Onnidan Fan Forum

Discussion => Politics => Topic started by: Bison66 on February 14, 2019, 11:02:26 PM

Title: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: Bison66 on February 14, 2019, 11:02:26 PM
Does the #ADOS & #MAGA convergence signal imminent Economic Collapse?
When Jingoism and Djangoism Collide: America First!


(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*YP8MHeYUywmVViZrylgrsA.jpeg)

QUOTE

I think it’s important to clarify that the political genealogy of ‘Black Nativism’ extends far beyond Yvette Carnell, and Antonio Moore. While they are the most widely known proponents of, current day, Black nativist thought, their major contribution to its political lineage has been the creation of the #ADOS hashtag.

For those of us who have been following the political developments of this conservative strain of Black political thought, you will immediately recognize Dr. Claud Anderson as the father of 21st Century Black nativism. Over the years, there have been numerous Pan African scholars that have maintained a principled critique of the limitations of Dr. Anderson’s ‘POWERnomics’ philosophy.

[...]

The challenge becomes, making demands without the ability to physically, or economically enforce them, is an act of empty political rhetoric. At best, it represents a gross misunderstanding of how racism and power function; at worst, it is an act of political negligence, and a complete disregard for an entire body of knowledge that has already debunked the political efficacy of Negro American nativism.

[...]

#ADOS is uncritical of itself, and as such, lacks the ability to see the irony in their critiques of other African colonial groupings (i.e. Jamaicans, Haitians, Nigerians, Ghanaians, etc.). This entire movement is an emotional response to two specific factors:

1. The failed promise of negro integration, and
2. the fear of economic starvation in a deindustrialized society.
UNQUOTE

I had decided not to post this before, but since #ADOS / #DOS came up in another thread...

This article just about demolishes the ideological under-pinnings - such as they are - of #DOS.


O0
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: Olde Hornet on February 15, 2019, 06:29:22 AM
computer geek here, when I saw the headline, I was wondering if some version of DOS was updated to support mega.   
:lmao:
:snicker
;D
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: Bison66 on February 15, 2019, 09:20:32 AM
computer geek here, when I saw the headline, I was wondering if some version of DOS was updated to support mega.   
:lmao:
:snicker
;D

THAT would be a much better scenario!!!!

(Whatever mega is?   :lmao:)

O0
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: EB on February 16, 2019, 12:40:08 PM
Here are a couple of links with one having responses (link1 (https://www.thecoli.com/threads/does-the-ados-maga-convergence-signal-imminent-economic-collapse.691176/), link2 (https://moguldom.com/183348/does-the-ados-maga-convergence-signal-imminent-economic-collapse/)).  I know that there will be disagreements and debates in a group or among groups.  They are not necessarily bad things.  Multiple good ideas can arise from the disagreements and debates.

However, the some of the debates within these groups bother me.  Political struggles are necessary as are economic ones.  A Pan African movement is also useful and necessary in my opinion.  Those in the movements need not fight with each other.
 Debate or disagreement is one thing, but divisiveness is another.

I maybe missing something.  Anyway, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. had more in common than not in common in their goals.  The civil rights movement in the U.S. was not just a domestic one.  It had international support.  One cannot separate or completely separate colonialism in African from the transatlantic slave trade.

Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: Bison66 on February 16, 2019, 06:20:27 PM
Here are a couple of links with one having responses (link1 (https://www.thecoli.com/threads/does-the-ados-maga-convergence-signal-imminent-economic-collapse.691176/), link2 (https://moguldom.com/183348/does-the-ados-maga-convergence-signal-imminent-economic-collapse/)).  I know that there will be disagreements and debates in a group or among groups.  They are not necessarily bad things.  Multiple good ideas can arise from the disagreements and debates.

However, the some of the debates within these groups bother me.  Political struggles are necessary as are economic ones.  A Pan African movement is also useful and necessary in my opinion.  Those in the movements need not fight with each other.
 Debate or disagreement is one thing, but divisiveness is another.

I maybe missing something.  Anyway, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. had more in common than not in common in their goals.  The civil rights movement in the U.S. was not just a domestic one.  It had international support.  One cannot separate or completely separate colonialism in African from the transatlantic slave trade.

PREACH!!

I'll check the links.


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Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: Bison66 on February 18, 2019, 11:00:26 PM
EB,

Thanks again for the links...  I needed to see that.

I came away disappointed with the lack of specific critique of the article.  Lots of general comments and even outrage at the illustration.  But no critical analysis of the article's content, which IS a critical and historical analysis of #ADOS.

I empathize with your own observations in your last post.  And, as you said, debate is essential to reaching clarity.

Y'all,

Essentially, these are ideological issues.

Ideological debates are the most intense because they go to the core of our beliefs AND our interests.  For that reason, those debates easily and often go off track IMMEDIATELY with accusations about motives and integrity.

Nevertheless, I seek engagement on ideological issues to test my own premises and assertions and to learn from others' perspectives with the hope of deepening my own understanding.

So, I invite others to comment on the issues raised in the article in the OP.

I'll start by saying that IMO #ADOS is in actuality "America First - if not only."  By severing the connections between Africans born and raised in the US of A from our own family on The Continent and elsewhere in the African Diaspora, ADOS - consciously or not - puts us at the mercy of American people and policy, neither of which has been sympathetic to us historically.

To say the least.


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Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: aggiejazz on February 19, 2019, 08:31:27 PM
I see the ADOS folks as another generation of black people trying to find a solution that will get the bottom 1/2-to-2/3 of black households from the bottom of the economic and social heap. 

Only time will tell if ADOS movement will achieve some success.

The big surprise to me is the pushback, alarm and in some cases, outright hostility from Africans who are living in the USA or Europe towards ADOS point-of-view and goal for US reparations that will only be for ADOS for harm committed in the US against enslaved Africans and their descendants (ADOS).
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: Bison66 on February 19, 2019, 10:42:37 PM
AggieJa--,

Thanks so much for your contribution to this discussion.  Let's explore, OK?

I believe that this paragraph from the article addresses reparations:

The challenge becomes, making demands without the ability to physically, or economically enforce them, is an act of empty political rhetoric. At best, it represents a gross misunderstanding of how racism and power function; at worst, it is an act of political negligence, ..


Personally, I think that reparations are morally justified and should be paid, but history, logic and common sense tell us there is ZERO possibility that the American political progress will yield them - ever.

If AggieJa--, you and I disagree on that point, we'll have to agree to disagree.

If we agree, then how can we support a "movement" (if ADOS is one) that seems to have as its central tenent that reparations should and WILL be forthcoming?!?!?  An unrealistic and impossible outcome.

Reminds me of the person who asked Farrakhan (during Jesse Jackson's campaign in the '80s) why he didn't run for President of the US of A.....

WTH!!  Square pegs, round holes, etc.

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Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: EB on February 23, 2019, 04:34:08 AM
Understand that the Caribbean was a slaughterhouse for the slaves.  Historians could probably have a debate on which slavery worse, the Caribbean or the United States.

Jamaica is officially calling for reparations from Great Britain.  The Brits have said no despite former Prime Minister David Cameron's family connections.

Yes, there are big differences amongst those in the U.S., Caribbean and the rest of Latin America.  There is a reason why there is an African diaspora in the Americas.
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: Bison66 on February 23, 2019, 07:39:07 PM
This short essay by my man Jared Ball touches on ADOS.

He thinks that the paragraph quoted below from his comments was the reason that he was disinvited to participate in a panel with ADOS advocates.


QUOTE

Our response can only be a collective and political movement that, as has been born out historically as necessary, must contain a particular internationalist approach as well. That is, Black communities cannot seek redress to issues of White supremacist educational narratives absent a political movement that seeks power over policy. This, and other domestic efforts like it, cannot be expected to advance absent international solidarity and external support. As has been exemplified by every major leader and movement produced in the United States by African descended people seeking liberty there have been calls for international solidarity and support. Enslaved Africans sought support from and were inspired by the Haitian Revolution. Abolitionists, suffragists, civil and human rights figures from Ida B. Wells to Dr. King, Malcolm X and the Black Panther Party have all seen their struggles as intimately connected to, in need of support from and even indebted to similar struggles, movements and individuals from around the world.
UNQUOTE

https://imixwhatilike.org/2019/02/21/curriculum-wars-and-the-heroification-of-white-supremacy/

I would add the specific note that the anti-colonial struggle and particularly the independence of Ghana in 1959 was inspiring to Africans/Black folks in the US of A during a rebirth of militancy re civil rights.

The entire essay by Dr. Ball is excellent reading and touches on many subjects of interest including Freud's last and mostly ignored book, which maintained that Moses was an African/Kemetan who "needed to (be made) into a Jew."  That, if true, gives you a good idea of how long the hijacking of African/Black culture and history has been going on.


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Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: EB on February 27, 2019, 10:59:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73kl5DeqYR8

Monique Pressley offers her thoughts.

https://twitter.com/MoniquePressley/status/1100762723229540353

https://twitter.com/MoniquePressley/status/1100603971041927168

https://twitter.com/MoniquePressley/status/1100593698545504257
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: aggiejazz on February 27, 2019, 09:45:58 PM
Bison66 in reference to our interchange above:

If we mark 1619 as the starting point: there have been very dark days for enslaved and later freed Africans in this country when our ancestors either had unbelievable hope or downright pessimism about their future and that of their offsprings.  Our world has always been "take, then give and then take again" when it comes to us getting freedom and repair.  I am little hopeful that reparations may come but I am very worried that the reparations could be a signal of something sinister to come.

It sounds like I am wishy-washy but after every win we have had, there has been serious setbacks in our history.
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: EB on March 08, 2019, 11:57:58 AM
One should know their history especially if they are going to act on behalf of a cause.  What were local struggles and fights in this country became international in score.

Marc Lamont Hill offers some comments.

https://twitter.com/marclamonthill/status/1103050455989530626

https://twitter.com/marclamonthill/status/1103048627805736961

https://twitter.com/marclamonthill/status/1103047729192812544
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: Bison66 on March 09, 2019, 12:38:25 PM
My views on this matter have been repeated many times, so I will attempt to resist re-stating them.

Instead, as I come across perspectives I feel are genuine and historically accurate, I will share.

This one by a Howard University Alum is excellent...


EXCERPT

At the forefront of the ADOS network’s political agenda is the age old question of reparations, similar to the manner that naked police terrorism defined Black Lives Matter and Imperialist corporate greed drove Occupy Wall Street movement.

Another characteristic that makes ADOS similar to both Black Lives Matter and Occupy Wall Street, is what appears to be a deliberate choice to have political space, detached from the organized formations who developed and championed the very issue that steers their political efforts and program.

We challenge any and everyone to go back and review the articles of Mr. Moore and blogs of Ms. Carnell and find them humbly recognizing the tireless and selfless work of the Provisional Government of the Republic of New Afrika, the New Afrikan Peoples Organization, NCOBRA(National Conference of Blacks For Reparations In America), Malcolm X Grass Roots Movement, December 12th Movement, and The National Black United Front. Even before these organized formations, the Nation of Islam and Africans who were in the Communist Party many moons ago, also pushed the question of reparations.

Because of our political culture takes on a matralineal character, the heart and soul of the reparations movement inside US borders was the larger than life Garveyite Queen Mother Moore, who took the red black and green flag of the UNIA-ACL and insisted it be the symbol of the reparations movement, that same flag is the symbol of what the internationally acclaimed hip hop group Dead Prez call RBG which stands for Revolutionary but Gangsta.

For whatever reason Mr. Moore and Ms. Carnell decided to yankee doodleize the Reparations question by not only dismissing the New Afrikan approach to reparations, but theoretically and figuratively [NOTE: and LITERALLY] draping themselves in the US flag.

When it comes to reactionary sentiments, we do have choices,.....
UNQUOTE

https://www.herald.co.zw/fyi-ados-pan-africanists-today/ (https://www.herald.co.zw/fyi-ados-pan-africanists-today/)

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Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: EB on March 18, 2019, 01:34:37 PM
https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/1106243949520449536

----------

ADOS Shrinks Reparationist Politics to Fit the Cramped Horizon of Tribalism (https://blackagendareport.com/ados-shrinks-reparations-politics-fit-narrow-horizon-tribalism)
 
Bruce A. Dixon, BAR managing editor 15 Mar 2019

“ADOS followers throw away the internationalism of their forbears, embracing instead a sometimes polite, but always frank hostility toward immigrants of all nations on the grounds that they’re either economic competition for native-born blacks...”


Why can’t y’all just decide to be what you already are – more like us – a white co-worker named Travis asked me in the early 1980s. He was a diehard Southern Baptist, Reagan was the newly elected president, and we were working at the Chicago Pullman plant, laying on our sides all day or night, whatever shift it was, routing ducts and cabling in the tiny equipment rooms beneath Amtrak cars, talking politics and history. I’d just brought up the war in Vietnam, in which the US killed 3 million Vietnamese alone, and the murderous wars in Central America which were happening as we spoke. I probably threw in some references to the ongoing wars for liberation in southern Africa as well where the US was backing, financing and arming the wrong side as usual.

…..
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: EB on April 13, 2019, 01:30:21 PM
This is touchy.  Then again almost every we post is touchy.

I saw a few days ago where Dr. West supported ADOS.  Recently, ADOS is getting criticized, really attacked.  The writer, who has gone after ADOS, goes after West.  He talks about a debate that West had with Professor John Henrik Clarke.  (I would never debate a Professor Clarke.  Quote:  "I only debate my equals.  All others I teach.")  Anyway, I saw a little part of the video and was surprised that West debated him.

Of course I remember the criticism West and Tavis Smiley got for their criticisms of President Obama.  I have had big criticisms of the former president.  My biggest problem with West was how he said things (Rockefeller in Blackface).  How one says things can be as bad or worse than what they say.

----------

Cornel West and the Intellectual Dishonesty of the ADOS Movement (https://medium.com/@dwomowale/cornel-west-and-the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-ados-movement-5fbebe9c908e)

Dwayne Wong
Apr 11

Cornel West recently expressed support for the ADOS movement that has been promoted by Yvette Carnell and others. This was not surprising to me given West’s record of being a critic of Black Nationalism and Pan-Africanism. West’s support for ADOS also confirms much of what I have been saying about the ADOS movement, which is that the movement is rooted in an attack on Pan-Africanism and the arguments that many in the ADOS movement have made in support of their position is not rooted in a clear historical understanding of Pan-Africanism. West exemplifies this position.

John Henrik Clarke and Cornel West engaged in a debate over this topic in the 1990s, although it was not much of a debate as it was Dr. Clarke simply teaching a lesson. As Clarke said, he only debated his equals and West clearly was not his equal then and is even less so now. What semblance of a debate existed quickly ends at around the 59 minute mark of the video.

.....
Title: Re: The #ADOS & #MAGA convergence...
Post by: Bison66 on April 13, 2019, 06:56:57 PM
I recommend, in particular, the THIRD audio stream:

https://imixwhatilike.org/2019/04/07/pan-africanism-and-the-ados-phenomenon/ (https://imixwhatilike.org/2019/04/07/pan-africanism-and-the-ados-phenomenon/)

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