIETIES.

FOR CENTURIES SOME WHITE PEOPLE HAVE DISTORTED, IGNORED AND/OR MADE UP HISTORY IN ORDER TO CONFORM TO THEIR RACIST BELIEFS THAT BLACKS / AFRICANS ARE INCAPABLE OF CREATING CIVILIZATION.

FOR CENTURIES WHITE PEOPLE HAVE USED THEIR FALSIFIED HISTORY TO CLAIM THAT BLACKS/AFRICANS ARE INFERIOR AND USED THAT FALSEHOOD TO JUSTIFY INHUMAN TREATMENT AND PHYSICAL AND ECONOMIC EXPLOITATION.

FOR CENTURIES WHITE EXPLOITERS IN THE AMERICAS, AFRICA AND ELSEWHERE HAVE "TAUGHT", and with some success, CONVINCED SOME BLACKS BY WORD AND DEED THAT WHITES AND THEIR CULTURE ARE SUPERIOR.

FOR CENTURIES MANY WHITE HISTORIANS and PHILOSOPHERS HAVE GIVEN THE CREDIT TO EUROPEANS FOR THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF OTHERS.  IMO MOST WHITE PEOPLE ACCEPT SUCH AS TRUE AND MANY non-whites DO ALSO.

FOR CENTURIES MOST WHITE HISTORIANS HAVE IGNORED THE FACT THAT THE ANCIENT GREEKS THEMSELVES SAID IN UNEQUIVOCAL TERMS THAT THEY LEARNED FROM AFRICANS AND THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, THEIR GODS CAME FROM AFRICA.

FOR CENTURIES WHITE ARCHAEOLOGISTS, CLERICS, SCIENTISTS INVENTED AND PROMOTED FALSE AND CRAZY EXPLANATIONS FOR WHY PEOPLE DEPICTED IN ANCIENT TEMPLES AND OLD CHURCHES (even in Europe) APPEARED TO BE BLACK, BUT SOMEHOW WERE NOT.  
(  Paraphrased:
"the paint pigment changed color"
"smoke from a fire turned the Madonna and Child black [but not the rest of the statue],
they weren't African, they were 'Nilotics', etc.],
looking at African faces in stone sculpture and denying they are African - in Ancient Egypt as well as in Veracruz, Mexico,
denying Afrocentric scholars, like Diop, access to the DNA of mummies, etc.   )

FOR CENTURIES WHITE PEOPLE HAVE ENJOYED THE ECONOMIC AND PSYCHIC FRUITS OF THE EXPLOITATION OF OTHERS BASED ON THE LIES ABOUT RACE TOLD AND MAINTAINED BY WHITE SCHOLARS AND INSTITUTIONS AND WHICH MOST OR MANY WHITES and MANY BLACKS BELIEVE.

Oldsport ain't said a mumbling word about ANY of that!!!!!!!!!

BUT,...
Now
that white and Black scholars are exposing those lies and bringing forth the evidence (much or all of which was ALWAYS available),....
Oldsport now says that publicizing the TRUTH about the lies and sharing books and information about the achievements of Black people reflects an obsession about race.


THAT, ladies and gentleman, is POSITIVE PROOF of a brainwashed mind.

Oldsport, ANY time you wish to acknowledge that a Black civilization existed ANYWHERE and praise it, we promise not to tell any white people because we know you are concerned about falling out of favor with racist whites.
O0  18921   
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: MisterIkester on July 04, 2014, 12:05:25 AM
I'm sure they fell outta favor with him around the time they permanently banned him from Stormfront; he just hasn't realized it yet.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 04, 2014, 02:00:17 AM
So you gonna act like I didnt say, from the jump, that there are plenty of Black egyptians and always have been? Even when I posted picture of my black Egyptian grandmother? :lol: Im rejecting blacks in Ancient Egypt now? :lol: :lol:

I guess attacking revisionist strawmen is easier than getting to the crux of the argument.

I've also said from the I jumped up and said I dont find Luo or dark-skinned women attractive, and that includes Lupita.

I corrected that for you.   ::)

Your deflection and revisionism is totally transparent.  It's not a question of "plenty".  It's nothing personal about your wonderful grandmom.  I notice that when you cannot deal with the facts you try to turn the discussion into something personal - a la "I'm not that Ethiopian."

Maybe that isht works on immature school girls, but you're not dealing with them here.

I've quoted your original statement so you can address it if you want.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 04, 2014, 02:02:20 AM
lol heche allah.

http://www.kaa-umati.co.uk/Bantu%20in%20Ancient%20Egypt.htm (http://www.kaa-umati.co.uk/Bantu%20in%20Ancient%20Egypt.htm)

  :popcorn:

Thank you for, at least, returning to the topic at hand.

So,......Do you have some commentary on the link you posted?
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 04, 2014, 10:57:05 PM
It's good to see Ancient Black Civilizations getting more and more play in popular media...

6 Ancient African Architectural Marvels Built Before Greece or Rome Existed

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/06/27/6-ancient-african-architectural-marvels-built-before-greece-or-rome-existed/

..but sometimes some UNVETTED information gets out there.  

I might be wrong to be skeptical, but the claim for the number of years old given to the ruins in South Africa seems a bit out of line to me.

(http://d39ya49a1fwv14.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/South-African-Ruins-600x450.jpg)

I would like to see some verification of the claims made.

However, this article in the Atlanta Black Star contains good information in a very accessible format.

Page Six needs a some checking out also.  I believe, not sure, that Nubia had two "golden ages" and the article only speaks to the second one.

(http://static.atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Nubia_Meroe_Pyramids.jpg)

Still learning....

But ANY WAY YOU CUT IT, civilizations of Mesopotamia and Ancient Kemet PRECEDED BY THOUSANDS OF YEARS THE EMERGENCE OF GREEK OR ROME.  
THOUSANDS OF YEARS.  
THOUSANDS!!
1,000s


Think of the time that has passed since some believe that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified in Palestine.
THOUSANDS OF YEARS!!

(http://img.snaphow.com/wp-content/uploads/images/TimeMaps-Online-World-History-Civilization-Timeline-Map.jpg)
http://www.snaphow.com/4363/timemaps-online-world-history-civilization-timeline-map

And yet, Oldsport and the rest of us were taught only about Greek and Rome BECAUSE they were white and in Europe and fit into the racists' need to justify themselves as superior to others.
O0 19103
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 06, 2014, 11:45:10 AM
Something to think about...

(https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10153645_735210063166555_1530818014390272131_n.jpg)

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 09, 2014, 02:08:50 AM
...I've also said from the jump I dont Luo women attractive, and that includes Lupita.

Yeah, but you also said or implied that Bantus are your natural enemy.

Your preference for white and light skin TO THE EXCLUSION OF DARK SKIN is revoltingly evident.

In this case, it seems quite evident that Luo, for you, is a emphemism for "dark" that you don't find attractive, so let us tease it out.

Do you find this beautiful sister attractive?  (Don't know if she is a Luo and I doubt that you do either.)

(https://foreverblackeffusion.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/1374070_10151993703708420_1380562089_n.jpg?w=326)

Or this attractive Senegalese woman?

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8h_ECydqBbeINwmVyc5qiV-MWsYv7VF0FPfywX4Mvnk-xa6CF)

Or this one (a model)?

(https://gorgeousblackwomen.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kewemar22.jpg?w=238)

Or. since we know you prefer straight(ened) hair, how about this West African sister?

(http://naturallanguages.net/upload/wolof-bride%281%29.jpg)

Or,......are they just too dark for your taste?
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Sierra on July 09, 2014, 07:53:20 AM
Damn Bison!!!! Boy you can really kick some booty. You are the MAN... :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 09, 2014, 09:01:20 AM

Yeah, but you also said or implied that Bantus are your natural enemy.

Which they are in the context I was using.

Quote
Your preference for white and light skin TO THE EXCLUSION OF DARK SKIN is revoltingly evident.

This is simply not true, and I have posted plenty of darker skinned women on here I find attractive whenever asked.

Quote
In this case, it seems quite evident that Luo, for you, is a emphemism for "dark" that you don't find attractive, so let us tease it out.

Actually it just means I dont Luo women attractive. They could be white but if they still looked like alien stick people with their long weird shapes and creepy faces it wouldnt change anything. Also remember Obama is Luo, went back to Kenya where he could have probably got any Luo woman he wanted with his pedigree, and still said "no thanks".

Quote
Do you find this beautiful sister attractive?  (Don't know if she is a Luo and I doubt that you do either.)

(https://foreverblackeffusion.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/1374070_10151993703708420_1380562089_n.jpg?w=326)

No.

Quote
Or this attractive Senegalese woman?

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8h_ECydqBbeINwmVyc5qiV-MWsYv7VF0FPfywX4Mvnk-xa6CF)

You can barely even see her

Quote
Or this one (a model)?

(https://gorgeousblackwomen.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kewemar22.jpg?w=238)

She is not looking forward, but if the side of that nose is true and not wide out then yes.

Quote
Or. since we know you prefer straight(ened) hair, how about this West African sister?

(http://naturallanguages.net/upload/wolof-bride%281%29.jpg)

She actually has a cute face. Much better than what Luo women have.

Quote
Or,......are they just too dark for your taste?
O0

Pure projection mate.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on July 09, 2014, 09:07:29 AM
This is interesting. A question for Neymar. Do dark skin women need to have fine features meaning thin lips and a narrow nose for them to be attractive?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 09, 2014, 09:17:46 AM
This is interesting. A question for Neymar. Do dark skin women need to have fine features meaning thin lips and a narrow nose for them to be attractive?


Depends on facial structure.  I think in general straight noses are universally appealing. Like I know  many people, even over here, choose to remember Mike as he was during thriller.
(http://www.maoentertainment.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Thriller.jpg)

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on July 09, 2014, 09:41:42 AM
This is interesting. A question for Neymar. Do dark skin women need to have fine features meaning thin lips and a narrow nose for them to be attractive?


Depends on facial structure.  I think in general straight noses are universally appealing. Like I know  many people, even over here, choose to remember Mike as he was during thriller.
(http://www.maoentertainment.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Thriller.jpg)



Don't you think that is because of conditioning? Those Thriller pics was not the best Michael looked. 

Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 09, 2014, 09:49:22 AM
This is interesting. A question for Neymar. Do dark skin women need to have fine features meaning thin lips and a narrow nose for them to be attractive?


Depends on facial structure.  I think in general straight noses are universally appealing. Like I know  many people, even over here, choose to remember Mike as he was during thriller.
(http://www.maoentertainment.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Thriller.jpg)



Don't you think that is because of conditioning? Those Thriller pics was not the best Michael looked. 



Best is subjective though, and maybe the people I am around who say he should have stopped there are the exception...I dunno though. That is a lot of exceptions over 3 continents if it is the case though.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Sierra on July 09, 2014, 12:29:52 PM
 A Luo woman ..Looks rather shapely to me.
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608017049762662272&pid=15.1&P=0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 09, 2014, 02:47:15 PM
Neymar said:
Quote
I think in general straight noses are universally appealing.

THIS IS THE EPITOME OF EUROCENTRISM!!!!!
(He doesn't mean "straight" - I assume he means narrow or pointed. 
'Cause nobody is talking here about "crooked" noses.)

European standards of beauty have been projected by Europeans through their media for centuries, are accepted by others LIKE Neymar and then LIFTED UP and CLAIMED TO BE "universal."  GTFOH!!!!

What IS universal, based on what I have read, in perceptions of beauty is SYMMETRY - in face and body.  From what I have read, scientists believe that symmetry represents health and the potential for perpetuating the species in re: the mating instinct.  In the natural world, asymmetric animals are generally unhealthy or perhaps disabled.  I believe that is the science.

NOW....
Among some in West Africa, a space between the front teeth is considered highly beautiful - especially in women.  An African-American woman I knew years ago went to visit West Africa (I have forgotten the country) and was appreciated for her beautiful "gap", which she had grown up covering with her hand when she laughed because she'd been taught it was a "defect."

There is speculation that that particular beauty standard may originate from the fact that long ago when people got lockjaw (tetanus), they could still be fed, which increased survival until remedies could take effect.  There was at least one society where one of the front teeth was extracted as a preventive measure against tetanus.

Now, y'all please take a speculative ride with me:
Had those particular West Africans ruled the world for several hundred years and had their "most beautiful" women graced the covers of the fashion and celebrity magazines for decades (with the back up from aggressive missionaries and military), folks like Neymar would be talking about how a space between the teeth was a "universal" standard of beauty.  PLUS folks, instead of bleaching their skin, would be getting cosmetic dentistry to mimic that space!! 

(Just as some Japanese women had eye surgery on the 'flap' in order to mimic "open eyes.")
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on July 09, 2014, 02:50:37 PM
Neymar said:
Quote
I think in general straight noses are universally appealing.

THIS IS THE EPITOME OF EUROCENTRISM!!!!!
(He doesn't mean "straight" - I assume he means narrow or pointed. 
'Cause nobody is talking here about "crooked" noses.)

European standards of beauty have been projected by Europeans through their media for centuries, are accepted by others LIKE Neymar and then LIFTED UP and CLAIMED TO BE "universal."  GTFOH!!!!

What IS universal, based on what I have read, in perceptions of beauty is SYMMETRY - in face and body.  From what I have read, scientists believe that symmetry represents health and the potential for perpetuating the species in re: the mating instinct.  In the natural world, asymmetric animals are generally unhealthy or perhaps disabled.  I believe that is the science.

NOW....
Among some in West Africa, a space between the front teeth is considered highly beautiful - especially in women.  An African-American woman I knew years ago went to visit West Africa (I have forgotten the country) and was appreciated for her beautiful "gap", which she had grown up covering with her hand when she laughed because she'd been taught it was a "defect."

There is speculation that that particular beauty standard may originate from the fact that long ago when people got lockjaw (tetanus), they could still be fed, which increased survival until remedies could take effect.  There was at least one society where one of the front teeth was extracted as a preventive measure against tetanus.

Now, y'all please take a speculative ride with me:
Had those particular West Africans ruled the world for several hundred years and had their "most beautiful" women graced the covers of the fashion and celebrity magazines for decades (with the back up from aggressive missionaries and military), folks like Neymar would be talking about how a space between the teeth was a "universal" standard of beauty.  PLUS folks, instead of bleaching their skin, would be getting cosmetic dentistry to mimic that space!! 

(Just as some Japanese women had eye surgery on the 'flap' in order to mimic "open eyes.")
O0

 :bow:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 09, 2014, 03:16:54 PM
Narrow nose is not a European only characteristic. Such noses are common throughout africa. The rejection of this falls into Bantu nationalism. I had to call out caller before for claiming Bantu features have a monopoly on the term African.

One need only look at East African dominance(be it in Germany,South Africa, or even Israel) in winning beauty pageants to know what folks look for.   
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: FunCkMaster on July 09, 2014, 06:00:56 PM
Neymar said:
Quote
I think in general straight noses are universally appealing.

THIS IS THE EPITOME OF EUROCENTRISM!!!!!
(He doesn't mean "straight" - I assume he means narrow or pointed. 
'Cause nobody is talking here about "crooked" noses.)

European standards of beauty have been projected by Europeans through their media for centuries, are accepted by others LIKE Neymar and then LIFTED UP and CLAIMED TO BE "universal."  GTFOH!!!!

What IS universal, based on what I have read, in perceptions of beauty is SYMMETRY - in face and body.  From what I have read, scientists believe that symmetry represents health and the potential for perpetuating the species in re: the mating instinct.  In the natural world, asymmetric animals are generally unhealthy or perhaps disabled.  I believe that is the science.

NOW....
Among some in West Africa, a space between the front teeth is considered highly beautiful - especially in women.  An African-American woman I knew years ago went to visit West Africa (I have forgotten the country) and was appreciated for her beautiful "gap", which she had grown up covering with her hand when she laughed because she'd been taught it was a "defect."

There is speculation that that particular beauty standard may originate from the fact that long ago when people got lockjaw (tetanus), they could still be fed, which increased survival until remedies could take effect.  There was at least one society where one of the front teeth was extracted as a preventive measure against tetanus.

Now, y'all please take a speculative ride with me:
Had those particular West Africans ruled the world for several hundred years and had their "most beautiful" women graced the covers of the fashion and celebrity magazines for decades (with the back up from aggressive missionaries and military), folks like Neymar would be talking about how a space between the teeth was a "universal" standard of beauty.  PLUS folks, instead of bleaching their skin, would be getting cosmetic dentistry to mimic that space!! 

(Just as some Japanese women had eye surgery on the 'flap' in order to mimic "open eyes.")
O0

 :nod: :bow:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 09, 2014, 07:47:28 PM
Narrow nose is not a European only characteristic. Such noses are common throughout africa. The rejection of this falls into Bantu nationalism. I had to call out caller before for claiming Bantu features have a monopoly on the term African.

One need only look at East African dominance(be it in Germany,South Africa, or even Israel) in winning beauty pageants to know what folks look for.  

Logic 101

Does not have to be exclusively European for it to BECOME a Euro-"imposed" beauty standard.

Not only that...

Logic 102

YOU said it was "universal."  
Which would mean that in ethnic groups with normally predominant broad noses and full nostrils, they would "traditionally" (before Euro contact) say that narrow noses are the most beautiful AND/OR that their own facial features, including noses, were NOT beautiful.  I don't think you believe that, do you?

You, Neymar, have absorbed and embraced Euro standards of beauty and now turn around to claim they are universal.  You even believed - initially when this whole discussion began months ago - that in expressing your attraction for light skinned women you were speaking on behalf of ALL other Black men.  Something like,  if I recall correctly, "I say what others think."

Something to think about from another (feminist) context:  
“It's hard to fight an enemy who has outposts in your head.”

They've gotten inside your head, young Brother.  And, so far, you've welcomed them in, embraced their agenda and are trying to advance it.  Wake up!

Neymar, I heartily recommend to you YURUGU:  An African-centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior  by Dr. Marimba Ani
(http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1387750212l/188532.jpg)
"Yurugu removes the mask from the European facade and thereby reveals the inner workings of global white supremacy: A system which functions to guarantee the control of Europe and her descendants over the majority of the world's peoples."

NEYMAR
Think about this:
Under what authentically African Elder/Master, other than perhaps your great Grandmother (giving her the benefit of the doubt), have YOU studied?  
An Elder/Master who did not buy into Euro "universals"?  
An Elder/ Master who QUESTIONED the VERY basis of European thought and culture, not just pick at it from around the edges.

Dr. Ani is such an Elder/Master!!

Yet you have studied the writings and thought of many a Euro scholar, have you not?[/color]

Here are a few reviews of YURUGU for your consideration (none are by me):
Quote
CC rated it 5 of 5 stars
Shelves: perpetual-reference, projects
READ THIS BOOK NOW.
It's hard to find; I lucked out with an interlibrary loan program connected to a few universities. It is absolutely worth reading, though, to be fair, written academically and demanding a thorough familiarity with Western history and philosophies.

It also would have scared the crap out of me, being a white man raised in the European mindset and tradition, as of two years ago. It is not racist or reactionary but it does mercilessly reveal the workings of European "thought and behavior" per non-Europeans. If you are willing to read this, do so. Stat.

Quote
Michelle rated it 5 of 5 stars
Recommends it for: anyone I would be interested in
With its searingly accurate description of the insanity of European culture and behavior -- this book provides the best reality-check I have ever seen in writing. Brilliant, accurate, detailed, conceptually extraordinary, this is in my view a must-read for anyone who wants to put words to what we're inside and the details of its wrongness.

Quote
LARC rated it 5 of 5 stars
Recommends it for: Alison
Recommended to LARC by: Sonia Godding
Amazing!!...So far it's one of the most thorough books I've read around the de-construction and analysis of western philosophy, exposing many of the reasons and causes for circumstances experienced by people of color today and the ruling mass minority.

Quote
Alisa rated it 5 of 5 stars
In order to move beyond racism, we have to separate out the development of modern European culture. This books takes out the emotion to help understand the phenomena of how one group of people were able to dominate the world. Through comparing to other cultural paradigms, it raises the consciousness of the reader and take a responsibility of what aspects of all cultures are important to practice to move forward in a more harmonized, just, and spiritual way; if we are willing.

Now, Neymar, as you would say, "Here's the thing..."
I recommended Cheikh Anta Diop's book(s) to you and you said you would check them out.  If you have and mentioned it somewhere, I missed it.  (Feel free to point me to your comments, if you did so.)

I am now recommending YURUGU to you.  It will require of you some expense (about $40, but Amazon offers FREE SHIPPING to students, if you qualify) and DEFINITELY some time to read and digest because it is NOT an easy read.  Trust me on that.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0865432481/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

So, take some time to seek it out, buy it, read it and THEN let's talk, OK? Otherwise, we will continue to talk past each other.

PLUS, as much as I hate to leave a discussion, I will have to discipline myself in order to devote myself to two other major projects.  Other than trying to save you!   LOL!!

1)  I am writing a novel based upon the life of my enslaved and emancipated
great grandmother.  Five chapters already in First Draft with
the help of my wife, who is a published author.
2)  I am a candidate for ALUMNI TRUSTEE for the Howard University
 Board of Trustees and that Endeavor begins in earnest this week.

So, I propose this:
Let's get back together after a while and HOPEFULLY- if you are serious about this discussion and about finding out if the enemy does have outposts in your mind, after all - you have read some or all of YURUGU.  (If you search Onnidan, you will see that I have referred to it several times and if you look around, you can find some FREE excerpts of the book.)

You will not be sorry that you read it.

All the Best, young Brother!!

I'll check back to see your response.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on July 10, 2014, 03:23:48 PM
I'm going to check that book out.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 12, 2014, 03:55:52 AM
I'm going to check that book out.

THAT, my Brother, is an EXCELLENT decision.

I wish you well.

One suggestion for ANYONE reading the book and others (Iceman and CU1994) may want to comment on this also:

I recommend copying (if you are reading a hard copy) the "Terms and Concepts" in the Introductory section and keeping that copy right beside the book as you read - until you become familiar with the meaning and connotations of critical terms like:  Asili, Utamawazo, Utamaroho, Rhetorical Ethic, etc.  In this Edition, it is a GLOSSARY:  http://www.docdroid.net/98ej/yurugu-an-african-centered-critique-of-european-cultural-thought-and-behavior-marimba-ani-smaller.pdf.html

Neymar, based upon my "take" on your (?British?) education, I think you will really appreciate the extent to which Dr. Ani delves into classical European philosophy and writings (especially by Plato) to make her assessments.  ['Becca', you might want to check out the book as well.]

Well worth the effort it takes..... not an easy read.  WELL WORTH IT

I'm pulling for you, Man.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 16, 2014, 03:18:07 AM
Ice,

VERY impressive.   :bow:   :clap:   :bow:   :clap:

There's a big overlap of my library with yours, but yours is bigger re: ancient times.

Let me ask you:  

Which 2 or 3 or 4 of those books you would recommend for someone just starting their reading in this important discipline?

Secondly, given your wide-ranging reading:

If you were stranded......, which ONE would YOU want to have.

O0

Anacalypsis, Marcus Garvey, Nile Valley Contributions, YURUGU, Psychotechnology of Brainwashing and The Destruction fo Black Civilization are essential for finding the truth and tending to a peoples self-esteem...  

Anacalypsis Vol 1-2, Geoffrey Higgins
Marcus Garvey - Message to the People The Course of African Philosophy, Tony Martin
Nile Valley Contributions to Western Civilization, Anthony Browder
Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys Vol 1-4, Jawanza Kujufu
"YURUGU: An African Centered Critique of European Cultural Thought and Behavior", Marimba Ani
"Black Truth", J Asar Jubal
"Psychotechnology of Brainwashing", Kwabena F. Ashanti  
Black Athena Vol 1-2, Martin Bernal
Worlds Great Men of Color, J A Rogers
"When the Moors Ruled In Europe", Bettany Hughes
"The Isis Papers:  The Key to the Colors", Dr Frances Cress Welsing
"Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans", Harriet A Washington
"The Destruction fo Black Civilization",  Chancellor Williams


These are all essential IMHO - Anthony Browder's book is an encyclopedia of info on Egypt, the others are Necessary to Grasp the European Pysche, their Passion for Revising REAL History, their Fear of Melaninated Peoples, the Use of Religion to Manipulate and Tools Used to Prevent the Next Messianic Male...

All are required Bison66, so as to really grasp what has transpired and what is still going on in this endless battle to discredit our very existence as a people... Marinate on that for a moment...  

 P E A C E!!!  

As was said back in the day, "Bro, YOU ARE DROPPING SCIENCE!!"

I endorse your great suggestions for getting started:
Anacalypsis, Marcus Garvey, Nile Valley Contributions, YURUGU, Psychotechnology of Brainwashing and The Destruction fo Black Civilization are essential for finding the truth and tending to a peoples self-esteem...  

I have and have read 3 of those.  (I have the two Garvey titles listed below.)

As I said, because Politics has always been - and since the 70's Pan-Africanism in particular - my main interest, my recommended book list has a somewhat different focus.  But it overlaps, complements, supports yours and IMO points to the ways to build upon the knowledge contained in the more historical books on your and my list.

My recommendations for starters:

Nile Valley Contributions to Western Civilization     by Anthony Browder
 
The West and the Rest of Us                                   by Chinweizu

How Europe Under-Developed Africa                       by Walter Rodney

Destruction of Black Civilization                               by Chancellor Williams

Mis-Education of the Negro                                     by Carter Woodson

Class Struggle in Africa OR Africa Must Unite!      by Kwame Nkrumah

They Came Before Columbus                                    by Ivan Van Sertima

THEN

Afrocentricity OR The Afrocentric Idea                                               by Molefi Asante

Consciencism: Philosophy and Ideology for De-Colonisation            by Kwame Nkrumah

YURUGU: An African Centered Critique
of European Cultural Thought and Behavior"                                   by Marimba Ani
                                                                      
The Cultural Unity of Africa                                                               by Cheikh Anta Diop

The Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey                 edited by Amy Jacques Garvey

Race First: The Ideological and Organizational
Struggles of Marcus Garvey and the Universal
Negro Improvement Association                                                       by Tony Martin


If I were stranded on that proverbial tropical island:  YURUGU

O0

Found this tonight.

You can read the Walter Rodney classic on-line:  http://www.blackherbals.com/walter_rodney.pdf

HOW EUROPE UNDERDEVELOPED AFRICA

(http://www.africaworldpressbooks.com/catalog/9781574780482--HOW%20EUROPE.jpg)

Quote
Rodney on Power
"The decisiveness of the short period of colonialism and its negative consequences for Africa spring mainly from the fact that Africa lost power. Power is the ultimate determinant in human society, being basic to the relations within any group and between groups. It implies the ability to defend one's interests and if necessary to impose one's will by any means available. In relations between peoples, the question of power determines maneuverability in bargaining, the extent to which a people survive as a physical and cultural entity. When one society finds itself forced to relinquish power entirely to another society, that in itself is a form of underdevelopment."

To order the book, CHOOSE TO SUPPORT OUR OWN:
http://www.africaworldpressbooks.com/servlet/Detail?no=913

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: iceman4221 on July 18, 2014, 01:11:24 AM
I'm going to check that book out.

THAT, my Brother, is an EXCELLENT decision.

I wish you well.

One suggestion for ANYONE reading the book and others (Iceman and CU1994) may want to comment on this also:

I recommend copying (if you are reading a hard copy) the "Terms and Concepts" in the Introductory section and keeping that copy right beside the book as you read - until you become familiar with the meaning and connotations of critical terms like:  Asili, Utamawazo, Utamaroho, Rhetorical Ethic, etc.  In this Edition, it is a GLOSSARY:  http://www.docdroid.net/98ej/yurugu-an-african-centered-critique-of-european-cultural-thought-and-behavior-marimba-ani-smaller.pdf.html

Neymar, based upon my "take" on your (?British?) education, I think you will really appreciate the extent to which Dr. Ani delves into classical European philosophy and writings (especially by Plato) to make her assessments.  ['Becca', you might want to check out the book as well.]

Well worth the effort it takes..... not an easy read.  WELL WORTH IT

I'm pulling for you, Man.
O0

Sound advice, until such time as the words create by Dr Ani are absorbed into your conscience and becomes "part and parcel" of your repertoire of words you will need to go back and review their meaning while reading this awesome book... 

This book, if studied appropriately, will be life transforming to the reader...   Let the journey begin...
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 20, 2014, 11:14:58 PM
Thanks, IceMan.

Good points.

Neymar,
Have you begun to check YURUGU out? (Not rushing you.  Just curious.)

Did you ever check out Cheikh Anta Diop's work?

O0 20241
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 24, 2014, 03:50:37 AM
The European Admission of Their Purposeful Cover Up of Kemet(Ancient Egypt) ....From Their Own Anthropologists and Scholars...


Since I know Oldsport searches for his name on the Board so he can post fact-averse assertions and non-sensical talking points, I mention his name at the outset.

This message is PARTICULARLY FOR HIM as he suffers from the misconception of white people's ice being colder.

In this video compilation, assorted WHITE SCHOLARS EXPLAIN HOW AND WHY FAKE AND MALICIOUSLY FALSE 'SCIENCE' WAS USED TO DENY THE AFRICA ORIGINS OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN (KEMETAN) CIVILIZATION.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raUIeKJJWAg#t=38)

Oldsport, I searched 'til I found one where they didn't use big words...just for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raUIeKJJWAg

So, Oldsport:
1) Do you acknowledge that there WERE ancient African/Black civilizations?

2) What evidence or examples do YOU have of "fake science"?

You've RUN AWAY from both of those questions, so why not answer them now?

O0 20642
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 04, 2014, 02:21:04 AM
3000 B.C.
Ancient Egypt

The first documented evidence of Interpreting as a profession is in the Heiroglyphs.
 

AND.........

95 B.C.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Sphinx_Psammetique_II_1104.jpg/330px-Sphinx_Psammetique_II_1104.jpg)

Pharaoh Psamtik II created an interpreter class
Sending significant numbers of boys to Greece to be trained in that language.
http://naturallanguages.net/menu_list.php?data=b2Zmc2V0PTEyJmxldHRlcl9ubz03JnBhZ2VjbnQ9MCZzZWFyY2g9JnNlYXJjaHN0cmluZz0=%7C%7C&cid=521


Quote
Psamtik II led a foray into Nubia in 592 BC, marching as far south as the Third or even the Fourth Cataract of the Nile according to a contemporary stela from Thebes (Karnak) which dates to Year 3 of this king's name and refers to a heavy defeat that was inflicted upon the kingdom of Kush.[2] A well-known graffito inscribed in Greek on the left leg of the colossal seated statue of Ramesses II, on the south side of the entrance to the temple of Abu Simbel, records that:
"When King Psammetichus (ie. Psamtik II) came to Elephantine, this was written by those who sailed with Psammetichus the son of Theocles, and they came beyond Kerkis as far as the river permits. Those who spoke foreign tongues (Greek and Carians who also scratched their names on the monument) were led by Potasimto, the Egyptians by Amasis.[3]
Kerkis was located near the Fifth Cataract of the Nile "which stood well within the Cushite Kingdom."
[4]
This was the first confrontation between Egypt and Nubia since the reign of Tantamani.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psamtik_II

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Temple_of_Hibis.jpg/330px-Temple_of_Hibis.jpg)
The Temple of Hibis was founded by Psamtik II at Kharga Oasis.


THIS MAY BE THE FIRST DOCUMENTED "PSYCHOLOGY" EXPERIMENT:

Quote
Psamtik and his discovery

The first attempt of determining the origin of human language was documented in Herodotus’s Histories and relates to the Egyptian Pharaoh Psamtik I. Curious about the origin of language, he decided to isolate two infants from the human community and discover whether they’d be able to start talking without having any real language to imitate. The infants were sent to a shepherd whose task was to take care of them and listen to the first sounds they utter.  After some time, the shepherd allegedly heard one of the babies cry “bekos” which was a Phrygian word for bread. This had led Pharaoh Psamtik to believe that the Phrygian race was older than the Egyptians and this is the single major conclusion he draw from this experiment.
http://languages.com/2013/06/26/back-to-the-origins-where-does-human-language-come-from/

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 05, 2014, 12:07:37 AM
This is a little  :offtopic:, but this may be the best place to share it.

This was posted on Facebook today by one of "my students."  (I did not teach him, but he was a student leader while I was working in Student Activities and Student Affairs.)  He is an attorney.

Quote

Think Africa. How can we not? Thirty-four years ago, I wrote a graduate thesis on US non-recognition of Angola and challenged its legality arguing that Angola was a nation state. On today, at the Willard Hotel in DC I heard the VP of Angola deliver a powerful speech about its development, growth, and vision for itself and for Africa. The packed audience included some who likely opposed its recognition in 1980. Africa is changing and Angola's growth and development reflects that change.

Twenty minutes later at the National Press Club, just across the Street, I listened as the President of South Africa, Jacob Zuma, addressed yet another crowded room in an authentic and passionate speech about South Africa, its people and its development, along with a parenthetical tribute to Nelson Mandela.

Both officials spoke about imperfect but robust economic growth and the future of Africa. Zuma added definitively that South Africa is a part of Africa. And I thought that Black Americans need to similarly acknowledge that we too are a part of Africa, and that this powerful reclamation is long overdue. The Tarzan-King of the jungle days are long gone and Africa presents a new horizon, full of challenge and opportunity. The audiences thus far have been up to 25% non-Black: bankers, hedge fun players, investors, and many other business interests. Amazingly, some of us still think that Africa is the "dark continent" and disclaim her in any way possible.

The African continent is larger than India and China combined and its population is growing exponentially. As Zuma stated it presents enormous consumer markets and tremendous economic promise. Our reasons transcend that. But where are black Americans in this equation? China knows and is increasingly present even in the little African villages. The ground motion for the African Summit is incredible, and the dominant press coverage is typically wanting.

In the spirit of Sylvester Williams, W.E.B. Dubois, Marcus, Garvey, Malcolm X, Kwame Nkrumah, Sekou Toure, Patrice Lumumba, Steve Biko, Nelson Mandela and so many many others.

I sound the clarion call for reclamation of our mother land, and all that it means to our competitive global human development. Africa is calling our name and lends value to our identity and capacity.

This is neither fiction nor a figment of my imagination.

How can we not think Africa? We are a part of her.

O0  22214
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 13, 2014, 12:59:52 PM
Because of the FALSIFICATION of history over centuries OR IGNORANCE of anthropological findings, even well-educated and well-meaning Black / African people will sometimes say, "We are an oral People," as a way to "defend" against the common, but mistaken, belief that ancient (and modern) Africans had no "scripts" - no writing systems.

As Dr. Molefi Asante has correctly stated, there is more extant writing by African People than ANY other ancient people on the planet.  Hieroglyphs, anyone???

There was a comment on this Board about West Africans not having a writing system.  NOT TRUE!!

So,....what ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THAT THE EARLIEST WRITING SYSTEMS IN AFRICA PRE-DATE THE EARLIEST FOUND WRITING SYSTEMS IN EUROPE BY NOT DECADES, NOT CENTURIES BUT BY TWO MILLlENNIA PLUS?[/size]  [Oldsport, that is more than 2,000 years.]

11 Ancient African Writing Systems That Demolish the Myth that Black People were Illiterate

Quote
Proto-Saharan (5000 – 3000 B.C.)
Dr. Clyde Winters, author of The Ancient Black Civilizations of Asia, wrote that before the rise of the Egyptians and Sumerians there was a wonderful civilization in the fertile African Sahara, where people developed perhaps the world’s oldest known form of writing.
These inscriptions of what some archaeologists and linguists have termed “proto-Saharan,” near the Kharga Oasis west of what was considered Nubia, may date back as early as  5000 B.C.....

(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Oued-Mertoutek-engraving-600x529.jpg)

...By contrast, continental Europe’s oldest writing, Greek, was not fully in use until c. 1400 B.C.  (a clay tablet found in Iklaina, Greece) and is largely derived from an older African script.
The oldest Asian writing, proto-cuneiform, dates to around 3000 B.C. (clay texts found at Jemdet Nasr). However, the oldest known African writing systems are several centuries older.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/08/08/11-ancient-african-writing-systems-demolish-myth-black-people-illiterate/

(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Proto-Sinaitic-script.jpg)
^^
Quote
Wadi El-Hol or ‘Proto-Sinaitic’ (2000 B.C. – 1400 B.C.)
In 1999, Yale University archaeologists identified an alphabetic script in Wadi El-Hol, a narrow valley between Waset (Thebes) and Abdu (Abydos) in southern Egypt. Dating to about 1900 B.C., the script bears resemblance to the Egyptian hieroglyphs, but also the much older “proto-Saharan” writing system.
A similar inscription that dates to 1500 B.C. was found in Serabit el-Khadim on Africa’s Sinai peninsula, and has been deemed by linguists to be the basis for the so-called “proto-Canaanite” and “Phoenician” scripts.
This provides proof that Phoenician writing began on the African continent.

Oh, those crafty Phoenicians that we all learned about in school.

More....
O0


O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 13, 2014, 01:02:31 PM
Continued....

Re: my reference to West Africa:
(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Nsibidi-Sheet-2.png)

Quote
Nsibidi (5000 B.C. – present)
Nsibidi is an ancient script used to write various languages in West Central Africa. Most notably used by the
Uguakima and Ejagham (Ekoi) people of Nigeria and Cameroon, nsibidi is also used by the nearby Ebe, Efik,
Ibibio, Igbo and Uyanga people.
The nsibidi set of symbols is independent of Roman, Latin or Arabic influence, and is believed by some
scholars to date back to 5000 B.C., but the oldest archaeological evidence ever found (monoliths in Ikom,
Nigeria) dates it to 2000 B.C.

Similar to the Kemetic medu neter, nsibidi is a system of standardized pictographs. In fact, both nsibidi and
the Egyptian hieroglyphs share several of the exact characters.
Nsibidi was divided into sacred and public versions, however, Western education and Christian
indoctrination drastically reduced the number of nsibidi-literate people, leaving the secret society version as
 the last surviving form of the symbols.
Still, nsibidi was transported to Cuba and Haiti via the Atlantic slave trade, where the anaforuana and veve
symbols derived from the west African script.

(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/detail-pendant-with-vai-script.jpg)
Quote
^ ^ Vai (3000 B.C. – present)
Vai is one of the world’s oldest alphabetic scripts in continuous use, with more than 150,000 users in
present-day Liberia and Sierra Leone.
It’s a highly advanced syllabary writing system with more than 210 distinct characters representing various
consonants and vowel sounds used in the Vai language (a descendant of ancient Mande).
The popular story told about Vai is that it’s a wholly unique script invented circa 1830 by a West African
whose friends helped him remember the writing system in a dream. However, evidence of its antiquity
comes from inscriptions from Goundaka, Mali, that date to 3000 B.C.

And this one is for Neymar:
(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Geez_script_sample.svg_-600x375.png)

Quote
The Ge’ez script is an advanced syllabary script consisting of 231 characters used for
writing in several Ethiopic languages. It is unquestionably one of the oldest writing systems in continuous
use anywhere in the world...
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/08/08/11-ancient-african-writing-systems-demolish-myth-black-people-illiterate/8/

O0  23353
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 14, 2014, 01:35:26 AM
Shortly after this thread began, one of the earliest comments - seemingly TO ME to be an attempt to minimize OR deny the African/Black origins of the Ancient Egyptian civilization - was to allege that Kemet was a crossroads and that many different peoples contributed to its greatness.

I believe it safe to say - without fear of contradiction - that that particular allegation was "dismissed with prejudice" and that the subsequent dozens of pages of posts have put that claim where it belonged:  in the dustbin of misrepresented and twisted "his story."  It is that centuries-long MALICIOUS effort to deny AFRICA AND AFRICANS our rightful place and to claim for whites the originality and contributions of BLACK PEOPLE that is finally being corrected by white and Black scholars.

Now,....take a look at the images and information in this beautiful blog devoted to the presence of Africans in VERY EARLY EUROPE.
http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/post/72888432946/maybe-this-is-a-crazy-question-but-how-did-europeans

People of Color in European Art History

Quote
Maybe this is a crazy question, but how did Europeans know what Africans looked like?...

...There are a lot of things I could say here. But I’m just going to do my best to answer your question, and the answer is either very simple or very complicated, depending on your current point of view.

1. “They” knew what people with brown skin looked like because people with brown skin had been there literally THE ENTIRE TIME. Some (and father back, ALL) of “them” had brown skin themselves.

2. “People with Brown Skin” and “Europeans” are not separate and mutually exclusive groups.

3. No matter how far back you go, the mythical time that you’re looking for, when all-white, racially and culturally isolated Europe was “real”, will continue to recede from your grasp until it winkles out the like imaginary place it is.

We can just keep going back. In every area, from all walks of life, rich and poor, kings and peasants, artists and iconoclasts, ...

Italy, 79 AD:
(http://media.tumblr.com/6e3103f3a73cf5dcacf223dc9c627618/tumblr_inline_mz77ip5uny1rpr1t4.jpg)

France, 1220s:
(http://media.tumblr.com/4416a4a14d808cb84122f4bc4611fffe/tumblr_inline_mz76w1YzIz1rpr1t4.png)

Poland, 1539:
(http://media.tumblr.com/35d9181e9c36eab92999b5ca778be085/tumblr_inline_mz76awxfbV1rpr1t4.png)

Germany, 1480s:
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/983230bdc1d5328c1cbb575b00bcda44/tumblr_mw65j8IE3i1ssmm02o1_500.png)

Spain, 1420s:
(http://media.tumblr.com/bc18db7731bcbd54462b359a912b6f0d/tumblr_inline_mz76jcMCqZ1rpr1t4.png)

O0  23422
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 22, 2014, 04:56:59 PM
TO Olds..t!!
Quote
So, now, you come in here with vague allusions to phony science and history without a single bit of substantiation.

Oldsport,

This is your big chance to demonstrate where something in this entire thread is phony science or history.   ::)

We'll wait for it................
:-X
Or not.   ;)
O0  18033



But we will not be holding our breathe...   :lol: :lol: :lol:

Surprise.  SURPRISE!!!   ::)
No response from Olds..t on what he claims is phony science and phony history.

Such a sad excuse for a human being.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: soflorattler on August 22, 2014, 06:04:44 PM
TO Olds..t!!
Quote
So, now, you come in here with vague allusions to phony science and history without a single bit of substantiation.

Oldsport,

This is your big chance to demonstrate where something in this entire thread is phony science or history.   ::)

We'll wait for it................
:-X
Or not.   ;)
O0  18033



But we will not be holding our breathe...   :lol: :lol: :lol:

Surprise.  SURPRISE!!!   ::)
No response from Olds..t on what he claims is phony science and phony history.

Such a sad excuse for a human being.
O0

To deny your (OS) history is to deny He who created you.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 23, 2014, 01:24:34 AM
(https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10590669_732145353487628_3416185932699316795_n.jpg?oh=0963def808c413a7b4d150e6f8d767b8&oe=547E4883)

And Olds..t, it's even worse if you accept the slave master's version of HisStory.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 26, 2014, 01:05:26 AM
So,....let's see.....

Olds..t says that there's phoney science and history out there.
Others point out examples of such and provide video evidence of white scholars asserting that much of what "we" were taught which omitted African/Black contributions to or origination of certain aspects of civilization in ancient times WAS phoney science and history.
Olds..t goes silent.
Logic dictates that - since he has offered no contrary information - he agrees with those scholars.

Interesting.
O0  24252
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 26, 2014, 10:37:37 AM
Quote
So, Oldsport:
1) Do you acknowledge that there WERE ancient African/Black civilizations?


2) What evidence or examples do YOU have of "fake science"?

Y'all, Oldsport cannot even acknowledge that ancient African/Black civilizations existed!!!

Can't bring himself to do it!!!
Just amazing!!

He can berate Black people, find everything negative possible to say about us all day long.  In this thread he raised up the issue of "what happened" to ancient Black civilizations AS IF he thought he was making a point......... :lmao:
 :offtopic:

But he cannot - with his lack of knowledge and "NOT SO MUCH" white so-called supremacist training - bring himself to even acknowledge the existence of scientific, architectural, philosophical, mathematical and other breakthroughs by Black people CENTURIES BEFORE THE WHITE PEOPLE HE SO IDOLIZES ACCOMPLISHED SIMILAR THINGS.

It's a sad case...

BUT MUCH MORE OF INTEREST:
HAS ANYONE BEGUN TO READ THE pdf VERSION OF YURUGU posted a bit earlier in this thread?


If so, any comments?

O0  24280
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 31, 2014, 12:44:18 PM
So, Neymar....

Have you begun to check out YURUGU?

O0
24476
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Neymar on August 31, 2014, 07:24:02 PM
So, Neymar....

Have you begun to check out YURUGU?

O0
24476

It's sitting in my cart on amazon. I'll buy it next time I log in there. I planned to get it before I left the country but I forgot.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 01, 2014, 12:07:40 AM
So, Neymar....

Have you begun to check out YURUGU?

O0
24476

It's sitting in my cart on amazon. I'll buy it next time I log in there. I planned to get it before I left the country but I forgot.

Cool!

Remember though that I posted a link to a free pdf version.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 14, 2014, 10:13:13 AM
Some interesting FACTS from Ancient times...

7 Black People Who Had a Great Impact on Greco-Roman Civilization and Culture

Here are three of them:

(http://static.atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/imhotep.jpg)

Quote
Imhotep
In ancient Egypt, or Kemet, Hippocrates (c. 460 – c. 370 B.C.), the Greek physician who the Western world considers the “father of medicine,” learned about diseases from the previous explorations of Imhotep (c. 2650 – 2600 B.C.), the Egyptian scholar who established diagnostic medicine about 2,500 years earlier. This early renaissance man — priest, astronomer and physician — was described as “the first figure of a physician to stand out clearly in the mists of antiquity” by the British medical trailblazer William Osler.[/b]

(http://d39ya49a1fwv14.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Apuleius.jpg)

Quote
Lucius Apuleius
Lucius Apuleius (c. 124-180 A.D.), whose most famous work is his novel The Golden a** , or Metamorphoses, is yet another African writer who left a major imprint in Greco-Roman culture.
Apuleius was born in Madaurus, Numidia (modern Algeria), on the North African coast. Another one of his works is On the God of Socrates. The Golden a**  is the only Latin novel that has survived in its entirety and ends with the hero, also named Lucius, being rescued by the African goddess Isis.

(http://static.atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Septimius-Severus-600x379.png)

Quote
Septimius Severus
Septimius Severus (April 11, 145 – Feb. 4, 211), also known as Severus, seized power after the death of Emperor Pertinax in 193 during the Year of the Five Emperors. Severus was born in Leptis Magna in the Roman province of Africa.
In 203 A.D., Severus had a massive arch constructed in the imperial forum. According to Rashidi, this monument is considered one of Italy’s most important triumphant arches. “Septimius is even said to have built a marble tomb for Hannibal Barca — early Rome’s African nemesis. Indeed, because of his own African origins, Severus has been referred to as ‘Hannibal’s revenge,’” added Rashidi.
After reigning for more than 17 years, Severus died while conducting a military campaign in York in northern Britain, on Feb. 4, 211. He was the last Roman emperor to die of natural causes for almost 100 years.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 04, 2014, 01:18:04 AM
Quote
So, Oldsport:
1) Do you acknowledge that there WERE ancient African/Black civilizations?


2) What evidence or examples do YOU have of "fake science"?[/size]

Y'all, Oldsport cannot even acknowledge that ancient African/Black civilizations existed!!!

Can't bring himself to do it!!!
Just amazing!!

He can berate Black people, find everything negative possible to say about us all day long.  In this thread he raised up the issue of "what happened" to ancient Black civilizations AS IF he thought he was making a point......... [/size]:lmao:
 :offtopic:

But he cannot - with his lack of knowledge and "NOT SO MUCH" white so-called supremacist training - bring himself to even acknowledge the existence of scientific, architectural, philosophical, mathematical and other breakthroughs by Black people CENTURIES BEFORE THE WHITE PEOPLE HE SO IDOLIZES ACCOMPLISHED SIMILAR THINGS.

It's a sad case...

...O0
Such a sad case....
O0  26576
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 04, 2014, 10:49:47 PM
We've touched on Asia before, but the ancient Black/African presence there is still being uncovered...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51djwbzS-6L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX278_SY278_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

Unmistakably Black: Sculpture and Paintings From Asia's First Civilisation

Y'all, the Kindle version is only 99 cents!!

You can peek inside here for FREE: http://www.amazon.com/Unmistakably-Black-Sculpture-Paintings-Civilisation-ebook/dp/B00C9RH8P2/

O0 26618
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 08, 2014, 03:15:04 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10696268_10202816408517868_1528176730009737991_n.jpg?oh=680b987d0f94c0a6b503f91031a808eb&oe=54F717B0&__gda__=1422649301_1d651f733ae454f132f31ca2b3d8b307)

O0 26811
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 06, 2014, 01:43:44 AM
The Ancient African Presence in Asia

(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/African-Chinese-later-known-to-us-as-the-Jomon-600x405.jpg)
The photo above has uncertain attributions.  One caption says Tibetan nuns.

Quote
The African-Chinese
At about 35,000 BC a group of these African Chinese later known as to us as the Jomon, took this route and entered Japan, they became the first humans to inhabits the Japanese Islands. Later, another group, known as the Ainu, followed....Today their genes can can still be found in 40% of modern Japanese, as well as Mongolians and Tibetans- past and present Kings and Queens
https://www.tumblr.com/search/jomon

Quote
Chinese Scientist Proves Original Chinese Were Africans


In 2005, a Chinese DNA specialist, Jin Li, leading a team of Chinese and other scientists from the University of Texas in Houston, proved through DNA tests that the first inhabitants of China were indeed Black Africans, who migrated across Asia in a southeasterly direction before heading north into what is now China.

This challenges the long-standing view of Chinese paleontologists, based on fossil evidence, that an East Asian branch of Homo erectus independently evolved into Homo sapiens.

“It is now probably safe to conclude that modern humans originating in Africa constitute the majority of the current gene pool in East Asia,” said Jin.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/05/16/6-arguments-that-prove-the-first-man-was-black/6/

O0 28257
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 08, 2014, 06:06:15 PM
Quote
So there is little doubt that in the early ages of China, a Black presence was prevalent. Now what of African presence in the great civilizations of China? Ivan Van Sertima always preached that “It is one thing to say that you were first and yet another to say what you did.” So what did Africans do in ancient China? What was their status? What positions do we find them in?
Regarding the African presence in early China civilization, three dynasties in particular stand out — the Shang, the Tang and the Yuan.

The Shang Dynasty (1766-1027 BCE), China’s first dynasty, dating from the 18th to the 11th century BCE, apparently had a Black background, so much so that the conquering Zhou described them as having “Black and oily skin.” Bronze vessels, such as Le Tigresse are thus an extremely important component to our case and helps buttress our position.

(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/LA-TIGRESSE-2-225x300.jpg)

Le Tigresse is by far the most spectacular of such vessels. It is a Yu vessel. In addition to Le Tigresse, in the Cernuschi Museum in Paris, there is a similar and near identical artifact in the Sumitomo Collection in Kyoto, Japan.
Le Tigresse is from the late Shang Dynasty period, about 1250 BCE. It is from Hunan Province and measures about 2 feet high. The vessel was intended to hold fermented beverages and is unquestionably the most famous and splendid object in the Cernuschi Museum. The vessel depicts a feline, a tigress with an open mouth, holding a small human in a close embrace with its front paws. For years, I had thought of the small human figure as a child. But on closer inspection, it appears that it may well be an adult. Is it a Diminutive Africoid? Whether adult or child, the features are clearly Africoid and may well be a depiction of one of the Diminutive Africoid-types associated with early China, protected in the powerful embrace of a tigress.
The entire effect is accentuated by the dark green, almost black, brilliance of the vessel, and the calm demeanor shown in the person’s face suggests an ease and confidence in its surroundings. Le Tigresse was acquired by the Cernuschi in 1920.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/06/20/the-black-presence-in-early-china/

O0  28441
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 09, 2014, 12:37:58 PM
As we approach the end of "the year" we should note that the stunning work of the ancient Egyptians (Kemetans) was "ignored" by the Europeans whose calendar "calculations" we now use.  The KEMETANS CALENDAR WAS MORE ACCURATE.

Return with me to the beginning of "time."

Quote
]
The Perfect Egyptian Calendar

The Ancient Egyptian calendar followed the Sothic year. This fact is clearly acknowledged in the Webster dictionary which defines the Sothic year as:

"of having to do with Sirius, the Dog Star"
"Designating or of an ancient Egyptian cycle or period of time based on fixed year"

The Ancient Egyptians knew that the year was slightly over 365¼ days. The earth takes 365.25636 days to complete one revolution around the sun.

It should be noted that the chronology of 3,000 years of Ancient Egyptian history, by modern Egyptologists, was made possible only because the Ancient Egyptians followed the Sothic Year of slightly over 365¼ days, i.e. 365.25636 days.

The Ancient Egyptians were able to construct a monument with perfect precision, to match their perfect calendrical calculations. At the Abu Simbel Temple of Ramses II, is a statue of Ramses II, located among other statues at the back of its sanctuary, 180ft (55m) away from the only opening to the temple. The rays of the sun have illuminated his statue, next to Amen-Ra’s statue, on 22 February of each year for more than 3,200 years.

The difference between 365.25 days and 365.25636 days, over a span of 3200 years, is 20 days. If such a minute difference of 0.00636 days per year was not accounted for, the date of illumination of the statue would have changed from its original date many years ago. The long duration of the shrine illumination is only possible because of the accuracy of the Ancient Egyptian Sothic calendar that followed the heliacal rising of Sabt (Sirius)—the Dog Star.

The practical Ancient Egyptians used a calendar consisting of 12 months, each equal to 30 days.

(http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/graphics/egyptian-months.gif)
The Egyptian months, grouped into the Ancient Egyptian’s three seasons

The adjustments needed to make a complete year, i.e. the difference between 365.25636 days and the 360 (30 x 12) days, were made as follows:

The difference of 5.25 days comes at the end of the Egyptian year, by adding 5 days every year and an additional day every 4 years. The Ancient Egyptian Year currently begins (in 2003) on 11 September. The 5/6 extra days begin on 6 September.

The difference of 0.00636 day (365.25636 – 365¼ days) for each year requires adding another day every (1/0.00636) 157¼ years, which the Egyptians continued to do until our present times. This is accomplished by adding an extra day every 157, 314, 471, and 629 year cycles.

The Egyptians’ advanced knowledge in astronomy, as reflected in their calendar, was acknowledged by the great Strabo (64 BCE–25 CE), who wrote:

"They (the Egyptian priests) revealed to the Greeks the secrets of the full year, whom the latter ignored as with many other things...

When Julius Caesar came to Egypt in 48 BCE, he commissioned the astronomer Sosigenes (from Alexandria) to introduce a calendar into the Roman Empire. Sosigenes' work is best described in an excerpt from The Book of the Master of the Hidden Places by Marsham Adams:

He [Sosigenes] took no heed of standard or measure, of orbit or of sacred interval. But first he cut up the year into twelve unequal and unmeaning bits -- to say he divided it into portions is far too scientific an expression -- which rags bore indeed the name of the insulted moon, but of which that mighty measurer condescended to make no sort of recognition. And then he threw the "odd day" in along with the "odd month"; much as a child, who has broken his toy horse, glues a bit of the tail to the shortest of the legs, and calls aloud on creation to admire his handiwork."

This resulted in the Julian calendar of 365 days a year and 366 days every leap year. The Roman (Julian) calendar was literally tailored to be fit for a King. The first day of the year was the coronation day for the Egyptian King at the end of the annual rejuvenation Jubilee—the Heb-Sed Festivals [see Egyptian Mystics: Seekers of the Way, for more info].
However, because the Julian calendar did not take into account that the year is a bit longer than 365¼ days, the Gregorian calendar was introduced in 1582 CE to correct this error. The Gregorian calendar is still off by about one full day every 3,000 years.

In their attempts to have a different looking calendar than the Egyptian system, both the Julian and the Gregorian calendars fell short of the exact system, as developed by the Egyptians.

The difference between 365.25 days and 365.25636 days, from the time of the adoption of the Julian calendar to our present time, is 13 days. Such a difference explains the 13 day variation in the annual observations of numerous Christian festivals—between the Orthodox and non-Orthodox churches. The reason is that one group followed the accurate Egyptian calendar, while the other group followed the inaccurate Julian calendar.
[/size]
http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egyptian-calendar.html

So, you might want to delay your New Years popping of champagne by an appropriate elapse of time if you wish to be "on time."

O0 28650? and 30550 after FB
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 10, 2014, 09:13:16 PM
We'll fast forward to the time of African explorers who came to the Americas LONG BEFORE Columbus, who - as someone has said - didn't know where he was going, didn't know where he was when he was there and didn't know where he'd been when he returned to Spain.

Dr. Van Sertima's research conclusively shows that Africans sailed across the Atlantic long before Columbus and left monuments, food plants and, among other things, words in Native languages to prove it.
(http://2012.caliwali.com/images/olmecheaduse.jpg)

(http://blackartblog.blackartdepot.com/pics/beforecolumbus.jpg)

Excellent talk by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima for those who harbor doubts.  Listen through about the 3 minute mark wherein he describes the EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY COLUMBUS HIMSELF that he had been preceded to the "Americas" by Black Africans, who left gold, silver and copper alloy arrow heads with the Indigenous people of Hispanola.  Deniers will have a hard time with THAT ONE, I promise you.
http://blackinamerica.com/content/247384/we-came-before-columbus-who-really-discovered-the-americas-by-dr-arthur-lewin

Then there is this:
Evidence Africans discovered America 170 years before Columbus
Quote
...the fact that evidence exists that Africans sailed to the Americas and settled there, almost 200 years before Columbus is widely unheard. The recitation of the Americas discovery often begins in the late 1400's. Yet historians are well aware of the knowledge, sophistication, and wealth of the Malian Empire from 1300's. This information is key since Pathe Diagne and historians before him recognized that Africans were skilled navigators long before Europeans contrary to popular belief.

Pathe Diagne is a Political Scientist, linguist, historian of civilizations, and Professor for Cornell University, Diagne ensures he has proof through maps and documents that a West African mariner prince led an expedition of 2,000 boats to the New World and settled there. In 1992 the excitement around the 500th anniversary of Columbus' first trip, Diagne determined to write a book "Africa Challenge of History: Afrocentrism, Eurocentrism, Semitocentrisme,"about this Pre-Columbian African navigator, Mansa Bakari II.
http://www.examiner.com/article/evidence-africans-discovered-america-170-years-before-columbus

Hopefully, his book will soon be translated to English:
(http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/catalogue/couv/j/9782296118676j.jpg)

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/img_pop.asp?url_img=http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/catalogue/couv/9782296118676r.jpg

O0  30614
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 13, 2014, 10:48:47 PM
We have spoken in this thread about the hundreds year effort by some to deny the African-ness of the creators of the civilization in Kemet - ancient Egypt.

Here is a bit of a diatribe by someone in re: the the new movie: Exodus.

Quote

LESSON 6977: Religious and Historic Propaganda are the most heavily relied upon and most EFFECTIVE forms of ideological indoctrination. It is NOT entertainment that is done in ignorance!

It is DELIBERATE, CONSCIOUS, and PURPOSEFUL.

The genocide and enslavement of a people has been founded upon media propaganda that removes races and ethnic groups from their humanity and their historic contribution to society. The promotion of this propaganda has been essential to the worldwide perpetration and acceptance of global racism and global white supremacy. And, the acceptance of white supremacy as an ideology has been the foundation for the imperial and colonial exploitation of EVERY Indigenous land.

FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR, the utilization of the media to promote this propaganda is the reason why we are psychologically misguided, hurt, lost, angry, depressed, and oppressed now. It is the reason why we lighten skin, wear weaves, and prefer to be validated by White acceptance instead of our own innerstanding of who we really are. It is the reason we prefer European things over African things...it is the reason why we engage in self hate and internalized inferiority complexes.
 
SO NO!!!!!! EXODUS IS NOT JUST A MOVIE..IT IS NOT JUST ENTERTAINMENT.

It is their systematic ideological propaganda that is being used to further promote genocide in America by reinforcing global white supremacy and negating the historic presence of people of color in any significant epoch other than enslavement!

It serves to annihilate the FACT that AFRICAN people founded the great Kemetic civilation and the knowledge that the world has thrived upon and the Catholic church has hidden in the annals of the vatican vault. NO the orginal Kemites were NOT middle eastern looking, and (NOT) white/Europeans---they were African.

But, they MUST begin to dissociate people of color from Kemet because they cannot deny the contribution of Kemet to European knowledge and survival. So, once they finish making the people believe that the Kings and Queens in Kemet were white, they can tell THE TRUTH that the Greeks didn't know ISHT until they studied in the Mystery Schools and then destroyed that fact. They can stamp that they learned from the Kemites...but we will view the Kemites as white... >LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Like Frances Cress Welsing said....A+++++++ Brilliant.

So, if you pay your money to go and see it, consider yourself funding your genocide!

CO-SIGN

O0  30798
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 18, 2014, 02:17:27 AM
THIS IS FOR:

a)  For those who cite "phony" science, BUT ARE TOO COWARDLY TO CHALLENGE ANY SPECIFIC CITATION.
 :vomit:

And
b) For those who assert without ANY EVIDENCE that Ancient Egypt was a "cross roads" (around 5,000BC!!) as a way to deny that Black people were responsible for the development of the civilization in Kemet.

THE BIO-CULTURAL ORIGINS OF EGYPT

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fyKgRoqZcvc/UCQozf7zHXI/AAAAAAAAQtY/tjt-05c_ZhU/s320/Djoser.jpg)
Video of lecture in Cambridge by Dr. Dr. S.O.Y  Keita (HBCU shout out!!) He's an MD and has a DPhil also.

Quote
SOY Keita uses physical anthropology, historical linguistics, archaeology, genetics, and history to show that early "Egyptians" were indeed Africans, and just as African as "sub-Saharan" populations. However, since race is not a scientifically valid concept, he avoids labeling them as "black" but does admit they were dark-skinned and tropical Africans, which mean their limb proportions, skin color, and phenotypes likely resembled those of other tropical Africans. Thus, early predynastic populations as well as dynastic period peoples of Upper Egypt (as well as "Nubia" and Lower Egypt to a certain extent) were dark-skinned peoples with "Negroid" as well as less stereotypically "Negroid" facial features (like modern Nubians, Ethiopians, Beja, Somalis, Fulani, and many other African populations in  "Sub-Sahara."
http://ryfigueroa.blogspot.com/2012/08/ancient-egypt-and-africa-some-thoughts.html

At about the 3:56 mark Prof Keita says:  Absolutely NO evidence of major migration from outside Africa. Not Syria, nor Mesopotamia, nor Europe.
PART 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS3yFCoIdXc  
PART 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaK2CmKyUfk

ARE THE FACTS DETERMINED BY PEOPLE IN POWER?
YES!!!  Because "reality is a social construct."

O0 30992
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 22, 2014, 05:19:48 AM
More for "those claiming without  ANY EVIDENCE that Ancient Egypt was a "cross roads" (around 5,000BC!!) as a way to deny that Black people were responsible for the development of the civilization in Kemet."

Skip to about 2:40 or enjoy the entire Part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhImWZiXG4k

O0 31997
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: EB on December 24, 2014, 12:13:54 PM
.....
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 26, 2014, 03:02:32 AM
The Old Guard (advocates of non-Black origins of the Ancient Egyptian civilization) is still fighting the implications of recent DNA and other science.

But it is getting more and more difficult for them to maintain a position which was in its beginning based on what Molefi Asante calls "The Legacy of Disbelief."  That FALLACIOUS (circular)reasoning goes something like this:

"OK, there may be depictions of Black men (and women) as Pharoahs of Kemet and the ancient Greeks may have referred to Egypt as the "Land of the Blacks," but since Blacks/Africans could not have possibly achieved such heights of civilization before Europe and also been the teachers of the Greeks and provided the foundation for much of Greek civilization (according to the ancient Greeks themselves), then Blacks could not have possibly done it."

Pretty much that sums it up.

Here in the first post (OP) on a discussion board is a tremendous amount of scientific findings substantiating the "Blackness" of the Kemetans.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?116894-The-living-Descendants-of-the-Ancient-Egyptians-Legacy

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dC2-B7sHpsE/UCQx4f4t_4I/AAAAAAAAQv4/y9IWx3K2hSw/s320/battlefield+palette.jpg)
http://ryfigueroa.blogspot.com/2012/08/ancient-egypt-and-africa-some-thoughts.html

And...
In this video, a Cypriot Greek (I assume based on his name) living in London breaks it down nicely in a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLk50p7YdK0

O0 31433
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 01, 2015, 11:57:50 PM
I seek your patience as I tie in 3 links.

Dr. Sharma Keita, in part 4 of his lecture at Cambridge on the Bio-Cultural Origins of the Ancient Egyptians, speaks about an area in southern ("Upper") Egypt.  This is VERY significant for its negatively disastrous implications of the "claims" that very ancient Kemet was a crossroads AS A WAY TO DEFLECT CREDIT FROM AFRICANS for the development of one of the world's first great civilizations - one which PRECEDED BY CENTURIES OR MILLENIA anything even close in scope in Europe.

The whole "crossroads" argument rests on the fallacious assumption that folks would travel from their "home" where they demonstrated NO CAPACITY for the development of great civilization and for which there is NO EVIDENCE of such during that time period and then go someplace else and be major contributors to the development of such a civilization. 

The comparative timelines of the great ancient civilizations (posted much earlier near the beginning of this conversation (See post #4:  http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php?topic=68491.0) demonstrate beyond question that only such a fallacious argument can possibly undergird the crossroads "explanation."

In the early part of Part 4 of Dr. Kieta's presentation, he describes study after study (including his own) which show that genetic and physiological markers of ancient Egyptians "cluster" with those of OTHER AFRICANS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHeZKNmrBVQ

Later on he mentions the Badarian culture, the earliest sign of agriculture in Egypt (4,000 BC), and nearby the mining of precious materials and quarries near and in Wadi Hammamat. 
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Egypt_ancient_detail_wadi_hammamat.png)

Here is some information on this area several centuries AFTER the first evidence of its existence.
http://ancientneareast.tripod.com/Badarian_Culture.html

Here is additional information:
Quote
At the start of his reign, the pharaoh [Rameses IV] initiated a substantial building campaign program on the scale of Ramesses II by doubling the size of the work gangs at Deir el-Medina to a total of 120 men and dispatching numerous expeditions to the stone quarries of Wadi Hammamat and the turquoise mines of the Sinai.[15]
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/M-Ramses_IV.jpg/238px-M-Ramses_IV.jpg)
Rameses IV
This is the 20th Dynasty
The Great Rock stela of Ramesses IV at Wadi Hammamat records that the largest expedition—dated to his Year 3, third month of Shemu day 27—consisted of 8,368 men alone including 5,000 soldiers, 2,000 personnel of the Amun temples, 800 Apiru and 130 stonemasons and quarrymen under the personal command of the High Priest of Amun, Ramessesnakht.[16] The scribes who composed the text noted that this figure excluded 900 men "who are dead and omitted from this list."[5] Consequently, once this omitted figure is added to the tally of 8,368 men who survived the Year 3 quarry expedition, a total of 900 men out of an original expedition of 9,268 men perished during this endeavour for a mortality rate of almost 10%. Some of the stones which were dragged 60 miles to the Nile from Wadi Hammamat weighed 40 tons or more.[17] Other Egyptian quarries including Aswan were located much closer to the Nile which enabled them to use barges to transport stones long distances.[/size]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_IV

This gives an idea of the SCALE of the civilization of Kemet well into its development.

Finally, this link gives some context for the importance of this area and the specialty stone that was quarried there.


It is not until the 30th Dynasty that Greek and Roman inscriptions show up at this "crossroads" off the Red Sea.

Quote
The latest hieroglyphic inscriptions in the Wadi Hammamat date to the reign of Nectanebo II of the Dynasty XXX but there are also many demotic or Greek texts from the Ptolemaic and Roman Periods. The Romans brought renewed interest in the wadi, especially as a trading route, building

(https://egyptsites.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/img_3743.jpg?w=497)
watchtowers and signal posts, forts and a fortified well at Bir Hammamat. In the bekhen-stone quarries, a temple containing several side-chambers has been dated to the time of Tiberius by an inscribed naos. Graffiti in the wadi record activity under Emperors Augustus, Nero, Titus, Domitian, Antoninus and Maximinus.[/size]
http://ancientneareast.tripod.com/Badarian_Culture.html
30th Dynasty is in the Late Period (300s BC)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Gulbenkian_Egypt5.jpg/195px-Gulbenkian_Egypt5.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirtieth_Dynasty_of_Egypt

Others are trying to take credit via a "crossroads" claim when, in fact, the "roads that crossed" had been built hundreds of years (or thousands) before they even arrived.   :nono2:   :nono2:

NOTES TO OLDS..T:   ::)
4,000 BC is 3,700 years BEFORE 300BC. 
And, oh yeah, the 20th Dynasty comes before the 30th Dynasty. 
Finally, Olds..t,  XXX stands for 30, not porn.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 03, 2015, 10:41:07 PM
For those interested in THE SCIENCE that shows that the Ancient Egyptians were Africans/Blacks here is some data to chew on.

Note that Amenhotep and Tutankhamon (Tut) and other ROYAL mummies found in Kemet more closely resemble OTHER AFRICANS than non-Africans:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XdY3E3uOsgw/TvzM6u5OgzI/AAAAAAAAEZ0/_pCkKg3r86M/s1600/dnatribes.jpg)
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf


And to add salt to the wounds of those espousing "crossroads" theories and believing in non-Black creators of the Great Civilization, those mummies are from the New Kingdom period came CENTURIES AND CENTURIES after the beginnings of the Kemetan empire and civilization.

(http://dnatribes.com/images/july-2013-world-regions.jpg)

From the site that produced the above chart:

Quote
Q: What is DNA Tribes® Genetic Ancestry Analysis?

A: The DNA Tribes® Genetic Ancestry Analysis tests autosomal DNA inherited from both your maternal and paternal
ancestors. Your DNA Tribes® test results identify the individual populations and DNA Tribes® World Regions
where your unique DNA profile is most common, including a detailed comparison of your results to genetic data
from African, Asian-Pacific, European, Middle Eastern, Native American, and South Asian populations. For more
information about our reference database containing over 1,200 populations from around the world, click here.

Your DNA matches can include populations in line with your recent family genealogy. However, the genetic history
of world populations began long before genealogical records. For this reason, your DNA matches can also express
genetic traces of more ancient links between world populations through shared origins, migrations, and trade.
These ancient genetic links are explored in various archived Digest articles, available here. Since 2006, DNA
Tribes®, led by Lucas Martin, has performed the most comprehensive analysis of world genetic structure. Our
research and digest articles explore the genetic links among populations around the world, challenging
longstanding scientific and cultural notions on ancestry and identity.

Still waiting on someone to point out what they believe is "fake science."   :tiptoe:
O0  31887
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on January 07, 2015, 06:06:06 PM
Hmmmmmm....

(http://www.secretoftheankh.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Isis_nurseHorus_Danto.jpg)

ANY QUESTIONS?

Here's mine:
DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT ANCIENT PEOPLE DEPICTED THE "SON OF GOD" AS BROWN BY MISTAKE?

This illustration takes the point a bit further:
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTG5YJDkMdzyYioLRhNkuJEzoXM_BPwMlvUOub6wRz8_dMJLIPJ)
O0 32102
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 08, 2015, 11:40:55 PM
Quote
In AD 476 the Roman Empire fell–or rather, its western half did. Its eastern half, which would come to be known as the Byzantine Empire, would endure and often flourish for another eleven centuries. Though its capital would move to Constantinople, its citizens referred to themselves as Roman for the entire duration of the empire’s existence. Indeed, so did its neighbors, allies, and enemies: When the Turkish Sultan Mehmet II conquered Constantinople in 1453, he took the title Caesar of Rome, placing himself in a direct line that led back to Augustus.

For far too many otherwise historically savvy people today, the story of the Byzantine civilization is something of a void. Yet for more than a millennium, Byzantium reigned as the glittering seat of Christian civilization. When Europe fell into the Dark Ages, Byzantium held fast against Muslim expansion, keeping Christianity alive. When literacy all but vanished in the West, Byzantium made primary education available to both sexes. Students debated the merits of Plato and Aristotle and commonly committed the entirety of Homer’s Iliad to memory. Streams of wealth flowed into Constantinople, making possible unprecedented wonders of art and architecture, from fabulous jeweled mosaics and other iconography to the great church known as the Hagia Sophia that was a vision of heaven on earth. The dome of the Great Palace stood nearly two hundred feet high and stretched over four acres, and the city’s population was more than twenty times that of London’s.

From Constantine, who founded his eponymous city in the year 330, to Constantine XI, who valiantly fought the empire’s final battle more than a thousand years later, the emperors who ruled Byzantium enacted a saga of political intrigue and conquest as astonishing as anything in recorded history. Lost to the West is replete with stories of assassination, mass mutilation and execution, sexual scheming, ruthless grasping for power, and clashing armies that soaked battlefields with the blood of slain warriors numbering in the tens of thousands.

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-West-Forgotten-Byzantine-Civilization/dp/0307407969
O0  33,898
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on February 21, 2015, 11:33:21 AM
As I have said before, it is DIFFICULT TO ARGUE WITH STONE...

(https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/72932_3647505764930_1973434024_n.jpg?oh=258c053f395eef81e61e64cd6a1ffbd3&oe=55941613)

I guess those who claim that proof of Black civilization is phony science will be able to show where Europeans or Asians depicted themselves with broad noses and beautiful full lips.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 12, 2015, 04:41:41 PM
Here we seek NOT to have a European validate African civilization, intelligence and pioneering in the foundations of knowledge.

To the contrary, the point of this post is to show that there was a time when the leaders of European thought and culture ACKNOWLEDGED THE OBVIOUS, but which their descendants have spent millenia denying, distorting and claiming for themselves.

Quote
In Book One of his Metaphysics, Aristotle gives a brief history lesson on the evolution of knowledge.

“Hence when all such inventions were already established, the sciences which do not aim at giving pleasure or at the necessities of life were discovered, and first in the places where men first began to have leisure. This is why the mathematical arts were founded in Egypt; for there the priestly caste was allowed to be at leisure.” (Metaphysics, Book I, p. 1553).
https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/basicproblems002/2015/02/01/conditions-for-the-pursuit-of-knowledge/

And another...
Lady Lugard, a trained European historian, wrote in the early 1900's:
Quote


“"When the history of Negroland comes to be written in detail, it may be found that the kingdoms lying towards the eastern end of Sudan (classical home of Ancient Ethiopians) were the home of races who inspired, rather than of races who received, the tradition of civilization associated for us with the name of ancient Egypt. For they cover on either side of the Upper Nile between the latitudes of ten degrees and seventeen degrees, territories in which are found monuments more ancient than the oldest Egyptian monuments. If this should prove to be the case and civilized world be forced to recognize in a black people the fount of its original enlightenment, it may happen that we shall have to revise entirely our view of the black races, and regard those who now exist as the decadent representatives of an almost forgotten era, rather than as the embryonic possibility of an era yet to come."

"The fame of the ancient Ethiopians (ancient Kushites) was widespread in ancient history. Herodotus described them as the most beautiful and long-lived of the human races, and before Herodotus, Homer, in even more flattering language, described them as the most just of men, the favorites of the gods. The annals of all the great early nations of Asia Minor are full of them. The Mosaic records allude to them frequently; but while they are described as the most powerful, the most just, and the most beautiful of the human race, they are constantly spoken of as Black, and there seems to be no other conclusion to be drawn than that at that remote period of history, the leading race of the Western World was a Black race."

Lady Lugard/Flora Shaw Lugard, Asa G. Hilliard, III, A Tropical Dependency: An Outline of the Ancient History of the Western Sudan With an Account of the Modern Settlement of Northern Nigeria, Black Classic Press (1996)”
http://www.nairaland.com/933547/what-lord-lugard-thought-nigerians

O0 36066
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 12, 2015, 11:15:07 PM
Oh!
My bad!!!
Forget everything that was said claiming (some would say based on "fake science") that the Egyptian civilization was a Black one.

Yep, faggetaboutit because THESE NEWLY DISCOVERED TOMBS certainly prove beyond a doubt that it was a white civilization.  You can see how those white people in ancient Kemet depicted themselves.

Clear as day!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/12/ancient-egypt-tombs-luxor_n_6855154.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

O0  36090
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 22, 2015, 07:04:04 PM
R.I.P.

DR. BEN

Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannan


(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p600x600/11083638_10203129336548136_5864036909945874472_n.jpg?oh=8da767f0478171573139f16151da8042&oe=557A8498&__gda__=1437528974_1d9ff55069a7f0bc6a89ef83ad2130d1)

I've been reading "LIES MY TEACHER TOLD ME," which is devoted to correcting the omissions, distortions and outright lies in American History textbooks. I STRONGLY and ENTHUSIASTICALLY RECOMMEND IT TO EVERYONE. You will NOT regret it. You will thank me. I promise.

This video of Dr. Ben is a FINE and PERFECT example of how the actual history of the West has been distorted in order to DENY the African/Black origins of great civilzations and our People's continuing role over the centuries in "western civilization" as well as in our own history.
 
The history taught to us for the most part has been "white washed." It was necessary to do so in order to "justify" the mass kidnapping, attempted deculturalization of African people and terrorization of indigenous and enslaved people for centuires to satisfy the greed and avarice of some. At the same time, the powerful few and the religious, scientific, military, social and other institutions they controlled used the FALSE and self-congratulatory history to persuade others who, though not enslaved, had a deep psychological need to feel superior to Black people. In turn, that translated into their support for a system that victimzed them. Those folks took solace from and pride in - and still do - the fact that there was someone below them in the social and economic pecking order.

Of course, the saddest and most pernicious effect of this sytematic betrayal of the truth of history is the pitiable result that so many African/Black people themselves believe that their ancestors -who were in point of fact the envy of, for example, the Greeks for good reason - never accomplished anything of significance on the world stage!!
THAT is the biggest LIE of all.
TRUTH CRUSHED TO EARTH SHALL RISE AGAIN! And it IS rising!

VIDEO OF DR. BEN
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/09/03/dr-yosef-ben-jochannan-demolish-greek-historic-untruth/

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 31, 2015, 12:28:18 PM
THIS IS FOR:

a)  For those who cite "phony" science, BUT ARE TOO COWARDLY TO CHALLENGE ANY SPECIFIC CITATION.
 :vomit:

And
b) For those who assert without ANY EVIDENCE that Ancient Egypt was a "cross roads" (around 5,000BC!!) as a way to deny that Black people were responsible for the development of the civilization in Kemet.

THE BIO-CULTURAL ORIGINS OF EGYPT

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fyKgRoqZcvc/UCQozf7zHXI/AAAAAAAAQtY/tjt-05c_ZhU/s320/Djoser.jpg)
Video of lecture in Cambridge by Dr. Dr. S.O.Y  Keita (HBCU shout out!!) He's an MD and has a DPhil also.

Quote
SOY Keita uses physical anthropology, historical linguistics, archaeology, genetics, and history to show that early "Egyptians" were indeed Africans, and just as African as "sub-Saharan" populations. However, since race is not a scientifically valid concept, he avoids labeling them as "black" but does admit they were dark-skinned and tropical Africans, which mean their limb proportions, skin color, and phenotypes likely resembled those of other tropical Africans. Thus, early predynastic populations as well as dynastic period peoples of Upper Egypt (as well as "Nubia" and Lower Egypt to a certain extent) were dark-skinned peoples with "Negroid" as well as less stereotypically "Negroid" facial features (like modern Nubians, Ethiopians, Beja, Somalis, Fulani, and many other African populations in  "Sub-Sahara."
http://ryfigueroa.blogspot.com/2012/08/ancient-egypt-and-africa-some-thoughts.html

At about the 3:56 mark Prof Keita says:  Absolutely NO evidence of major migration from outside Africa. Not Syria, nor Mesopotamia, nor Europe.
PART 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS3yFCoIdXc  
PART 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaK2CmKyUfk

ARE THE FACTS DETERMINED BY PEOPLE IN POWER?
YES!!!  Because "reality is a social construct."

O0 30992
This is just one of those challenges to which I referred that a certain person has not responded to, but now   wants others to respond to his challenge.

   :nono2: There will be NO LINE JUMPING!! :nono2:

Don't know about y'all, but I really got a kick out of him saying that he already knew " all this stuff"!!!
HILARIOUS!!
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on March 31, 2015, 12:35:34 PM
R.I.P.

DR. BEN

Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannan


(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p600x600/11083638_10203129336548136_5864036909945874472_n.jpg?oh=8da767f0478171573139f16151da8042&oe=557A8498&__gda__=1437528974_1d9ff55069a7f0bc6a89ef83ad2130d1)

I've been reading "LIES MY TEACHER TOLD ME," which is devoted to correcting the omissions, distortions and outright lies in American History textbooks. I STRONGLY and ENTHUSIASTICALLY RECOMMEND IT TO EVERYONE. You will NOT regret it. You will thank me. I promise.

This video of Dr. Ben is a FINE and PERFECT example of how the actual history of the West has been distorted in order to DENY the African/Black origins of great civilzations and our People's continuing role over the centuries in "western civilization" as well as in our own history.
 
The history taught to us for the most part has been "white washed." It was necessary to do so in order to "justify" the mass kidnapping, attempted deculturalization of African people and terrorization of indigenous and enslaved people for centuires to satisfy the greed and avarice of some. At the same time, the powerful few and the religious, scientific, military, social and other institutions they controlled used the FALSE and self-congratulatory history to persuade others who, though not enslaved, had a deep psychological need to feel superior to Black people. In turn, that translated into their support for a system that victimzed them. Those folks took solace from and pride in - and still do - the fact that there was someone below them in the social and economic pecking order.

Of course, the saddest and most pernicious effect of this sytematic betrayal of the truth of history is the pitiable result that so many African/Black people themselves believe that their ancestors -who were in point of fact the envy of, for example, the Greeks for good reason - never accomplished anything of significance on the world stage!!
THAT is the biggest LIE of all.
TRUTH CRUSHED TO EARTH SHALL RISE AGAIN! And it IS rising!

VIDEO OF DR. BEN
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/09/03/dr-yosef-ben-jochannan-demolish-greek-historic-untruth/

O0

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 31, 2015, 12:39:28 PM
As usual, the laughter of the cowardly ignorant, who can not after all this time produce examples of "fake science" that he claimed were in this thread.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 01, 2015, 12:46:19 AM
This will be the definitive proof that Africans never traveled to Turtle Island (the Americas):

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11044587_800702256664315_2841011046662517178_n.jpg?oh=ae7d2c588679d0f627ad84198aa3be22&oe=55B4FCF3&__gda__=1433660738_2861d5bc73db541b1fdabe3d15221abe)

That's Kemetan Goddess Hathor on the left and, it seems rather obvious, on the right as well.
PURE COINCIDENCE, RIGHT?

But...
Being a bit skeptical / curious, I searched for the art from Ecuador and found that it was part of a Priest Crespi's collection.
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/69951/2008448-20030409_024.jpg)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/69951/2008448-20030409_024.jpg
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008683;p=1

O0   37362
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 02, 2015, 08:52:42 PM
I guess this will be dismissed as "more" fake history and fake science - although NO ONE has cited even one example of anything fake in this thread.

COLUMBUS' OWN WORDS
Quote
According to renowned American historian and linguist Leo Weiner of Harvard University, one of the strongest pieces of evidence to support the fact that Black people sailed to America before Christopher Columbus was a journal entry from Columbus himself. In Weiner’s book, “Africa and the Discovery of America,” he explains that Columbus noted in his journal that the Native Americans confirmed “black skinned people had come from the south-east in boats, trading in gold-tipped spears.”

DRUGS DERIVED FROM "AMERICAN" PLANTS FOUND IN KEMETAN MUMMIES
(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/mummies.jpg)
Quote
American Narcotics Discovered in Egyptian Mummies
The discovery of American narcotics in Egyptian mummies has left some historians amazed. Recently, archaeologists discovered the presence of narcotics only known to be derived from American plants in ancient Egyptian mummies. These substances included South American cocaine from Erythroxylon and nicotine from Nicotiana tabacum. German toxicologist Svetla Balabanova reported the findings, which suggest that such compounds made their way to Africa through trans-Atlantic trade that would predate Columbus’ arrival by thousands of years.

Africans Were Master Shipbuilders
(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Egyptian-Ships.jpg)
Quote
Some people insist that Africans couldn’t have made it to the New World first simply because they didn’t have the skill and resources to sail across the Atlantic. As it turns out, that’s completely false. Historians have discovered evidence that suggests Africans were masters at building ships and that it was actually a part of their tradition. Shipbuilding and sailing are over 20,000 years old in the Sahara, and cave wall paintings of ancient ships were displayed in National Geographic magazine years ago. With those shipbuilding skills and the navigation skills that were noted by other historians of the time, the myth that Africans wouldn’t have been able to sail to the New World becomes officially debunked. As Dr. Julian Whitewright, a maritime archaeologist at the University of Southampton, explained, the voyage from Africa on ancient ships was “quite a plausible undertaking, based on the capabilities of the vessel of the period and historical material stating it took place.”

And this will be an eye opener for many....
A Long History of Trade by Sea

(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/African-lakes.jpg)

Quote
According to Paul Alfred Barton, the author of “A History of the African-Olmecs: Black Civilizations of America from Prehistoric Times to the Present Era,” ancient kingdoms in West Africa have a long history of trade by sail, which made it all the more likely that they eventually expanded their trade to the Americas. While the Sahara is a dry desert today, its past as a lake-filled, wet and fertile place has been well-documented.  African ships often crossed these large lakes to get from place to place and traded with other African civilizations along the way. After expanding their trade to the Americas, they certainly made their mark as things like African native cotton were soon being discovered all across North America.

AND MUCH, MUCH MORE right here:
http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/01/23/10-pieces-of-evidence-that-prove-black-people-sailed-to-the-americas-long-before-columbus/

No matter the facts, the science or the logic of it all, some will be unable to overcome a lifetime of mental conditioning that they are worthless because their ancestors never accomplished anything.  To admit that the basis for what they have accepted as TRUE all of their lives is too threatening to the ego.
  
SADLY,.....
COGNITIVE DISSONANCE is avoided by stubbornly holding onto The Legacy of Disbelief!!!  :crazy:   :crazy:

O0  37475
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 05, 2015, 01:20:38 PM
At about the 14;40 mark on this video, the late and highly respected Dr. Ben explains why the "cross roads" myth mentioned near the beginning of this thread (as a way of denying African/Black genius in the creation of the Nile River civilization - Kemet) is bogus.

They cover a whole lot of ground in this "debate."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOVPcblMyKI

The other gentleman Dr. Simmonds is also very knowledgeable about the ancient history that white/European scholars, religious leaders, institutions and others have FOR CENTURIES hidden or distorted in order to justify greed and inhuman cruelty.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 09, 2015, 06:31:39 PM
Dr. Yosef ben-Jochannan, affectionately known as Dr. Ben, TRULY DESERVES A THREAD OF HIS OWN.  But he was a MASTER TEACHER AND THIS THREAD IS A SMALL PART OF THE LEGACY OF HIS LIFETIME OF WORK.  He was born in Ethiopia a Jew and was raised in the US Virgin Islands.

He passed away at 96 a couple of weeks ago.

In 2000, he donated - a rebel and iconoclast to the end - 35,000 books, ancient scrolls, etc  to the Nation of Islam for safekeeping and, I hope, for research by other scholars.  

(http://40.media.tumblr.com/c8ac622eeb2d7c4e58353c2de79d3cbc/tumblr_nkwuilQrRc1r7l6n1o1_500.jpg)

Dr. Ben was a prodigious scholar and an irritant to ALL those who held on tightly to the Legacy of Disbelief that it was possible that ancient Black Africans could have built the world's first extensive high level civilization with the accoutrements of philosophy, medicine, mathematics, astronomy and so on.  That civilization existed for thousands of years before the Greeks made their way into modern history and it was from AND IN Kemet that the Greeks learned much of what they were later given credit for.  But don't be mad at the ancient Greeks BECAUSE THEY ACKNOWLEDGED THEIR DEBT AND ADMIRATION TO THE BLACKS.

Quote
Yosef ben-Jochannan, one of the last of the Harlem activist-intellectuals of the 20th century—those fiery, independent scholars who taught classical African history and shaped it into a sword against white supremacy—died Thursday after a long illness. He was 96.

The man known as Dr. Ben joined his ancestors the morning of the first day of the annual meeting of the organization he helped found, the Association for the Study of Classical African Civilizations. ASCAC, meeting in Seattle this year, describes itself as a group with a mission to create a “body of knowledge that continuously contributes to the rescue, reconstruction, and restoration of African history and culture.”

“Our people are now safeguarded [in] the after-life by Dr. Ben, Dr. [John Henrik] Clarke, Dr. [Cheikh Anta] Diop, Minister Malcolm X, Elijah [Muhammad], The Honorable Marcus Garvey ... and many more of our greats,” announced Leonard Jeffries in a quickly circulated announcement email.

“Though painful, this is a victory, that we had him for 97 plus [sic] years,” continued Jeffries, retired professor of Africana studies at the City College of New York and one of ben-Jochannan’s unofficial aides.

Dr. Ben became a fabled Harlem luminary over the decades as one of the founding scholars and lecturers in what is now known as Africana studies.

He educated more than two generations of activists while influencing classical African and Judeo-Christian historiographies and Pan-Africanist thought. He explained how the stories and teachings of Judaism and Christianity, for example, come from ancient Egyptian religious systems that existed thousands of years before the birth of Jesus Christ.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41G5KP5WFEL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

He sponsored tours to the center of the ancient black world—Egypt, the Sudan and Ethiopia—for at least three decades. He brought thousands of African Americans to Egypt especially, teaching about the now-Arab nation’s past in ways that reversed the established Western-civilization argument that the land of the pharaohs was a separate, whiter sphere than the rest of the African continent.

And it was that specific teaching—that the ancient Egyptians, proud members of the most advanced civilization in the ancient world (as well as the original Jews), were dark-skinned Africans—that made him so distinctive and beloved in black radical circles and controversial in white communities...

...Dr. Ben’s 49 books, pamphlets and academic papers reflect his decades of teaching, research and activism around New York and the world. His most popular books include African Origins of Major ‘Western Religions’; Black Man of the Nile and His Family; and We, the Black Jews: Witness to the ‘White Jewish Race’ Myth, Volumes I & II.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2015/03/dr_ben_one_of_the_last_people_s_scholars_of_harlem_joins_the_ancestors.html

Dr. Ben was known for his biting and sarcastic commentary and combative style.  Visitors to this thread have seen, for example, his retort to "scholars" who he felt were not his peers.

(https://40.media.tumblr.com/36fab0a2082689f6c6598db1eefc4284/tumblr_njuk55wrZW1u7banvo1_500.jpg)

However, for PURE CONTENT OF INFORMATION, the video cited in the post above is a good start for those interested in learning more.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 10, 2015, 12:12:13 PM
Quote
Yosef A.A. (Alfredo Antonio) Ben-Jochannan (born 1918 in Ethiopia; known simply as "Dr. Ben" to his students and readers) is an American historian specializing in Africa.


He writes in the Introduction to this 1970 book (reprinted in 1991),
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41G5KP5WFEL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
 "(T)he main purpose of this work is to show that there is another phase to the greatness that is still 'MOTHER AFRICA,' the MOTHER OF MANKIND, a sort of 'GARDEN OF EDEN,' also to provide another perspective in Africa's major contribution to world civilization which may well assist in rearranging the present and future tenets of religious thought."

Here are some quotations from the book:

"I shall show that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are as much African as they are Asian in origin, and in no sense what-so-ever European as the title, 'Western Religions' suggests..." (Pg. vi)

"The only reason that the three indigenous African Popes of the Roman Catholic Church have not been examined here ... is because they have done nothing outstanding in the history of Christendom..." (Pg. 137)

"Yet all of these (Ten) 'Commandments' and the lesser ones---which most people do not know exist---are almost exact copies of laws and religious philosophical concepts which the African Jews, as they were by that time, lived under..." (Pg. 147-148)

"The legacy of Voodooism inherited by so-called 'Western Religions' should not surprise anyone more than the legacy Christianity inherited from Judaism, or the legacy Islam inherited from both Judaism and Christianity..." (Pg. 279)

"Moses and Judaism, like Jesus Christ and Christianity (the daughter of Judaism), had their origins in the Nile Valley civilizations. And of course Islam, with her God---Allah ... cannot escape its indigenous African origin..." (Pg. 149)
http://www.lipstickalley.com/showthread.php/849169-The-Late-Great-Dr-Ben-Jochannan-on-Religion-was-never-shy-of-controversy?p=21336393

One has to wonder how it was that the Hebrews claimed that Moses went up on the mountain and came down with a revelation of laws which had already been in place for centuries in the land from which they had just supposedly come.....................

And, again, one can doubt that the majority of such laws existed PRIOR to Moses, but THEY ARE CARVED IN STONE.

(http://theancientsacredmysteries.com/weight_heart.jpg)
The Declaration of Innocence Of The Dead Before the Gods of the Tribunal At The Weighing Of The Heart

http://theancientsacredmysteries.com/42_negative_confessions.htm

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 11, 2015, 02:13:57 PM
Thanks to Dr. Ben, we have - FINALLY - a run down of much of the FAKE HISTORY that many of us were taught.

And there is a HBCU shout out, also - Tuskegee University and the great Booker T. Washington, plus a negative but - as far as I know, true - comment about Howard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRi7IoPjho&spfreload=1

The Greeks
The Father of Medicine
Moses educated as an Egyptian
The Ten Commandments
First Christian martyrs
World's first university
Europe's first university
Hannibal
the 'Phoenician' fallacy and The (Blacka)Moors/Africans
Roman emperors from Africa
Mathematics - 'Pi'
Homer and the concept of god
First Africans enslaved by Europeans were taken from..............Spain
Tarikh and Gibraltar
origin of paper
2250 BC Africans engineered the flow of the Nile
Why do you say "Amen?"
Did the Jews build the pyramids?
Who looks Jewish?
Where was the first Jewish Holocaust? (Hint: It wasn't in Europe.)
In what country did 20 million Black people die and why don't we know about it?
Rameses, Nefatari, Akhenaten, Nefertiti
One God and the Trinity
How did Jesus get blond?  And why?
Why Howard U fired Carter G. Woodson...
Illegitimate children?
etc
etc
etc.

Put on your seatbelts!!!!

Dr. Ben, R.I.P.
May blessings be upon you.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 14, 2015, 11:23:58 AM
MY NEW FAVORITE PLAYER IN THE NBA!!!

(https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/p843x403/10629492_10206103381681693_3273473302360538327_o.jpg)

Quote
Dr Yosef Ben Jochannan is one of the world's greatest black historians that the world has ever seen. Dr Ben passed away last week. David West paid to cover the cost of Dr Ben's Funeral. David West said that he never met Dr Ben but that he was influenced by listening to tapes of Dr Ben. As a way of giving back he paid to cover the cost of Dr Ben's funeral.

Thank you brother David. This goes to show that when you are trying to uplift black people, you never know the kind of positive impact that you are having on people. Dr Ben didn't know that he had a positive affect on that young brother.

Dr Ben, some of the young brothers and sisters got the message.

O0  38095
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: CU1994 on April 14, 2015, 11:44:06 AM
MY NEW FAVORITE PLAYER IN THE NBA!!!

(https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/p843x403/10629492_10206103381681693_3273473302360538327_o.jpg)

Quote
Dr Yosef Ben Jochannan is one of the world's greatest black historians that the world has ever seen. Dr Ben passed away last week. David West paid to cover the cost of Dr Ben's Funeral. David West said that he never met Dr Ben but that he was influenced by listening to tapes of Dr Ben. As a way of giving back he paid to cover the cost of Dr Ben's funeral.

Thank you brother David. This goes to show that when you are trying to uplift black people, you never know the kind of positive impact that you are having on people. Dr Ben didn't know that he had a positive affect on that young brother.

Dr Ben, some of the young brothers and sisters got the message.

O0

I didn't know David West followed Dr. Ben. It's sad the lack of recognition Dr. Ben's death received in Black society. From what I understand he will rest just feet away from our brother Malcolm.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 21, 2015, 12:23:28 PM
Good Info on Dr. Ben:

(http://static.wixstatic.com/media/01c004_79b676d9c22949b980fa1676c4ed427f.jpg_srz_p_600_600_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz)

http://amsterdamnews.wix.com/drben

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 21, 2015, 12:47:47 PM
#2 for Today....

MATHEMATICS IN AFRICA - FROM ANCIENT TIMES

Quote
"Despite this extensive utilization of Mathematics, it is not obvious to many that it is a tool used to teach students that Europeans are culturally superior to Africans. Most books dealing with the history of Mathematics devote only a few pages to ancient Egypt and to northern Africa during the Middle Ages. These books generally ignore the history of Mathematics in Africa south of the Sahara, giving the impression that either this history did not exist or, at least, is not knowable, traceable, or, even more absurd, that there was no mathematics at all in that part of Africa. To Eurocentric scholars, even the Africanity of Egyptian Mathematics is often denied. But contrary to the popular Eurocentric view, one can neither racially nor geographically separate Egyptian civilization from its Black African roots.
"That Africa was in the center of Mathematics for tens of thousands of years is indisputable . From civilizations across the continent emerged contributions which would enrich both ancient and modern understanding of Nature through Mathematics. From the measurement used in the African forest kingdoms to the Mathematics used in building the great stone complexes of Zimbabwe, the efficient irrigation technologies, central administration , the great accuracy of the dimensions of the pyramids. And the random number generation of the binary code that led to the invention of the computer , the achievements of Africans remain a source of fascination."
P.3-4, "General Introduction," AFRICAN MATHEMATICS: FROM BONES TO COMPUTERS by Abdul Karim Bangura (2012)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CZSt5W3lL._SL500_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-big,TopRight,35,-73_OU01_SS100_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/African-Mathematics-From-Bones-Computers/dp/0761853480#

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 05, 2015, 10:48:08 AM
Ah, the glories of Ancient Greece,....Oh!, Uh, I mean the Minoans.

Minoans were the EARLIEST instance of Greek high civilization and guess what.....?

They were Black folks.  At least many of them were.

(https://d39ya49a1fwv14.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Minoan_fresco1-600x412.jpg)

Quote
The Minoans Ancient Greece
Archaeologist Manfred Bietak conducted extensive research on ancient Greek civilizations and their connections to ancient Egypt. Bietak unearthed evidence from artwork as early as 7000 B.C. that depicts the early people inhabiting Greece were of African descent.
The Minoan culture of Ancient Greece reached its peak at about 1600 B.C. They were known for their vibrant cities, opulent palaces and established trade connections. Minoan artwork is recognized as a major era of visual achievement in art history. Pottery, sculptures and frescoes from the Minoan Bronze age grace museum displays all over the world. Palace ruins indicate remnants of paved roads and piped water systems.

FROM:  5 Ancient Black Civilizations That Were Not in Africa
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/04/16/5-ancient-black-civilizations-africa/

O0  39179
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 13, 2015, 05:28:41 PM
Mother’s Day, an ancient Egyptian tradition

(http://www.thecairopost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Isis-and-Horus-620x803.jpg)

From a March 21st article:
Quote
CAIRO: Saturday is Mother’s Day in Egypt and most Arab countries, but the tradition of this holiday has roots in Pharaonic times.

“Cultures around the world celebrated the mother goddess as the representative of nurturing and the giver of life; the goddess Isis was considered the patron saint of women and children throughout the ancient Egyptian history,” archaeologist Sherif el-Sabban told The Cairo Post Friday.

The earliest known celebration of mothers and Goddess Isis in ancient Egypt dates back to the third Dynasty (2650B.C.-2575B.C.) “The Egyptians celebrated their goddess Isis, who was regarded as the Mother of the Pharaohs, each year with a special holiday,” according to Sabban.

Most of the dancers, musicians and singers during the festival were female. The festival was celebrated in different times and venues every tear, said Sabban, adding that the festival is related to an ancient Egyptian myth from which Isis earned her stature as the Mother of the Pharaohs...

...“It is interesting to mention that the scenes of Isis and Horus, in which she cradles and suckles her son, are strikingly similar to that of the Virgin Mary and Jesus,” he added.
http://www.thecairopost.com/news/142641/culture/mothers-day-an-ancient-egyptian-tradition

O0  39769

P.S.  Mothers Day is celebrated in Panama on a Wednesday in November.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 14, 2015, 04:53:53 PM
Quote
"What became of the Black people of Sumer?' the traveler asked the old man, for ancient records show that the people of Sumer were Black. `What happened to them?' `Ah,' the old man sighed. `They lost their history, so they died."

--A Sumer Legend

Another Black civilization outside of Africa.

In ancient times, Black people moved out of Africa to establish several civilizations.  Above we showed the Minoans; now we move east...

(https://d39ya49a1fwv14.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Ancient-South-and-East-India.jpg)

Quote
Indus Kush Civilization
On March 3, 2000, historian Runoko Rashidi gave a lecture in Honolulu, Hawaii, about the presence of Black people in ancient and modern India. He stated that the face of India changed around 2000 B.C. when nomadic people Indo-Europeans or Aryans traveled to the [Indus] Valley and other fertile locations in southern India.
(https://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0ev6r49YU1ql5n5lo1_500.jpg)
Prior to the invasion, Blacks in India built rich and advanced civilizations. Author Wayne Chandler [recounted] his amazing discoveries about Blacks in ancient India in his book “African Presence in Early Asia.” The remarkable cities of Harrappa and Mohenjo-daro are only two of the many cities built by Black people. These cities cover large regions of northern India and modern-day Pakistan.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/04/16/5-ancient-black-civilizations-africa/2/
(I have corrected what I believe are two typos in the Atlanta Black Star article.  They are in brackets.)
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_log8uwiCyF1qlz41bo1_250.jpg)
Dr. Runoko Rashidi

For the scientifically inclined and those SUPPOSEDLY concerned about "fake science", I invite you to read two excerpts VERY closely because:
1) they lay the scientific basis for what is CLEARLY OBVIOUS FROM THE EVIDENCE OF OUR OWN EYES when we see Black people in Asia and in the Pacific Islands
and
2) there is a RACIST and culturally chauvanistic MOTIVATION behind efforts to obfuscate the obvious.

Quote
RECENT SCIENTIFIC STUDIES

In truth we now know, based on recent scientific studies of DNA, that modern humanity originated in Africa, that African people are the world's original people, and that all modern humans can ultimately trace their ancestral roots back to Africa.  Were it not for the primordial migrations of early African people, humanity would have remained physically Africoid, and the rest of the world outside of the African continent absent of human life.  Since the first modern humans in Asia were of African birth, the African presence in Asia can therefore be demonstrated through the history of the Black populations that have inhabited the Asian land mass within the span of modern humanity.

Two recent DNA studies strongly substantiate this.
According to the first report, entitled Chinese Roots lie in Africa:Most of the population of modern China--one fifth of all the people living today--owes its genetic origins to Africa, an international scientific team said today in research that undercuts any theory that modern humans may have originated independently in China...

...An equally important report, entitled "An Ancient Link to Africa Lives on in Bay of Bengal," focuses on the inhabitants of the Andaman Islands (a remote archipelago east of India), and states that they are the direct descendants of the first modern humans to have inhabited Asia. Their physical features  short stature, dark skin, peppercorn hair and large buttocks  are characteristic of African Pygmies. They look like they belong in Africa, but here they are sitting in this island chain in the middle of the Indian Ocean, writes Dr. Peter Underhill of Stanford University, a co-author of the report

AND...

Quote
RACIAL CLASSIFICATION

For well over a century, Western historians, ethnologists, anthropologists, archaeologists and other such specialists have generally and often arbitrarily used such terms as Negroid, Proto-Negroid, Proto-Australoid, Negritic and Negrito in labeling populations in Asia with Africoid phenotypes and African cultural traits and historical traditions.  This has especially been the case with Black populations in South Asia, Southeast Asia and Far East Asia.  In Southwest Asia, on the other hand, terms like Hamites, Eurafricans, Mediterraneans and the Brown Race have commonly been employed in denoting clearly discernible Black populations.  In this work, we have chosen to reject such deliberately confusing nomenclature as obsolete and invalid, unscientific and racially motivated, and it is our intention to comprehensively explore the full impact and extent of the African presence in the human cultures and classical civilizations of early Asia.

Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop, whose work has in so many ways formed a model for much of our research efforts, expressed a keen understanding of the nature and ramifications of the phenomena. In a November 1985 interview with the Journal of African Civilizations, Charles S. Finch pointed out that, There seems to be a growing consensus or idea in the literature of anthropology that there is no such thing as race (6). Continuing, Dr. Finch noted that One consequence of this thinking is the idea that Black people in India, Asia and the Pacific Islands who have almost the identical physical characteristics as Africans--that is, black skins, kinky hair, full lips, broad noses, etc.--are said to be totally unrelated to Africans (7). In his response, Dr. Diop, speaking deliberately and uncompromisingly, pointed out that:

A racial classification is given to a group of individuals who share a certain number of anthropological traits, which is necessary so that they not be confused with others. There are two aspects which must be distinguished, the phenotypical and genotypical. I have frequently elaborated on these two aspects.

If we speak only of the genotype, I can find a black who, at the level of his chromosomes, is closer to a Swede than Peter Botha is. But what counts in reality is the phenotype. It is the physical appearance which counts. This black, even if on the level of his cells he is closer than Peter Botha, when he is in South Africa he will live in Soweto. Throughout history, it has always been the phenotype which has been at issue; we mustn't lose sight of this fact. The phenotype is a reality, physical appearance is a reality.

Now, every time these relationships are not favorable to the Western cultures, an effort is made to undermine the cultural consciousness of Africans by telling them, `We don't even know what a race is.'

It is the phenotype which as given us so much difficulty throughout history, so it is this which must be considered in these relations. It exists, is a reality and cannot be repudiated
http://www.ipoaa.com/african_presence_in_asia.htm

Quote
...in the words of the great scholar Dr. Ivan Van Sertima...: "....The Black role in Asia, as elsewhere in the world, has been submerged and distorted for centuries. But it has not been totally eclipsed and it rises now like a star which was hidden by a cloud but never faded into the oblivion of the night" (10).

O0  39865
For those interested in other references, including pdf docs, do a Google search for:
'african presence in early asia' chandler
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 16, 2015, 10:18:35 PM
Those wallowing in the "legacy of disbelief"* sometimes accuse Afrocentric scholars of writing "feel good" history.  When they do, they ignore TWO critical facts:

1)  The "standard", "mainstream" and "generally accepted" history is VERY OFTEN FALSE, SUGAR COATED and obviously designed by omission and distortion to make Europeans and white Americans FEEL GOOD about themselves.  
For this reason, moral relativity is rolled out to excuse Columbus, Catholic Popes. the Founding Fathers and others who were slavers and human traffickers with blood on their hands.  
The BS moral relativity argument is that they were acting morally FOR THEIR TIME and that it is unfair to judge them by today's standards.  (That EXACT argument has been trotted out on this very Board.)
That argument is clearly, of course, FLAGRANTLY FRAUDULENT, FALSE AND FALLACIOUS because during those centuries there were many Europeans and white Americans (for example, the Quakers and other religious groups) who contemporaneously opposed slavery AND condemned slavers/traffickers as immoral, un-Christian and as sinners.  In addition, it is an argument designed to relieve the consciences of white Americans who idolize those same slavers!!!  In other words, TO MAKE THEM FEEL GOOD.

2) Much of the work of Afrocentric scholars is BASED ON THE RESEARCH AND WRITINGS of Europeans themselves.**   However the Europeans' scholarly work was ignored or suppressed because it undermined the arguments that Blacks/Africans were inferior and had contributed little or nothing to civilization.  Those false claims were used, of course, to justify the inhumane treatment of Africans, to even question our humanity and justify greed and exploitation.

O0  40057

* One aspect of the "legacy of disbelief" is expressed in a bad example of circular thinking as follows:
Africans/Blacks could NOT have achieved these heights of civilization because Africans/Blacks are not capable of achieving these heights of civilization.

When confronted with contrary and indisputable evidence to the contrary, these skeptics experience:
- cognitive dissonance and emotional discomfort to the extent that their self-concept and world view is rooted in the false history they were taught
- intellectual wind shear because they must EITHER admit what they've believed for a lifetime is incorrect OR they must deny the evidence of their own eyes.

** An egregious example of this were the cries of anti-Semitism (an inaccurate and misleading term in itself) when the Nation of Islam published "The Secret Relationship of Blacks and Jews."  What was ignored was that the entirety (if I am not mistaken) of the book were articles written by Jewish scholars about the involvement of Jews in the slave trade and compiled for the book itself.
Quote
In its 334 pages The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews,
Volume One, conclusively proved that Jews were in fact at the very center of
the trans-Atlantic slave trade as merchants, financiers, shippers, and insurers and
among the leading international marketers of the products of African slave labor.
This information was compiled from texts written by prominent Jewish scholars
and historians.
http://noirg.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/TSR.HighlightsKeyPoints1.pdf
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 17, 2015, 10:48:46 PM
The Eurocentric chauvanism that saturates much scholarship either ignores or dismisses evidence that long before the white explorers that they taught us to admire, Africans had traveled to distant places on the planet.

Ask them to explain how evidence - anthropological, cultural, linguistic, botanical, anatomical, metallurgical, etc and now the big one, DNA - of Africans living in Asia, the Pacific Islands, South and Central American for centuries or even millennia BEFORE Europeans made their way there and you get a blank stare from many.

Check out the "Little Black People" in Taiwan, Republic of China.  It's a bittersweet story.

In honor of the Little Black People
The Saisiyat tribe of Hsinchu and Miaoli will perform a solemn rite this weekend to commemorate a race of people that they exterminated

Quote
For the past 100 years or so, the Saisiyat tribe (賽夏族) has performed the songs and rites of the festival to bring good harvests, ward off bad luck and keep alive the spirit of a race of people who are said to have preceded all others in Taiwan.

In fact, the short, black men the festival celebrates are one of the most ancient types of modern humans on this planet and their kin still survive in Asia today. They are said to be diminutive Africoids and are variously called Pygmies, Negritos and Aeta. They are found in the Philippines, northern Malaysia, Thailand, Sumatra in Indonesia and other places.
Chinese historians called them "black dwarfs" in the Three Kingdoms period (AD 220 to AD 280) and they were still to be found in China during the Qing dynasty (1644 to 1911). In Taiwan they were called the "Little Black People" and, apart from being diminutive, they were also said to be broad-nosed and dark-skinned with curly hair.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2004/11/27/2003212815

NOTE THAT, DESPITE THE DESCRIPTION, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION OF THE ORIGIN OF THESE PEOPLE.  AND NOTE THAT NO MENTION IS MADE THAT SIMILAR PEOPLE "ARE FOUND"* IN AFRICA.

Perhaps they came from the Moon or Mars.   :crazy:
The closest they could allow themselves was to say they were "Africoid."

May their souls rest in peace and may other Africans/Blacks (like us) learn the lesson that sometimes we are, as Dr. John Henrik Clarke, taught:  Too hospitable for our own good.  That strength was turned into a weakness by others whose capacity for gratitude is severely challenged - at least when it comes to us.  See another excerpt from the article:

Quote
The story goes that the Little Black People taught the Saisiyat to farm by providing seeds and they used to party together. But one day, the Little Black People sexually harassed some Aboriginal women. So, the Saisiyat took revenge and killed them off by cutting a bridge over which they were all crossing. Just two Little Black People survived. Before departing eastward, they taught the Saisiyat about their culture and passed down some of their songs, saying if they did not remember their people they would be cursed and their crops would fail.

Sounds to me a bit too much like the "blame the Black guy" syndrome and consequent lynchings that we all are way too familiar with.
O0

* Note also that "we" ARE FOUND.  We don't live or reside like people do; we are OBJECTS to be found.  Are Germans "found" in Argentina?!?  Whew!!!

19 MAY 40288
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 26, 2015, 03:06:02 AM
Follow up to my post on page 28 of this thread.

The relevant excerpt:

Quote
2) Much of the work of Afrocentric scholars is BASED ON THE RESEARCH AND WRITINGS of Europeans themselves.**    However the Europeans' scholarly work was ignored or suppressed because it undermined the arguments that Blacks/Africans were inferior and had contributed little or nothing to civilization.  Those false claims were used, of course, to justify the inhumane treatment of Africans, to even question our humanity and justify greed and exploitation.

O0

** An egregious example of this were the cries of anti-Semitism (an inaccurate and misleading term in itself) when the Nation of Islam published "The Secret Relationship of Blacks and Jews."  What was ignored was that the entirety (if I am not mistaken) of the book were articles written by Jewish scholars about the involvement of Jews in the slave trade and compiled for the book itself.

Quote
In its 334 pages The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews,
Volume One, conclusively proved that Jews were in fact at the very center of
the trans-Atlantic slave trade as merchants, financiers, shippers, and insurers and
among the leading international marketers of the products of African slave labor.
This information was compiled from texts written by prominent Jewish scholars
and historians.
http://noirg.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/TSR.HighlightsKeyPoints1.pdf

In the past I have mentioned Dr. Tony Martin on this Board.  He was viciously attacked for using "The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews" in his classroom.

Here he details a few of the historical facts, but his presentation is focused on the kind of tactics used by those who attacked him, but who for the most part did not address THE ACTUAL TRUTH OF WHAT HE WAS TEACHING.

You will recognize some of the tactics employed by those who do not want to or cannot deal with the facts.

Here's the video of his speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu0vQrZbhQo
And here is the transcript of that speech:
http://www.ihr.org/other/TonyMartin2002.html

Dr. Tony Martin, R.I.P

O0  40647
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 27, 2015, 10:16:26 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen; Brothers and Sisters!

I am pleased and proud to introduce to some and present to others the inimitable Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannan, popularly known and affectionately called, "DR. BEN."

As you know this Master Teacher passed away recently. For longer than many on this board have been breathing air, he has taught generations of scholars, teachers and students the intricate details of the history of Kemet - Ancient Egypt.

Another icon, the late and great Gil Noble, the long-time host of the "Tell It Like It Is" radio and TV shows in NYC went with Dr. Ben to modern day Egypt.   This gives YOU and ME the singular privilege to learn from a Master about the history, civilization, religious concepts, technology, and today's relevance of our Ancestors' achievements in northeast Africa and the precedents that they set for and the MAJOR influence they had on the Greeks, Romans and others.

Again, THIS IS A KEEPER, y'all!!!

Examining Egypt/Kemet With Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEQE30xfm0k
I believe this was filmed in 1994.

What an amazing memory Dr. Ben had!!!!!

I sure would love to read your comments after you've seen some or all of this video.

DR. BEN, ASANTE SANA and RIP!!!
O0  40777
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 02, 2015, 05:32:02 PM
Who built the pyramids?

(http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/646x430/g_j/giza_cnt_30mar10_iStock_b.jpg)

Many answers to this question derive from "The Legacy of Disbelief", which maintains that it couldn't have been African / Black people because they / we didn't have the intellectual capacity, organizational skills and technological capacity to do it.  But it's a circular argument because there is NO EVIDENCE to show the lack thereof.  Only the "belief" which arose despite the ancient Greeks telling ANYONE who would listen that they learned from the Africans, whom they often called the Ethiopians.

"The Legacy of Disbelief" manifests itself in the currently popular idea that ALIENS must have built the pyramids!!  I guess they carved pictures of themselves inside the pyramids and on the temple walls at Luxor, also!!!   :lmao:

Whether it emanates from "The Legacy of Disbelief" OR just results from a group claiming others' works as their own, there is a another widely believed answer: the Jews, as slaves, built the pyramids.  Now that is a whopper!!!!  Think about the fact that the pyramids were built over a span of several hundred years.

Here is one response to the claim that Jewish slaves built the pyramids.

Quote
Now, there are more than just a single question we're trying to answer here. Were the Jews slaves in ancient Egypt? Were the pyramids built by these slaves? Did the Exodus happen as is commonly believed?

The biggest and most obvious evidence — the pyramids themselves — are an easy starting point. Their age is well established. The bulk of the Giza Necropolis, consisting of such famous landmarks as the Great Pyramid of Cheops and the Sphinx, are among Egypt's oldest large pyramids and were completed around 2540 BCE. Most of Egypt's large pyramids were built over a 900 year period from about 2650 BCE to about 1750 BCE.

We also know quite a lot about the labor force that built the pyramids. The best estimates are that 10,000 men spent 30 years building the Great Pyramid. They lived in good housing at the foot of the pyramid, and when they died, they received honored burials in stone tombs near the pyramid in thanks for their contribution. This information is relatively new, as the first of these worker tombs was only discovered in 1990. They ate well and received the best medical care. And, also unlike slaves, they were well paid. The pyramid builders were recruited from poor communities and worked shifts of three months (including farmers who worked during the months when the Nile flooded their farms), distributing the pharaoh's wealth out to where it was needed most. Each day, 21 cattle and 23 sheep were slaughtered to feed the workers, enough for each man to eat meat at least weekly. Virtually every fact about the workers that archaeology has shown us rules out the use of slave labor on the pyramids.

It wasn't until almost 2,000 years after the Great Pyramid received its capstone that the earliest known record shows evidence of Jews in Egypt, and they were neither Hebrews nor Israelites. They were a garrison of soldiers from the Persian Empire, stationed on Elephantine, an island in the Nile, beginning in about 650 BCE. They fought alongside the Pharaoh's soldiers in the Nubian campaign, and later became the principal trade portal between Egypt and Nubia. Their history is known from the Elephantine Papyri discovered in 1903, which are in Aramaic, not Hebrew; and their religious beliefs appear to have been a mixture of Judaism and pagan polytheism. Archival records recovered include proof that they observed Shabbat and Passover, and also records of interfaith marriages. In perhaps the strangest reversal from pop pseudohistory, the papyri include evidence that at least some of the Jewish settlers at Elephantine owned Egyptian slaves.

Other documentation also identifies the Elephantine garrison as the earliest immigration of Jews into Egypt. The Letter of Aristeas, written in Greece in the second century BCE, records that Jews had been sent into Egypt to assist Pharaoh Psammetichus I in his campaign against the Nubians. Psammetichus I ruled Egypt from 664 to 610 BCE, which perfectly matches the archaeological dating of the Elephantine garrison in 650.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4191

I am not vouching for every fact in this excerpt because, for example, I understand that there IS some controversy about the actual age of some of the pyramids and certainly of the sphinx.  But given the basic outline of information provided, there is substantial reason to doubt the claims of those who say Jews built the pyramids.

Perhaps others can share other sources on this particular topic.

O0  41079
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 24, 2015, 12:35:44 AM
Thanks to SoFloRattler for this great aerial photo in his sig:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img901/7501/CyeQxO.jpg)

No reference link for this (only from memory), but doubters can look it up.

Some skeptics of the astronomical knowledge and engineering skills of the Africans that built the Pyramids before - as Dr. John Henrik Clarke liked to say - a European had a house with a window in it, at one time "criticized" the fact that the alignment of the Pyramids was off by a couple of degrees to true North (I think it was).

Others commented on how the smaller Pyramid was not in line with the larger two.

Someone then noted that the positions of the three Pyramids were an exact replication of the position of three important stars as seen from Ancient Kemet!!

As more knowledge was acquired in modern times, it was discovered that CONTINENTAL DRIFT - the movement of Africa itself - was responsible for the couple of discrepant degrees in the alignment of the Pyramids!!!

Africans are an awesome People!!!!
O0 42287
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 16, 2015, 02:21:55 PM
This info is from a different time period from that on which this thread usually focuses, but provides several examples in a brief clip of advanced civilizations in Africa.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p011fmhk

(https://afuaonlove.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/higgins-bond_kankanmussa.jpg?w=300&h=151)
In the 1300's C.E. (Common Era):
Mansa Musa, ruler of the Empire of Mali, gave away so much GOLD that he caused rampant inflation in Cairo which took ten years to bring back into balance.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/MALI_empire_map.PNG/1024px-MALI_empire_map.PNG)

Mansa Musa stands as the richest man OF ALL HUMAN HISTORY.

O0  43855
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on July 16, 2015, 02:30:45 PM
This info is from a different time period from that on which this thread usually focuses, but provides several examples in a brief clip of advanced civilizations in Africa.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p011fmhk

(https://afuaonlove.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/higgins-bond_kankanmussa.jpg?w=300&h=151)
In the 1300's C.E. (Common Era):
Mansa Musa, ruler of the Empire of Mali, gave away so much GOLD that he caused rampant inflation in Cairo which took ten years to bring back into balance.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/MALI_empire_map.PNG/1024px-MALI_empire_map.PNG)

Mansa Musa stands as the richest man OF ALL HUMAN HISTORY.

O0  43855


How did he get so wealthy? (YOU KNOW K----) Did he have slaves?  You're gonna to celebrate him? He may have owned your great, great,great grandmother.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 16, 2015, 03:13:26 PM
It's obvious that you did not read/watch or comprehend.

And I see you have relapsed into name calling.  We understand it is because you cannot put together logic and facts to advance your arguments.  You're so sad!!!!

You're a Christian, aren't you?

Slavery advocates in the US pointed out to Abolitionists that Jesus never said a critical word about slavery.  You're upholding all of that.  So, are you being hypocritical?

All of those who know ANYthing about slavery in West Africa know that there was no resemblance to the chattel slavery of the western hemisphere under European domination wherein the actual humanity of slaves was questioned or denied.

Note that I did not say he was a GREAT man.  I said he was the world's wealthiest man.

Nice try.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: oldsport on July 16, 2015, 03:21:38 PM
It's obvious that you did not read/watch or comprehend.

And I see you have relapsed into name calling.  We understand it is because you cannot put together logic and facts to advance your arguments.  You're so sad!!!!

You're a Christian, aren't you?

Slavery advocates in the US pointed out to Abolitionists that Jesus never said a critical word about slavery.  You're upholding all of that.  So, are you being hypocritical?

All of those who know ANYthing about slavery in West Africa know that there was no resemblance to the chattel slavery of the western hemisphere under European domination wherein the actual humanity of slaves was questioned or denied.

Note that I did not say he was a GREAT man.  I said he was the world's wealthiest man.

Nice try.

O0

Hey A--HOLE, slavery is slavery. Don't try to color - YOU DYAM FOOL. I've been to West Africa. You IDIOT. Would you want to be a slave in West Africa?
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 16, 2015, 11:52:02 PM
Take your meds, Olds..t.

Your allergy to FACTS is once again acting up.  By now you should know to avoid facts (which are always in my posts) because they give you the runs and then you share on this Board instead of cleaning yourself up.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 26, 2015, 03:56:33 PM
The denial (D'Nile) continues into the modern day.  

Here's video of several of Africa's cities:  https://youtu.be/Cd9MAC4w4xg
http://thisalsoisafrica.com/

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ups2ZdvLprY/Ty5dcDykSSI/AAAAAAAACag/_PCyu06BD8A/s1600/%2528Ethiopia%2529+-+Addis+Ababa+-+The+Highest+capital+of+Africa+2.jpg)
ADDIS ABABA, ETHIOPIA

(http://www.midnimo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Nairobi-skyscrapers1.jpg)
NAIROBI, KENYA

(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpa1/t51.2885-15/s320x320/e15/11142362_1436541746645331_837682341_n.jpg)
GHANA

(http://thisalsoisafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/maputo-310x150.jpg)
MAPUTO, MOZAMBIQUE

(http://thisalsoisafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/gaborone2-310x150.jpg)
GABARONE, BOTSWANA

As contrasted to Ancient Kemet, many of these buildings are built with others' funds and for others' purposes, but most folks - because they only see famine, war, etc. in the media - may have little if any idea of what modern Africa looks like.
Think about it.....

O0 46565
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 07, 2015, 03:45:58 PM
Unlike many European scholars and layman over the centuries, it is not necessary for us/me to hide, minimize, ignore or claim for our own the achievements of other peoples in order to be proud of our own Ancestors' monumental (literally) achievements.

Today there is a report about a huge find near Stonehenge.  They're calling it Superhenge because of its vast size.  It's dated at approx 4,500 years ago.
THAT'S GREAT!  

No one should minimize or dismiss - I don't - the amazing organization and technology needed to excavate, move and place HUGE rough hewn stones into a circular formation and then, for reasons unknown and perhaps unknowable, going back to lay those stones on their sides and cover them up.  That's what the new discovery shows.

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/9/1410289012084/New-Stonehenge-discovery-014.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=5c84ddc952be84e27b35503f22ccfb50)

Quote
Stonehenge stood at the heart of a sprawling landscape of chapels, burial mounds, massive pits and ritual shrines, according to an unprecedented survey of the ancient grounds.

Researchers uncovered 17 new chapels and hundreds of archaeological features around the neolithic standing stones on Salisbury Plain, Wiltshire, including forms of monuments that have never been seen before.

Brought together for the first time in a digital map of the historic site, the discoveries transform how archaeologists view a landscape that was reshaped by generations for hundreds of years after the first stones were erected around 3100BC.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/10/stonehenge-teeming-chapels-shrines-archaeology-research

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

At around the same time, long ago - 2500BCE - Africans in Kemet had already built this:

(http://www.helloraipur.poorabtimes.com/headerimg/big/17.jpg)

Ad before that, this:
(http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/time/explore/images/pyste_sm.jpg)

And before that, this:  
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnFmX3YGlI4ncDCM-bVUtHxJJzDsc7UXYHtvTjtfThVwiT2c3C)
The Sphinx: estimates of its origin range from 4500 to 12,000 BCE

TIMELINE
http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/time/explore/main.html

Big difference in the degree of organization and the needed development of technology between the two.

O0 47247
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 29, 2015, 02:13:13 AM
VIDEO!!!

Dr. Ben (the real Dr. Ben) breaks down why and how history is so important by talking about what must be done....(as usual, put on your seatbelts)

https://www.facebook.com/tzaahir/videos/10207618396288358/

First time I've seen an animation of him!

THANKS, Baxepra!!!

O0   48347
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 05, 2015, 10:33:05 PM
This was posted by one of my younger cousins from California.  His words in blue.

Quote
Our Ancestors were real people who lived, had families, have descendants, tombs, their own language and civilizations, and therefore, plenty of museum representation. Meet one of your queens...

(http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/courses/introtoegypt09/files/10447147.jpg)
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/courses/introtoegypt09/9005.html

Sitamun Mutemhat Karomama Merimut!!!

(http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/185736708-karomama-divine-worshipper-of-amun-statue-in-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=4RcC2xLs0DO6L5cTe%2buGekxBlZCWYKuffvNhwGw0ox3c%2fwqKEWNVyHfcvQguhIicGal2NhUsCCKbKtoue5SBbA%3d%3d)

Statue of Karomama, the Divine Adoratrice of Amun.
Karomama is depicted in a walking pose, shaking sistrums (now missing). She was a Divine Adoratrice, a virgin and earthly spouse of the god Amun, who was worshiped at Karnak. She held the status of a queen, and is portrayed in a robe encircled by vulture wings.
22 dynasty, ancient Egypt.
Louvre Museum.[/size]

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Karomama_Louvre_05.JPG/800px-Karomama_Louvre_05.JPG)

Yeah, CUZ, our Ancestors did not play!!!!!

O0 48525
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 11, 2015, 07:18:18 PM
.... the original intellectual and moral achievements which constitute the foundations of modern civilization."

I offer this in this forum because of the repeated inferences by one poster that African/Black people are inferior (not to mention his avowed "not so much" belief in white so-called supremacy).....

O0

I really laugh at these type discussions. Nothing here explains the decline of this civilization and the continued advancement of Western civilization.  The operative question is why didn't Egypt and so-called other African nation (so-called) civilizations advance parallel to Western civilization since Egypt and other African nations had foundations of modern civilization?

You laugh, Oldsport, out of supreme and in my experience UNparalleled IGNORANCE.  

Your misconceptions of history are legion.  Your question demonstrates it again.

First off though - to clear the air.  

This thread is not designed to explain the decline of ancient African civilizations.  Hell!!  You don't even believe that Africans HAD civilizations.  But, in desperation and because EVEN you won't say that, you skip all over that to make that stupid critique of the thread.  And you do it - ONCE AGAIN - ONLY AFTER your name is mentioned in the thread.  STOP "GOOGLING" YOURSELF, clown!!!

Civilizations and countries/nation states - SURPRISE TO YOU, ignoramus - rise and fall!!!   That is the ebb and flow of history.  It has always been thus.

Ever heard of these:
Vikings?
Romans?
Franks?
Ming Dynastry?
British Empire?
Mongols?
Aztecs?
Incas?

Each of them had internal and external factors which led to their decline, downfall or domination by others.

However, Laughing Boy, that does NOTHING to diminish the accomplishments that ancient peoples achieved.  Because of your "legacy of disbelief" that Black people are capable of anything, you find it difficult to accept or digest that the POINT OF THIS THREAD IS THAT:
FAR AHEAD OF WHITE FOLKS, IT WAS BLACK/AFRICAN PEOPLE WHO DEVELOPED HIGH FORMS OF CIVILIZATION, ARCHITECTURE, RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS, etc., etc., etc.

DEAL WITH THAT before you go off on a tangent about decline.

You won't and you can't, but I challenge you anyway.


So, keep on laughing and making a fool of yourself.
O0  17171


When I came across this (below), I recalled the exchange above:

(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12141677_1119655228062565_7194053559080768111_n.jpg?oh=9b9068a2c1357a985b3b13adb8e31f4f&oe=56C70607)

And of course, he had NO REPLY to my challenge.

It will be VERY difficult for anyone to fight a "battle" (or even realize there IS a battle OR what the battle is about) when the "enemy" has outposts in their mind.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 14, 2015, 11:26:06 AM
Please respond to the poll in this thread.

Thank you.

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 16, 2015, 11:52:01 PM
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12075055_10207655161038659_2919539643225997736_n.jpg?oh=c61e53707753b1267f1288762ddd78da&oe=56CBBFD3)

Quote
Tiye
Tiye was the daughter of Yuya and Tjuyu. She became the Great Royal Wife of the Egyptian pharaoh Amenhotep III.
She was the mother of Akhenaten and grandmother of Tutankhamun. Wikipedia
Born: 1398 BC, Akhmim, Egypt
Died: 1338 BC
Spouse: Amenhotep III
Children: Akhenaten, The Younger Lady, Sitamun, Beketaten, Thutmose, Henuttaneb, Nebetah, Iset
Parents: Yuya, Tjuyu
Grandchildren: Tutankhamun, Ankhesenamun, Smenkhkare


They said:  BORN IN NUBIA!!!!  NUBIA!!!!

O0  48885
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on November 26, 2015, 10:21:51 PM
Here's a reference map of Ancient Kemet showing locations in three languages.

(http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Maps/Egypt_map_big.jpg)
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Maps/Egypt_map_big.htm

Please take a moment to respond to the POLL at the top of this page.
O0  49731
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 05, 2015, 11:13:25 PM
One of the attacks that used to be made against Africans was that they/we practiced cannibalism.

Marcus Garvey pointed out back in the 1930's that cannibalism was a universal practice and that the history of it was more prevalent in Europe and longer lasting.  Personally, I have not seen corroboration of his claim.

Here is, however, some fairly uncontroversial evidence for cannibalism in Germany and in Britain going back to "prehistoric" times.

Ancient site reveals signs of mass cannibalism
Germany

Quote
Archaeologists have found evidence of mass cannibalism at a 7,000-year-old human burial site in south-west Germany, the journal Antiquity reports.

The authors say their findings provide rare evidence of cannibalism in Europe's early Neolithic period.
Up to 500 human remains unearthed near the village of Herxheim may have been cannibalised.
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46854000/jpg/_46854948_masscannibalism.jpg)
The "intentionally mutilated" remains included children and even unborn babies, the researchers say...

...Team leader Bruno Boulestin, from the University of Bordeaux in France, told BBC News that he and his colleagues had found evidence the human bones were deliberately cut and broken - an indication of cannibalism.

"We see patterns on the bones of animals indicating that they have been spit-roasted," he said. "We have seen some of these same patterns on the human bones [at this site]."
But Dr Boulestin stressed it was difficult to prove that these bones had been deliberately cooked.
Some scientists have rejected the cannibalism theory, suggesting that the removal of flesh could have been part of a burial ritual.

But Dr Boulestin said the human remains had been "intentionally mutilated" and that there was evidence many of them had been chewed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8394802.stm


Cannibal theory over early Briton

Quote
A fragment of bone from a Devon cave may hint at cannibalism by early Britons, according to archaeologists.
Researchers say the 9,000-year-old bone carries cut marks made by a stone tool which are consistent with the act of dismemberment.
Scientists believe the bone is evidence that Britons from the Mesolithic period engaged in complex burial rituals and possibly cannibalism.
Human remains from this period are extremely rare in Britain...

..."They're just a series of fine parallel cuts as though you're trying to dismember, to remove the lower arm."
"The person must have been already dead at this time. So you're looking at post-mortem dismemberment for some reason."
Dr Schulting says the marks could be evidence of a complex mortuary treatment. Or, he says, "the other possibility is that this is done for quite another reason, the consumption of the individual as part of cannibalism."...

...Dr Silvia Bello, a palaeontologist at London's Natural History Museum, told BBC News: "Cannibalism amongst [Homo] sapiens and pre-sapiens humans has always been a taboo topic. Whilst the presence of cut marks on faunal remains is usually referred to as a direct manifestation of butchery activities, cut marks on human remains are not usually considered to be un-equivocal evidence of cannibalism.
"The presence of butchery cut marks on human remains is generally interpreted as ritual practice, such as de-fleshing, scalping, dismembering, without consumption of the body. However, although difficult to prove, cannibalistic practices cannot be completely dismissed."...

Cave record of Britain's pioneers

Quote
In the 1980s, excavations uncovered accumulations of human and animal bones and artefacts that appeared to be much older even than Cheddar Man. The discoveries caused a sensation when it was realised many human remains bore a pattern of cut marks compatible with cannibalism...

..."We had these apparently cannibalised human bones and artefacts and animal remains with signs of butchery. They all looked like they should be part of a consistent population pattern," said Chris Stringer, head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum...

..."There are large numbers of cut marks on them and they are almost entirely smashed. And that smashing looks remarkably like the patterns of breakage you get on the animal bones in the cave - which we have assumed to be for bone marrow extraction," co-author Roger Jacobi told BBC News.

But Dr Jacobi said this was not the only possible interpretation: "Another might be that the people were dying away from the cave," he posited.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8151524.stm

Wonder if Africans under similar circumstances would get the benefit of that doubt.
O0 7796

More cannibalism.
Much more recently than above examples.
Jamestown, Virginia


Quote
Archaeologists have discovered the first physical evidence of cannibalism by desperate English colonists driven by hunger during the Starving Time of 1609-1610 at Jamestown, Virginia —the first permanent English settlement in the New World.

There are five historical accounts written by or about Jamestown colonists that reference cannibalism, but this is the first time it’s been proven, said William Kelso, director of archeology at Historic Jamestowne.

“This is a very rare find,” said James Horn, vice president of research for the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. “It is the only artifactual evidence of cannibalism by Europeans at any European colony—Spanish, French, English, or Dutch—throughout the colonial period from about 1500 to 1800.”

(http://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/photos/000/668/66888.ngsversion.1422283061236.adapt.676.1.jpg)
A forensic facial reconstruction of the 14-year-old victim of cannibalism at Jamestown during the winter of 1609.

Portions of the butchered skull and shinbone of a 14-year-old girl from England, dubbed “Jane” by researchers, were unearthed by Jamestown archaeologists last year. They found the remains about 2.5 feet (0.8 meters) down in a 17th century trash deposit in the cellar of a building built in 1608 inside the James Fort site.
[/size]
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130501-jamestown-cannibalism-archeology-science/

Betcha none of those five sources were included in what you studied in school about Jamestown!

O0  49963

P.S. Please be so kind as to respond to the poll at the top of the page.  Muchas Gracias!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: soflorattler on December 06, 2015, 07:31:35 AM
B66 truth be told, "most" of my in depth knowledge of African/African American history was done post grad at Cal. St. Long Beach thanks too Dr. Manuela Karanga and the speakers he brought in for seminars.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: soflorattler on December 06, 2015, 07:39:55 AM
Original skin tone of Egyptians

(http://imageshack.com/a/img905/9324/jYJb2T.jpg)

Skin tone after European occupation over the centuries

(http://imageshack.com/a/img633/2802/FDnUJy.png)

The same goes for all across north African countries.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 06, 2015, 07:15:10 PM
Original skin tone of Egyptians

(http://imageshack.com/a/img905/9324/jYJb2T.jpg)

Skin tone after European occupation over the centuries

(http://imageshack.com/a/img633/2802/FDnUJy.png)

The same goes for all across north African countries.

TEACH!!!!!

That takes us back to Neymar's early (maybe first) post in this thread wherein he posted pictures of current day Egyptians to say that 6,000 years ago, people in Kemet looked like them.
O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 12, 2015, 01:55:33 AM
A few days ago, this thread crossed the 50,000 mark, meaning that someone (not unique hits) opened this thread to read it or comment on it fifty thousand times since it was started.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

The information that has been shared in this thread is both old and new, but the interest of Africans in America in this subject goes way back.

Here is a note from the  Association for the Study of Classical African Civilization's (ASCAC)

Quote
David Walkers in 1829 when he taught: 'The Egyptians were Africans ... such as we are ... some of them yellow and others dark ... about the same as you see the coloured people of the United States at the present day.' Subsequently, he instructed all Africans to 'take a retrospective view of the arts and sciences -- the wise legislators -- the Pyramids and other magnificent buildings -- the turning of the channel of the river Nile, by the sons of Africa ... among whom learning originated and was carried thence into Greece.' David Walker, thus, emphasized the necessity of grounding the assessment of the condition of African people in Nile Valley Civilization. This instruction had been anticipated by Richard Allen and Absolom Jones when they evoked the biblical passage about a Prince coming forth from Egypt and Ethiopia stretching for her arms. A few years later Prince Hall had emphasized his belief that the Jewish prophet Moses had received his first wise teaching from his Ethiopian father-in-law.

Walker's instruction was followed by African nationalist leaders throughout the nineteenth century. Martin R. Delany, Henry Garnet, Edward Blyden, and Henry Turner all emphasized the Nile Valley connection. The theme was raised to a higher level of relevance by Cheikh Anta Diop and George G.M. James in their 1954 publications.
http://weblog.liberatormagazine.com/2012/07/african-world-history-project.html

Our work continues.
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 15, 2015, 12:11:49 AM
A checklist re: the Moors and a short video.
[I am skeptical of a couple of teh claims made in the video (especially at the very end, but more research is needed.]

EXCERPTS:

Quote
4. Basil Davidson, one of the most noted historians recognized and declared that there were no lands at that time (the eighth century) "more admired by its neighbours, or more comfortable to live in, than a rich African civilization which took shape in Spain"

5. At its height, Córdova, the heart of Moorish territory in Spain, was the most modern city in Europe. The streets were well-paved, with raised sidewalks for pedestrians. During the night, ten miles of streets were well illuminated by lamps. (This was hundreds of years before there was a paved street in Paris or a street lamp in London.) Cordova had 900 public baths - we are told that a poor Moor would go without bread rather than soap!

6. The Great Mosque of Córdoba (La Mezquita) is still one of the architectural wonders of the world in spite of later Spanish disfigurements. Its low scarlet and gold roof, supported by 1,000 columns of marble, jasper and and porphyry, was lit by thousands of brass and silver lamps which burned perfumed oil.

7. Education was universal in Moorish Spain, available to all, while in Christian Europe ninety-nine percent of the population were illiterate, and even kings could neither read nor write. At that time, Europe had only two universities, the Moors had seventeen great universities! These were located in Almeria, Cordova, Granada, Juen, Malaga, Seville, and Toledo.
 
8. In the tenth and eleventh centuries, public libraries in Europe were non-existent, while Moorish Spain could boast of more than seventy, of which the one in Cordova housed six hundred thousand manuscripts.
http://www.blackhistorystudies.com/resources/resources/15-facts-on-the-moors-in-spain/

Personal note:  Basil Davidson's Lost Cities of Africa was one of the first, if not the first book I read on Africa.  That would be in the late 1960's or very early 1970's.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41qek%2BTT2uL._SX316_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Cities-Africa-Basil-Davidson/dp/0316174319

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: soflorattler on December 15, 2015, 08:20:32 AM
A few days ago, this thread crossed the 50,000 mark, meaning that someone (not unique hits) opened this thread to read it or comment on it fifty thousand times since it was started.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

B66, I believe that many outside of Onnidan can read what is posted here without being a member of the forum. The clicks also register as views.
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 15, 2015, 03:43:39 PM
A few days ago, this thread crossed the 50,000 mark, meaning that someone (not unique hits) opened this thread to read it or comment on it fifty thousand times since it was started.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

B66, I believe that many outside of Onnidan can read what is posted here without being a member of the forum. The clicks also register as views.

Yes, you are right, SoFlo.  Guests can access O-dan. That gives me an idea. THANKS!!!

Fellow Posters,

If you believe that a certain post in this thread would be of benefit to those in your network, please feel free to share it and the O-dan link in your networks and social media.  Some may be willing also to join us and share their knowledge.

Each of us can help in our own modest way to spread knowledge that will contribute to the full education, the confidence and the resolve of our People and educate others as well.

I very well remember Chris Rock's emotional and very telling reaction when presented with the history of his ancestors based on DNA results...

Quote
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/aalives/

IF NOTHING ELSE, GO TO THE 6:03 MARK TO HEAR CHRIS ROCK SAY when he is told the unknown history of his ancestors:

 
"IF I Had Known This...
It Would Have Taken Away the Inevitability
That I Was Going to Be Nothing.”

That is one of the most profound, moving and succinct summations of the critical importance of a full understanding of history I have ever heard.  The ramifications of that statement on all the little boys and girls of African heritage are enormous and it tells us how much is to be done.

Appreciate y'all!!

EDIT:  The new link to Chris Rock's profound comment is here at the 1:45 mark:  https://www.thirteen.org/wnet/aalives/profiles/rock.html (https://www.thirteen.org/wnet/aalives/profiles/rock.html)

ALWAYS FOR THE PEOPLE!
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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on December 20, 2015, 02:05:15 AM
Origins of "Western" Religions are in Ancient Kemet OR there are some incredible coincidences....depends on a person's d'Nile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g8Jlx8ibUE

O0  50413
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 10, 2016, 10:58:36 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/77/ea/70/77ea704b2a6022f769cff9ba2be4b888.jpg)

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/298785756510073927/

Quote
Earliest known image of Jesus Christ from the Coptic Museum in Cairo, Egypt

Megyn?  Olds..t?

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 13, 2016, 11:37:24 AM
Hey y'all,

Don't forget to hit the poll at the top.
Results are interesting so far.

THANKS!


This excerpt below was posted by a scholar friend (and, B4L, a former editor of The Hilltop in the early '70's)

Quote
ANCIENT AFRICAN CHRISTIANITY

Some scholars of African culture have regrettably acquired a persistent habit of assuming that Christianity began in Africa only a couple of centuries ago, strictly imported from 'the West' or 'the North.' They appear to view Africa as only two or three centuries deep, not two or three millennia. This false start is repeated frequently in some well-intended African theological literature. Even the best of African theologians have been tempted to fall into the stereotype that Christianity came from Europe. This is a narrow, modern view of history, ignoring Christianity's first millennium, when African thought shaped and conditioned virtually every diocese in Christianity worldwide.
"African theologians in the last half century have been singularly preoccupied with fighting the dominance of the modern West, especially during the period in which the struggle for political independence and national identity was crucial for African consciousness. They have fought, in part, by asserting the legitimacy of African traditional religious patterns , motifs , rituals, and memories. But they have fought without their best and nearest weapon: the ancient texts of African Christianity."
P.25-26, "Introduction ," HOW AFRICA SHAPED THE AFRICAN MIND : REDISCOVERING THE AFRICAN SEEDBED OF WESTERN CHRISTIANITY by Thomas C. Oden (2007)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WcWNBy77L._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Africa-Shaped-Christian-Mind-Rediscovering/dp/0830837051

Check out the ASTOUNDING TABLE OF CONTENTS
I found this section particularly interesting (FREE preview):
THE MISSING LINK: THE EARLY AFRICAN WRITTEN INTELLECTUAL TRADITION
Take a few moments to read a few pages there......and zero in from the top of page 29!!!!

I'm old enough to remember the "defensive" reaction in the '70's where Black is Beautiful advocates (like me) defended against the "lack" of African writing by saying, "We are a people with an oral tradition." Many people STILL mistakenly believe it - Black, white and otherwise - to the exclusion of the written record which is far more ancient and, according to Dr. Molefi Asante, far more extensive than the written record in ancient Europe.

The carvings, the papyrus and other written records are THE PROOF!!!
And yet the D'Nile and "legacy of disbelief" continues as an undergirding of white so-called supremacy ideology.


Then scan down to the bottom of page 30 and then page 31 as he commits "race betrayal" and diplomatically condemns white scholars for "assuming the mental superiority" of Europe.

FIVE STARS!!!

Surprise:  the author
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_C._Oden
(https://summaphilosophiae.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/thomas-oden.jpg?w=450)

O0  52016
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 27, 2016, 03:48:20 PM
Christianity Before Jesus

Audio of lecture by John G. Jackson
Tune in at 13:20
https://imixwhatilike.org/2013/12/24/johngjackson/

O0  52334
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on March 30, 2016, 10:20:05 PM
The Empress Candace Of Ethiopia, 332 BC, Who Humiliated Alexander The Great!

Quote
Candace of 332 BC has a particular story that still should stand tall today. Despite the lack of knowledge of these Queens this legend made it’s way out.

(http://urbanintellectuals.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/CandaceEthiopia.jpg)

Her actual name was said to be Amanirenas. She was blind in one eye due to losing it in a battle with the Romans. She was known to be a fierce, tactical and uniting leader.

Alexander the Great had reached Kemet (Ancient Egypt) and was gearing up to battle into Ethiopia. Alexander never fought Candace though and there are a few accounts as to why.

The wildly accepted view one given by Chancellor Williams who wrote ” The Destruction of Black Civilzation” is that upon hearing Alexander the great coming Empress Candace, or Amanirenas, gathered her black troops, lined them up across the first cataract along with herself and stood on top of two African Elephants on a throne and waited for Alexander to show up. Alexander the “great”, didn’t want to chance a loss and give up his undefeated winning streak. He definitely didn’t want to lose it to a woman so once seeing the black Queen on her Elephants and her black armies along with her, Alexander the “great” halted his armies at the first cataract, and turned back up into Egypt. Once he saw the deadly military tactician in all her glory and her black army with the latest iron weapons, he decided against an invasion and turned around.

The other view, slightly less dramatic, is at the link.

http://urbanintellectuals.com/2016/03/14/empress-candace-ethiopia-332-bc-humiliated-alexander-great/

O0  52419
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on April 24, 2016, 09:27:52 PM
Brand new info about Hatshepsut!!!!

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2016/04/13002393_482652188606597_5740562774379908655_o-1024x405.jpg&w=480)
Quote
Female representation of Hatshepsut, highlighted by red lines, that was later replaced by the image of a male king (German Archaeological Institute)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/23/a-new-discovery-sheds-light-on-ancient-egypts-most-successful-female-pharaoh/?wpisrc=nl_az_most

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 02, 2016, 08:44:09 PM
A VERY interesting, if somewhat speculative, article on the oft-dissed Middle Kingdom (2000 to 1650 years before Year 1 A.D. (Common Era).

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/01/07/Web-Resampled/2016-01-06/22.%20Head%20of%20a%20Colossal%20Statue%20of%20Senwosret%20III-300-kaZF--606x404@wp.com.jpg)

Quote
Metropolitan Museum curator of Egyptian Art Adela Oppenheim argues that it’s important to distinguish the archaicizing tendency of Egyptian culture from the real or apparent continuity of Egyptian civilization. Which is to say, the statue of Mentuhotep II doesn’t look old by Egyptian standards because no new ideas had intervened between the 3rd and the 11th dynasties, but because it was deliberately created to look old, a bit of propaganda meant to establish legitimacy and connection to the Old Kingdom.

And yet, for all of the self-conscious efforts of Middle Kingdom artisans to reference the revered Old Kingdom, the exhibition is focused more on change, some of it radical. By the late 12th dynasty, Middle Kingdom rulers were depicted with faces that show signs of aging, care and unrest. Their bodies are still young and athletic, but figures such as Senwosret III no longer have the smooth, rounded faces of indeterminate youth, and the benign half-smiles of the idealized depictions of earlier rulers. There is a gentle sag to the flesh around his mouth, a hollowness under the eyes, which droop slightly, and a small crease in the skin of his forehead. This is, as Met curator emeritus Dorothea Arnold argues in a catalogue essay, a truly astonishing development, resulting in “royal images among the most significant representations of human beings ever created.”
:bow:    :bow:     :bow:     :bow:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/museums/met-exhibit-shatters-19th-century-myths-about-ancient-egypt/2016/01/07/0ee3d356-b49d-11e5-a842-0feb51d1d124_story.html

Nice!!

O0  52997

P.S.  See the new photo and caption added to the previous post, too!
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 10, 2016, 11:07:42 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13103450_634817433340014_7068922566250016215_n.jpg?oh=e6bacfd2e3535d5a96c16882f41b07b0&oe=57A953F0)

O0  53261
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on May 21, 2016, 08:26:53 PM
PROGRAM ANNOUNCEMENT

Sunday, May 22, 2016  4:00pm - 6:00pm

Asar Imhotep - “The Classical Language of Africa: Why We Need to Study the Source”

Asar Imhotep is a computer software programmer, cultural theorist and Africana researcher from Houston, TX whose research focus is the cultural, linguistic, and philosophical links between the Ancient Egyptian civilizations and modern BaNtu cultures of central and South Africa. He is the founder of The Madu-Ndela Institute for the Advancement of Science and Culture, and is the author of numerous books including his latest Nsw.t Bjt.j (King) In Ancient Egyptian: A Lesson in Paronymy and Leadership (2016).

Mr. Imhotep's presentation explores the dynamics of md.w-km.t (medu-kemet: the language of ancient Kemet/Egypt) and its associated writing script sS-mdw-nTr (sesh-medu-netcher: Ku.Swika Madu-a-Ndele in ciLuba-Bantu) within the greater context of the Negro-Egyptian language family (as proposed by Diop, Obenga, and Mboli). We further examine how modern African languages (and cultures) provide us keys for unlocking and interpreting obscure phenomena in ancient nj-km.t(Kemetic) texts.

We will also look at the evolution of Negro-Egyptian: from its classical stage among hunter-gathers near the Great Lakes region in Central East-Africa, from its primordial semantaxes (world-views) as encapsulated within its primitive lexemes, to how these early ideas evolved into the African philosophy and motifs we observe today. Going directly to the source (i.e., African languages and cultures) provides us the necessary toolkit to construct a more robust and dynamic living system that will allow for us to successfully tower over the challenges of today and beyond while maintaining African agency.

Please join us for this exciting and enlightening program! See the attached flyer for more details.



Molefi Kete Asante Institute for Afrocentric Studies
5535 Germantown Avenue
Philadelphia, PA 19144
215-882-9200
www.mkainstitute.com
https://www.facebook.com/Molefi-Kete-Asante-Institute-627463580622375/
http://smile.amazon.com/ch/45-2093093
mkainstitute | The Premier International African Think-Tank
www.mkainstitute.com


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GD-DpIGIL._SX348_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

Quote
Nsw.t Bjt.j (King) in Ancient Egyptian: A Lesson in Paronymy and Leadership takes a fresh look into the meaning of the name Nsw.t Bjt.j (Nesut Bitii “King”) in the ancient ci.Kam (Egyptian) languages using the analytical tools of anthropological linguistics and comparative cultural anthropology. Its aim is to explicate from primary sources—and from related African languages and cultures—the methods that inspire the various conceptual and emblematic associations related to ancient Egyptian kingship in particular and African kingship in general. In addition, Nsw.t Bjt.j also explores the primary functions and duties of the African king (and queen) in an effort to develop a framework for creating effective leaders in the modern African world community.

http://www.amazon.com/Nsw-t-Bjt-j-King-Ancient-Egyptian/dp/0692637664

Suggestion: Read the Acknowledgements to get an idea of the depth of this work!

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on June 21, 2016, 12:54:40 PM
For those who "need validation from others" and as review of well-known information for the rest of us:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0xOWebVYvw

O0
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on July 22, 2016, 03:50:37 PM
Rep King's ignorant comments about "contributions" to Western Civ by non-whites make a mockery of US education to the extent that most people are likely to believe him.

We may have touched on this before, but here is a detailed description of how the knowledge of the Blackamoors - who ruled Spain for 700 years - had a MAJOR influence on the much-vaunted European Renaissance.

The thousands of books left behind when the Blackamoors were forced out of Spain in 1492 were quite useful to the Europeans.

Those texts were translated by Italian Jews from Arab into Hebrew and then from Hebrew to Latin in Florence and other sites which became the source of the European Renaissance.

The Translation of Arabic Works on Logic into Latin in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance

Quote
In the Middle Ages, and again in the Renaissance, several Arabic texts on logic were translated into Latin. These included not only works by Arabic philosophers,
Avicenna, Algazel, Alfarabi and Averroes, but also texts originally written in
Greek, i.e. the Organon or corpus on logic by Aristotle, on which all Medieval
and Renaissance texts were ultimately based. 1 While one can understand how
Latin translations of Arabic works on mathematics, medicine, astrology and other
practical sciences could useful,
it is more difficult to imagine how texts on logic
written in, and for, a Semitic language could make much sense in a language
which is completely unrelated to it. For Aristotelian logic is, of course, very
much language based. Moreover, while Latin scholars were lacking scientific texts
in mathematics and medicine
,...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1874585704800104

AND

"Influence of Arabic and Islamic Philosophy on the Latin West"

Quote
The Arabic-Latin translation movements in the Middle Ages, which paralleled that from Greek into Latin, led to the transformation of almost all philosophical disciplines in the medieval Latin world. The impact of Arabic philosophers such as al-Fārābī, Avicenna and Averroes on Western philosophy was particularly strong in natural philosophy, psychology and metaphysics, but also extended to logic and ethics.
 
Among the influential Arabic theories are: the logical distinction between first and second intentions; the intension and remission of elementary forms; the soul's faculty of estimation and its object, the intentions; the conjunction between human intellect and separate active intellect; the unicity of the material intellect (Averroism); naturalistic theories of miracles and prophecy; the eternity of the world and the concept of eternal creation; the active intellect as giver of forms; the first cause as necessary existent; the emanation of intelligences from the first cause; the distinction between essence and existence; the theory of primary concepts; the concept of human happiness as resulting from perfect conjunction of the human intellect with the active intellect."
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/arabic-islamic-influence/

O0  54736
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 02, 2016, 10:08:25 AM
So,....

African People are not the only ones who complain about their/our history being "white-washed."

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160801091826-matt-damon-great-wall-film-exlarge-169.jpg)

Quote
(Constance) Wu said films like Matt Damon's forthcoming "The Great Wall," in which the star plays a warrior defending the landmark against ancient Chinese monsters, add to a problem that's existed for too long in the industry.

Can we all at least agree that hero-bias & "but it's really hard to finance" are no longer excuses for racism?

— Constance Wu (@ConstanceWu) July 29, 2016

"We have to stop perpetuating the racist myth that a (sic) only white man can save the world," she wrote. "It's not based in actual fact. Our heroes don't look like Matt Damon. They look like Malala. Ghandi. Mandela. Your big sister when she stood up for you to those bullies that one time."

Wu said typical reasons given for whitewashing films -- like the lack of bankable diverse stars and the need to appease overseas investors -- are no longer valid.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/29/entertainment/constance-wu-whitewashing-matt-damon/index.html

"The Last Samurai" was bad, too.  Tom Cruise had to come in and save the Chinese leader.

Now Matt Damon.  It'll take a little bit off my enjoyment of seeing the new Bourne flick.

Wonder if any white actors turned the part down BECAUSE of opposition to "white-washing."

O0   54870
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 08, 2016, 04:50:20 PM
ATLANTA BLACK STAR IS ON POINT!!

12 Images That Show Ancient Egypt was Ruled by Black People

VIDEO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDGYdqw4e2I

O0   54972
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 13, 2016, 02:31:43 PM
Fellow Seekers of Knowledge!

This is a keeper and one to SHARE.

This young Afro-British Brother presents a lecture at the Oxford Union to a "stunned into silence" audience on ancient African/Black history and the shortcomings of "western" education/indoctrination.

It is long but VERY WELL worth it.  His style is conversational and backed up with data, sources and references. (Unfortunately you can't see his illustrations and slides.)  So much info off the top of his head/from memory!!!  Extremely impressive!!

For anyone with kids or grandkids, THIS SHOULD BE MANDATORY "SIT DOWN AND WATCH WITH ME AND WE WILL DISCUSS AFTERWARDS." (That is exactly what I will be doing with my grands (17 and 15) on my next visits.

Remember his name: AKALA.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUtAxUQjwB4

Would love to hear what you think of his presentation.

O0  55116
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on August 29, 2016, 12:20:04 PM
If you haven't responded to the poll, please do so.  Asante SANA!  Thank You!

In this very informative video, the late and great Gil Noble of the legendary "Tell It Like It Is" show in NYC hosts THREE HISTORIAN GIANTS.

IF you have not yet read They Came Before Columbus, I highly recommend it.  Many of Dr. Van Sertima's findings have been since confirmed by technology that was not available when he wrote decades ago.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g7k_oKWuWIQ

O0.  55357



Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 04, 2016, 01:17:39 AM
The African presence in Asia and in China specifically has been well documented.

New findings suggest a lot more than a presence.

Explosive Archaeological Discovery:
The Ancestors of the Chinese People
Came from Egypt

The Hyksos, who were NOT Egyptian or African invaded and ruled Kemet (Ancient Egypt) for a long time just like the Blackamoors did in Iberia (Spain), but the Moors ruled at least twice as long.

Radioactive findings in bronze indicate that the earliest high civilization in CHINA was heavily influenced by the Hyksos.  After they were run out of Kemet, some of them escaped by sea and sailed east to western China.

Hmmm...

Please also note how the article lays out the impact of Chinese NATIONALISM (but,...think about "white nationalism") on scientific, archealogical and historical research.  You will note that these findings were suppressed for decades.  VERY instructive!!

Quote


(Sun Weidong) cited several ancient Chinese classics, at one point quoting historian Sima Qian’s description of the topography of the Xia empire — traditionally regarded as China’s founding dynasty, dating from 2070 to 1600 B.C. “Northwards the stream is divided and becomes the nine rivers,” wrote Sima Qian in his first century historiography, the Records of the Grand Historian. “Reunited, it forms the opposing river and flows into the sea.”

In other words, “the stream” in question wasn’t China’s famed Yellow River, which flows from west to east. “There is only one major river in the world which flows northwards. Which one is it?” the professor asked. “The Nile,” someone replied. Sun then showed a map of the famed Egyptian river and its delta — with nine of its distributaries flowing into the Mediterranean.

[...]

In the past year, Sun, a highly decorated scientist, has ignited a passionate online debate with claims that the founders of Chinese civilization were not in any sense Chinese but actually migrants from Egypt. He conceived of this connection in the 1990s while performing radiometric dating of ancient Chinese bronzes; to his surprise, their chemical composition more closely resembled those of ancient Egyptian bronzes than native Chinese ores.

[...]

...current theory is an unintended result of the Chronology Project’s scientific rigor. At the project’s launch in 1996, he was a Ph.D. student in the radiation laboratory of the University of Science and Technology. Of the 200 or so items of bronze ware he was responsible for analyzing, some came from the city of Yin. He found that the radioactivity of these Yin-Shang bronzes had almost exactly the same characteristics as that of ancient Egyptian bronzes, suggesting that their ores all came from the same source: African mines.

Perhaps anticipating serious controversy, Sun’s doctoral supervisor did not allow Sun to report his findings at the time. Sun was asked to hand over his data and switched to another project. Twenty years after the start of his research and now a professor in his own right, Sun is finally ready to say all he knows about the Yin-Shang and China’s Bronze Age culture...

[...]

...the fascination with ancient Egypt appears unlikely to go away soon. As the Xia-Shang-Zhou Chronology project demonstrated, the sentiment has deep, politically tinged roots. These were on display again during President Xi Jinping’s state visit to Egypt in January to commemorate the 60th anniversary of diplomatic relations. On arrival, Xi greeted Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi with an Egyptian proverb: “Once you drink from the Nile, you are destined to return.” They celebrated the antiquity of their two civilizations with a joint visit to the Luxor temple.

It remains to be seen whether Sun’s evidence will be incorporated into mainstream politics to prove a long-standing Sino-Egyptian cultural relationship. But if it is, the proverb Xi uttered after he set foot in Egypt will have been strangely prophetic.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/02/did-chinese-civilization-come-from-ancient-egypt-archeological-debate-at-heart-of-china-national-identity/

NOTE: There are limits to the times you can visit Foreigh Policy for free!!

No "biased" Afrocentric scholars involved in this!!!

NOTE to those with a festering legacy of disbelief:  Kemet was already thousands of years old when the Hyksos invaded.  The pyramids were at least a thousand years old.

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Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on September 14, 2016, 11:46:13 PM
THANKS to the new respondents to the survey.
If you have not replied, please do.


This is a great TEDx Talk by an incredible professor at Howard University and graduate of Tennessee State University, Ohio State and Temple University.

(http://coas.howard.edu/afroamerican/images/carr.jpg)

He speaks on discovery and recovery.
VIDEO:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQzjIXqBpzY

And he speaks the ancient Kemetan language, too!!

This link takes you to information about the museum of African Art exhibit on The Cosmos, Dr. Carr highlights: https://africa.si.edu/exhibits/cosmos/intro.html

Dr. Carr's blog is wonderfully written and timely:
http://drgregcarr.squarespace.com/about/

O0  55655
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 15, 2016, 12:39:32 AM
In French.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41MtWl7D6cL._SX310_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Abubakari II : Explorateur mandingue

Translation:
Quote
Abubakari II:   Mandinke Explorer
The author achieves in this work the synthesis of over twenty years of research on the Mandingo emperor Abubakari II, who, in 1312, voluntarily gave up the power to explore the limits of the ocean. Its fleet would wet on the coast of Brazil. Abubakari II is one of the pioneers of the Age of Discovery ... Before Columbus before Magellan, Vasco da Gama before.
https://www.amazon.fr/Abubakari-Explorateur-mandingue-Gaoussou-Diawara-ebook/dp/B0056ERIMI

O0   56072
Title: Re: "...a nation to which Europe owes everything, for Egypt is responsible for..."
Post by: Bison66 on October 17, 2016, 10:07:28 PM
I'm an optimist - irrationally optimistic most of the time - so I found it interesting that a 27 year old white supremacist whose mother used to be married to David Duke and whose godfather is David Duke and whose father and mother were/are racists and raised him to be a racist would have an epiphany.  His father Don Black founded the website StormFront (from which Olds..t got busted posting info years ago)

Derek Black
Quote
..was taking classes in Jewish scripture and German multiculturalism during his last year at New College, but most of his research was focused on medieval Europe. He learned that Western Europe had begun not as a great society of genetically superior people but as a technologically backward place that lagged behind Islamic culture. He studied the 8th century to the 12th century, trying to trace back the modern concepts of race and whiteness, but he couldn’t find them anywhere. “We basically just invented it,” he concluded...

His father's reaction?

Quote
...Don was at the computer the next afternoon searching Google when Derek’s name popped up in a headline on his screen. For a decade, Don had been typing “Stormfront” and “Derek Black” into the search bar a few times each week to track his son’s public rise in white nationalism. This particular story had been published by the SPLC, which Don had always referred to as the “Poverty Palace.”

“Activist Son of Key Racist Leader Renounces White Nationalism,” it read, and Don began to read the letter. It had phrases like “structural oppression,” “privilege,” “limited opportunity,” and “marginalized groups” — the kind of liberal-apologist language Don and Derek had often made fun of on the radio.

“You got hacked,” Don remembered telling Derek, once he reached him on the phone.

“It’s real,” Derek said, and then he heard the sound of his father hanging up.

For the next few hours, Don was in disbelief. Maybe Derek was pulling a prank on him. Maybe he still believed in white nationalism but just wanted an easier life.

Derek called back, and this time his mother answered. She said that she didn’t want to speak to him. She handed the phone to Don, and his voice was shaky and tearful. Derek had never heard him that way. “I can’t talk,” Don said, and he hung up again.

Later that night, Don logged on to the Stormfront message board. “I’m sure this will b