Onnidan Fan Forum

Discussion => Sports Forum => Topic started by: klg14 on May 10, 2021, 05:11:55 PM

Title: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: klg14 on May 10, 2021, 05:11:55 PM
The Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference is considering all options in its attempts to rebuild conference membership.
https://hbcusports.com/2021/05/10/kentucky-state-virginia-state-considering-move-up-to-division-i-to-join-meac/
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 10, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
Interesting
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 10, 2021, 05:27:45 PM
great to hear. Hope it works out
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ncsiacfan on May 10, 2021, 05:36:05 PM
I wish them well. Virginia State is right in the MEAC footprint and has been a CIAA powerhouse. Kentucky State is not in that footprint and has not been a SIAC powerhouse.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 10, 2021, 05:55:29 PM
I can see them going after Benedict to renew the Huge Heated Rivalry between them and South Carolina State and I can see them revisiting WSSU about rejoining the MEAC. :nod:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JBROB on May 10, 2021, 06:01:49 PM
Frankfort, KY is 8 hours from everywhere in the MEAC.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: csugrad on May 10, 2021, 06:18:28 PM
I’m not surprised that VSU is considering this move. I’m shocked that Kentucky State is under consideration to join. They are barely a geographic fit in the SIAC but moving to the MEAC doesn’t seem to make any sense whatsoever. If they did make the move I think it would put us out of the SIAC. They are the only school within a 7 hour drive of our campus. If they moved I’m not sure the SIAC members would still elect to travel to Wilberforce, OH.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: DRUMMA1 on May 10, 2021, 06:33:38 PM
Christopher Brown is the president at KSU so I'm not surprised. He has always been an ambitious, progressive leader.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 10, 2021, 06:44:27 PM
 :clap: 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 10, 2021, 07:30:54 PM
We’ll see
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: thatd@mnYOGI on May 10, 2021, 07:38:22 PM
This is laughable. The MEAC has gotten down to the bare minimum at this point when it could have saved itself decades ago prior to the mass exodus of its storied schools. The addition of these schools isn't going to save the MEAC. Who's paying a $1 million to move up and Kentucky State is barely making it themselves in the SIAC. I doubt this happen. BUT, IF it does, I hope Kentucky State will take Central State, LeMoyne-Owen and Lane with them. It will definitely help our travel and financial burden of traveling to those schools.

that's all...   :lol:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 10, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
Virginia State makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 10, 2021, 07:48:16 PM
This is laughable. The MEAC has gotten down to the bare minimum at this point when it could have saved itself decades ago prior to the mass exodus of its storied schools. The addition of these schools isn't going to save the MEAC. Who's paying a $1 million to move up and Kentucky State is barely making it themselves in the SIAC. I doubt this happen. BUT, IF it does, I hope Kentucky State will take Central State, LeMoyne-Owen and Lane with them. It will definitely help our travel and financial burden of traveling to those schools.

that's all...   :lol:

VSU has the money to move up they just got 30 mill unrestricted. I don’t know about KSU’s situation though, seems like just talk at the moment.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ncsiacfan on May 10, 2021, 08:17:42 PM
Bowie would make sense and they have the enrollment. From the recent statement that they made, they appear to want to do something. But for whatever the reasons, they do not have a large crowd even at homecoming. I am certain that the powers that be in the MEAC have already discussed this.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 10, 2021, 08:18:43 PM
LeMoyne-Owen doesn’t have Football but they can go after Tennessee State. If anything I can see Lane and LeMoyne-Owen playing in the GCAC.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Olde Hornet on May 10, 2021, 08:21:27 PM
Good luck to the MEAC and both universities.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: AimHigh on May 10, 2021, 08:40:57 PM
VA State is a perfect fit. Kentucky State could be interesting for a northern oriented MEAC, but are they another SSU / WSSU repeat? :shrug: ALSO can we take HBCU Sports as serious journalism?? :-X :thefan:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 10, 2021, 08:45:00 PM
Like FOX News, anytime you cater to one group over others for economic reasons, things can get quite misleading when it comes to facts and fictions.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: DRUMMA1 on May 10, 2021, 08:56:13 PM
ALSO can we take HBCU Sports as serious journalism?? :-X :thefan:

:lol:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: lew9ball on May 10, 2021, 09:47:47 PM
Good move for Virginia State. Kentucky State need to stay put. ;)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: y04185 on May 10, 2021, 10:19:06 PM
Virginia State would be better off in the  Colonial or Atlantic 10.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: DRUMMA1 on May 10, 2021, 10:21:42 PM
Good move for Virginia State. Kentucky State need to stay put. ;)

Agreed.  I just saw a video of their stadium. They will need some serious stadium additions and upgrades if they want to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: DAHILL on May 10, 2021, 10:38:31 PM
Kentucky State barely got 2000 students.... not a good move for them. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: punchy on May 10, 2021, 11:28:49 PM
Virginia State would be better off in the  Colonial or Atlantic 10.

 ::)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 11, 2021, 12:00:13 AM
Kentucky State barely got 2000 students.... not a good move for them.

MVSU 1900
UAPB 2000
Alcorn 3000

All say hi 
 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jafus [Thinker] on May 11, 2021, 12:13:21 AM
Interesting & Intriguing!
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 11, 2021, 12:27:42 AM
Kentucky State barely got 2000 students.... not a good move for them.

MVSU 1900
UAPB 2000
Alcorn 3000

All say hi

True, but geographically speaking, Valley, UAPB, and Alcorn are well within the SWAC's footprint.  KSU would have to travel a bit in the MEAC and we all now know how much travel budget plays into conference decisions.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Que82 on May 11, 2021, 12:28:46 AM
I can see them going after Benedict to renew the Huge Heated Rivalry between them and South Carolina State and I can see them revisiting WSSU about rejoining the MEAC. :nod:
I doubt if Ky State is going to move, heyal they aren't even a good SIAC team. :no:  They've had one winning season since 2012.  Even the year that was talked about they lost to Skegee, Morehouse and Mills Community College of Da Field.  I doubt if Madame Prez at BC is willing to pay that much money go FCS.  She really doesn't care for football but knows its a good tool to raise money and the BOT/alumni want it.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: DRUMMA1 on May 11, 2021, 01:52:34 AM
I can see them going after Benedict to renew the Huge Heated Rivalry between them and South Carolina State and I can see them revisiting WSSU about rejoining the MEAC. :nod:
I doubt if Ky State is going to move, heyal they aren't even a good SIAC team. :no:  They've had one winning season since 2012.  Even the year that was talked about they lost to Skegee, Morehouse and Mills Community College of Da Field.  I doubt if Madame Prez at BC is willing to pay that much money go FCS.  She really doesn't care for football but knows its a good tool to raise money and the BOT/alumni want it.

She is FINE but I'm so glad she wasn't chosen to be our president.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: VSUTrojanFan on May 11, 2021, 08:44:20 AM
Just another clickbait story. Sure we have a nice campus and a new basketball arena but that doesn't drive revenue. it's people in the stands. isn't it $1M just to consider moving up to D1? Not to mention the $ it costs to fund a D1 athletic program. I would rather stay at D2 and improve our academic and athletic programs than chase that D1 bone.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: thatd@mnYOGI on May 11, 2021, 08:54:47 AM
I've just said that VSUTrojanFan in my previous comments. No one has $1 million just sitting around to move up a Division and then to sustain it at that level in all sports. I'm very aware of Virginia State and how they have progressed under their new president over the years. Moving up to Division I just to help salvage the dysfunction that is the MEAC leadership is not a good reason. As I stated about Kentucky State, they aren't a viable candidate for the move. I can see their alumni that I know in DC will not be on board with this move.

It's all about dollars and SENSE.

that's all...   :tiptoe:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 11, 2021, 09:22:02 AM
A million dollars is a lot of money, but a million dollars really isn't a lot of money. 

 :popcorn:

A better question to ask is. . why isn't Virginia State already in Division I?

Considering long-term growth and branding, we should ask the same question of Albany State and Fayetteville State as well.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 11, 2021, 09:31:39 AM
It's not all about just being DI, but as a means to move up in competition by recruiting higher caliber athletes,  offering more scholarships, and more exposure.  Plus, bigger payout for playing money games.  And who knows, if things are done right, you might be able to win a few and still collect a big check. It kills me when DII HBCU programs think that they should get the same amount of exposure as DI HBCU programs. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: TrueTrojan on May 11, 2021, 09:32:35 AM
I agree, as do most of our alumni based on other feedback I've seen since this announcement.  This is a pipe dream for our President who likes to be front and center and take credit for everything, even stuff that happened BEFORE he came to VSU.  This wasn't even under consideration until we received that fat, unrestricted $30m check from MacKenzie Scott so now he wants to blow it moving to D1 and a conference that has no future.  We need to stay put and use that money to fund student scholarships (academic, not athletic) and capital improvements that have been put on the back burner for years. CIAA FOR LIFE!
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: AimHigh on May 11, 2021, 09:33:24 AM
A million dollars is a lot of money, but a million dollars really isn't a lot of money. 

 :popcorn:

A better question to ask is. . why isn't Virginia State already in Division I?

Considering long-term growth and branding, we should ask the same question of Albany State and Fayetteville State as well.

Are you serious Fayetteville State D1?? They are weaker than their natural rival WSSU which is right where they belong in the CIAA.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: y04185 on May 11, 2021, 09:44:03 AM
A million dollars is a lot of money, but a million dollars really isn't a lot of money. 

 :popcorn:

A better question to ask is. . why isn't Virginia State already in Division I?

Considering long-term growth and branding, we should ask the same question of Albany State and Fayetteville State as well.

Fayetteville State University is not moving up.  We're tearing down outside basketball goals on campus.  We're limiting the use of two gyms.  We don't even have a track.  Our bowling team has to use a local bowling alley to practice.  Because they can't use the lanes in the student center. 

Woe is us.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Platinum_Sound on May 11, 2021, 10:22:34 AM
I truly think where most are right now...is where they need to be.  Some maybe should move DOWN.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: thatd@mnYOGI on May 11, 2021, 10:30:21 AM

Considering long-term growth and branding, we should ask the same question of Albany State and Fayetteville State as well.

HA...that's not a question to be asked by our rivals to the southwest of us. If Valdosta State, which has some National Championships in Division II and more students and south of Albany State hasn't moved up, what makes you think Albany State would? The good ol' boys will not allow that to happen. Savannah State barely got away with it, but realize you have to have some serious financial support to sustain on that level. They're not going to allow Albany State to try it since the presidents of our schools were appointed by the former Chancellor. It's all about control right now for the Board of REGIME.

that's all... 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jay_Thomas on May 11, 2021, 10:35:15 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4c/de/10/4cde10c9c0a2312df513a7046afd4c90.gif)


Oy Vey!
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 11, 2021, 10:50:40 AM
Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.


I agree Fayetteville State isn't ready to move up currently.  Had they made a decision back in 2005 to move, they would be larger, probably bigger than NCCU and have more doctoral programs.  In the span since 2005, UNC-Pembroke has grown by almost 3000 students; and FSU has pretty much been stagnant.  A move to D1 likely would have allowed them to grow.

Albany State has political obstacles, that's true.  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 11, 2021, 10:52:36 AM
I agree, as do most of our alumni based on other feedback I've seen since this announcement.  This is a pipe dream for our President who likes to be front and center and take credit for everything, even stuff that happened BEFORE he came to VSU.  This wasn't even under consideration until we received that fat, unrestricted $30m check from MacKenzie Scott so now he wants to blow it moving to D1 and a conference that has no future.  We need to stay put and use that money to fund student scholarships (academic, not athletic) and capital improvements that have been put on the back burner for years. CIAA FOR LIFE!

Disagree on that comment. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Que82 on May 11, 2021, 11:12:45 AM
LeMoyne-Owen doesn’t have Football but they can go after Tennessee State. If anything I can see Lane and LeMoyne-Owen playing in the GCAC.
How exactly would the MEAC benefit TnST????  The only rivalry would be against SCSU.  The attendance would probably be no more than in the OVC.  Additionally, travel would kill them. Most of their OVC schools are less than 200 miles away with the longest being 287 miles.  Every school in the MEAC is over 300 miles away with one being almost 900 miles.  I don't see that happening. :no:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: westcoastaggie on May 11, 2021, 11:23:05 AM
Interesting & Intriguing!

 :angel:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jaimac on May 11, 2021, 11:23:10 AM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ALMIGHTY on May 11, 2021, 11:36:16 AM
  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:
The MEAC should not expand pass SC.  SC was the southern most part of the MEAC footprint in 1971 and truthfully should have never expanded pass that.  GA and FL are in the SWAC's footprint.  Geographically and culturally. 

VSU is the prize here, but Kentucky State has to be considered because of the dire situation the MEAC is in.  Besides added costs for D1 membership, travel would be about the same, plus they could play money football and basketball games against FBS teams in-state and in the Midwest.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: VSUTrojanFan on May 11, 2021, 11:56:32 AM
we aren't D1 because we don't have the financial resources that it takes to maintain a D1 athletic program. it's more than just the $1M entry fee, you have to have $ to pay for the additional scholarships, travel costs, facility upgrades, coaching and training staff, etc. the MEAC is on a life support because their leadership failed them by not thinking forward. Some of the HBCUs that are D1 are struggling financially and would be better served being a D2 school but won't drop down.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: FunCkMaster on May 11, 2021, 12:32:32 PM
Bowie would make sense and they have the enrollment. From the recent statement that they made, they appear to want to do something. But for whatever the reasons, they do not have a large crowd even at homecoming. I am certain that the powers that be in the MEAC have already discussed this.

The homecoming crowds thing has many variables. Unfortunately, we are located in an area where schools such as Howard, Morgan State, Towson, and sometimes U of Maryland will have homecomings scheduled at the same time as ours. And we still get packed crowds on those occasions (especially after the game, parking get absolutely NUTS). On the very few occasions when either one or no other area schools has a homecoming game, we have had some packed out crowd situations.

As far as crowds overall, as I have said many times on Onnidan before, because we are in a transient area with a ton of other things to do, we unfortunately do not have the following that we would have if we were located in a scarcely-populated area with hardly any other draws. Not to mention Saturday morning and afternoon little league and high school games compete with the local fans and the huge amount of BSU alumni who have children who participate in these programs.

That being said, while the University is making huge strides in all types of areas, we ain't ready for that move, as much as I wouldn't mind seeing it. Five to 10 years from now? Who knows? I like that we are ultra-competitive and somewhat successful in a decent amount of sports in the conference.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 11, 2021, 01:15:46 PM
All of y'all have viable points. :nod:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 11, 2021, 01:21:50 PM
It's great that both are doing the study.  Hope things work for V-State. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 11, 2021, 01:30:17 PM
I'm sure that other HBCU's are doing the samething to as doing a Study. :nod:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: punchy on May 11, 2021, 01:36:44 PM
we aren't D1 because we don't have the financial resources that it takes to maintain a D1 athletic program. it's more than just the $1M entry fee, you have to have $ to pay for the additional scholarships, travel costs, facility upgrades, coaching and training staff, etc. the MEAC is on a life support because their leadership failed them by not thinking forward. Some of the HBCUs that are D1 are struggling financially and would be better served being a D2 school but won't drop down.

Do you actually think VSU made improvements to their athletic baseball and softball facilities, built a brand new basketball center, upgraded their football stadium, with lights, just to remain in D2? There has got to be some talk somewhere about moving to a D1 conference.
And, in all honesty, I think the MEAC was thinking ahead by getting WSSU and SSU in the MEAC, which would have made travel easier for BCU and FAMU, but WSSU and SSU couldn't maintain D1-FCS status. When they left, then Hampton peeled off, then the A&T-FAMU-BCU exodus.
That million dollar entry fee is daunting. I wonder if it can be paid in installments, or if it can be waived entirely in this COVID-19 reality?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 11, 2021, 02:19:10 PM
  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:
The MEAC should not expand pass SC.  SC was the southern most part of the MEAC footprint in 1971 and truthfully should have never expanded pass that.  GA and FL are in the SWAC's footprint.  Geographically and culturally. 

VSU is the prize here, but Kentucky State has to be considered because of the dire situation the MEAC is in.  Besides added costs for D1 membership, travel would be about the same, plus they could play money football and basketball games against FBS teams in-state and in the Midwest.

I said that implying that they should have been recruited before the Florida schools left.  Other than that, I agree with you. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 11, 2021, 03:44:42 PM
I would say this that alot of things are discussed behind Closed Doors. They only let you know when they want you to know as we saw yesterday when this article appeared. They just gave y'all something to marinate on. :nod: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: lew9ball on May 11, 2021, 04:05:19 PM
With soo many uncertainties about finance due to Covid 19 I think it's a smart move for Div11 to stay put especially HBCUs. Hell University Hartford a Division 1 school dropped all the way to Division III. ::)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: FunCkMaster on May 11, 2021, 04:09:34 PM
With soo many uncertainties about finance due to Covid 19 I think it's a smart move for Div11 to stay put especially HBCUs. Hell University Hartford a Division 1 school dropped all the way to Division III. ::)

That's wild ain't it? Went to the NCAA tourney in hoops and gettin' busted back down. Wow. Welp, I am sure the school knows best...
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: lew9ball on May 11, 2021, 04:26:15 PM
With soo many uncertainties about finance due to Covid 19 I think it's a smart move for Div11 to stay put especially HBCUs. Hell University Hartford a Division 1 school dropped all the way to Division III. ::)

That's wild ain't it? Went to the NCAA tourney in hoops and gettin' busted back down. Wow. Welp, I am sure the school knows best...
There are many unhappy student athletes, students, alumni and supporters. However you're right ph--kMaster the school/university thought it was best.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ncsiacfan on May 11, 2021, 05:26:14 PM
When I was working at the then Virginia State College, I picked up a person at the Richmond Airport. I told him that this winding drive on the airport grounds was not for scenic purpose. That is a civil war picket line on the other side and it can't be touched. If you know Virginians, I would dare say that they renovate before tearing down and then build with the buildings payed for without bond money. I think that VSU graduates are just as satisfied as those from the AU center. They did not build or renovate with a move to DI in mind. If you make the right approach they will listen. That does not mean that they will move. Unless I am mistaken, their biggest rival is Virginia Union University and not Norfolk State University. That the MEAC would approach Kentucky State shows that they have serious problems.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: VSUTrojanFan on May 11, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
Punchy, I don't think the improvements to Rogers Stadium and building baseball and softball facilities on campus had anything to do with going D1. The baseball team used to play in Colonial Heights and the softball team in Ettrick Park. the renovations to the stadium were desperately needed. as far as the MPC, the bulk of that money came from the state of VA and Chesterfield County. even with a brand new facility, attendance for games is hit and miss. People will show up for Union, Bowie, Norfolk (when they came to us), but people aren't coming to see Elizabeth City or Lincoln. the fee to move up is $1.7M. I guess the people that want to make that move, want to take the $ that was donated. where is the $ supposed to come from to fund the other 30 football scholarships to move to FCS level? to pay the additional staff needed for coaches and support staff? Scholarships for the non revenue sports? I would rather spend that donation $ on improving our academic offerings and campus facilities than to join the already in trouble MEAC just so some can puff their chest out and say my school is D1. There's a difference between D1 and HBCU D1
 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ALMIGHTY on May 11, 2021, 07:37:26 PM
I think the MEAC is going to be fine with new members or not. Many people may disagree, but the current MEAC is actually more ideal.  More important than expanding is the retention of its current members. The original MEAC had seven members and quickly became a viable conference.  Hypothetically speaking, if the remaining members stay put, that would be the original MEAC minus A&T.  All of the remaining members made short work of filling their respective ooc schedules and I do not expect that to change.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: colapanther13 on May 11, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: FunCkMaster on May 11, 2021, 08:14:32 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.

Chicago State? I must have missed that! They already traveling hither and yon as a part of the Western Athletic Conference. And now they gonna go exactly the opposite way? :lol:

MAAAAAAAAN they ain't gonna add a football program, and they are halfway across America, even further than kentucky St. Someone is smoking that "good-good"!
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 11, 2021, 08:35:30 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.

Chicago State? I must have missed that! They already traveling hither and yon as a part of the Western Athletic Conference. And now they gonna go exactly the opposite way? :lol:

MAAAAAAAAN they ain't gonna add a football program, and they are halfway across America, even further than kentucky St. Someone is smoking that "good-good"!

Chicago State left the WAC.

Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 11, 2021, 08:48:37 PM
One good thing, it sounds like the MEAC has options and there are schools that are interested.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: FunCkMaster on May 11, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.

Chicago State? I must have missed that! They already traveling hither and yon as a part of the Western Athletic Conference. And now they gonna go exactly the opposite way? :lol:

MAAAAAAAAN they ain't gonna add a football program, and they are halfway across America, even further than kentucky St. Someone is smoking that "good-good"!

Chicago State left the WAC.

Technically they are still in, but only till 2022. But I was not aware that they signed up to roll out. Thanks for that fresh info. :nod: :clap:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 11, 2021, 09:17:51 PM
I think the MEAC is going to be fine with new members or not. Many people may disagree, but the current MEAC is actually more ideal.  More important than expanding is the retention of its current members. The original MEAC had seven members and quickly became a viable conference.  Hypothetically speaking, if the remaining members stay put, that would be the original MEAC minus A&T.  All of the remaining members made short work of filling their respective ooc schedules and I do not expect that to change.

Almost still waiting on Howard, they only has 9 games
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 11, 2021, 09:44:43 PM
I think the MEAC is going to be fine with new members or not. Many people may disagree, but the current MEAC is actually more ideal.  More important than expanding is the retention of its current members. The original MEAC had seven members and quickly became a viable conference.  Hypothetically speaking, if the remaining members stay put, that would be the original MEAC minus A&T.  All of the remaining members made short work of filling their respective ooc schedules and I do not expect that to change.


I agree 100%. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: The Watcher on May 11, 2021, 09:49:33 PM
Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.


I agree Fayetteville State isn't ready to move up currently.  Had they made a decision back in 2005 to move, they would be larger, probably bigger than NCCU and have more doctoral programs.  In the span since 2005, UNC-Pembroke has grown by almost 3000 students; and FSU has pretty much been stagnant.  A move to D1 likely would have allowed them to grow.

Albany State has political obstacles, that's true.  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:

You do know that Fayetteville State has nearly 7k students...not too far off from NCCU.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jay_Thomas on May 11, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
CHICAGO STATE?
WHO SAID CHICAGO STATE?

The MEAC would be better off getting Coppin
 and UMES to bring back ncaa football cause
 Chicago State has NO football team either
 and is waaaaay OVER THERE!


Folks know they do some serious reaching  ;D


And CAU and Morehouse ain't going anywhere either!  :no:

Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 11, 2021, 11:30:56 PM
From HBCUGameday.com

The future of the MEAC has been a hot topic in HBCU sports for years, especially in the last 18 months. With three schools leaving the conference in July, the 50-year-old league is trying to keep things in place.

As has often been the case in the conference’s history, it is looking at Division II HBCUs to push forward.

The league has two of them – one from the CIAA and the other from the SIAC — in its sights. Both Kentucky State and Virginia State have looked into the possibility of moving up to Division I and the MEAC. It also has another school that is already Division I that allegedly wants in very badly.


SOURCE: KENTUCKY STATE PUT OUT FEELERS, MEAC AGREED TO WAIVE MEMBERSHIP FEE
A source tells HBCU Gameday that Kentucky State requested a feasibility study on moving up to DI last fall. The MEAC reportedly agreed to waive the $250k fee to join the conference if the school made the move in 2021. The $1.7 million fee to join Division I is not waivable. 

The feasibility study was completed earlier this year and delivered to KYSU.

“There have been conversations. No decision has been made. The University is weighing the opportunity,” KYSU President Dr. M. Christopher Brown II told HBCU Sports. “There are strengths to remaining in the SIAC and exciting opportunities in shifting to the MEAC.”

Kentucky State’s enrollment was listed at just above 2,220 in Fall of 2020. A move up to Divison I would likely force those students to pay higher athletic fees.

VIRGINIA STATE OFFICIAL: MOVE WOULD REQUIRE FEE RAISE AND ENROLLMENT INCREASE
Virginia State University, according to multiple sources, was contacted by the MEAC about its interest in joining the league after the start of the pandemic. The school has completed a feasibility study, which has yet to be presented to the Board of Visitors.

The school, located in Ettrick, Virginia, has been speculated for years as the next CIAA school to make the jump to Division I via the MEAC. A VSU official tells HBCU Gameday that the money to make the leap is there, thanks in large part to the $30 million gift from MacKenzie Scott. The official also believes the MEAC would waive the conference entrance fee as well. However, there are concerns about the long-term costs of moving up for the university as a whole.

A move up to Division I requires not only the one-time fee, but an upgrade in scholarships in both men’s and women’s sports.

“This feasibility study has shown us a path, but in order to have the athletic budget that we want to be able to compete, we probably have to do both — raise fees and increase enrollment,” the official said.

And the VSU source believes that raising the fees would send the wrong message to the state, and could hurt funding in other ways.


Peggy Davis, VSU’s Director of Athletics, confirmed that the feasibility study had been done. Davis said that it was done to align with VSU’s 2020-2025 strategic plan that calls for defining the department’s brand moving forward.

“Virginia State has been around for a long time. And we want to continue to provide the best opportunities for not only our student-athletes, but our students, our faculty and our staff. So the way to do that, of course, is to complete a feasibility study for continued growth within the athletic program to go along with the growth of the institution.”

Davis wanted to make it clear where the athletics department stands currently.

“We’re fully committed to the CIAA and to NCAA Division II membership.”


SOURCE: CHICAGO STATE WANTS IN, CONFERENCE LUKEWARM
There is one school that is very interested in joining the league, according to a source with knowledge on all three programs. Chicago State is reportedly willing to join the MEAC. CSU is a predominantly black university.

CSU, according to this source, is agreeable to a deal that would make it a full MEAC member for three years. After that time is up, it can either stay on as a full member or move to another conference.

There are two issues that make Chicago State a MEAC long shot. One being its location. It is located securely in the midwest, which would dramatically expand the conference’s footprint. It also does not have a football program.

The MEAC, according to the source, has offered CSU an associate member status in one sport.

HBCU Gameday has reached out to Chicago State officials.

We have reached out to the MEAC for comment regarding expansion.

Taking on schools moving up from D2 to DI has been a mixed bag for the MEAC throughout history. Hampton, with MEAC Commissioner Dr. Dennis Thomas as its AD, successfully made the move in the mid-1990s, followed by Norfolk State. Winston-Salem State and North Carolina Central did the same the following decade, but WSSU eventually discarded its attempt. Savannah State spent a decade looking for a home after leaving the SIAC, eventually spending most of the 2010s in the MEAC before heading back to D2.

The league will lose three key members when Bethune-Cookman, Florida A&M and North Carolina A&T exit on June 30. It will be down to just six football members and will have just four baseball programs as NC Central is disbanding its program.

With re-alignment a reality across the college athletics landscape, things can and are changing quickly. The source tells us that there could be mutual interest between a few current MEAC programs and the American East, which just lost Hartford as it moved to DIII.

With schools having to set future intentions into motion by the end of June, the next few months could prove very hectic, and important to the MEAC’s future.

Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 12, 2021, 12:14:23 AM
NCAA FOOTBALL
The MEAC is Searching Division 2 for Future Members

ByMatthew Dixon
 MAY 11, 2021  College Football, College Football Realignment, College Sports Realignment, Kentucky State Thorobreds, NCAA Football, Realignment, Virginia State Trojans


Rev up the realignment engines because the MEAC is part of the latest college realignment news in what has been an extremely busy week of college athletics news. HBCU Sports is reporting that Kentucky State and Virginia State – both NCAA Division 2 members – are considering a move up to Division to join the MEAC.

The MEAC is an obvious candidate for large-scale expansion after they have seen a mass exodus from its own ranks. The conference has lost five members in the last several years starting with Hampton leaving for the Big South after the 2018 season followed by Savannah State returning to Division 2 a year later. 2020 was a miserable year as the North Carolina A&T announced they will bolt for the Big South while the Florida duo of Bethune-Cookman and Florida A&M announced a move to the SWAC. All three of those programs are leaving in July after the current 2020-21 academic year is completed.


 
The losses have left 8 schools in the conference with only 6 football-playing members. Importantly, the MEAC needs to have at least 6 programs to maintain an automatic qualifier for the FCS Playoffs. Both Kentucky State and Virginia State sponsor football, which would provide a small buffer in case of further defections while also allowing them to consider further expansion. It is important to note that these two schools would not count towards the AQ amount for at least three seasons after they begin the transition to the NCAA Division I level.

With the much-needed context out of the way, let’s provide some analysis of the two schools as well as some other options the MEAC may consider.

The Case for Moving to Division I
Kentucky State – located in Frankfort – is currently a member of the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, which is the same conference that Savannah State joined after leaving the MEAC in 2019. KSU would become the most-western situated program in the conference though not egregiously so. Nevertheless, travel would be less than ideal in the MEAC though they are familiar with that setup as a member of the SIAC.

Virginia State is located in Ettrick and is a member of the Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association and would be located in the middle of the MEAC geographical footprint. The map below shows the MEAC with the two potential members in orange and the 2021-22 membership in blue.




Both schools make sense for the MEAC as they are among the top Division 2 leaders in football attendance, both are public schools, and have comparable enrollment numbers. Below is a table showing total football attendance, average attendance, enrollment, and school type for the MEAC schools as well as Kentucky State and Virginia State.



Show
10
 entriesSearch:
School   Football Attendance
(2019)   Attendance Average   Enrollment   School Type
Coppin State   N/A   N/A   3,400   Public
Delaware State   10,596   1,514   5,045   Public
Howard University   15,317   3,829   10,000   Private
Maryland Eastern Shore   N/A   N/A   3,400   Public
Morgan State   24,074   4,815   7,712   Public
Norfolk State   56,840   11,296   5,500   Public
North Carolina Central   31,674   6,335   10,000   Public
South Carolina State   62,035   10,339   4,500   Public
Kentucky State   18,926   6,309   2,341   Public
Virginia State   27,250   5,450   7,100   PublicShowing 1 to 10 of 10 entriesPreviousNext


As shown in the table, the football attendance numbers would place the two newcomers in the middle part of the conference with potential for higher numbers going forward due to strong attendance numbers the MEAC usually puts up each year. It’s worth noting that neither Coppin State nor Maryland Eastern Shore offers football.

The Case Against Moving to Division I
So what’s the downside? Well, for the schools the cost of jumping up to Division I comes with a hefty price tag of $1.7 million for the NCAA Division I application fee alone. Then there’s the MEAC conference fee, which is reportedly $250,000 though the MEAC would waive the fee for both schools. The D1 fee alone would nearly amount to Kentucky State’s most recent athletic budget of $1.9 million. There’s also the 4-year timeline to becoming a full Division I member after starting the process, which means no sports teams would have access to NCAA postseason tournaments.

Additional money may need to be spent on facilities such as expanding the football stadium. Kentucky State has a football stadium capacity of 6,000 but additional seating would be needed to accommodate the higher MEAC attendance. The same could be said for Virginia State, which has a stadium capacity of roughly 8,000. VSU already has a good basketball arena while KSU would likely need to upgrade its arena a bit.


 
Moving up to D1 also means higher coaching salaries, additional administrative and compliance costs, an increase in scholarships, higher recruiting costs to maintain competitiveness at the D1 level, etc. that need to be factored in. On the flip side, there might be a bump up in donations, sponsorships, giving, and the increased TV/ticket sales revenue. However, given the outlays, would those increases in revenue be enough to justify the move up?

Finally, there is a precedent that moving up from Division 2 into the MEAC tends to end poorly. Morris Brown began a transition in 2002 from the SIAC to what was then referred to as Division I-AA (now FCS) and the MEAC. The college dropped athletics completely after the 2002-03 academic year as it faced numerous troubles.

Winston Salem State tried a similar move starting in the 2007-08 season as they were moving up to Division I from the CIAA. Midway through the transition process, the university announced it was returning to Division II for the 2010-11 season. The Rams cited increased expenses as the reasons for a return to the D2 level.


 
Just as Winston Salem State’s MEAC tenure was drawing to a close, Savannah State was beginning its own adventure. They joined starting with the 2010-11 season and would stay with the conference through the 2018-19 season. Like Morris Brown and WSSU, the Tigers were overwhelmed by the cost of Division I athletics and returned to the SIAC at the Division 2 level.

Other Potential Candidates
For the MEAC, they are in need of members but why not potentially look at other Division I conferences that have also seen membership losses. The Ohio Valley Conference and Southland Conferences have both seen multiple schools leave for the proverbial greener pastures. The OVC will have 10 member schools and 7 football-playing members.

The Southland in particular is in a similar spot to the MEAC as 5 schools will be leaving after the 2020-21 academic year and will have 8 remaining members. Also, like the MEAC, they will have 6 football-playing members making their FCS Playoff AQ status tenuous going forward. There are also plenty of rumors swirling that additional members may be looking to get out.


 
One scenario would be the MEAC poaching teams from the Southland or looking to the OVC for members (or vice versa). There could also be the potential for conferences to fold if additional members cannot be found leaving the current membership of the MEAC, OVC, and Southland to find new homes in this case.

Another scenario, admittedly far-fetched, would be creating a scheduling agreement like the one the ASUN and WAC will have for the 2021 season. In the event that neither conference has the minimum of 6 required members for AQ status, they could have the top 2 teams meet in a championship game to determine the AQ for the FCS Playoffs. This would require the blessing of the NCAA, which is always a gamble. They could also try to petition the NCAA for a waiver of the 6 school minimum though that would not be a viable long-term solution.

Finally, there are other options such as Chicago State desiring a move to the MEAC. We looked at Chicago State’s future options in-depth as they will need to find a new conference after their WAC membership ends in June 2022.

Final Thoughts
It’s understandable why the MEAC would go to D2 to find new members and shore up its ranks. The allure of being a D1 is strong and the MEAC offers an enticement to make those dreams a reality. However, it is still an expensive proposition for the D2 programs based on the Division I application fee alone before getting into all the other increased expenses that come with running a Division I institution.

Of the two teams mentioned in the report, Virginia State makes a lot of sense on paper. They have strong athletics at the D2 level, solid facilities, and sit in a perfect geographical location for the MEAC. However, they are struggling with a deficit near $26 million and declining enrollment numbers. They did get a generous gift of $30 million from MacKenzie Scott, which will help resolve some funding issues.


 
As for Kentucky State, it’s a bit harder to see them move up. Just 5 years ago, they were on the brink of closing due to budget cuts according to the university President. Whether that was hyperbole to receive as much state funding as possible or not, recent events and the pandemic make it even more unlikely they would make the move at this time.

While these two schools may or may not be future MEAC members, it’s good to know that the conference is at least searching for potential candidates. Getting them to commit and succeed at being a full-fledged Division I member is a different matter entirely as history has shown.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Conquero on May 12, 2021, 04:56:41 AM
Miles,

I don't know about the other figures you report, but South Carolina State student enrollment reports below 2000 students.  I am questioning their viability in the MEAC absent a quick turn around in their enrollment.  They do have a high student athletic fee.  Believe it or not SSU was not as overwhelmed as some would have you think.  SSU was able to pay their athletic deficit annually.  SSU just had bad leadership with no vision and politically the rest of the State wanted SSU in DII. 

Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Decks on May 12, 2021, 06:28:08 AM
So which MEAC schools are supposed to be exploring moving to The America's East Conference...according to HBCU Gameday?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: TrueTrojan on May 12, 2021, 06:38:51 AM
Punchy, I don't think the improvements to Rogers Stadium and building baseball and softball facilities on campus had anything to do with going D1. The baseball team used to play in Colonial Heights and the softball team in Ettrick Park. the renovations to the stadium were desperately needed. as far as the MPC, the bulk of that money came from the state of VA and Chesterfield County. even with a brand new facility, attendance for games is hit and miss. People will show up for Union, Bowie, Norfolk (when they came to us), but people aren't coming to see Elizabeth City or Lincoln. the fee to move up is $1.7M. I guess the people that want to make that move, want to take the $ that was donated. where is the $ supposed to come from to fund the other 30 football scholarships to move to FCS level? to pay the additional staff needed for coaches and support staff? Scholarships for the non revenue sports? I would rather spend that donation $ on improving our academic offerings and campus facilities than to join the already in trouble MEAC just so some can puff their chest out and say my school is D1. There's a difference between D1 and HBCU D1
 

Excellent analogy. VSU may be the apple of their eye, but we’re happy where we are and have no reason to leave, especially for the almost defunct MEAC! If one more football playing member of the MEAC leaves (which will probably be Del State which has said they are looking at other options), the MEAC will be dissolved or become a D2 conference as they won’t qualify as a D1. So, that’s why they’re going after Kentucky State! They need a fall back in case VSU says HELL NO, which, I think, they suspect we will since the MEAC has been after us for years and we haven’t budged.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: y04185 on May 12, 2021, 08:21:35 AM
Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.


I agree Fayetteville State isn't ready to move up currently.  Had they made a decision back in 2005 to move, they would be larger, probably bigger than NCCU and have more doctoral programs.  In the span since 2005, UNC-Pembroke has grown by almost 3000 students; and FSU has pretty much been stagnant.  A move to D1 likely would have allowed them to grow.

Albany State has political obstacles, that's true.  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:

You do know that Fayetteville State has nearly 7k students...not too far off from NCCU.

Using that logic Grand Valley should be D1.  In college, student body size has nothing to do with classification.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 12, 2021, 09:18:20 AM
Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.


I agree Fayetteville State isn't ready to move up currently.  Had they made a decision back in 2005 to move, they would be larger, probably bigger than NCCU and have more doctoral programs.  In the span since 2005, UNC-Pembroke has grown by almost 3000 students; and FSU has pretty much been stagnant.  A move to D1 likely would have allowed them to grow.

Albany State has political obstacles, that's true.  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:

You do know that Fayetteville State has nearly 7k students...not too far off from NCCU.

I read around 6200.  I'll gladly accept your correction.  And FSU should be as big as or bigger than NCCU considering their region.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 12, 2021, 09:19:58 AM
So which MEAC schools are supposed to be exploring moving to The America's East Conference...according to HBCU Gameday?

Great question
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 12, 2021, 10:22:02 AM
I agree, as do most of our alumni based on other feedback I've seen since this announcement.  This is a pipe dream for our President who likes to be front and center and take credit for everything, even stuff that happened BEFORE he came to VSU.  This wasn't even under consideration until we received that fat, unrestricted $30m check from MacKenzie Scott so now he wants to blow it moving to D1 and a conference that has no future.  We need to stay put and use that money to fund student scholarships (academic, not athletic) and capital improvements that have been put on the back burner for years. CIAA FOR LIFE!

I said those same things when WSSU tried to move up. Seriously people, very few HBCUs are anywhere close to being true DI schools. We cant recruit the same players and sponsors as PWIs on a consistent bases. The CIAA best sports schools are somewhat competitive at the DII level. Even at the DII level there are plenty of schools that are much larger in enrollment with much larger cash flow. What's the lure of being the poorest schools in the neighborhood?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: FunCkMaster on May 12, 2021, 10:45:46 AM
CHICAGO STATE?
WHO SAID CHICAGO STATE?

The MEAC would be better off getting Coppin
 and UMES to bring back ncaa football cause
 Chicago State has NO football team either
 and is waaaaay OVER THERE!


Folks know they do some serious reaching  ;D


And CAU and Morehouse ain't going anywhere either!  :no:

 :lmao:

Just what I said Jay.

Somebody smokin' that oooooooWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEE!  :lol:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 12, 2021, 10:46:24 AM
Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.


I agree Fayetteville State isn't ready to move up currently.  Had they made a decision back in 2005 to move, they would be larger, probably bigger than NCCU and have more doctoral programs.  In the span since 2005, UNC-Pembroke has grown by almost 3000 students; and FSU has pretty much been stagnant.  A move to D1 likely would have allowed them to grow.

Albany State has political obstacles, that's true.  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:

You do know that Fayetteville State has nearly 7k students...not too far off from NCCU.

Using that logic Grand Valley should be D1.  In college, student body size has nothing to do with classification.

Sidebar;  Grand Valley (and Wayne State too) absolutely should be DI.  They spend 15+ million on athletics.  You ever wonder why they stay near the top of, or win the all-sports trophy every year?   :lol:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 12, 2021, 11:06:35 AM
According to some it sounds like if you’re not a power 5 school or at least upper tier FBS you have no business having an athletic department at your school.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 12, 2021, 11:14:05 AM
According to some it sounds like if you’re not a power 5 school or at least upper tier FBS you have no business having an athletic department at your school.

No such thing as a low-major.    :shrug:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: punchy on May 12, 2021, 12:49:02 PM
CHICAGO STATE?
WHO SAID CHICAGO STATE?

The MEAC would be better off getting Coppin
 and UMES to bring back ncaa football cause
 Chicago State has NO football team either
 and is waaaaay OVER THERE!


Folks know they do some serious reaching  ;D


And CAU and Morehouse ain't going anywhere either!  :no:

Actually, this makes perfect sense. I believe that St. Aug and Shaw brought their football teams back because the CIAA mandated each university field a football team, so maybe the MEAC should do the same.

Currently,,,,,,,,
We got 6 football playing members.
We got 8 overall sports playing members.
We'll be alright as long as nobody else leaves.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: westcoastaggie on May 12, 2021, 12:50:53 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: FunCkMaster on May 12, 2021, 02:27:48 PM
CHICAGO STATE?
WHO SAID CHICAGO STATE?

The MEAC would be better off getting Coppin
 and UMES to bring back ncaa football cause
 Chicago State has NO football team either
 and is waaaaay OVER THERE!


Folks know they do some serious reaching  ;D


And CAU and Morehouse ain't going anywhere either!  :no:

Actually, this makes perfect sense. I believe that St. Aug and Shaw brought their football teams back because the CIAA mandated each university field a football team, so maybe the MEAC should do the same.

Currently,,,,,,,,
We got 6 football playing members.
We got 8 overall sports playing members.
We'll be alright as long as nobody else leaves.

Coppin State made a run at football a while back. They even had a new turf field and were playing as a club team, as did UMES. Both of those attempts unfortunately ran out of steam.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jay_Thomas on May 12, 2021, 02:34:41 PM
I know Coppin and UMES have [or had as of recent] club football teams.  But you want to add a school who 1) currently does not have football and 2) is so out of the footprint of the conference that travel costs will increase? 3) You want to bank on 2 D2 schools POSSIBLY moving to FCS level by waiving your $250K fee...meanwhile that $1.7million fee still remains?

I know you cannot MAKE a school fund a football program, but the meac should have been strongly encouraging UMES and Coppin to bring back their football programs....but, I digress.  Just expressing my 2 cents just like everyone else.

It will be whatever its gonna be and I will still support US/OURS regardless.  ;)

Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 12, 2021, 03:26:13 PM
According to some it sounds like if you’re not a power 5 school or at least upper tier FBS you have no business having an athletic department at your school.

No such thing as a low-major.    :shrug:

Never said it was. I used the term power 5. From some of the comments I’ve read some make it seem if you’re not at the power 5 level you shouldn’t be D1. You can make that same argument on the D2/D3 levels. This especially when you take into account that no one outside of a handful of power 5’s makes a profit on Athletics regardless of division.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ncsiacfan on May 12, 2021, 04:16:07 PM
Kentucky State University and the University of Maryland Eastern Shore are about the size of Morehouse with Coppin State being slightly larger. I can see why the MEAC would want Kentucky State. They had a good year in 2019 and at least they are established athletically. The MEAC has a year to explore. Then they had better go after Fayetteville State University.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 12, 2021, 05:11:28 PM
According to some it sounds like if you’re not a power 5 school or at least upper tier FBS you have no business having an athletic department at your school.

No such thing as a low-major.    :shrug:

Never said it was. I used the term power 5. From some of the comments I’ve read some make it seem if you’re not at the power 5 level you shouldn’t be D1. You can make that same argument on the D2/D3 levels. This especially when you take into account that no one outside of a handful of power 5’s makes a profit on Athletics regardless of division.

I was being sarcastic.   I agree with you. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 12, 2021, 05:16:08 PM
Kentucky State University and the University of Maryland Eastern Shore are about the size of Morehouse with Coppin State being slightly larger. I can see why the MEAC would want Kentucky State. They had a good year in 2019 and at least they are established athletically. The MEAC has a year to explore. Then they had better go after Fayetteville State University.

Oh no.  Not Fayetteville State!  😂
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Golden Kitten on May 12, 2021, 06:02:13 PM
Neither Wayne nor Grand Valley will be moving any time soon... :no:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: FunCkMaster on May 12, 2021, 07:08:18 PM
Kentucky State University and the University of Maryland Eastern Shore are about the size of Morehouse with Coppin State being slightly larger. I can see why the MEAC would want Kentucky State. They had a good year in 2019 and at least they are established athletically. The MEAC has a year to explore. Then they had better go after Fayetteville State University.

Oh no.  Not Fayetteville State!  😂

 :lol:

Ain't gonna happen captain...(No shade to FSU).
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ncsiacfan on May 12, 2021, 07:14:11 PM
I am not advocating it. I am saying who is in need and who is available.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Que82 on May 12, 2021, 07:14:45 PM
Miles,

I don't know about the other figures you report, but South Carolina State student enrollment reports below 2000 students.  I am questioning their viability in the MEAC absent a quick turn around in their enrollment.  They do have a high student athletic fee.  Believe it or not SSU was not as overwhelmed as some would have you think.  SSU was able to pay their athletic deficit annually.  SSU just had bad leadership with no vision and politically the rest of the State wanted SSU in DII.
Last number I saw was 2155 undergrads
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EPJr on May 12, 2021, 08:02:31 PM
Virginia State makes a lot of sense.

no it don't
nice internet candy
but highly unlikely
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 12, 2021, 08:58:49 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 12, 2021, 10:53:51 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .  :lol:  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Decks on May 13, 2021, 07:42:36 AM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

VSU would be a natural fit if they are ready. Not sure about KSU. If they are serious both schools should probably reach out to nccu to get their business model on moving up. Out of the last four hbcu’s (nccu,SSU, wssu, MB) to make the jump only the eagles were able to sustain.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jafus [Thinker] on May 13, 2021, 09:05:17 AM
Just for clarification and informational purposes such consulting studies do not advocate one way or the other regarding making a move in reclassifying or staying the courses due to legality issues. They only provide a benefit needs analysis for reclassifying or staying the course in the same classification.

For the most part, this decision is led by an extremely small contingent of individuals either or jointly by a president/chancellor and or a select number of board members, although extremely rare, there are some circumstances that an athletics director/vice president of athletics has a strong sway on such a move.

Lastly, it has very little to do with historical context or current success of an overall athletic program or a specific sports program or the public’s general thoughts on an institution’s financial viability. It generally is based on a select group of individuals as mentioned above and whether they believe it is in the best interest of the institution to make the move or if that group believes it is not. If they believe it does, then they will use the study to justify the move and if they don’t, then they will use the same study to justify not making move.

Take it for what it is worth, nothing more or nothing less. I was asked to post and share this information by one of our posting colleagues and a good friend of mine. With that said, I hope all are doing well during these challenging times. #TakeCare #StayStrong #StaySafe
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: westcoastaggie on May 13, 2021, 09:08:25 AM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .  :lol:  :popcorn:

I wonder what NCCU's future study will say?  :tiptoe:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jay_Thomas on May 13, 2021, 09:17:40 AM
Wassup, Brother Jafus. Good to see you on here, sir.  ;)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 13, 2021, 09:22:52 AM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .  :lol:  :popcorn:

I wonder what NCCU's future study will say?  :tiptoe:
Just messy for no reason.  Right now, 17M or bust.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 13, 2021, 12:11:22 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

Don't do too much wishing about WSSU. We are not crazy.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 13, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Jafus just drop the Mic and walked out the room. :nod: :lol: Tune in to his youtube show every Tuesday call Dr. Cavil's Inside the HBCU Sports Lab. Here is the link to this past Tuesday's show www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrI4O89rz1g
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: csugrad on May 13, 2021, 12:44:03 PM
Wow. I guess I didn’t pay attention to his signature because I didn’t know that Jafus is Dr. Cavil. I always tune into his show on YouTube.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 13, 2021, 12:47:51 PM
Love his show
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 13, 2021, 12:48:22 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .  :lol:  :popcorn:

I wonder what NCCU's future study will say?  :tiptoe:

Right cause ummmmm..............
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 13, 2021, 01:38:13 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .  :lol:  :popcorn:

I wonder what NCCU's future study will say?  :tiptoe:

Right cause ummmmm..............



Says the school that's begging MEAC schools to play them... :no:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jafus [Thinker] on May 13, 2021, 01:41:51 PM
Wassup, Brother Jafus. Good to see you on here, sir.  ;)

Brother Jay! I’m good and staying busy like the rest of us. Thanks for the acknowledgment.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Platinum_Sound on May 13, 2021, 01:42:42 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .  :lol:  :popcorn:

I wonder what NCCU's future study will say?  :tiptoe:

Right cause ummmmm..............



Says the school that's begging MEAC schools to play them... :no:


If that is the case...didn't your school say yes?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jafus [Thinker] on May 13, 2021, 01:44:12 PM
Wow. I guess I didn’t pay attention to his signature because I didn’t know that Jafus is Dr. Cavil. I always tune into his show on YouTube.

CSUGrad,

Thanks for supporting the show.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jafus [Thinker] on May 13, 2021, 01:46:04 PM
Love his show

Professor,

Thanks for supporting the show.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 13, 2021, 01:47:40 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 13, 2021, 01:51:38 PM
Right Bluedog. :nod:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 13, 2021, 01:52:38 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .  :lol:  :popcorn:

I wonder what NCCU's future study will say?  :tiptoe:

Right cause ummmmm..............



Says the school that's begging MEAC schools to play them... :no:

Don't be mad at us for your AD not committing to the MEAC long term in your Board of Trustee Meeting on 2/24/21. We will see what she says in June
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 13, 2021, 01:54:06 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .  :lol:  :popcorn:

I wonder what NCCU's future study will say?  :tiptoe:

Right cause ummmmm..............



Says the school that's begging MEAC schools to play them... :no:


If that is the case...didn't your school say yes?

For 10 years at that. And currently negotiating to play in every sport we both carry to include a home and home every year in basketball.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 13, 2021, 01:55:04 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .  :lol:  :popcorn:

I wonder what NCCU's future study will say?  :tiptoe:

Right cause ummmmm..............



Says the school that's begging MEAC schools to play them... :no:


If that is the case...didn't your school say yes?



We felt sorry for them. :tongue2:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 13, 2021, 04:52:51 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .    :popcorn:

I wonder what NCCU's future study will say?  :tiptoe:

Right cause ummmmm..............



Says the school that's begging MEAC schools to play them... :no:


If that is the case...didn't your school say yes?



We felt sorry for them. :tongue2:
Y'all tickle the hell out me. Reminds me of us and our ugly cousins in the northern part of Louisiana going at it. (https://media4.giphy.com/media/Q7ozWVYCR0nyW2rvPW/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7hrmiyns3uomifirfass3jvnehs0o9t1kkf5dzxad&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: colapanther13 on May 13, 2021, 08:36:35 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same MEAC that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the MEAC’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 13, 2021, 08:56:01 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same Big South that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the Big South’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.

 :shrug:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 13, 2021, 09:52:18 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same Big South that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the Big South’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.

 :shrug:


I was thinking the exact same thing.  VSU, do the thing! 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 13, 2021, 10:16:06 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same MEAC that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the MEAC’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.
Dude, that would be the point of joining the meac. They bring immediate stability to the conference and in turn they immediately get a major cash reduction in travel. While at the same time get an increase in revenue and scholarships. Last time I checked D2 doesn't have a bowl game. As a matter of fact no other conference in FCS other than the SWAC/MEAC has a bowl game with a $2mil payout.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 13, 2021, 10:26:24 PM
Are we really concerned about VSU's financial state or we just don't want them to make that move?  They did the study and I guess they will move or don't move according to that study.  I'm not mad if they do or don't.  Having VSU, NSU, and Central in the same conference would be nice.  Add Winston and it would be even better.  Just wishing.

The study is going to suggest that they reclassify.  They always do. .    :popcorn:
Lol......nah that's not exactly true.   Lol
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: colapanther13 on May 13, 2021, 10:35:17 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same MEAC that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the MEAC’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.
Dude, that would be the point of joining the meac. They bring immediate stability to the conference and in turn they immediately get a major cash reduction in travel. While at the same time get an increase in revenue and scholarships. Last time I checked D2 doesn't have a bowl game. As a matter of fact no other conference in FCS other than the SWAC/MEAC has a bowl game with a $2mil payout.

They wouldn’t be bringing stability to the conference if other schools are still thinking about leaving. And unless I’m miscalculating in my head, the travel would be about the same.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JBROB on May 13, 2021, 10:47:38 PM
Maybe Hampton moves back to the MEAC.  The MEAC should also invite Western Carolina.  Kentucky State should seek membership in the Ohio Valley Conference.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: colapanther13 on May 13, 2021, 11:16:56 PM
Maybe Hampton moves back to the MEAC.  The MEAC should also invite Western Carolina.  Kentucky State should seek membership in the Ohio Valley Conference.

Western Carolina would be an intriguing choice. WCU has one of the top band programs in the country but their style is a dramatic departure from what we’re used to seeing in the HBCU band world.

I’m not so sure the folks up in Cullowhee would feel comfortable welcoming but so many of us in their town at a time.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: punchy on May 13, 2021, 11:27:28 PM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same MEAC that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the MEAC’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.
Dude, that would be the point of joining the meac. They bring immediate stability to the conference and in turn they immediately get a major cash reduction in travel. While at the same time get an increase in revenue and scholarships. Last time I checked D2 doesn't have a bowl game. As a matter of fact no other conference in FCS other than the SWAC/MEAC has a bowl game with a $2mil payout.

They wouldn’t be bringing stability to the conference if other schools are still thinking about leaving. And unless I’m miscalculating in my head, the travel would be about the same.

What make you think other schools would still be thinking about leaving if other schools joined the MEAC?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: colapanther13 on May 14, 2021, 12:00:04 AM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same MEAC that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the MEAC’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.
Dude, that would be the point of joining the meac. They bring immediate stability to the conference and in turn they immediately get a major cash reduction in travel. While at the same time get an increase in revenue and scholarships. Last time I checked D2 doesn't have a bowl game. As a matter of fact no other conference in FCS other than the SWAC/MEAC has a bowl game with a $2mil payout.

They wouldn’t be bringing stability to the conference if other schools are still thinking about leaving. And unless I’m miscalculating in my head, the travel would be about the same.

What make you think other schools would still be thinking about leaving if other schools joined the MEAC?

That would depend on whether or not the other schools left just to save on travel like they said, or there’s something else going on.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 12:23:19 AM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same MEAC that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the MEAC’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.
Dude, that would be the point of joining the meac. They bring immediate stability to the conference and in turn they immediately get a major cash reduction in travel. While at the same time get an increase in revenue and scholarships. Last time I checked D2 doesn't have a bowl game. As a matter of fact no other conference in FCS other than the SWAC/MEAC has a bowl game with a $2mil payout.

They wouldn’t be bringing stability to the conference if other schools are still thinking about leaving. And unless I’m miscalculating in my head, the travel would be about the same.

What make you think other schools would still be thinking about leaving if other schools joined the MEAC?

That would depend on whether or not the other schools left just to save on travel like they said, or there’s something else going on.
Sorry but that makes no sense. Why would other schools leave the MEAC to avoid travel. I mean other than DSU they are sitting pretty good and last I heard DSU was turn down or turned down an invite. Depending on who's telling the story.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 12:25:34 AM
Maybe Hampton moves back to the MEAC.  The MEAC should also invite Western Carolina.  Kentucky State should seek membership in the Ohio Valley Conference.
Lol.... even removed from the MEAC. Y'all still pushing that Kumbaya conference dream.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: colapanther13 on May 14, 2021, 12:49:16 AM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same MEAC that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the MEAC’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.
Dude, that would be the point of joining the meac. They bring immediate stability to the conference and in turn they immediately get a major cash reduction in travel. While at the same time get an increase in revenue and scholarships. Last time I checked D2 doesn't have a bowl game. As a matter of fact no other conference in FCS other than the SWAC/MEAC has a bowl game with a $2mil payout.

They wouldn’t be bringing stability to the conference if other schools are still thinking about leaving. And unless I’m miscalculating in my head, the travel would be about the same.

What make you think other schools would still be thinking about leaving if other schools joined the MEAC?

That would depend on whether or not the other schools left just to save on travel like they said, or there’s something else going on.
Sorry but that makes no sense. Why would other schools leave the MEAC to avoid travel. I mean other than DSU they are sitting pretty good and last I heard DSU was turn down or turned down an invite. Depending on who's telling the story.

So then the question remains. If not for travel, why have so many schools left the MEAC? If I’m VSU, I want to know if I’m seriously considering joining.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 14, 2021, 02:07:25 AM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same MEAC that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the MEAC’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.
Dude, that would be the point of joining the meac. They bring immediate stability to the conference and in turn they immediately get a major cash reduction in travel. While at the same time get an increase in revenue and scholarships. Last time I checked D2 doesn't have a bowl game. As a matter of fact no other conference in FCS other than the SWAC/MEAC has a bowl game with a $2mil payout.

They wouldn’t be bringing stability to the conference if other schools are still thinking about leaving. And unless I’m miscalculating in my head, the travel would be about the same.

What make you think other schools would still be thinking about leaving if other schools joined the MEAC?

That would depend on whether or not the other schools left just to save on travel like they said, or there’s something else going on.
Sorry but that makes no sense. Why would other schools leave the MEAC to avoid travel. I mean other than DSU they are sitting pretty good and last I heard DSU was turn down or turned down an invite. Depending on who's telling the story.

So then the question remains. If not for travel, why have so many schools left the MEAC? If I’m VSU, I want to know if I’m seriously considering joining.

I believe you and Bluedog are talking about two different time periods.  You are talking about the past, whereas Bluedog is talking about the present.  Presently, MEAC schools are in good shape when it comes to travel, since most of the conference's remaining schools are fairly close, which wasn't the case when SSU and the two Florida schools where members.  Also, since the MEAC wasn't successful in establishing a two divisional conference (North and South), the past situation is the MAIN reason why Hampton and NCA&T left.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JBROB on May 14, 2021, 05:24:02 AM
Maybe Hampton moves back to the MEAC.  The MEAC should also invite Western Carolina.  Kentucky State should seek membership in the Ohio Valley Conference.
Lol.... even removed from the MEAC. Y'all still pushing that Kumbaya conference dream.

I want to see the MEAC continue.  If they are not proactive, the teams will find other homes.  There is no need to bank on Va State, Chicago, and Kentucky moving up.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: colapanther13 on May 14, 2021, 06:36:21 AM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same MEAC that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the MEAC’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.
Dude, that would be the point of joining the meac. They bring immediate stability to the conference and in turn they immediately get a major cash reduction in travel. While at the same time get an increase in revenue and scholarships. Last time I checked D2 doesn't have a bowl game. As a matter of fact no other conference in FCS other than the SWAC/MEAC has a bowl game with a $2mil payout.

They wouldn’t be bringing stability to the conference if other schools are still thinking about leaving. And unless I’m miscalculating in my head, the travel would be about the same.

What make you think other schools would still be thinking about leaving if other schools joined the MEAC?

That would depend on whether or not the other schools left just to save on travel like they said, or there’s something else going on.
Sorry but that makes no sense. Why would other schools leave the MEAC to avoid travel. I mean other than DSU they are sitting pretty good and last I heard DSU was turn down or turned down an invite. Depending on who's telling the story.

So then the question remains. If not for travel, why have so many schools left the MEAC? If I’m VSU, I want to know if I’m seriously considering joining.

I believe you and Bluedog are talking about two different time periods.  You are talking about the past, whereas Bluedog is talking about the present.  Presently, MEAC schools are in good shape when it comes to travel, since most of the conference's remaining schools are fairly close, which wasn't the case when SSU and the two Florida schools where members.  Also, since the MEAC wasn't successful in establishing a two divisional conference (North and South), the past situation is the MAIN reason why Hampton and NCA&T left.

Gotcha. Well if the alumni are as strongly opposed to this as indications on this thread would suggest, I’d be surprised to see VSU move ahead with this.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: TrueTrojan on May 14, 2021, 07:16:20 AM
The vote on VSU’s Alumni websites indicate overwhelmingly “NO!”
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: BisonBlu on May 14, 2021, 07:54:40 AM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same Big South that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the Big South’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.

 :shrug:


I was thinking the exact same thing.  VSU, do the thing! 
  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:
The MEAC should not expand pass SC.  SC was the southern most part of the MEAC footprint in 1971 and truthfully should have never expanded pass that.  GA and FL are in the SWAC's footprint.  Geographically and culturally. 

VSU is the prize here, but Kentucky State has to be considered because of the dire situation the MEAC is in.  Besides added costs for D1 membership, travel would be about the same, plus they could play money football and basketball games against FBS teams in-state and in the Midwest.

I think that you are spot on with this. However, I think that the addition of VSU and KSU alone would still fall a bit short.  And with a long shot move to pull WVSU and Central State the MEAC could actually come out really well.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 14, 2021, 08:21:59 AM
The vote on VSU’s Alumni websites indicate overwhelmingly “NO!”

Any word on how the student body and young alumni feel?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 14, 2021, 08:37:46 AM
Do you all think this was the recommendation of the consultant the MEAC was supposed to have hired
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Decks on May 14, 2021, 08:49:24 AM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same Big South that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the Big South’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.

 :shrug:


I was thinking the exact same thing.  VSU, do the thing! 
  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:
The MEAC should not expand pass SC.  SC was the southern most part of the MEAC footprint in 1971 and truthfully should have never expanded pass that.  GA and FL are in the SWAC's footprint.  Geographically and culturally. 

VSU is the prize here, but Kentucky State has to be considered because of the dire situation the MEAC is in.  Besides added costs for D1 membership, travel would be about the same, plus they could play money football and basketball games against FBS teams in-state and in the Midwest.

I think that you are spot on with this. However, I think that the addition of VSU and KSU alone would still fall a bit short.  And with a long shot move to pull WVSU and Central State the MEAC could actually come out really well.

VSU would be a natural fit but I don't see how KSU would be able to afford the move? Title IX would become a huge issue for them. Adding more scholarships for football would only make it worse. They would probably have to drop men's golf and volleyball  while adding more sports and scholarships on the ladies side. That in turn will drive up travel costs. If they make the move most of their out of conference football and basketball games would probably have to consist almost exclusively of money games.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: VSUTrojanFan on May 14, 2021, 09:05:20 AM
The majority of the alumni and the Booster Club is not in favor of making the move.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 14, 2021, 09:06:36 AM
Lets be honest here. More than any of the schools that left the MEAC, A&T in the last 10 years has been the heart and soul of the conference. They were the one school that everyone else saw as a rivalry game. Now the MEAC is struggling to find its self again. Trying to get schools that are not ready for DI to move up won't work. They will move back down to DII because they are not DI schools. The MEAC should continue with the schools they have and let their growth come over a period of time naturally. This over reaction is going to kill them.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: colapanther13 on May 14, 2021, 09:08:34 AM
The vote on VSU’s Alumni websites indicate overwhelmingly “NO!”

Any word on how the student body and young alumni feel?

I think a better question would be: does their opinion even matter? Young alumni usually dodge those calls from their alma mater asking for money so...
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Platinum_Sound on May 14, 2021, 09:21:41 AM
Lets be honest here. More than any of the schools that left the MEAC, A&T in the last 10 years has been the heart and soul of the conference. They were the one school that everyone else saw as a rivalry game. Now the MEAC is struggling to find its self again. Trying to get schools that are not ready for DI to move up won't work. They will move back down to DII because they are not DI schools. The MEAC should continue with the schools they have and let their growth come over a period of time naturally. This over reaction is going to kill them.

Damn....I agree with you for once? Let me go get a powerball  :lol:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 09:26:06 AM
The vote on VSU’s Alumni websites indicate overwhelmingly “NO!”
How many casted votes?  Three?  Three thousand?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Platinum_Sound on May 14, 2021, 09:29:27 AM
The vote on VSU’s Alumni websites indicate overwhelmingly “NO!”

Any word on how the student body and young alumni feel?
,

Those that I've spoken with have also said no and are wondering where this is coming from.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 09:35:19 AM


Lets be honest here. More than any of the schools that left the MEAC, A&T in the last 10 years has been the heart and soul of the conference. They were the one school that everyone else saw as a rivalry game. Now the MEAC is struggling to find its self again. Trying to get schools that are not ready for DI to move up won't work. They will move back down to DII because they are not DI schools. The MEAC should continue with the schools they have and let their growth come over a period of time naturally. This over reaction is going to kill them.

I can't  say that I agree with this. We have no evidence of the conference struggling. They  haven't even had a season yet under the new alignment. Personally I think it's going to be more positive than a lot of folks are assuming. I'm going to paraphrase what someone said early "you notice nobody ever said that A&T is saving the Big South?" Well do you notice nobody ever said the Big South was struggling?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ALMIGHTY on May 14, 2021, 10:55:19 AM
I can't  say that I agree with this. We have no evidence of the conference struggling. They  haven't even had a season yet under the new alignment. Personally I think it's going to be more positive than a lot of folks are assuming.
:nod:

Expansion is ideal, but retention is the key for the remaining schools.  That's the pink elephant in the room.  I know for a fact that one school has a plan in place to leave if the other schools waiver on their commitment to remain.  This isn't internet wishful thinking barbershop talk like most of the stuff we read on these message boards. This is etched in stone and I and several other posters have seen/heard the plan from the people who will implement it if the MEAC falls.  So that one school is good either way. However, its preference is the MEAC.





Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 14, 2021, 10:55:41 AM


Lets be honest here. More than any of the schools that left the MEAC, A&T in the last 10 years has been the heart and soul of the conference. They were the one school that everyone else saw as a rivalry game. Now the MEAC is struggling to find its self again. Trying to get schools that are not ready for DI to move up won't work. They will move back down to DII because they are not DI schools. The MEAC should continue with the schools they have and let their growth come over a period of time naturally. This over reaction is going to kill them.

I can't  say that I agree with this. We have no evidence of the conference struggling. They  haven't even had a season yet under the new alignment. Personally I think it's going to be more positive than a lot of folks are assuming. I'm going to paraphrase what someone said early "you notice nobody ever said that A&T is saving the Big South?" Well do you notice nobody ever said the Big South was struggling?

To me, losing five schools is struggling.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ALMIGHTY on May 14, 2021, 10:58:24 AM
The MEAC should continue with the schools they have and let their growth come over a period of time naturally.
If the MEAC can continue with the schools they have, there won't be a need for expansion.  As I said earlier, the original MEAC had 7 members total.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 14, 2021, 11:01:37 AM
I can't  say that I agree with this. We have no evidence of the conference struggling. They  haven't even had a season yet under the new alignment. Personally I think it's going to be more positive than a lot of folks are assuming.
:nod:

Expansion is ideal, but retention is the key for the remaining schools.  That's the pink elephant in the room.  I know for a fact that one school has a plan in place to leave if the other schools waiver on their commitment to remain.  This isn't internet wishful thinking barbershop talk like most of the stuff we read on these message boards. This is etched in stone and I and several other posters have seen/heard the plan from the people who will implement it if the MEAC falls.  So that one school is good either way. However, its preference is the MEAC.

Whew, but i can't blame anyone for having options at this point
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: AimHigh on May 14, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
I can't  say that I agree with this. We have no evidence of the conference struggling. They  haven't even had a season yet under the new alignment. Personally I think it's going to be more positive than a lot of folks are assuming.
:nod:

Expansion is ideal, but retention is the key for the remaining schools.  That's the pink elephant in the room.  I know for a fact that one school has a plan in place to leave if the other schools waiver on their commitment to remain.  This isn't internet wishful thinking barbershop talk like most of the stuff we read on these message boards. This is etched in stone and I and several other posters have seen/heard the plan from the people who will implement it if the MEAC falls.  So that one school is good either way. However, its preference is the MEAC.

What is SC State's plan.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 14, 2021, 11:05:39 AM
The MEAC should continue with the schools they have and let their growth come over a period of time naturally.
If the MEAC can continue with the schools they have, there won't be a need for expansion.  As I said earlier, the original MEAC had 7 members total.

You could be right. They just need to not do anything for a while and make some moves later if needed after the dust has settled.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: AimHigh on May 14, 2021, 11:07:58 AM
Timing couldn’t be worse. I think some of you are forgetting that we’re still in a pandemic. This is definitely not the time to make the jump to D1, with or without that generous donation from the former Mrs. Amazon.  It’s fun to talk about it, but don’t look for it to actually happen.

And Chicago State and Kentucky State? Now that’s just comical.
Um.....maybe you haven't  notice but the economy is booming and mandates are being lifted. We are far from the middle of the pandemic.  I'd even go as far as saying that we are on the backend of it.
Mandates are being lifted and the economy is improving but there’s still a good bit of uncertainty as to  how much longer COVID will linger over us.

But why should any school join the same Big South that so many other schools have left or are trying to leave? Are we just going to ignore the fact that the Big South’s future is still up in the air? The CIAA is definitely the more stable conference.

 :shrug:


I was thinking the exact same thing.  VSU, do the thing! 
  But the MEAC brass should have been recruiting them as soon as they were forced to merge.  Who knows, maybe they were already recruiting them.   :shrug:
The MEAC should not expand pass SC.  SC was the southern most part of the MEAC footprint in 1971 and truthfully should have never expanded pass that.  GA and FL are in the SWAC's footprint.  Geographically and culturally. 

VSU is the prize here, but Kentucky State has to be considered because of the dire situation the MEAC is in.  Besides added costs for D1 membership, travel would be about the same, plus they could play money football and basketball games against FBS teams in-state and in the Midwest.

I think that you are spot on with this. However, I think that the addition of VSU and KSU alone would still fall a bit short.  And with a long shot move to pull WVSU and Central State the MEAC could actually come out really well.

VSU would be a natural fit but I don't see how KSU would be able to afford the move? Title IX would become a huge issue for them. Adding more scholarships for football would only make it worse. They would probably have to drop men's golf and volleyball  while adding more sports and scholarships on the ladies side. That in turn will drive up travel costs. If they make the move most of their out of conference football and basketball games would probably have to consist almost exclusively of money games.

The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 11:08:03 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.
Y'all  just determine to save you some white folks huh? Lol
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: AimHigh on May 14, 2021, 11:09:51 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.
Y'all  just determine to save you some white folks huh? Lol

Ya'll just determined to destroy Black folks in Jackson, Mississippi even if it helps us all. ::)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 11:10:07 AM




Lets be honest here. More than any of the schools that left the MEAC, A&T in the last 10 years has been the heart and soul of the conference. They were the one school that everyone else saw as a rivalry game. Now the MEAC is struggling to find its self again. Trying to get schools that are not ready for DI to move up won't work. They will move back down to DII because they are not DI schools. The MEAC should continue with the schools they have and let their growth come over a period of time naturally. This over reaction is going to kill them.

I can't  say that I agree with this. We have no evidence of the conference struggling. They  haven't even had a season yet under the new alignment. Personally I think it's going to be more positive than a lot of folks are assuming. I'm going to paraphrase what someone said early "you notice nobody ever said that A&T is saving the Big South?" Well do you notice nobody ever said the Big South was struggling?

To me, losing five schools is struggling.


Let me see if I can get the back of the room to hear me.

"Well do you notice nobody ever said the Big South was struggling?"
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 14, 2021, 11:10:28 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.

That will never happen and would be a disaster for balck colleges, even outside of the MEAC. Integration in America's past has not worked out the way it should have. Our culture always gets watered down and we lose what little we have gained. Besides, some Big South fans will never step on A&Ts and Hamptons campuses.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 11:12:39 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.
Y'all  just determine to save you some white folks huh? Lol

Ya'll just determined to destroy Black folks in Jackson, Mississippi even if it helps us all. ::)
lmao..... OK I see, today is going to be the "Let's see how much dumb chit I can post today" day. Lol... So do elaborate just what am I jealous of?
Boy this outta be good.(https://media2.giphy.com/media/Zd1BUb0qs6nwjeMUBu/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd74ab9c9q2jvvptbdlhrpp2ml3g3b5ya08jhpyyovm&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 14, 2021, 11:13:21 AM




Lets be honest here. More than any of the schools that left the MEAC, A&T in the last 10 years has been the heart and soul of the conference. They were the one school that everyone else saw as a rivalry game. Now the MEAC is struggling to find its self again. Trying to get schools that are not ready for DI to move up won't work. They will move back down to DII because they are not DI schools. The MEAC should continue with the schools they have and let their growth come over a period of time naturally. This over reaction is going to kill them.

I can't  say that I agree with this. We have no evidence of the conference struggling. They  haven't even had a season yet under the new alignment. Personally I think it's going to be more positive than a lot of folks are assuming. I'm going to paraphrase what someone said early "you notice nobody ever said that A&T is saving the Big South?" Well do you notice nobody ever said the Big South was struggling?

To me, losing five schools is struggling.


Let me see if I can get the back of the room to hear me.

"Well do you notice nobody ever said the Big South was struggling?"

I think we don't say the Big South is struggling on this forum because we really don't care about what their needs are. But I would guess that the Big South message boards are saying they are struggling... and they are.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: AimHigh on May 14, 2021, 11:13:45 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.

That will never happen and would be a disaster for balck colleges, even outside of the MEAC. Integration in America's past has not worked out the way it should have. Our culture always gets watered down and we lose what little we have gained. Besides, some Big South fans will never step on A&Ts and Hamptons campuses.

If you look at high schools, black high schools that have preserved their historic character in intergrated "conferences" have fared well and even dominated. It is when the school itself is watered down where we have seen the fallout.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ALMIGHTY on May 14, 2021, 11:14:22 AM
https://richmond.com/sports/college/division-i-meac-interest-in-vsu-trojans-committed-to-dii-and-ciaa-according-to-ad/article_92ae1e22-d2cb-502e-afdf-2cd05e209a78.html (https://richmond.com/sports/college/division-i-meac-interest-in-vsu-trojans-committed-to-dii-and-ciaa-according-to-ad/article_92ae1e22-d2cb-502e-afdf-2cd05e209a78.html)

“I have not spoken with anyone from the MEAC regarding Division I."
-Peggy Davis

As Jafus said, a study was done to look at the feasibility of such a move.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 11:15:51 AM




Lets be honest here. More than any of the schools that left the MEAC, A&T in the last 10 years has been the heart and soul of the conference. They were the one school that everyone else saw as a rivalry game. Now the MEAC is struggling to find its self again. Trying to get schools that are not ready for DI to move up won't work. They will move back down to DII because they are not DI schools. The MEAC should continue with the schools they have and let their growth come over a period of time naturally. This over reaction is going to kill them.

I can't  say that I agree with this. We have no evidence of the conference struggling. They  haven't even had a season yet under the new alignment. Personally I think it's going to be more positive than a lot of folks are assuming. I'm going to paraphrase what someone said early "you notice nobody ever said that A&T is saving the Big South?" Well do you notice nobody ever said the Big South was struggling?

To me, losing five schools is struggling.


Let me see if I can get the back of the room to hear me.

"Well do you notice nobody ever said the Big South was struggling?"

I think we don't say the Big South is struggling on this forum because we really don't care about what their needs are. But I would guess that the Big South message boards are saying they are struggling... and they are.
Nah.... it's because we're brainwashed to always view what we have as a negative. I mean hasn't that been your position since the exodus in the meac?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 14, 2021, 11:17:21 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.
Y'all  just determine to save you some white folks huh? Lol

I agree. Can't understand why we always want to give them everything we have. We can't get them to give us a job or to keep their police from killing, but yet we will give them our heart and souls.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 11:20:48 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.

That will never happen and would be a disaster for balck colleges, even outside of the MEAC. Integration in America's past has not worked out the way it should have. Our culture always gets watered down and we lose what little we have gained. Besides, some Big South fans will never step on A&Ts and Hamptons campuses.

If you look at high schools, black high schools that have preserved their historic character in intergrated "conferences" have fared well and even dominated. It is when the school itself is watered down where we have seen the fallout.
If you look at real life. Black families that left their own neighborhoods instead of building on what their parents bleed and sweat for. Always got swallowed up and their old neighborhoods crumpled. Only to be taken over by the same people they went chasing after to be like.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 11:23:33 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.
Y'all  just determine to save you some white folks huh? Lol

Ya'll just determined to destroy Black folks in Jackson, Mississippi even if it helps us all. ::)
lmao..... OK I see, today is going to be the "Let's see how much dumb chit I can post today" day. Lol... So do elaborate just what am I jealous of?
Boy this outta be good.(https://media2.giphy.com/media/Zd1BUb0qs6nwjeMUBu/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd74ab9c9q2jvvptbdlhrpp2ml3g3b5ya08jhpyyovm&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
@AimHigh.  Well?(https://media2.giphy.com/media/Zd1BUb0qs6nwjeMUBu/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7dgmbraa18sgqw0nrki0zbubg2p8jfk8l6achuaoa&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: AimHigh on May 14, 2021, 11:28:23 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.

That will never happen and would be a disaster for balck colleges, even outside of the MEAC. Integration in America's past has not worked out the way it should have. Our culture always gets watered down and we lose what little we have gained. Besides, some Big South fans will never step on A&Ts and Hamptons campuses.

If you look at high schools, black high schools that have preserved their historic character in intergrated "conferences" have fared well and even dominated. It is when the school itself is watered down where we have seen the fallout.
If you look at real life. Black families that left their own neighborhoods instead of building on what their parents bleed and sweat for. Always got swallowed up and their old neighborhoods crumpled. Only to be taken over by the same people they went chasing after to be like.

We are talking about college athletics and institutional affiliation, not Blacks living in American suburbs. But if you want to use real life analogy, there were always Blacks on the plantation who sought to subvert the efforts of Blacks who fought to get us off the plantation or take over the plantation. That is what I see with some of the SWAC/Jackson hate. If we want to keep it true Black, Africa and the Caribbean are our only option, where we ACTUALLY OWN IT. Otherwise, you are just "pretending" to own something in Baton Rouge and Winston-Salem that the man leased to you for over-priced rent and terms set to always keep you behind. There are three winning options: To make their success inseparable from our succes in America, for us to look to Africa, or both. Let's have a Southern/Howard collaboration in AFRICA.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 11:32:15 AM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.

That will never happen and would be a disaster for balck colleges, even outside of the MEAC. Integration in America's past has not worked out the way it should have. Our culture always gets watered down and we lose what little we have gained. Besides, some Big South fans will never step on A&Ts and Hamptons campuses.

If you look at high schools, black high schools that have preserved their historic character in intergrated "conferences" have fared well and even dominated. It is when the school itself is watered down where we have seen the fallout.
If you look at real life. Black families that left their own neighborhoods instead of building on what their parents bleed and sweat for. Always got swallowed up and their old neighborhoods crumpled. Only to be taken over by the same people they went chasing after to be like.

We are talking about college athletics and institutional affiliation, not blacks living in suburbs. But if you want to use real life analogy, there were always blacks on the plantation who sought to subert the efforts of blacks who fought to get off of the plantation or take over the plantation. That is what I see with some of the SWAC/Jackson hate. If we want to keep it all Black, Africa or the Caribbean is our best option not a segregated America.
The fact that you just  equated your inheritance pass down by your parents to a plantation. Speaks volumes about the effects of indoctrination.

I rest my case.


Oh now you can finish telling us just what it is I'm jealous of JSU about, and how I have this  diabolical plan to take them down(https://media2.giphy.com/media/Zd1BUb0qs6nwjeMUBu/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7dgmbraa18sgqw0nrki0zbubg2p8jfk8l6achuaoa&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 14, 2021, 12:08:38 PM
https://richmond.com/sports/college/division-i-meac-interest-in-vsu-trojans-committed-to-dii-and-ciaa-according-to-ad/article_92ae1e22-d2cb-502e-afdf-2cd05e209a78.html (https://richmond.com/sports/college/division-i-meac-interest-in-vsu-trojans-committed-to-dii-and-ciaa-according-to-ad/article_92ae1e22-d2cb-502e-afdf-2cd05e209a78.html)

“I have not spoken with anyone from the MEAC regarding Division I."
-Peggy Davis

As Jafus said, a study was done to look at the feasibility of such a move.

She could be bluffing or she could be stating facts. We shall see
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: AimHigh on May 14, 2021, 12:55:06 PM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.

That will never happen and would be a disaster for balck colleges, even outside of the MEAC. Integration in America's past has not worked out the way it should have. Our culture always gets watered down and we lose what little we have gained. Besides, some Big South fans will never step on A&Ts and Hamptons campuses.

If you look at high schools, black high schools that have preserved their historic character in intergrated "conferences" have fared well and even dominated. It is when the school itself is watered down where we have seen the fallout.
If you look at real life. Black families that left their own neighborhoods instead of building on what their parents bleed and sweat for. Always got swallowed up and their old neighborhoods crumpled. Only to be taken over by the same people they went chasing after to be like.

We are talking about college athletics and institutional affiliation, not Blacks living in American suburbs. But if you want to use real life analogy, there were always Blacks on the plantation who sought to subvert the efforts of Blacks who fought to get us off the plantation or take over the plantation. That is what I see with some of the SWAC/Jackson hate. If we want to keep it true Black, Africa and the Caribbean are our only option, where we ACTUALLY OWN IT. Otherwise, you are just "pretending" to own something in Baton Rouge and Winston-Salem that the man leased to you for over-priced rent and terms set to always keep you behind. There are three winning options: To make their success inseparable from our succes in America, for us to look to Africa, or both. Let's have a Southern/Howard collaboration in AFRICA.
The fact that you just  equated your inheritance pass down by your parents to a plantation. Speaks volumes about the effects of indoctrination.

I rest my case.


Oh now you can finish telling us just what it is I'm jealous of JSU about, and how I have this  diabolical plan to take them down(https://media2.giphy.com/media/Zd1BUb0qs6nwjeMUBu/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7dgmbraa18sgqw0nrki0zbubg2p8jfk8l6achuaoa&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

Some people get some things, and not other things. It's okay just think about it. Speaking of indoctrination, your "case" is not to prosecute me my "brother" man, I am not "the enemy."
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: westcoastaggie on May 14, 2021, 12:55:51 PM
The vote on VSU’s Alumni websites indicate overwhelmingly “NO!”

Any word on how the student body and young alumni feel?

And what's the word on the ones that really have sway: the BOT?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 14, 2021, 01:04:27 PM
The best option for the MEAC and Big South are merger.

That will never happen and would be a disaster for balck colleges, even outside of the MEAC. Integration in America's past has not worked out the way it should have. Our culture always gets watered down and we lose what little we have gained. Besides, some Big South fans will never step on A&Ts and Hamptons campuses.

If you look at high schools, black high schools that have preserved their historic character in intergrated "conferences" have fared well and even dominated. It is when the school itself is watered down where we have seen the fallout.
If you look at real life. Black families that left their own neighborhoods instead of building on what their parents bleed and sweat for. Always got swallowed up and their old neighborhoods crumpled. Only to be taken over by the same people they went chasing after to be like.

We are talking about college athletics and institutional affiliation, not Blacks living in American suburbs. But if you want to use real life analogy, there were always Blacks on the plantation who sought to subvert the efforts of Blacks who fought to get us off the plantation or take over the plantation. That is what I see with some of the SWAC/Jackson hate. If we want to keep it true Black, Africa and the Caribbean are our only option, where we ACTUALLY OWN IT. Otherwise, you are just "pretending" to own something in Baton Rouge and Winston-Salem that the man leased to you for over-priced rent and terms set to always keep you behind. There are three winning options: To make their success inseparable from our succes in America, for us to look to Africa, or both. Let's have a Southern/Howard collaboration in AFRICA.
The fact that you just  equated your inheritance pass down by your parents to a plantation. Speaks volumes about the effects of indoctrination.

I rest my case.


Oh now you can finish telling us just what it is I'm jealous of JSU about, and how I have this  diabolical plan to take them down(https://media2.giphy.com/media/Zd1BUb0qs6nwjeMUBu/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7dgmbraa18sgqw0nrki0zbubg2p8jfk8l6achuaoa&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

Some people get some things, and not other things. It's okay just think about it. Speaking of indoctrination, your "case" is not to prosecute me my "brother" man, I am not "the enemy."
Ohhhh.... So now I'm your brother. Just a few minutes ago I was plotting to destroy the school in Mississippi and the plantation negro. Now by some work of wizardry I'm your brother. Lol...

Man this is some entertaining chit  today and I just happen to be all for it today too. I'm still anxiously awaiting for you to tell everyone about my diabolical plot to destroy JSU. (https://media3.giphy.com/media/tyqcJoNjNv0Fq/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7oiks77omhfxlzlig8h6j0kp8z7711ridlkiz8tfn&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: oleschoolaggie on May 14, 2021, 02:51:35 PM

For the most part, this decision is led by an extremely small contingent of individuals either or jointly by a president/chancellor and or a select number of board members.

Lastly, it has very little to do with historical context or current success of an overall athletic program or a specific sports program or the public’s general thoughts on an institution’s financial viability. It generally is based on a select group of individuals as mentioned above and whether they believe it is in the best interest of the institution to make the move or if that group believes it is not. If they believe it does, then they will use the study to justify the move and if they don’t, then they will use the same study to justify not making move.

thank you!!  been trying to tell folk this for years!!  yet, they want me to believe that the decision was made by a "bogus" athletics assessment committee.  our decision to join the big south was primarily made by our chancellor, not no doggone athletics assessment committee.

this decision caused tremendous "damage" to an hbcu 50 year old "institution" called the meac and i clearly do not support that decision...
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 14, 2021, 03:56:51 PM
The vote on VSU’s Alumni websites indicate overwhelmingly “NO!”

Any word on how the student body and young alumni feel?

I think a better question would be: does their opinion even matter? Young alumni usually dodge those calls from their alma mater asking for money so...

Students will bear the brunt of increased student athletic fees.  You better have some buy-in or your institution may face some lawsuits.

As for young alumni; it’s an important constituency as they are future and current season ticket holders and donators. Canvassing those two communities is mission critical. 

Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 14, 2021, 09:29:12 PM
Reading these posts, I have the feeling that VSU joining the MEAC is not about to happen.  It's cool if they don't.  I am just hoping that no other school leaves anytime soon. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: BisonBlu on May 15, 2021, 10:04:45 AM
Reading these posts, I have the feeling that VSU joining the MEAC is not about to happen.  It's cool if they don't.  I am just hoping that no other school leaves anytime soon.

I think that everyone has this feeling too. But if things stay the same and the MEAC is not able to find creative ways to bring in revenue to its membership we could additional moves coming sooner than later.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 15, 2021, 11:58:16 AM
Reading these posts, I have the feeling that VSU joining the MEAC is not about to happen.  It's cool if they don't.  I am just hoping that no other school leaves anytime soon.

I think that everyone has this feeling too. But if things stay the same and the MEAC is not able to find creative ways to bring in revenue to its membership we could additional moves coming sooner than later.

Won't we see significant cost savings from reduced travel?  Cost savings is just as good as new revenue streams.  That money can be reallocated. 

Some additional questions are:

How does the MEAC generate some of the highest revenues among low-major/FCS conferences, and yet the membership doesn't receive enough?  The MEAC office has distributed money to member institutions for nearly two decades.  Not every similarly positioned conference can make that claim.

How much more does the membership believe they need from the conference in order to keep themselves viable?

Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ALMIGHTY on May 15, 2021, 12:28:12 PM
Let's wait and see what the new look 2021-2022 MEAC bring.  I'm optimistic. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 15, 2021, 12:42:03 PM
Reading these posts, I have the feeling that VSU joining the MEAC is not about to happen.  It's cool if they don't.  I am just hoping that no other school leaves anytime soon.

I think that everyone has this feeling too. But if things stay the same and the MEAC is not able to find creative ways to bring in revenue to its membership we could additional moves coming sooner than later.

Won't we see significant cost savings from reduced travel?  Cost savings is just as good as new revenue streams.  That money can be reallocated. 

Some additional questions are:

How does the MEAC generate some of the highest revenues among low-major/FCS conferences, and yet the membership doesn't receive enough?  The MEAC office has distributed money to member institutions for nearly two decades.  Not every similarly positioned conference can make that claim.

How much more does the membership believe they need from the conference in order to keep themselves viable?


Yea, I got lost about the need to bring in new revenue streams.  I didn't think the MEAC was hurting financially. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: vuu06 on May 15, 2021, 12:52:52 PM
I can understand the MEAC going after Virginia State as it's probably the largest school enrollment wise in the CIAA.  I figured it was going to happen after VSU opened their convocation center..... No offense to either school but if they are not successful in raising money and getting the alumni fan base to contribute it will be a failed attempt.  I wish them all the best if they chose to do so. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ncsiacfan on May 15, 2021, 12:58:59 PM
At 6,000 students the biggest is Fayetteville State University. That is why I suggested them as a possible addition.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 16, 2021, 02:28:10 AM
Reading these posts, I have the feeling that VSU joining the MEAC is not about to happen.  It's cool if they don't.  I am just hoping that no other school leaves anytime soon.

I think that everyone has this feeling too. But if things stay the same and the MEAC is not able to find creative ways to bring in revenue to its membership we could additional moves coming sooner than later.

Won't we see significant cost savings from reduced travel?  Cost savings is just as good as new revenue streams.  That money can be reallocated. 

Some additional questions are:

How does the MEAC generate some of the highest revenues among low-major/FCS conferences, and yet the membership doesn't receive enough?  The MEAC office has distributed money to member institutions for nearly two decades.  Not every similarly positioned conference can make that claim.

How much more does the membership believe they need from the conference in order to keep themselves viable?
I don't  have dog in this fight. But I think this is another case of over estimating what real revenue that is brought in.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 16, 2021, 03:10:22 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 16, 2021, 04:49:31 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.
.(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oKIP8kNuTJJL3zT0I/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7gri40k2fia4e9y651p74bqzewy7gx81ktvkcd8ga&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Decks on May 16, 2021, 06:44:23 PM
Reading these posts, I have the feeling that VSU joining the MEAC is not about to happen.  It's cool if they don't.  I am just hoping that no other school leaves anytime soon.

I don't know how serious they are but from a location standpoint VSU would be an ideal fit for the MEAC.
Imo, the MEAC Council of Presidents should waive any entrance fee and make them immediately eligible for all conference championships to sweeten the pot. In fact I'd go so far as say they should even assist in VSU paying the $1.1 mil ncaa application fee.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 16, 2021, 09:59:48 PM
Reading these posts, I have the feeling that VSU joining the MEAC is not about to happen.  It's cool if they don't.  I am just hoping that no other school leaves anytime soon.

I don't know how serious they are but from a location standpoint VSU would be an ideal fit for the MEAC.
Imo, the MEAC Council of Presidents should waive any entrance fee and make them immediately eligible for all conference championships to sweeten the pot. In fact I'd go so far as say they should even assist in VSU paying the $1.1 mil ncaa application fee.
Why are you worrying about the MEAC business?(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oKIP8kNuTJJL3zT0I/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7h5sswdo3svpnu48i8u6riuntgscuos3yu4jmgqm8&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 16, 2021, 10:49:36 PM
Reading these posts, I have the feeling that VSU joining the MEAC is not about to happen.  It's cool if they don't.  I am just hoping that no other school leaves anytime soon.

I don't know how serious they are but from a location standpoint VSU would be an ideal fit for the MEAC.
Imo, the MEAC Council of Presidents should waive any entrance fee and make them immediately eligible for all conference championships to sweeten the pot. In fact I'd go so far as say they should even assist in VSU paying the $1.1 mil ncaa application fee.

Would be smart for them to do
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 16, 2021, 11:52:03 PM
Boy these last two post are hilarious as hell.(https://media3.giphy.com/media/fs0r5olknYHjFB703e/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7gd9kynx8fy4da8jktt689g3n7dlpshk4nhd3eilo&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Decks on May 17, 2021, 01:16:44 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: BisonBlu on May 17, 2021, 07:13:47 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

We can all understand the concern. The cost of scholarships alone would be an additional $1.4M (in-state) to VSU's expenses line annually, before travel and additional staff.  But if VSU could be the host site of a few conference championships (basketball, track, volleyball, softball) they could leverage the state, city, chamber of commerce for addition support.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 17, 2021, 08:25:11 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

Its not just the operating costs that's bad, its knowing that the best your sports teams can do is .500..... forever! Who in their right mind volunteer to be a nobody forever?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 17, 2021, 08:28:40 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

We can all understand the concern. The cost of scholarships alone would be an additional $1.4M (in-state) to VSU's expenses line annually, before travel and additional staff.  But if VSU could be the host site of a few conference championships (basketball, track, volleyball, softball) they could leverage the state, city, chamber of commerce for addition support.

Not including that they would double or triple their dollar amount in money games.  They could easily take a short drive to UVA or VTech and collect a big check. Even North Carolina, Duke, North Carolina State, and Maryland would be a short drive for them. A good coach would use money games as a learning experience for himself and his entire staff, which should improve the school's program. And in due time, if he's good enough, he might be able to pull off an Appalachia State over Mighty Michigan and still collect a fat check.  But I'm sure most would rather play it safe and remain stuck at the DII level for life and even consider dropping down to the DIII level if the heat becomes too unbearable at the DII level.  Somehow I keep seeing the words 'COMPLACENT', 'REGRESS', and satisfied with the STATUS QUO in these discussions, which is anti-ACADEMIA.  As educated people, we have to do better.  Also, quick fixes and gimmicks are not the answers to growing and improving programs.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 17, 2021, 09:21:23 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

We can all understand the concern. The cost of scholarships alone would be an additional $1.4M (in-state) to VSU's expenses line annually, before travel and additional staff.  But if VSU could be the host site of a few conference championships (basketball, track, volleyball, softball) they could leverage the state, city, chamber of commerce for addition support.

Not including that they would double or triple their dollar amount in money games.  They could easily take a short drive to UVA or VTech and collect a big check. Even North Carolina, Duke, North Carolina State, and Maryland would be a short drive for them. A good coach would use money games as a learning experience for himself and his entire staff, which should improve the school's program. And in due time, if he's good enough, he might be able to pull off an Appalachia State over Mighty Michigan and still collect a fat check.  But I'm sure most would rather play it safe and remain stuck at the DII level for life and even consider dropping down to the DIII level if the heat becomes too unbearable at the DII level.  Somehow I keep seeing the words 'COMPLACENT', 'REGRESS', and satisfied with the STATUS QUO in these discussions, which is anti-ACADEMIA.  As educated people, we have to do better.  Also, quick fixes and gimmicks are not the answers to growing and improving programs.

There are tons of great academy schools that does not see the need to pretend that they are sports schools. Besides, HBCUs are not like any schools in any division. So we should not try to mimic them and try to be something we can't afford to be. HBCUs are the backbone of communities that the rest of America don't see as mainstream. Our trying to pretend that they see us as mainstream is, in my opinion, ridiculous. We are special and should act that way. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 17, 2021, 09:34:02 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

We can all understand the concern. The cost of scholarships alone would be an additional $1.4M (in-state) to VSU's expenses line annually, before travel and additional staff.  But if VSU could be the host site of a few conference championships (basketball, track, volleyball, softball) they could leverage the state, city, chamber of commerce for addition support.

Not including that they would double or triple their dollar amount in money games.  They could easily take a short drive to UVA or VTech and collect a big check. Even North Carolina, Duke, North Carolina State, and Maryland would be a short drive for them. A good coach would use money games as a learning experience for himself and his entire staff, which should improve the school's program. And in due time, if he's good enough, he might be able to pull off an Appalachia State over Mighty Michigan and still collect a fat check.  But I'm sure most would rather play it safe and remain stuck at the DII level for life and even consider dropping down to the DIII level if the heat becomes too unbearable at the DII level.  Somehow I keep seeing the words 'COMPLACENT', 'REGRESS', and satisfied with the STATUS QUO in these discussions, which is anti-ACADEMIA.  As educated people, we have to do better.  Also, quick fixes and gimmicks are not the answers to growing and improving programs.

There are tons of great academy schools that does not see the need to pretend that they are sports schools. Besides, HBCUs are not like any schools in any division. So we should not try to mimic them and try to be something we can't afford to be. HBCUs are the backbone of communities that the rest of America don't see as mainstream. Our trying to pretend that they see us as mainstream is, in my opinion, ridiculous. We are special and should act that way.

Where did I type to MIMIC them??? I guess using our academic knowledge to grow and enhance our athletic programs is like mimicking others or like some of our brothers and sisters who didn't attend college would say, "trying to be WHITE."  Again, being complacent and happy with the status quo is anti-ACADEMIA.  We must do better as so-called EDUCATED individuals. This is a prime example of us being 50% of our own problems.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 17, 2021, 09:43:13 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jay_Thomas on May 17, 2021, 09:57:24 AM
After 13 pages, I need a drank   :nod:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 17, 2021, 10:25:44 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Professor on May 17, 2021, 10:43:51 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

Great point. Meanwhile our peers are moving up without issue ( See list below )

Dixie State
Tarleton State
North Alabama
LIU
Merrimack
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 17, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 17, 2021, 12:34:18 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 17, 2021, 12:52:14 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ‘87 Alum on May 17, 2021, 01:04:23 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.

Yeah, funding is essential to short and long term fiscal viability. Can’t overlook the impact of that state funding engine as seed capital as well.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 17, 2021, 01:09:23 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 17, 2021, 01:18:13 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.

Yeah, funding is essential to short and long term fiscal viability. Can’t overlook the impact of that state funding engine as seed capital as well.

Yes the State of Alabama was/is a big plus as a funding source, but do you think the state would have funded the same amount if its public HBCUs remained DII???
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ‘87 Alum on May 17, 2021, 01:43:50 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.

Yeah, funding is essential to short and long term fiscal viability. Can’t overlook the impact of that state funding engine as seed capital as well.

Yes the State of Alabama was/is a big plus as a funding source, but do you think the state would have funded the same amount if the its public HBCUs remained DII???

Not sure as I wasn’t closely monitoring it back then. I’m sure there is still a funding gap for State and A&M vs South Alabama, Troy and other comparably sized state schools. I would love to be wrong on that....

I wouldn’t expect and knowing damn well they ain’t funding HBCU’s at the same level of a UAB, Auburn or Alabama.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 17, 2021, 02:52:52 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

I'm pretty sure Alabama State, Alabama A&M, and UAPB can vouch for that as well. Alabama State has some of the nicest facilities in ALL of DI FCS, which became possible for them once they moved up to the DI level.  They probably could have gotten a new football stadium at the DII level, but not quite as nice and as big.

Yeah, funding is essential to short and long term fiscal viability. Can’t overlook the impact of that state funding engine as seed capital as well.

Yes the State of Alabama was/is a big plus as a funding source, but do you think the state would have funded the same amount if the its public HBCUs remained DII???

Not sure as I wasn’t closely monitoring it back then. I’m sure there is still a funding gap for State and A&M vs South Alabama, Troy and other comparably sized state schools. I would love to be wrong on that....

I wouldn’t expect and knowing damn well they ain’t funding HBCU’s at the same level of a UAB, Auburn or Alabama.

I'm pretty sure you are correct, but that's a topic for a different conversation.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 18, 2021, 08:23:44 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.

True!
I have to give A&T some credit on their campus looking like a P5 school... even I hate doing so. To me they are what an HBCU DI campus should look like. I don't see that with any CIAA school. WSSU is the closest and we are so much behind them in campus facilities that it ain't funny. We look like an really good DII campus, but not DI. Overall, the money has not been spent on research and graduate facilities to make any CIAA school DI. Also, VSU needs some major upgrades to their athletic facilities to even think about being competitive at the DI level. It was the same with WSSU when we attempted the move.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 18, 2021, 08:32:47 AM
Hold up, now schools have to upgrade their academic facilities in order to move up to the DI level. Any ole excuse to remain in that non-progressive comfort zone.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 18, 2021, 08:51:33 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 18, 2021, 09:21:48 AM
Hold up, now schools have to upgrade their academic facilities in order to move up to the DI level. Any ole excuse to remain in that non-progressive comfort zone.

Sure they have to upgrade their academic facilities. There has to be something worth moving up to other than sports, to which we can't compete. We should take advantage of all the benefits that comes with a move to DI. The NCCU poster was making some good points about the benefits of moving up, other than just sports. Like student population growth, campus facilities, and much more. These are the only benifits that I think making the move is worth. Otherwise, we would be making a move to get beat down for nothing.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 18, 2021, 10:05:30 AM
Hold up, now schools have to upgrade their academic facilities in order to move up to the DI level. Any ole excuse to remain in that non-progressive comfort zone.

Sure they have to upgrade their academic facilities. There has to be something worth moving up to other than sports, to which we can't compete. We should take advantage of all the benefits that comes with a move to DI. The NCCU poster was making some good points about the benefits of moving up, other than just sports. Like student population growth, campus facilities, and much more. These are the only benifits that I think making the move is worth. Otherwise, we would be making a move to get beat down for nothing.

What rule says that a school has to upgrade their academic facilities to compete at the DI level???  LSU probably ranks in the top 5 when it comes to athletic facilities, but its academic programs fall way short of being anywhere near the top 5.  Even some of your previous posts imply that one has nothing to do with the other, especially when you compared academic programs at Ivy League schools to academic programs at SEC schools. And what the NCCU poster really said is that he noticed an accelerated growth in his school's entire profile AFTER moving up to the DI level, which has nothing do with upgrading academic facilities PRIOR to moving up to the DI level. One can makeup tons of excuses, but there's no justification for regressive thinking at institutions of higher learning.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: westcoastaggie on May 18, 2021, 10:40:10 AM
After 13 pages, I need a drank   :nod:

I just want to know what the KEY stakeholders and the VSU BOT think about this potential move? If admins listened to Alumni, the MEAC would've never formulated in the first place.

Imagine a CIAA with 24 teams?

 :shrug:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 18, 2021, 10:48:47 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.

True!
I have to give A&T some credit on their campus looking like a P5 school... even I hate doing so. To me they are what an HBCU DI campus should look like. I don't see that with any CIAA school. WSSU is the closest and we are so much behind them in campus facilities that it ain't funny. We look like an really good DII campus, but not DI. Overall, the money has not been spent on research and graduate facilities to make any CIAA school DI. Also, VSU needs some major upgrades to their athletic facilities to even think about being competitive at the DI level. It was the same with WSSU when we attempted the move.

NCAT has been on a hot streak, them being the land grant HBCU in NC gives them a leg up on research dollars, land acquisition etc. They also have the leadership that can leverage all areas of the institution. That starts with a vision and plan of execution.

WSSU can be whatever it wants to be but that starts with a plan, leadership and all parties & stakeholders  moving in the same direction. I don’t think VSU is too far off facilities wise that can’t be remedied in the near future. You don’t need a 50k Seat stadium to be effective in D1. You need your fans & alumni supporting what’s currently in place. Basketball is already taken care of and their non revenue sports are in solid shape.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: westcoastaggie on May 18, 2021, 11:05:08 AM
An Eagle and a Ram giving Aggies some positive words.

Astounding!

 :blush:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 18, 2021, 11:10:30 AM
An Eagle and a Ram giving Aggies some positive words.

Astounding!

 :blush:

Don’t push it...  :vomit:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 18, 2021, 11:30:30 AM
After 13 pages, I need a drank   :nod:

I just want to know what the KEY stakeholders and the VSU BOT think about this potential move? If admins listened to Alumni, the MEAC would've never formulated in the first place.

Imagine a CIAA with 24 teams?

 :shrug:
I remember
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 18, 2021, 11:41:20 AM
From earlier in the thread

Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.

Also, A&T looks like a DI HBCU because they have been a DI HBCU for forty years.   :shrug:

I believe that D1 membership will result in a windfall of enrollment for VSU.  Possibly up to 1000 or more students in the next five years.  Sidebar: The majority of VSU's institutional peers are DI members (including two current MEAC members), so a push to join DI may also be connected to aligning with their peers.

Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: punchy on May 18, 2021, 11:42:02 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.

True!
I have to give A&T some credit on their campus looking like a P5 school... even I hate doing so. To me they are what an HBCU DI campus should look like. I don't see that with any CIAA school. WSSU is the closest and we are so much behind them in campus facilities that it ain't funny. We look like an really good DII campus, but not DI. Overall, the money has not been spent on research and graduate facilities to make any CIAA school DI. Also, VSU needs some major upgrades to their athletic facilities to even think about being competitive at the DI level. It was the same with WSSU when we attempted the move.

When is the last time you visited VSU's campus?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 18, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
An Eagle and a Ram giving Aggies some positive words.

Astounding!

 :blush:

In this case ya'll deserve it!
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 18, 2021, 12:58:46 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.

True!
I have to give A&T some credit on their campus looking like a P5 school... even I hate doing so. To me they are what an HBCU DI campus should look like. I don't see that with any CIAA school. WSSU is the closest and we are so much behind them in campus facilities that it ain't funny. We look like an really good DII campus, but not DI. Overall, the money has not been spent on research and graduate facilities to make any CIAA school DI. Also, VSU needs some major upgrades to their athletic facilities to even think about being competitive at the DI level. It was the same with WSSU when we attempted the move.

When is the last time you visited VSU's campus?

A few years ago WSSU played them in football on their campus. Their campus looks really good. But when was the last time you been on A&Ts or WSSU's campuses? To me, being DI is more than sports. If HBCUs move up to take advantage of the higher prestige and what it brings, then I'm 100% for it. In most states the governments don't want our school to become DI because DI brings a higher price tag for facilities, faculty, and more. It also brings competition for grants and research money. Maybe the State of North Carolina
has bought into the idea of A&T being a DI school. Their campus and programs are exploding. If we can't do that other stuff, and just focus on sports its not worth it.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 18, 2021, 01:48:45 PM
I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 18, 2021, 02:45:55 PM
I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.

I was not saying you have to already have all the facilities in place to move to DI, but you should be headed in that direction. Also, the facilities that I'm speaking of is not sports related. Classrooms, labs, libraries, parking garages, and etc. LSU is competitive in everything they do, HBCUs are not. If we are going to make a move to be DI, we should get something out of it  and not just a bunch of butt whippings. The goal should always to be competitive and advancement of our people. If we can't win on the fields, then we should win on the our campuses. Increase enrollments, facilities, endowments is worth some butt whoppings but to a point. If all we want to do is call ourselves DI we're stupid.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 18, 2021, 03:16:17 PM
I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.

I was not saying you have to already have all the facilities in place to move to DI, but you should be headed in that direction. Also, the facilities that I'm speaking of is not sports related. Classrooms, labs, libraries, parking garages, and etc. LSU is competitive in everything they do, HBCUs are not. If we are going to make a move to be DI, we should get something out of it  and not just a bunch of butt whippings. The goal should always to be competitive and advancement of our people. If we can't win on the fields, then we should win on the our campuses. Increase enrollments, facilities, endowments is worth some butt whoppings but to a point. If all we want to do is call ourselves DI we're stupid.

Vanderbilt doesn't mind being the whipping boy of the SEC, which I doubt that they would leave the SEC for another conference. Just being in the SEC brings them plenty of exposure and tons of money.  But using your logic, they should step down a few levels in order to compete.  And I bet schools like Tulane University in New Orleans wish they were still in the SEC.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 18, 2021, 03:47:03 PM
I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.

I was not saying you have to already have all the facilities in place to move to DI, but you should be headed in that direction. Also, the facilities that I'm speaking of is not sports related. Classrooms, labs, libraries, parking garages, and etc. LSU is competitive in everything they do, HBCUs are not. If we are going to make a move to be DI, we should get something out of it  and not just a bunch of butt whippings. The goal should always to be competitive and advancement of our people. If we can't win on the fields, then we should win on the our campuses. Increase enrollments, facilities, endowments is worth some butt whoppings but to a point. If all we want to do is call ourselves DI we're stupid.

Vanderbilt doesn't mind being the whipping boy of the SEC, which I doubt that they would leave the SEC for another conference. Just being in the SEC brings them plenty of exposure and tons of money.  But using your logic, they should step down a few levels in order to compete.  And I bet schools like Tulane University in New Orleans wish they were still in the SEC.
Biggest mistake they ever made
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 18, 2021, 04:51:27 PM
I guess schools like LSU should drop down from the DI level, since their athletic programs generate way more than their academic programs.  LSU's endowment is least than Howard University's endowment, but one would never think that if comparing each school's athletic profile.  If done right, athletics would enhance a school's entire profile, but it's rarely the other way around. And waiting on some state government to fund and grow academic programs so that a school can move up to the DI level is not going to happen. For example, Alabama A&M (basketball arena) and Alabama State (football statium) are just now getting facilities that are comparable to other DI programs.  And as long as Prairie View has been DI, they are also just now fulfilling those requirements. Basically, athletics typically doesn't have to rely on academics, but in most cases, academics will more than likely benefit due to the upgrades of a school's athletic programs.

I was not saying you have to already have all the facilities in place to move to DI, but you should be headed in that direction. Also, the facilities that I'm speaking of is not sports related. Classrooms, labs, libraries, parking garages, and etc. LSU is competitive in everything they do, HBCUs are not. If we are going to make a move to be DI, we should get something out of it  and not just a bunch of butt whippings. The goal should always to be competitive and advancement of our people. If we can't win on the fields, then we should win on the our campuses. Increase enrollments, facilities, endowments is worth some butt whoppings but to a point. If all we want to do is call ourselves DI we're stupid.

Vanderbilt doesn't mind being the whipping boy of the SEC, which I doubt that they would leave the SEC for another conference. Just being in the SEC brings them plenty of exposure and tons of money.  But using your logic, they should step down a few levels in order to compete.  And I bet schools like Tulane University in New Orleans wish they were still in the SEC.
Biggest mistake they ever made

A mistake that kept them from being the National Champions the year their football team went undefeated, which led to the creation of the National Championship Game.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Conquero on May 20, 2021, 12:41:30 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

I think you are correct about travel expenses.  But I believe that applied across the board for the entire MEAC conference, which is why you are seeing the exodus.  I believe many school admin's tried to convince the MEAC to relax the travel and move to a truly North/South Division and the MEAC was reluctant. 

But it was more than that for SSU.  SSU had the lowest student athletic fee in the MEAC at $300 per semester and the Georgia Board of Regents felt that was too high.  There were some MEAC schools where student Athletic fees was well over $1k a semester for students.  In addition, SSU suffered from a horrible brain drain in leadership across the board which resulted in inadequate to no planning and vision for the institution's future.   

SSU is finally stabilizing again with decent leadership in the newly appointed President who has served as interim for 2 years.  KUDOS to the new President who is doing a fine job thus far.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: oleschoolaggie on May 20, 2021, 01:13:20 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

I think you are correct about travel expenses.  But I believe that applied across the board for the entire MEAC conference, which is why you are seeing the exodus.  I believe many school admin's tried to convince the MEAC to relax the travel and move to a truly North/South Division and the MEAC was reluctant. 

But it was more than that for SSU.  SSU had the lowest student athletic fee in the MEAC at $300 per semester and the Georgia Board of Regents felt that was too high.  There were some MEAC schools where student Athletic fees was well over $1k a semester for students.  In addition, SSU suffered from a horrible brain drain in leadership across the board which resulted in inadequate to no planning and vision for the institution's future.   

SSU is finally stabilizing again with decent leadership in the newly appointed President who has served as interim for 2 years.  KUDOS to the new President who is doing a fine job thus far.

the success or failure to "persevere" at the d1 level for hbcu's really boils down to each institution's "leadership" more than anything else.  i'm really tired of folk using "travel costs" as an excuse to struggle at that level.

a&t has been a member of the meac "uninterrupted" for the last "50 years"!  if "travel costs" were the main issue for a&t leaving, then why did it take "50 years" to do so?  a&t could've easily stayed in the ciaa 50 years ago or anytime thereafter if that were the case.  same for all of the other "original" members of the meac as well.

this thing is all about "leadership" from the top.  the only difference between "27 game losing streak" a&t, versus the "3 time" consecutive bcf national champion a&t, is "LEADERSHIP" from the top...
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 20, 2021, 01:30:43 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

I think you are correct about travel expenses.  But I believe that applied across the board for the entire MEAC conference, which is why you are seeing the exodus.  I believe many school admin's tried to convince the MEAC to relax the travel and move to a truly North/South Division and the MEAC was reluctant. 

But it was more than that for SSU.  SSU had the lowest student athletic fee in the MEAC at $300 per semester and the Georgia Board of Regents felt that was too high.  There were some MEAC schools where student Athletic fees was well over $1k a semester for students.  In addition, SSU suffered from a horrible brain drain in leadership across the board which resulted in inadequate to no planning and vision for the institution's future.   

SSU is finally stabilizing again with decent leadership in the newly appointed President who has served as interim for 2 years.  KUDOS to the new President who is doing a fine job thus far.

the success or failure to "persevere" at the d1 level for hbcu's really boils down to each institution's "leadership" more than anything else.  i'm really tired of folk using "travel costs" as an excuse to struggle at that level.

a&t has been a member of the meac "uninterrupted" for the last "50 years"!  if "travel costs" were the main issue for a&t leaving, then why did it take "50 years" to do so?  a&t could've easily stayed in the ciaa 50 years ago or anytime thereafter if that were the case.  same for all of the other "original" members of the meac as well.

this thing is all about "leadership" from the top.  the only difference between "27 game losing streak" a&t, versus the "3 time" consecutive bcf national champion a&t, is "LEADERSHIP" from the top...

Everybody knows it was never truly about travel costs with A&T. I especially agree with your statement about individual institutional leadership.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Warpaint on May 20, 2021, 02:46:17 PM
From earlier in the thread

Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.

Also, A&T looks like a DI HBCU because they have been a DI HBCU for forty years.   :shrug:

I believe that D1 membership will result in a windfall of enrollment for VSU.  Possibly up to 1000 or more students in the next five years.  Sidebar: The majority of VSU's institutional peers are DI members (including two current MEAC members), so a push to join DI may also be connected to aligning with their peers.

Hasn't Norfolk State lost thousands of students in their enrollment numbers since moving up in the 90s?

I think the state would do everything they could to prevent VSU from seeing that type of growth that quickly.  If that type of growth started to happen I have a feeling efforts would be made to funnel those kids interested in VSU to schools like Christopher Newport and Longwood.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 20, 2021, 03:16:15 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

I think you are correct about travel expenses.  But I believe that applied across the board for the entire MEAC conference, which is why you are seeing the exodus.  I believe many school admin's tried to convince the MEAC to relax the travel and move to a truly North/South Division and the MEAC was reluctant. 

But it was more than that for SSU.  SSU had the lowest student athletic fee in the MEAC at $300 per semester and the Georgia Board of Regents felt that was too high.  There were some MEAC schools where student Athletic fees was well over $1k a semester for students.  In addition, SSU suffered from a horrible brain drain in leadership across the board which resulted in inadequate to no planning and vision for the institution's future.   

SSU is finally stabilizing again with decent leadership in the newly appointed President who has served as interim for 2 years.  KUDOS to the new President who is doing a fine job thus far.
Yeah I've had many conversations with a few meac posters about their high student fees. That's another area that would have been a plus for you guys had your administration applied for membership to the SWAC.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Decks on May 20, 2021, 08:48:51 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

I think you are correct about travel expenses.  But I believe that applied across the board for the entire MEAC conference, which is why you are seeing the exodus.  I believe many school admin's tried to convince the MEAC to relax the travel and move to a truly North/South Division and the MEAC was reluctant. 

But it was more than that for SSU.  SSU had the lowest student athletic fee in the MEAC at $300 per semester and the Georgia Board of Regents felt that was too high.  There were some MEAC schools where student Athletic fees was well over $1k a semester for students.  In addition, SSU suffered from a horrible brain drain in leadership across the board which resulted in inadequate to no planning and vision for the institution's future.   

SSU is finally stabilizing again with decent leadership in the newly appointed President who has served as interim for 2 years.  KUDOS to the new President who is doing a fine job thus far.

the success or failure to "persevere" at the d1 level for hbcu's really boils down to each institution's "leadership" more than anything else.  i'm really tired of folk using "travel costs" as an excuse to struggle at that level.

a&t has been a member of the meac "uninterrupted" for the last "50 years"!  if "travel costs" were the main issue for a&t leaving, then why did it take "50 years" to do so?  a&t could've easily stayed in the ciaa 50 years ago or anytime thereafter if that were the case.  same for all of the other "original" members of the meac as well.

this thing is all about "leadership" from the top.  the only difference between "27 game losing streak" a&t, versus the "3 time" consecutive bcf national champion a&t, is "LEADERSHIP" from the top...

Everybody knows it was never truly about travel costs with A&T. I especially agree with your statement about individual institutional leadership.

Focusing on us again? Tell everyone....why is nccu weighing their conference affiliation options? Seems like a recommendation is supposed to be made at your upcoming board meeting  in June. What do you expect to be the outcome?
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: bluedog on May 20, 2021, 09:22:00 PM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

I think you are correct about travel expenses.  But I believe that applied across the board for the entire MEAC conference, which is why you are seeing the exodus.  I believe many school admin's tried to convince the MEAC to relax the travel and move to a truly North/South Division and the MEAC was reluctant. 

But it was more than that for SSU.  SSU had the lowest student athletic fee in the MEAC at $300 per semester and the Georgia Board of Regents felt that was too high.  There were some MEAC schools where student Athletic fees was well over $1k a semester for students.  In addition, SSU suffered from a horrible brain drain in leadership across the board which resulted in inadequate to no planning and vision for the institution's future.   

SSU is finally stabilizing again with decent leadership in the newly appointed President who has served as interim for 2 years.  KUDOS to the new President who is doing a fine job thus far.

the success or failure to "persevere" at the d1 level for hbcu's really boils down to each institution's "leadership" more than anything else.  i'm really tired of folk using "travel costs" as an excuse to struggle at that level.

a&t has been a member of the meac "uninterrupted" for the last "50 years"!  if "travel costs" were the main issue for a&t leaving, then why did it take "50 years" to do so?  a&t could've easily stayed in the ciaa 50 years ago or anytime thereafter if that were the case.  same for all of the other "original" members of the meac as well.

this thing is all about "leadership" from the top.  the only difference between "27 game losing streak" a&t, versus the "3 time" consecutive bcf national champion a&t, is "LEADERSHIP" from the top...

Everybody knows it was never truly about travel costs with A&T. I especially agree with your statement about individual institutional leadership.

Focusing on us again? Tell everyone....why is nccu weighing their conference affiliation options? Seems like a recommendation is supposed to be made at your upcoming board meeting  in June. What do you expect to be the outcome?
Unless their administration is dumb af. It will be to stay the hell put after this new contract
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: punchy on May 20, 2021, 11:43:20 PM
From earlier in the thread

Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.

Also, A&T looks like a DI HBCU because they have been a DI HBCU for forty years.   :shrug:

I believe that D1 membership will result in a windfall of enrollment for VSU.  Possibly up to 1000 or more students in the next five years.  Sidebar: The majority of VSU's institutional peers are DI members (including two current MEAC members), so a push to join DI may also be connected to aligning with their peers.

Hasn't Norfolk State lost thousands of students in their enrollment numbers since moving up in the 90s?

I think the state would do everything they could to prevent VSU from seeing that type of growth that quickly.  If that type of growth started to happen I have a feeling efforts would be made to funnel those kids interested in VSU to schools like Christopher Newport and Longwood.

Yes, Norfolk State lost a good number of students. This happened when we went from "Open Enrollment" to the status we're at now, and in my humble opinion, I think NSU was better for it.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: DRUMMA1 on May 21, 2021, 01:09:54 AM
The big elephant in the room is that the state of North Carolina, unfortunately, has taken better care of its public HBCUs than every other state below the Mason Dixon.  It is evident in enrollment, campuses, facilities, academic programs and leadership.

Conversely, I do feel the state has, traditionally, appointed certain presidents at certain schools to maintain "a balance" among the overall  success of the 5 campuses. I have yet to see an NC HBCU with the level of consistent, quality leadership as A&T and I feel it has been done by design. To be honest, A&T, NCCU, and FSU should all be above 10,000 students by now, given their locations and history but I feel the state of NC, like many other Southern states, have stifled their ability to grow and cherry-picks 1 HBCU to stand out, instead of allowing them all to reach their maximum potentials.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: WileECoyote06 on May 21, 2021, 04:17:58 AM
The big elephant in the room is that the state of North Carolina, unfortunately, has taken better care of its public HBCUs than every other state below the Mason Dixon.  It is evident in enrollment, campuses, facilities, academic programs and leadership.

Conversely, I do feel the state has, traditionally, appointed certain presidents at certain schools to maintain "a balance" among the overall  success of the 5 campuses. I have yet to see an NC HBCU with the level of consistent, quality leadership as A&T and I feel it has been done by design. To be honest, A&T, NCCU, and FSU should all be above 10,000 students by now, given their locations and history but I feel the state of NC, like many other Southern states, have stifled their ability to grow and cherry-picks 1 HBCU to stand out, instead of allowing them all to reach their maximum potentials.

I've felt this way for a while too.  And good for mentioning FSU.  I think folks are sleeping on the Broncos.  They're sitting on a gold mine, and should be at least equal to Pembroke, if not even more prominent in the Sandhills region.

In addition, they just poached our Assoc. VC for Enrollment Management to serve as Provost.  FSU is on a forward tragectory.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ALMIGHTY on May 21, 2021, 08:27:29 AM
The big elephant in the room is that the state of North Carolina, unfortunately, has taken better care of its public HBCUs than every other state below the Mason Dixon.  It is evident in enrollment, campuses, facilities, academic programs and leadership.
:nod:
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jay_Thomas on May 21, 2021, 09:07:02 AM
The big elephant in the room is that the state of North Carolina, unfortunately, has taken better care of its public HBCUs than every other state below the Mason Dixon.  It is evident in enrollment, campuses, facilities, academic programs and leadership.



Tell you what, they're doing SOMETHING RIGHT in North Carolina. All of those hbcu's and
A&T's enrollment is over 10K.  NCCU is close to being 10K.  Fayetteville State is close to 6K.  I think WSSU is around 5K....what about ECSU, I don't know what theirs is.

Then add in the private HBCU's usual enrollment for D2 private hbcu's.  NC probably has the most students enrolled in hbcu's than any other state.

SOMETHING RIGHT is going on over there.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Warpaint on May 21, 2021, 09:15:35 AM
From earlier in the thread

Division I membership, especially among the HBCU community, generally indicates transformative vision from leadership.  Not only are there increases in athletic funding, but it often includes better branding, better caliber students, more diverse degree offerings, a more diverse student body, more graduate level programs, and other factors.  These things tend to go hand-in-hand.  Universities looking to position themselves for the next thirty years should examine all options.

Also, A&T looks like a DI HBCU because they have been a DI HBCU for forty years.   :shrug:

I believe that D1 membership will result in a windfall of enrollment for VSU.  Possibly up to 1000 or more students in the next five years.  Sidebar: The majority of VSU's institutional peers are DI members (including two current MEAC members), so a push to join DI may also be connected to aligning with their peers.

Hasn't Norfolk State lost thousands of students in their enrollment numbers since moving up in the 90s?

I think the state would do everything they could to prevent VSU from seeing that type of growth that quickly.  If that type of growth started to happen I have a feeling efforts would be made to funnel those kids interested in VSU to schools like Christopher Newport and Longwood.

Yes, Norfolk State lost a good number of students. This happened when we went from "Open Enrollment" to the status we're at now, and in my humble opinion, I think NSU was better for it.

Thanks for that info, that makes sense.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Warpaint on May 21, 2021, 09:19:17 AM
The big elephant in the room is that the state of North Carolina, unfortunately, has taken better care of its public HBCUs than every other state below the Mason Dixon.  It is evident in enrollment, campuses, facilities, academic programs and leadership.



Tell you what, they're doing SOMETHING RIGHT in North Carolina. All of those hbcu's and
A&T's enrollment is over 10K.  NCCU is close to being 10K.  Fayetteville State is close to 6K.  I think WSSU is around 5K....what about ECSU, I don't know what theirs is.

Then add in the private HBCU's usual enrollment for D2 private hbcu's.  NC probably has the most students enrolled in hbcu's than any other state.

SOMETHING RIGHT is going on over there.

ECSU's enrollment had dropped over the years, but they are seeing an increase now that they have the NC Promise tuition.  That gives them a strong chance at competing for all of those students in the VA tidewater area.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: EagleWing on May 21, 2021, 09:27:54 AM
I wonder if some would still say that VSU contemplating D1 is not a good idea if they were looking at the OVC or the Big South instead of the MEAC.

It's pretty much VSU posters and other CIAA loyalist who are skeptical. Easy to understand their concerns when you consider that three of the last four D2 hbcu's to make the jump to D1 couldn't sustain operating at that level.

I’ve seen more than VSU fans and CIAA loyalists chime in on how VSU shouldn’t consider the MEAC between multiple forums. You already know what the answer would be if VSU said BS or OVC instead of MEAC.

Understandable to be cautious of the other schools who tried and didn’t succeed but that doesn’t mean a school should base the decisions of their future solely only the failures of another institution. Ultimately VSU will be fine either way but to say an entity shouldn’t consider growing because a completely different institution didn’t have success is how you get stuck.

Your statements gives the impression that the only "grown" schools play DI sports. Moving up doesn't signal growth, but simply a change in how you want to approach sports. Go tell the Ivy League that their schools are less grown than the SEC.

Nope, but transitioning to D1 you are growing or have the potential to grow in many ways. Growing budgets, staffing, services, etc. potential to grow your brand by playing in different conferences, and classics. Potential to grow your enrollment, new sponsorships and donors. Can this happen while being D2 yes it can, but being apart of a school that has done and seen it happen it’s accelerated. If you have any success early on? Maaaaan lol

OK. All good points. However, simply moving to a more expensive neighborhood with the same furniture is not growth, but simply a move. Your richer neighbors might give you some of their hand-me-downs, but never enough to truly like them.

Honestly, it can be growth if you have leadership with a vision that can leverage it. That’s something I don’t think schools like SSU had when they transitioned. VSU has nice furniture as currently constructed, nicer than some in D1 already. This is true especially in their revenue sports. If you’re going into it thinking of hand me downs you’re doomed from the start regardless of division.
The first mistake the SSU administration made was to join the wrong conference as it related to their travel expenses imo. I could be wrong and someone can educate me on that.  If they have access to better knowledge of the situation

I think you are correct about travel expenses.  But I believe that applied across the board for the entire MEAC conference, which is why you are seeing the exodus.  I believe many school admin's tried to convince the MEAC to relax the travel and move to a truly North/South Division and the MEAC was reluctant. 

But it was more than that for SSU.  SSU had the lowest student athletic fee in the MEAC at $300 per semester and the Georgia Board of Regents felt that was too high.  There were some MEAC schools where student Athletic fees was well over $1k a semester for students.  In addition, SSU suffered from a horrible brain drain in leadership across the board which resulted in inadequate to no planning and vision for the institution's future.   

SSU is finally stabilizing again with decent leadership in the newly appointed President who has served as interim for 2 years.  KUDOS to the new President who is doing a fine job thus far.

the success or failure to "persevere" at the d1 level for hbcu's really boils down to each institution's "leadership" more than anything else.  i'm really tired of folk using "travel costs" as an excuse to struggle at that level.

a&t has been a member of the meac "uninterrupted" for the last "50 years"!  if "travel costs" were the main issue for a&t leaving, then why did it take "50 years" to do so?  a&t could've easily stayed in the ciaa 50 years ago or anytime thereafter if that were the case.  same for all of the other "original" members of the meac as well.

this thing is all about "leadership" from the top.  the only difference between "27 game losing streak" a&t, versus the "3 time" consecutive bcf national champion a&t, is "LEADERSHIP" from the top...

Everybody knows it was never truly about travel costs with A&T. I especially agree with your statement about individual institutional leadership.

Focusing on us again? Tell everyone....why is nccu weighing their conference affiliation options? Seems like a recommendation is supposed to be made at your upcoming board meeting  in June. What do you expect to be the outcome?

Not focusing on a&t again at all, simply agreeing with what ONE OF YOUR OWN stated. I fully expect NCCU to be a member of the MEAC for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ALMIGHTY on May 21, 2021, 10:27:01 AM
The big elephant in the room is that the state of North Carolina, unfortunately, has taken better care of its public HBCUs than every other state below the Mason Dixon.  It is evident in enrollment, campuses, facilities, academic programs and leadership.



Tell you what, they're doing SOMETHING RIGHT in North Carolina. All of those hbcu's and
A&T's enrollment is over 10K.  NCCU is close to being 10K.  Fayetteville State is close to 6K.  I think WSSU is around 5K....what about ECSU, I don't know what theirs is.

Then add in the private HBCU's usual enrollment for D2 private hbcu's.  NC probably has the most students enrolled in hbcu's than any other state.

SOMETHING RIGHT is going on over there.
NC decided decades ago to invest in education.  The fact that they have so many state supported HBCU's speaks volumes about their way of thinking.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 21, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
The big elephant in the room is that the state of North Carolina, unfortunately, has taken better care of its public HBCUs than every other state below the Mason Dixon.  It is evident in enrollment, campuses, facilities, academic programs and leadership.

Conversely, I do feel the state has, traditionally, appointed certain presidents at certain schools to maintain "a balance" among the overall  success of the 5 campuses. I have yet to see an NC HBCU with the level of consistent, quality leadership as A&T and I feel it has been done by design. To be honest, A&T, NCCU, and FSU should all be above 10,000 students by now, given their locations and history but I feel the state of NC, like many other Southern states, have stifled their ability to grow and cherry-picks 1 HBCU to stand out, instead of allowing them all to reach their maximum potentials.

Damnnnnnn, that is what I have been saying for years. It cost the State a lot more money to fund DI schools than DII schools. Larger enrollments require more State funding in both tuition, staff and facilities. There is know doubt that our last president was sent to WSSU to shut down our move to DI. Again, being DI is far deeper than the skin of sports. In a state that wants to close as many HBCUs as they can, there is know way they want any more DI HBCUs. Sponsors also don't want any more DI schools to support. Sometimes I think we forget what country we live in.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Ram55 on May 21, 2021, 10:40:13 AM
The big elephant in the room is that the state of North Carolina, unfortunately, has taken better care of its public HBCUs than every other state below the Mason Dixon.  It is evident in enrollment, campuses, facilities, academic programs and leadership.



Tell you what, they're doing SOMETHING RIGHT in North Carolina. All of those hbcu's and
A&T's enrollment is over 10K.  NCCU is close to being 10K.  Fayetteville State is close to 6K.  I think WSSU is around 5K....what about ECSU, I don't know what theirs is.

Then add in the private HBCU's usual enrollment for D2 private hbcu's.  NC probably has the most students enrolled in hbcu's than any other state.

SOMETHING RIGHT is going on over there.

Take a tour of the 17 State Universities in North Carolina and revisit your statements. Sure the State HBCUs have very nice campuses, but compared to who? Turst me, we are not being treated equally. As great as A&T's campus is, just drive two miles to UNC Greensboro's campus and see the difference. One has 12,000 students while the other has 20,000 and better facilities. Separate has not been equal.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JAG89 on May 21, 2021, 11:21:00 AM
The big elephant in the room is that the state of North Carolina, unfortunately, has taken better care of its public HBCUs than every other state below the Mason Dixon.  It is evident in enrollment, campuses, facilities, academic programs and leadership.



Tell you what, they're doing SOMETHING RIGHT in North Carolina. All of those hbcu's and
A&T's enrollment is over 10K.  NCCU is close to being 10K.  Fayetteville State is close to 6K.  I think WSSU is around 5K....what about ECSU, I don't know what theirs is.

Then add in the private HBCU's usual enrollment for D2 private hbcu's.  NC probably has the most students enrolled in hbcu's than any other state.

SOMETHING RIGHT is going on over there.

Take a tour of the 17 State Universities in North Carolina and revisit your statements. Sure the State HBCUs have very nice campuses, but compared to who? Turst me, we are not being treated equally. As great as A&T's campus is, just drive two miles to UNC Greensboro's campus and see the difference. One has 12,000 students while the other has 20,000 and better facilities. Separate has not been equal.

I would have to agree with you on this assessment, because we cannot get complacent with the few chicken bones they have thrown our way.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jay_Thomas on May 21, 2021, 11:40:23 AM

Take a tour of the 17 State Universities in North Carolina and revisit your statements. Sure the State HBCUs have very nice campuses, but compared to who? Turst me, we are not being treated equally. As great as A&T's campus is, just drive two miles to UNC Greensboro's campus and see the difference. One has 12,000 students while the other has 20,000 and better facilities. Separate has not been equal.

Yeah, I get that our schools may still lack quite a bit compared to the other schools. There is a reason the other schools have double and sometimes triple the enrollment that our schools have:  1) their enrollments are made up of so many others including us   2) our schools are mostly made up of US  3) when it comes to funding for state schools, enrollment does play a part...so does the racist past of this country as well. 

Separate was never meant to be equal altho thats the lie that they told. We are still catching up. I guess a good question would be, what can our schools do to catch up? And is that even possible? We know the states aren't going to help facilitate that.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Conquero on May 22, 2021, 09:13:22 AM
North Carolina Higher Education System brokered a pretty good deal with the US Dept of Education avoiding litigation which did in fact elevate the status's of the public HBCU's.   The deal brokered is the catalyst for the NCA&T and the NCCU we see today.  . 

Raymond Pierce (Civil Rights Attorney) was over the investigation in North Carolina, as an attorney for the US Dept of Education, Civil Rights, after brokering a nice deal in the early 90's for NC HBCU's he became Dean of NCCU Law School.

So in short, the observation that North Carolina HBCU's are years ahead of others in terms of equity for HBCU's isn't just a blind observation, it is steeped in some truth.



Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JBROB on May 22, 2021, 11:14:27 AM
I think the 1890 Land Grant Universities will benefit from lawsuits that may be filed in the future.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: The Watcher on May 22, 2021, 11:25:47 AM
After 13 pages, I need a drank   :nod:

I just want to know what the KEY stakeholders and the VSU BOT think about this potential move? If admins listened to Alumni, the MEAC would've never formulated in the first place.

Imagine a CIAA with 24 teams?

 :shrug:

There wouldn't be 24 teams lol. But alumni by-in is important since you're going to need them to raise money. Unless you've got several with really deep pockets.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: ncsiacfan on May 22, 2021, 11:46:25 AM
Conquero, a whole lot of people did not know about this and others have forgotten. UNC System  President William Friday was one arrogant bastard. Some say that he was more powerful than the governor. He seemed to be so partial to UNC that people did not realize that he was a graduate of North Carolina State. He threatened to walk out on us when he did not like the questions that the NCCU Faculty Senate were asking him.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Jay_Thomas on May 23, 2021, 05:46:26 PM
 ;D 17 pages later and we know NO MORE than we knew when it was just page one.


Oooooh well, stay tuned.     :snicker
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: JBROB on May 23, 2021, 07:03:40 PM
;D 17 pages later and we know NO MORE than we knew when it was just page one.


Oooooh well, stay tuned.     :snicker


It will take a month to know anything. But Virginia State says they are good in the CIAA.
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: eagle pride on May 24, 2021, 09:34:19 AM
I don't think the MEAC is really banking on VSU moving up.  It is great that they are exploring.  Nothing wrong with that.  Would have been nice though. 
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: Cub 7 on May 24, 2021, 02:21:17 PM
CIAA just announced that Virginia State will be the host for the CIAA track and field Championship through 2024.  So for the short term VSU will remain in the CIAA
Title: Re: Kentucky State, Virginia State considering move up to Division I to join MEAC
Post by: MilesBear1 on May 25, 2021, 02:29:15 PM
Well KSU what is your answer?