Onnidan Fan Forum

Discussion => Sports Forum => Topic started by: AimHigh on September 16, 2018, 05:07:59 PM

Title: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 16, 2018, 05:07:59 PM
Which of the D1 HBCUs are legitimate FCS programs and which should seriously consider dropping to D2?

Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Alcorn State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Bethune-Cookman
Coppin State
Delaware State
Florida A&M
Grambling
Hampton
Howard
Jackson State
Maryland Eastern Shore
Mississippi Valley State
Morgan State
Norfolk State
NC A&T
NC Central
Prairie View A&M
SC State
Southern
Tennessee State
Texas Southern
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 16, 2018, 06:33:39 PM
Maybe Hampton and Howard, but not all. :nono2:

In my view, the legitimate D1 programs are Grambling, NC A&T, NC Central, Prairie View A&M, Southern
and Tennessee State.

The programs that clearly should drop to D2 are Alabama A&M, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Coppin State, Maryland Eastern Shore, and Mississippi Valley State.

All of the others could go in either direction.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: EPJr on September 16, 2018, 07:35:39 PM
is this based on just football, FB and basketball or overall athletic programs?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Bison 4 Life on September 16, 2018, 09:18:19 PM
Football fortunes go in cycles. A&T were garbage a few years ago and could easily revert back.Same with bad teams like JSU, and FAMU.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: punchy on September 16, 2018, 09:30:58 PM
Which of the D1 HBCUs are legitimate FCS programs and which should seriously consider dropping to D2?

Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Alcorn State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Bethune-Cookman
Coppin State
Delaware State
Florida A&M
Grambling
Hampton
Howard
Jackson State
Maryland Eastern Shore
Mississippi Valley State
Morgan State
Norfolk State
NC A&T
NC Central
Prairie View A&M
SC State
Southern
Tennessee State
Texas Southern

Any sports in particular, or are we talking about sports in an overall perspective?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: TheBlackPanther on September 16, 2018, 10:25:47 PM
If we're being 100% honest, none of the current D1 HBCU's have the budgets to truly be competitive in all sports with PWI's. Not a single one of them. And if we're still being honest, just about every last DII HBCU (my alma mater included) would probably find more success at the NAIA level.

We can sit around here and pretend like some HBCU's are on a different level but the truth is we're all in the same boat when it comes to athletics. Some of us just get lucky more than others. I'm sure my opinion is an unpopular one but I've always felt this way.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 16, 2018, 11:22:27 PM
Maybe Hampton and Howard, but not all. :nono2:

In my view, the legitimate D1 programs are Grambling, NC A&T, NC Central, Prairie View A&M, Southern
and Tennessee State.

The programs that clearly should drop to D2 are Alabama A&M, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Coppin State, Maryland Eastern Shore, and Mississippi Valley State.

All of the others could go in either direction.
This joker here  :lol:  Strange how he put us out there but SCSU & Del State can go either way????  :crazy:  Leave it to Ole Mr. Voyeurism.  :lol:



Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Ivan on September 17, 2018, 02:14:19 AM
If we're being 100% honest, none of the current D1 HBCU's have the budgets to truly be competitive in all sports with PWI's. Not a single one of them. And if we're still being honest, just about every last DII HBCU (my alma mater included) would probably find more success at the NAIA level.

We can sit around here and pretend like some HBCU's are on a different level but the truth is we're all in the same boat when it comes to athletics. Some of us just get lucky more than others. I'm sure my opinion is an unpopular one but I've always felt this way.

At this point, NCAA Div II and NAIA are equal competition-wise.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: TheBlackPanther on September 17, 2018, 07:07:39 AM
If we're being 100% honest, none of the current D1 HBCU's have the budgets to truly be competitive in all sports with PWI's. Not a single one of them. And if we're still being honest, just about every last DII HBCU (my alma mater included) would probably find more success at the NAIA level.

We can sit around here and pretend like some HBCU's are on a different level but the truth is we're all in the same boat when it comes to athletics. Some of us just get lucky more than others. I'm sure my opinion is an unpopular one but I've always felt this way.

At this point, NCAA Div II and NAIA are equal competition-wise.

You’re right. Then I guess DIII would be the next best option because it’s very clear that we aren’t scaring anyone in DII.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 17, 2018, 07:14:54 AM
Maybe Hampton and Howard, but not all. :nono2:

In my view, the legitimate D1 programs are Grambling, NC A&T, NC Central, Prairie View A&M, Southern
and Tennessee State.

The programs that clearly should drop to D2 are Alabama A&M, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Coppin State, Maryland Eastern Shore, and Mississippi Valley State.

All of the others could go in either direction.
This joker here  :lol:  Strange how he put us out there but SCSU & Del State can go either way????  :crazy:  Leave it to Ole Mr. Voyeurism.  :lol:

I put Alabama A&M out because you have the LOWEST budget in ALL of D1 athletics. :tiptoe:

I am talking about all-around athletic programs, which of course are driven by football and basketball revenues. It is a myth of assumed inferiority that all HBCUs are not resourced to be competitive as D1s. Let me prove it.

Prairie View has a budget stronger than Citadel, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, and Weber State. NC Central and Southern have stronger budgets than VMI, Idaho State, and McNeese State. NC A&T just beat an FBS East Carolina team that punished UNC. Some HBCUs like Grambling do not have great budgets but still historically manage to be pretty competitive. Tennessee State and even Alabama State have bonafide FCS resources and facilities. If Alabama A&M has made ripples in D1, then please inform me.

Look at the budget numbers here: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Ram55 on September 17, 2018, 08:46:53 AM
If we're being 100% honest, none of the current D1 HBCU's have the budgets to truly be competitive in all sports with PWI's. Not a single one of them. And if we're still being honest, just about every last DII HBCU (my alma mater included) would probably find more success at the NAIA level.

We can sit around here and pretend like some HBCU's are on a different level but the truth is we're all in the same boat when it comes to athletics. Some of us just get lucky more than others. I'm sure my opinion is an unpopular one but I've always felt this way.

You hit the nail on the head. The only reason we can compete, "sometimes", is because we get better skilled players than most PWIs on our levels. But the coaching, facilities, and budgets art vastly inferior. Not sure about going to NAIA. What high school players wants to play for an NAIA school much-less know what one is.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Warpaint on September 17, 2018, 08:50:59 AM
No love for Chicago State........
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: TheBlackPanther on September 17, 2018, 08:57:00 AM
If we're being 100% honest, none of the current D1 HBCU's have the budgets to truly be competitive in all sports with PWI's. Not a single one of them. And if we're still being honest, just about every last DII HBCU (my alma mater included) would probably find more success at the NAIA level.

We can sit around here and pretend like some HBCU's are on a different level but the truth is we're all in the same boat when it comes to athletics. Some of us just get lucky more than others. I'm sure my opinion is an unpopular one but I've always felt this way.

You hit the nail on the head. The only reason we can compete, "sometimes", is because we get better skilled players than most PWIs on our levels. But the coaching, facilities, and budgets art vastly inferior. Not sure about going to NAIA. What high school players wants to play for an NAIA school much-less know what one is.

It's a fair point to an extent but an HBCU is an HBCU regardless of what division or league they play in. I don't think the types of recruits that end up at our schools are as concerned about what level they're playing at as some of the DI recruits are.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: WileECoyote06 on September 17, 2018, 09:14:15 AM
Maybe Hampton and Howard, but not all. :nono2:

In my view, the legitimate D1 programs are Grambling, NC A&T, NC Central, Prairie View A&M, Southern
and Tennessee State.

The programs that clearly should drop to D2 are Alabama A&M, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Coppin State, Maryland Eastern Shore, and Mississippi Valley State.

All of the others could go in either direction.
This joker here  :lol:  Strange how he put us out there but SCSU & Del State can go either way????  :crazy:  Leave it to Ole Mr. Voyeurism.  :lol:

I put Alabama A&M out because you have the LOWEST budget in ALL of D1 athletics. :tiptoe:

I am talking about all-around athletic programs, which of course are driven by football and basketball revenues. It is a myth of assumed inferiority that all HBCUs are not resourced to be competitive as D1s. Let me prove it.

Prairie View has a budget stronger than Citadel, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, and Weber State. NC Central and Southern have stronger budgets than VMI, Idaho State, and McNeese State. NC A&T just beat an FBS East Carolina team that punished UNC. Some HBCUs like Grambling do not have great budgets but still historically manage to be pretty competitive. Tennessee State and even Alabama State have bonafide FCS resources and facilities. If Alabama A&M has made ripples in D1, then please inform me.

Look at the budget numbers here: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

I think that report is incomplete or wrong with regard to Alabama A&M.  Any FCS AD that runs his or her program with a six million dollar+ deficit would be fired.  It makes no sense, especially considering they were at 10 million+ in revenue in 2015.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: EL JAY on September 17, 2018, 09:29:13 AM
If we're being 100% honest, none of the current D1 HBCU's have the budgets to truly be competitive in all sports with PWI's. Not a single one of them. And if we're still being honest, just about every last DII HBCU (my alma mater included) would probably find more success at the NAIA level.

We can sit around here and pretend like some HBCU's are on a different level but the truth is we're all in the same boat when it comes to athletics. Some of us just get lucky more than others. I'm sure my opinion is an unpopular one but I've always felt this way.

The truth will set you free...but first it's going to piss you off.  Into to Lemon

From a business standpoint you are totally correct.  BUT......tradition, pride and other factors will keep programs living the D1 dream on a D2 budget.  Just imagine a fully funded MEAC or SWAC team dropping down to D2 CIAA or SIAC...with good facilities?

What are the top 3 reasons to be D1?  Be honest.  Exposure?  Revenue? Level of competition? What???



 
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: TheBlackPanther on September 17, 2018, 09:59:35 AM
If we're being 100% honest, none of the current D1 HBCU's have the budgets to truly be competitive in all sports with PWI's. Not a single one of them. And if we're still being honest, just about every last DII HBCU (my alma mater included) would probably find more success at the NAIA level.

We can sit around here and pretend like some HBCU's are on a different level but the truth is we're all in the same boat when it comes to athletics. Some of us just get lucky more than others. I'm sure my opinion is an unpopular one but I've always felt this way.

The truth will set you free...but first it's going to piss you off.  Into to Lemon

From a business standpoint you are totally correct.  BUT......tradition, pride and other factors will keep programs living the D1 dream on a D2 budget.  Just imagine a fully funded MEAC or SWAC team dropping down to D2 CIAA or SIAC...with good facilities?

What are the top 3 reasons to be D1?  Be honest.  Exposure?  Revenue? Level of competition? What???

I don't expect any DI HBCU's to drop down to DII in the near future even though I can think of a couple in particular that just might have to close their doors if they don't figure something out soon. "Pride" sums it all up IMO. I think being a DI HBCU is mostly about pride. It would have to be, wouldn't it? Because our schools damn sure aren't making any money by getting their butts handed to them by these Power 5 schools. And it's not like playing these bigs schools has landed us any major recruits. How many times has ESPN clowned on Savannah State for getting destroyed by a big school over the years? How is that good exposure?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 17, 2018, 10:09:13 AM
Maybe Hampton and Howard, but not all. :nono2:

In my view, the legitimate D1 programs are Grambling, NC A&T, NC Central, Prairie View A&M, Southern
and Tennessee State.

The programs that clearly should drop to D2 are Alabama A&M, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Coppin State, Maryland Eastern Shore, and Mississippi Valley State.

All of the others could go in either direction.
This joker here  :lol:  Strange how he put us out there but SCSU & Del State can go either way????  :crazy:  Leave it to Ole Mr. Voyeurism.  :lol:

I put Alabama A&M out because you have the LOWEST budget in ALL of D1 athletics. :tiptoe:

I am talking about all-around athletic programs, which of course are driven by football and basketball revenues. It is a myth of assumed inferiority that all HBCUs are not resourced to be competitive as D1s. Let me prove it.

Prairie View has a budget stronger than Citadel, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, and Weber State. NC Central and Southern have stronger budgets than VMI, Idaho State, and McNeese State. NC A&T just beat an FBS East Carolina team that punished UNC. Some HBCUs like Grambling do not have great budgets but still historically manage to be pretty competitive. Tennessee State and even Alabama State have bonafide FCS resources and facilities. If Alabama A&M has made ripples in D1, then please inform me.

Look at the budget numbers here: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
Please cite the methodology in this report that makes it a determining factor as to whether a school should be D1 or D2 or any level for that reason. If our athletics budget (in almost 20 years as a D1) is low but we have not been in any financial difficulty, we are expanding our educational offers, building new facilities/dorms, not dropping in enrollment, what concern is it of yours what level we play on???? Not that I'm against dropping down because I would have no problem going back to the SIAC.  The report indicated that Bama state had the exact amount of revenue as they had in expenses. How is that possible ???? :shrug: Our facilities are on par with or better than most of the HBCU FCS campuses I've been to (i.e. better than Howard's. :shrug:) Given all the indepth research and thought it appears you have put into this opinion,  I will be sure to file it right next to your opinion of my photos.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: ‘87 Alum on September 17, 2018, 10:19:36 AM
Legit? What’s the baseline definition of “legit”?

Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: punchy on September 17, 2018, 10:28:17 AM
If the total revenue and total expenses are the same, what does that mean? They just break even? Or is it a cover up?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Jay_Thomas on September 17, 2018, 10:47:42 AM
Legit? What’s the baseline definition of “legit”?


Thats a great question and I always ask the same every football season when this question comes up. Interesting that this seems to be the only time of the year that it comes up so I GUESS that the focus is on football performance, preparedness, BUDGET, facilities, etc?   :shrug:

So is the premise that you are ONLY  legitimate based on your win-loss record? OR based on how bad you get beat ? 
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 17, 2018, 11:01:32 AM
The baseline of "legit" is whether you have the a) resources to be b) competitive, so it is a two-part equation.

It is a myth of assumed inferiority that all HBCUs are not resourced to be competitive as D1s. :nono2:

Prairie View has a budget stronger than Citadel, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, and Weber State. NC Central and Southern have stronger budgets than VMI, Idaho State, and McNeese State. NC A&T just beat an FBS East Carolina team that punished UNC. Some HBCUs like Grambling do not have great budgets but still historically manage to be pretty competitive. Tennessee State and even Alabama State have bonafide FCS resources and facilities.

Look at the budget numbers here: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ :read:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: ‘87 Alum on September 17, 2018, 11:27:30 AM
So the majoral foci of your definition is fiscal resources and the appearance that some are doing way more with less resources vs others doing way less with more resources, right?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: punchy on September 17, 2018, 12:04:00 PM
Budgets be damned! On Any Given Saturday,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: DOOMSDAY on September 17, 2018, 12:07:53 PM
...you can get your anus pushed out your mouth.

Budgets are very important.  As are the tools to properly research them:

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

Prairie View ain't outspending Jacksonville State in nuffin.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 17, 2018, 12:24:44 PM
Maybe Hampton and Howard, but not all. :nono2:

In my view, the legitimate D1 programs are Grambling, NC A&T, NC Central, Prairie View A&M, Southern
and Tennessee State.

The programs that clearly should drop to D2 are Alabama A&M, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Coppin State, Maryland Eastern Shore, and Mississippi Valley State.

All of the others could go in either direction.
This joker here  :lol:  Strange how he put us out there but SCSU & Del State can go either way????  :crazy:  Leave it to Ole Mr. Voyeurism.  :lol:

I put Alabama A&M out because you have the LOWEST budget in ALL of D1 athletics. :tiptoe:

I am talking about all-around athletic programs, which of course are driven by football and basketball revenues. It is a myth of assumed inferiority that all HBCUs are not resourced to be competitive as D1s. Let me prove it.

Prairie View has a budget stronger than Citadel, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, and Weber State. NC Central and Southern have stronger budgets than VMI, Idaho State, and McNeese State. NC A&T just beat an FBS East Carolina team that punished UNC. Some HBCUs like Grambling do not have great budgets but still historically manage to be pretty competitive. Tennessee State and even Alabama State have bonafide FCS resources and facilities. If Alabama A&M has made ripples in D1, then please inform me.

Look at the budget numbers here: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
Please cite the methodology in this report that makes it a determining factor as to whether a school should be D1 or D2 or any level for that reason. If our athletics budget (in almost 20 years as a D1) is low but we have not been in any financial difficulty, we are expanding our educational offers, building new facilities/dorms, not dropping in enrollment, what concern is it of yours what level we play on???? Not that I'm against dropping down because I would have no problem going back to the SIAC.  The report indicated that Bama state had the exact amount of revenue as they had in expenses. How is that possible ???? :shrug: Our facilities are on par with or better than most of the HBCU FCS campuses I've been to (i.e. better than Howard's. :shrug:) Given all the indepth research and thought it appears you have put into this opinion,  I will be sure to file it right next to your opinion of my photos.

Here you go Que:

http://sports.usatoday.com/2018/06/28/methodology-for-2017-ncaa-athletic-department-revenue-database/
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Ram55 on September 17, 2018, 12:53:19 PM
There is a misconception that if our larger HBCUs were to move down, they would dominate DII football. Well that is a bunch of bull. We would still get our butts kicked. The better DII schools are light years better than most of our HBCU DI schools.  Sure, we would get lucky from time to time and be able to compete for a few years, but that wouldn't last long. We would have robbed Peter to pay Paul during those few years... similar to what WSSU was doing during our national run.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: WileECoyote06 on September 17, 2018, 01:19:13 PM
I like being in Division I.  Some thoughts:

Our spending in both the MEAC and the SWAC places us at the low end of Division I expenditures.  Especially schools that sponsor football.

Being in DI is kind of a catch-22.  If athletics is the front door to the university and drives enrollment, then the athletic classification that gets the most exposure is Division I.  It's not a coincidence that nine of the ten largest HBCUs are all in Division I.  Strangely enough, several of the largest HBCUs have lost enrollment over the past five years.  If we can correct that issue, then spending should increase and as a by-product, our competitiveness.

IMHO, FCS is an unsustainable business model and will soon subdivide.  It makes no sense to have teams spending FBS money in FCS.  When the dust settles, the HBCUs will join other like-minded cost-control conferences in Division I- FCS-AA or whatever it comes to be called.  This will also improve our competitiveness.

These are two of the main reasons my opinion on the Celebration Bowl changed.  For now, we have a way to generate revenue and gain exposure without breaking the bank to engage the current FCS "arms race."  NCCU and A&T have both realized a remarkable increase in admission applications.


No love for Chicago State........
  I think we ignore Chicago State sometimes, because it's not an HBCU.  It became predominantly black in the 1970s.






Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: jag4life on September 17, 2018, 01:58:49 PM
If the total revenue and total expenses are the same, what does that mean? They just break even? Or is it a cover up?

It means you planned well as a non-profit entity.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Warpaint on September 17, 2018, 02:04:15 PM
I like being in Division I.  Some thoughts:

Our spending in both the MEAC and the SWAC places us at the low end of Division I expenditures.  Especially schools that sponsor football.

Being in DI is kind of a catch-22.  If athletics is the front door to the university and drives enrollment, then the athletic classification that gets the most exposure is Division I.  It's not a coincidence that nine of the ten largest HBCUs are all in Division I.  Strangely enough, several of the largest HBCUs have lost enrollment over the past five years.  If we can correct that issue, then spending should increase and as a by-product, our competitiveness.

IMHO, FCS is an unsustainable business model and will soon subdivide.  It makes no sense to have teams spending FBS money in FCS.  When the dust settles, the HBCUs will join other like-minded cost-control conferences in Division I- FCS-AA or whatever it comes to be called.  This will also improve our competitiveness.

These are two of the main reasons my opinion on the Celebration Bowl changed.  For now, we have a way to generate revenue and gain exposure without breaking the bank to engage the current FCS "arms race."  NCCU and A&T have both realized a remarkable increase in admission applications.


No love for Chicago State........
  I think we ignore Chicago State sometimes, because it's not an HBCU.  It became predominantly black in the 1970s.

That's interesting and I didn't realize that.  Since the TMCF, HCASC, and NAAAHP all include Chicago State, I thought they were an HBCU.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: MilesBear1 on September 17, 2018, 02:42:49 PM
So Far only Savannah State have come to realize that they don't belong in D1 Sports. However there are others that would rather discontinue sports than to drop back to D2. Hell you came from D2 before you moved up to D1 Sports. :nod: :lol: :snicker But my list for drop back to D2 is

Football
Alabama A&M
MVSU
Jackson State
South Carolina State
Norfolk State
UAPB
Tennessee State
BCU
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: punchy on September 17, 2018, 02:48:26 PM
...you can get your anus pushed out your mouth.

Budgets are very important.  As are the tools to properly research them:

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

Prairie View ain't outspending Jacksonville State in nuffin.

I never said budget weren't important. But A&T, with a budget of 13 million, just beat ECU, who happens to have a budget of 48 million dollars. If we are stating that budget are the end all to be all when going beastmode in college football,,,,,,THAT AIN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. Which is why I say on any given Saturday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 17, 2018, 03:05:03 PM
So Far only Savannah State have come to realize that they don't belong in D1 Sports. However there are others that would rather discontinue sports than to drop back to D2. Hell you came from D2 before you moved up to D1 Sports. :nod: :lol: :snicker But my list for drop back to D2 is

Football
Alabama A&M
MVSU
Jackson State
South Carolina State
Norfolk State
UAPB
Tennessee State
BCU

This list generally makes sense. What is your rationale for Tennessee State though?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: ‘87 Alum on September 17, 2018, 03:08:36 PM
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 17, 2018, 03:12:08 PM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: TheBlackPanther on September 17, 2018, 03:58:19 PM
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?

$800,000 is the highest I’ve ever heard of and I believe that was FAMU’s payout for playing Arkansas a few years ago. My memory is a little fuzzy though so I could be off by a bit.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: punchy on September 17, 2018, 05:39:50 PM
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?

$800,000 is the highest I’ve ever heard of and I believe that was FAMU’s payout for playing Arkansas a few years ago. My memory is a little fuzzy though so I could be off by a bit.

I thought FAMU got 900K to play at Ohio State a few years ago? Maybe they could shed more light on that payday. Del State got a nice payday to play at Michigan,,,,,,,,so much that they cancelled a MEAC division game with one of our brethren to play Michigan,,,,,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: PowellAnthony on September 17, 2018, 05:50:50 PM
North Carolina A&T received a $300,000 pay day playing East Carolina and they also won the game. No HBCUs are going to receive this kind of money playing Division 2 or NAIA schools.   
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 17, 2018, 06:24:07 PM
Maybe Hampton and Howard, but not all. :nono2:

In my view, the legitimate D1 programs are Grambling, NC A&T, NC Central, Prairie View A&M, Southern
and Tennessee State.

The programs that clearly should drop to D2 are Alabama A&M, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Coppin State, Maryland Eastern Shore, and Mississippi Valley State.

All of the others could go in either direction.
This joker here  :lol:  Strange how he put us out there but SCSU & Del State can go either way????  :crazy:  Leave it to Ole Mr. Voyeurism.  :lol:

I put Alabama A&M out because you have the LOWEST budget in ALL of D1 athletics. :tiptoe:

I am talking about all-around athletic programs, which of course are driven by football and basketball revenues. It is a myth of assumed inferiority that all HBCUs are not resourced to be competitive as D1s. Let me prove it.

Prairie View has a budget stronger than Citadel, Jacksonville State, Eastern Washington, and Weber State. NC Central and Southern have stronger budgets than VMI, Idaho State, and McNeese State. NC A&T just beat an FBS East Carolina team that punished UNC. Some HBCUs like Grambling do not have great budgets but still historically manage to be pretty competitive. Tennessee State and even Alabama State have bonafide FCS resources and facilities. If Alabama A&M has made ripples in D1, then please inform me.

Look at the budget numbers here: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
Please cite the methodology in this report that makes it a determining factor as to whether a school should be D1 or D2 or any level for that reason. If our athletics budget (in almost 20 years as a D1) is low but we have not been in any financial difficulty, we are expanding our educational offers, building new facilities/dorms, not dropping in enrollment, what concern is it of yours what level we play on???? Not that I'm against dropping down because I would have no problem going back to the SIAC.  The report indicated that Bama state had the exact amount of revenue as they had in expenses. How is that possible ???? :shrug: Our facilities are on par with or better than most of the HBCU FCS campuses I've been to (i.e. better than Howard's. :shrug:) Given all the indepth research and thought it appears you have put into this opinion,  I will be sure to file it right next to your opinion of my photos.

Here you go Que:

http://sports.usatoday.com/2018/06/28/methodology-for-2017-ncaa-athletic-department-revenue-database/

Maybe my response wasn't clear.  "Please cite the methodology in this report that makes it a determining factor as to whether a school should be D1 or D2 or any level for that reason."
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: JBROB on September 17, 2018, 07:53:37 PM
Most of the MEAC members were a part of the CIAA in 1969.  Just for historical reference.

CIAA 1969
Elizabeth City State University,  1957
Fayetteville State University   1954
Johnson C. Smith University   1926
Livingstone College       1931
Saint Augustine's University      1933
Shaw University   1912
Virginia State University  1920
Virginia Union University      1912
Winston–Salem State University    1945
Lincoln University  1912
Delaware State University
Hampton University
Howard University
University of Maryland Eastern Shore
Morgan State University
Norfolk State University
North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University
North Carolina Central University
Saint Paul's College

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intercollegiate_Athletic_Association





Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 17, 2018, 09:10:23 PM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedyfbUUr0Y
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 17, 2018, 09:11:47 PM
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?
We got 615K from Auburn.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: EPJr on September 17, 2018, 09:53:38 PM
If we're being 100% honest, none of the current D1 HBCU's have the budgets to truly be competitive in all sports with PWI's. Not a single one of them. And if we're still being honest, just about every last DII HBCU (my alma mater included) would probably find more success at the NAIA level.

We can sit around here and pretend like some HBCU's are on a different level but the truth is we're all in the same boat when it comes to athletics. Some of us just get lucky more than others. I'm sure my opinion is an unpopular one but I've always felt this way.




At this point, NCAA Div II and NAIA are equal competition-wise.

You’re right. Then I guess DIII would be the next best option because it’s very clear that we aren’t scaring anyone in DII.

nope blacks don't need to be in D3
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 17, 2018, 10:27:03 PM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedyfbUUr0Y

Hey buddy this ainte personal. You may be offended by my critique of your pics, but no harm intended. I appreciate your contribution. I think and hope we both respect the virtue of our culture and our women. To your question, this isn't about Howard or A&M. It's about what is true for whomever. Anyone who knows anything about college athletics knows that being D1 has EVERYTHING to do with being at a HIGHER LEVEL of RESOURCES and COMPETITIVENESS. If the rest of your institution reasons the way you do, then that explains a lot. Howard has made some ripples in D1, but maybe we should still be D2. I'm not against that.

Howard pulls biggest point-spread upset in college football history (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/20555460/howard-stuns-unlv-biggest-point-spread-upset-college-football-history)

By the way, I appreciate you posting the Williams Brothers. Keep that mindset on Gameday. :nod:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 17, 2018, 10:51:16 PM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources.  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug:

Hey buddy this ainte personal. You may be offended by my critique of your pics, but no harm intended. I appreciate your contribution. I think and hope we both respect the virtue of our culture and our women. To your question, this isn't about Howard or A&M. It's about what is true for whomever. Anyone who knows anything about college athletics knows that being D1 has EVERYTHING to do with being at a HIGHER LEVEL of RESOURCES and COMPETITIVENESS. If the rest of your institution reasons the way you do, then that explains a lot. Howard has made some ripples in D1, but maybe we should still be D2. I'm not against that.

Howard pulls biggest point-spread upset in college football history (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/20555460/howard-stuns-unlv-biggest-point-spread-upset-college-football-history)
Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::).  If its not about A&M or any of the other school you would have made this a general assessment which included your own non-competitive school instead of the specifics you used.  Howard won one game in a horrid decade of play and y'all have arrive????  :crazy:  Your other money sports have not done crap either, so you should have accessed yours first before talking about someone else.  You right though, it ain't personal because I know nothing about you but your arrogant a**  posts.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 17, 2018, 11:01:03 PM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedyfbUUr0Y

Hey buddy this ainte personal. You may be offended by my critique of your pics, but no harm intended. I appreciate your contribution. I think and hope we both respect the virtue of our culture and our women. To your question, this isn't about Howard or A&M. It's about what is true for whomever. Anyone who knows anything about college athletics knows that being D1 has EVERYTHING to do with being at a HIGHER LEVEL of RESOURCES and COMPETITIVENESS. If the rest of your institution reasons the way you do, then that explains a lot. Howard has made some ripples in D1, but maybe we should still be D2. I'm not against that.

Howard pulls biggest point-spread upset in college football history (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/20555460/howard-stuns-unlv-biggest-point-spread-upset-college-football-history)
Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::).  If its not about A&M or any of the other school you would have made this a general assessment which included your own non-competitive school instead of the specifics you used.  Howard won one game in a horrid decade of play and y'all have arrive????  :crazy:  Your other money sports have not done crap either, so you should have accessed yours first before talking about someone else.  You right though, it ain't personal because I know nothing about you but your arrogant a**  posts.

Stay in our gospel mindset friend. :angel:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 17, 2018, 11:04:37 PM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedyfbUUr0Y

Hey buddy this ainte personal. You may be offended by my critique of your pics, but no harm intended. I appreciate your contribution. I think and hope we both respect the virtue of our culture and our women. To your question, this isn't about Howard or A&M. It's about what is true for whomever. Anyone who knows anything about college athletics knows that being D1 has EVERYTHING to do with being at a HIGHER LEVEL of RESOURCES and COMPETITIVENESS. If the rest of your institution reasons the way you do, then that explains a lot. Howard has made some ripples in D1, but maybe we should still be D2. I'm not against that.

Howard pulls biggest point-spread upset in college football history (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/20555460/howard-stuns-unlv-biggest-point-spread-upset-college-football-history)
Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::).  If its not about A&M or any of the other school you would have made this a general assessment which included your own non-competitive school instead of the specifics you used.  Howard won one game in a horrid decade of play and y'all have arrive????  :crazy:  Your other money sports have not done crap either, so you should have accessed yours first before talking about someone else.  You right though, it ain't personal because I know nothing about you but your arrogant a**  posts.

Stay in our gospel mindset friend. :angel:
I accept "friend" much better than "buddy".  I promise to stay in a gospel mindset is you promise to stay in your lane.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Ram55 on September 18, 2018, 04:40:11 PM
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?

But Troy is an FBS school, so them playing a P5 school is the same as NCCU playing North Dakota state. Thats not really a money game for them. They are just playing one of the better teams in their division. Troy should have gotten more for playing them than a FCS school would have gotten.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: punchy on September 18, 2018, 09:04:26 PM
Food for thought....

Troy pocketed $1M to play Nebraska in Lincoln on Saturday. For you D1 schools, how much y’all get when playing these P5 teams in football?

But Troy is an FBS school, so them playing a P5 school is the same as NCCU playing North Dakota state. Thats not really a money game for them. They are just playing one of the better teams in their division. Troy should have gotten more for playing them than a FCS school would have gotten.

If Nebraska would've returned a game to Troy, Troy wouldn't have gotten paid. I see that VaTech is returning a game to ODU in Norfolk. I'm sure that will bring a crowd this weekend.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: BisonBlu on September 19, 2018, 02:50:02 AM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedyfbUUr0Y

For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M. 
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: ‘87 Alum on September 19, 2018, 07:59:16 AM
So being in the top half of MEAC budgets is a parallel to what in the grand schema of Div 1 Athletic budgets?

And because you field 19 teams, how many are competitive at the national level? Shouldn’t that be the achievement bar that programs should be measured against, or simply put, are we fielding teams just to say we offer “X” number of sports and teams?

The thread and resulting conversations were initially based on the lack of competitiveness of some schools in several sports. Let’s not lose sight of that aspect.
 
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Ram55 on September 19, 2018, 09:02:43 AM
All, lets not forget the reasons school offer sports programs. Its not to be national champs, but to offer students extra curricular participation and the experience. Our goals should be to be competitive, if possible, with "similar" schools. If the similar schools are DI, then we should remain DI. However, schools that are similar to us are mostly DII.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: BisonBlu on September 19, 2018, 04:46:26 PM
So being in the top half of MEAC budgets is a parallel to what in the grand schema of Div 1 Athletic budgets?

And because you field 19 teams, how many are competitive at the national level? Shouldn’t that be the achievement bar that programs should be measured against, or simply put, are we fielding teams just to say we offer “X” number of sports and teams?

The thread and resulting conversations were initially based on the lack of competitiveness of some schools in several sports. Let’s not lose sight of that aspect.

So everyone who is not a nationally ranked program should bow down and drop to D-2.  Currently Howard fields competive D-I teams in several sports. Not powerhouse programs but very few non-power five schools field top notch programs throughout their departments. Would you say that schools should leave SIAC/CIAA for NAIA?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: ‘87 Alum on September 19, 2018, 09:48:54 PM
So being in the top half of MEAC budgets is a parallel to what in the grand schema of Div 1 Athletic budgets?

And because you field 19 teams, how many are competitive at the national level? Shouldn’t that be the achievement bar that programs should be measured against, or simply put, are we fielding teams just to say we offer “X” number of sports and teams?

The thread and resulting conversations were initially based on the lack of competitiveness of some schools in several sports. Let’s not lose sight of that aspect.

So everyone who is not a nationally ranked program should bow down and drop to D-2.  Currently Howard fields competive D-I teams in several sports. Not powerhouse programs but very few non-power five schools field top notch programs throughout their departments. Would you say that schools should leave SIAC/CIAA for NAIA?

Don't get it twisted, unlike some of you, I have never advocated teams moving down divisions.  I merely asked a honest question merely based on your prior comment about being in the top half of conference athletic budgets. Again, the original premise was based on competitive with other D1 programs.  is that not true?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Thinkingaboutit on September 19, 2018, 10:17:17 PM
I will bet most of the persons replying on this does not give a dime to their alma mater while having all the answers. Stay where you want to stay.  Let it go!  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:  I know not what course others may take and glad some of you closet businessmen have no say so in the operations of these institutions.  Stay in your comfort zones   ' ON THE PORCH'   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)  leave your neighbors alone.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 19, 2018, 10:28:50 PM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedyfbUUr0Y

For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M.


For one, moving up in the MEAC does not make you a legit D1, it makes you a legit MEAC school.  Therefore the conference argument is not germane.

Men's Sports (as listed on your website)
1. Basketball
2. Football
3. Cross Country
4. Soccer
5. Swimming and Diving
6. Track and Field
7  Tennis

Women's Sports

8.  Basketball
9.  Bowling
10. Cross Country
11. Lacrosse
12. Soccer
13. Softball
14. Swimming & Diving
15. Tennis
16. Track & Field
17. Volleyball

https://hubison.com/

I'm not a math whiz but unless you are counting Spades and Bid Whist you come up short of supporting 19 sports. :shrug:

"When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons."

Last 6 years records

Basketball  2017 10-23, 2016 10-24, 2015 12-20, 2014 16-16, 2013 9-22, 2012 9-22

Football  2017 7-4, 2016 2-9, 2015 1-10, 2014 5-7, 2013 6-6, 2012 7-4

Cross Country 2017 8th MEAC, 2017 10th MEAC 2016 7th MEAC, 2015 4th MEAC 2014

Soccer 2017 2-15-3, 2016  2-15-3, 2015 0-17-2, 2014 2-15-2, 2013 1-17, 2012 3-16

MEN'S SWIMMING AND DIVING 2017 8-4, 2016 5-6, 2015 1-7, 2014 0-10, 2013 0-11, 2012

Men's Tennis  2017 1-15, 2016 1-13, 2015 3-16, 2014 3-13, 2013 2-16, 2012 8-2

MEN'S TRACK AND FIELD 2017 13th MEAC, 2016 No Data, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 No Data

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL  2017 12-18, 2016 16-13, 2015 7-24, 2014 4-27, 2013 11-20, 2012 20-12

WOMEN'S BOWLING 2017 28-68, 2016 45-74, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 2015 No Data

Softball 2018 8-37, 2017 4-34  2016 9-32   2015 14-29  2014 4-36  2013 7-18

Volleyball 2017 16-16  2016 26-6   2015 18-14  2014 20-11  2013 21-11  2012 No Data

Whew that's enough and more than the majority.  I get that y'all have money but from the looks of the above your overall program is as sh!tty as us broke mugs.  :shrug:  So for someone from HU to try to tell me we should drop down and y'all could go either way as a legit D1 bears no merit. :shrug:

"Liars figure but figures don't lie." 

By the looks of it, your budget has no significant impact on your competitiveness except in one non-revenue sport. :shrug:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 19, 2018, 10:34:22 PM
I will bet most of the persons replying on this does not give a dime to their alma mater while having all the answers. Stay where you want to stay.  Let it go!  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:  I know not what course others may take and glad some of you closet businessmen have no say so in the operations of these institutions.  Stay in your comfort zones   ' ON THE PORCH'   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)  leave your neighbors alone.
I give at a minimum $100 a month for more than two decades, normally buy season tickets to attend 1 game (homecoming), season basketball tickets to attend 0 games, donate to special causes, drive 77 miles one way to be a member of my Alumni Association, so I guess I don't fall in your "most" category. ;)
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 20, 2018, 12:07:20 AM
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 20, 2018, 01:00:30 AM
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
Alabama A&M should be D1 just as much as any other HBCU at that level.  Our school is not in financial peril of closing because of our sports program.  In fact we are building and growing.  We are about as productive as the state of Alabama will allow us to be.  When you look at overall sustained success in athletics programs there is not one "legit" as you call D1 because HBCU success is cyclic.  So as I said before put down your rock before you break a wall in your glass house.

"I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy."

Now if that statement doesn't sound pretentious I don't know what does.  :shrug: I guess you guys are the one's who drive the Mercedes while living in the projects.  :lol:  So you Black Ivies (I guess that's less than legit Ivy) can keep looking down your jaundice eyes at us lessor HBCUs.  :nod:

For your information and edification when attacked, defense is a common response. :popcorn:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Ram55 on September 20, 2018, 08:32:34 AM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedyfbUUr0Y

For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M.


For one, moving up in the MEAC does not make you a legit D1, it makes you a legit MEAC school.  Therefore the conference argument is not germane.

Men's Sports (as listed on your website)
1. Basketball
2. Football
3. Cross Country
4. Soccer
5. Swimming and Diving
6. Track and Field
7  Tennis

Women's Sports

8.  Basketball
9.  Bowling
10. Cross Country
11. Lacrosse
12. Soccer
13. Softball
14. Swimming & Diving
15. Tennis
16. Track & Field
17. Volleyball

https://hubison.com/

I'm not a math whiz but unless you are counting Spades and Bid Whist you come up short of supporting 19 sports. :shrug:

"When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons."

Last 6 years records

Basketball  2017 10-23, 2016 10-24, 2015 12-20, 2014 16-16, 2013 9-22, 2012 9-22

Football  2017 7-4, 2016 2-9, 2015 1-10, 2014 5-7, 2013 6-6, 2012 7-4

Cross Country 2017 8th MEAC, 2017 10th MEAC 2016 7th MEAC, 2015 4th MEAC 2014

Soccer 2017 2-15-3, 2016  2-15-3, 2015 0-17-2, 2014 2-15-2, 2013 1-17, 2012 3-16

MEN'S SWIMMING AND DIVING 2017 8-4, 2016 5-6, 2015 1-7, 2014 0-10, 2013 0-11, 2012

Men's Tennis  2017 1-15, 2016 1-13, 2015 3-16, 2014 3-13, 2013 2-16, 2012 8-2

MEN'S TRACK AND FIELD 2017 13th MEAC, 2016 No Data, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 No Data

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL  2017 12-18, 2016 16-13, 2015 7-24, 2014 4-27, 2013 11-20, 2012 20-12

WOMEN'S BOWLING 2017 28-68, 2016 45-74, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 2015 No Data

Softball 2018 8-37, 2017 4-34  2016 9-32   2015 14-29  2014 4-36  2013 7-18

Volleyball 2017 16-16  2016 26-6   2015 18-14  2014 20-11  2013 21-11  2012 No Data

Whew that's enough and more than the majority.  I get that y'all have money but from the looks of the above your overall program is as sh!tty as us broke mugs.  :shrug:  So for someone from HU to try to tell me we should drop down and y'all could go either way as a legit D1 bears no merit. :shrug:

"Liars figure but figures don't lie." 

By the looks of it, your budget has no significant impact on your competitiveness except in one non-revenue sport. :shrug:

That is a strong argument you just made. Facts don't lie.  :clap:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: punchy on September 20, 2018, 09:41:31 AM
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
Alabama A&M should be D1 just as much as any other HBCU at that level.  Our school is not in financial peril of closing because of our sports program.  In fact we are building and growing.  We are about as productive as the state of Alabama will allow us to be.  When you look at overall sustained success in athletics programs there is not one "legit" as you call D1 because HBCU success is cyclic.  So as I said before put down your rock before you break a wall in your glass house.

"I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy."

Now if that statement doesn't sound pretentious I don't know what does.  :shrug: I guess you guys are the one's who drive the Mercedes while living in the projects.  :lol:  So you Black Ivies (I guess that's less than legit Ivy) can keep looking down your jaundice eyes at us lessor HBCUs.  :nod:

For your information and edification when attacked, defense is a common response. :popcorn:

I have to respectfully agree with Que82. NSU has definitely grown! It seems there is always construction going on at SPARTA, and I love it! I think NSU belongs at the FCS level for football,,,,,maybe not JMU or NDSU-SDSU level yet, but we're getting there. Basketball is getting there. We did advance past the first game in the big dance against Missouri once, so,,,,,and our track and field used to help us win the All Sports award a number of years. Baseball is pretty good at NSU, as well as bowling. We're good. I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody would assume that NSU might be better off in D2?  :shrug:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Ram55 on September 20, 2018, 10:54:26 AM
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
Alabama A&M should be D1 just as much as any other HBCU at that level.  Our school is not in financial peril of closing because of our sports program.  In fact we are building and growing.  We are about as productive as the state of Alabama will allow us to be.  When you look at overall sustained success in athletics programs there is not one "legit" as you call D1 because HBCU success is cyclic.  So as I said before put down your rock before you break a wall in your glass house.

"I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy."

Now if that statement doesn't sound pretentious I don't know what does.  :shrug: I guess you guys are the one's who drive the Mercedes while living in the projects.  :lol:  So you Black Ivies (I guess that's less than legit Ivy) can keep looking down your jaundice eyes at us lessor HBCUs.  :nod:

For your information and edification when attacked, defense is a common response. :popcorn:

I have to respectfully agree with Que82. NSU has definitely grown! It seems there is always construction going on at SPARTA, and I love it! I think NSU belongs at the FCS level for football,,,,,maybe not JMU or NDSU-SDSU level yet, but we're getting there. Basketball is getting there. We did advance past the first game in the big dance against Missouri once, so,,,,,and our track and field used to help us win the All Sports award a number of years. Baseball is pretty good at NSU, as well as bowling. We're good. I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody would assume that NSU might be better off in D2?  :shrug:

Size and number of buildings on a campus has nothing to do with you belonging in a division. WSSU has grown also, but we are definitely a DII school. Go on line and take a look at some DII schools... you will be amazed. Look at their campuses and enrollments and you will re-think your comments.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: punchy on September 20, 2018, 05:19:48 PM
Que should Alabama A&M be D1? Can you answer that question without going into a hyper-defensive rant?

I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy.

Now tell us about your thoughts on A&M. :popcorn:
Alabama A&M should be D1 just as much as any other HBCU at that level.  Our school is not in financial peril of closing because of our sports program.  In fact we are building and growing.  We are about as productive as the state of Alabama will allow us to be.  When you look at overall sustained success in athletics programs there is not one "legit" as you call D1 because HBCU success is cyclic.  So as I said before put down your rock before you break a wall in your glass house.

"I will tell you that I would love if Howard were in a D2 conference with Morehouse, Tuskegee, and even if Hampton would move with us into a Black Ivy."

Now if that statement doesn't sound pretentious I don't know what does.  :shrug: I guess you guys are the one's who drive the Mercedes while living in the projects.  :lol:  So you Black Ivies (I guess that's less than legit Ivy) can keep looking down your jaundice eyes at us lessor HBCUs.  :nod:

For your information and edification when attacked, defense is a common response. :popcorn:

I have to respectfully agree with Que82. NSU has definitely grown! It seems there is always construction going on at SPARTA, and I love it! I think NSU belongs at the FCS level for football,,,,,maybe not JMU or NDSU-SDSU level yet, but we're getting there. Basketball is getting there. We did advance past the first game in the big dance against Missouri once, so,,,,,and our track and field used to help us win the All Sports award a number of years. Baseball is pretty good at NSU, as well as bowling. We're good. I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody would assume that NSU might be better off in D2?  :shrug:

Size and number of buildings on a campus has nothing to do with you belonging in a division. WSSU has grown also, but we are definitely a DII school. Go on line and take a look at some DII schools... you will be amazed. Look at their campuses and enrollments and you will re-think your comments.

My perspective goes for the overall status of NSU. Which included buildings. I personally think we've outgrown D2.I don't need to rethink anything. I'm entitled to my opinion, right?  ::)
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 20, 2018, 05:52:10 PM
Be whatever you can afford to be.  If your school can afford to be D1 and you can sustain the costs without hurting the school overall, if that's what you want to be, be it. If you can't afford to be D1 then be all/what you can be.  Every school on the FBS level is not competing for the ship but the white folks aren't saying they aren't legit FBS.  That's something that people with a crab mentality do.  We have been on the D1 level 19 years and our school has not suffered because of it.  Have we been as competitive as we would like?, no, but if we ain't talking about dropping down what concern is it of yours????  Thing is we are not willing to throw all our funding into an athletic budget to earn a title that will cost us more than we earn.  :shrug:  If you want to tell me what to do in my house you need to pay the mortgage.  If you are not paying it when and what we do is no concern of yours even if we lose a game by 1000 points. :popcorn:  Someone said when one HBCU looks bad we all do, well if your school were winning nobody would think that and this would be an isolated incident.  :shrug: :tiptoe:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 20, 2018, 07:56:32 PM
Be whatever you can afford to be.  If your school can afford to be D1 and you can sustain the costs without hurting the school overall, if that's what you want to be, be it. If you can't afford to be D1 then be all/what you can be.  Every school on the FBS level is not competing for the ship but the white folks aren't saying they aren't legit FBS.  That's something that people with a crab mentality do.  We have been on the D1 level 19 years and our school has not suffered because of it.  Have we been as competitive as we would like?, no, but if we ain't talking about dropping down what concern is it of yours????  Thing is we are not willing to throw all our funding into an athletic budget to earn a title that will cost us more than we earn.  :shrug:  If you want to tell me what to do in my house you need to pay the mortgage.  If you are not paying it when and what we do is no concern of yours even if we lose a game by 1000 points. :popcorn:  Someone said when one HBCU looks bad we all do, well if your school were winning nobody would think that and this would be an isolated incident.  :shrug: :tiptoe:

Okay buddy ;) be you.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 20, 2018, 08:39:24 PM
Be whatever you can afford to be.  If your school can afford to be D1 and you can sustain the costs without hurting the school overall, if that's what you want to be, be it. If you can't afford to be D1 then be all/what you can be.  Every school on the FBS level is not competing for the ship but the white folks aren't saying they aren't legit FBS.  That's something that people with a crab mentality do.  We have been on the D1 level 19 years and our school has not suffered because of it.  Have we been as competitive as we would like?, no, but if we ain't talking about dropping down what concern is it of yours????  Thing is we are not willing to throw all our funding into an athletic budget to earn a title that will cost us more than we earn.  :shrug:  If you want to tell me what to do in my house you need to pay the mortgage.  If you are not paying it when and what we do is no concern of yours even if we lose a game by 1000 points. :popcorn:  Someone said when one HBCU looks bad we all do, well if your school were winning nobody would think that and this would be an isolated incident.  :shrug: :tiptoe:

Okay buddy ;) be you.
Okay dipstick  ;D stay in your lane.  Since you desire to call me something else beside Que82 I will show the same courtesy to you.  :nod:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: AimHigh on September 20, 2018, 11:50:41 PM
Be whatever you can afford to be.  If your school can afford to be D1 and you can sustain the costs without hurting the school overall, if that's what you want to be, be it. If you can't afford to be D1 then be all/what you can be.  Every school on the FBS level is not competing for the ship but the white folks aren't saying they aren't legit FBS.  That's something that people with a crab mentality do.  We have been on the D1 level 19 years and our school has not suffered because of it.  Have we been as competitive as we would like?, no, but if we ain't talking about dropping down what concern is it of yours????  Thing is we are not willing to throw all our funding into an athletic budget to earn a title that will cost us more than we earn.  :shrug:  If you want to tell me what to do in my house you need to pay the mortgage.  If you are not paying it when and what we do is no concern of yours even if we lose a game by 1000 points. :popcorn:  Someone said when one HBCU looks bad we all do, well if your school were winning nobody would think that and this would be an isolated incident.  :shrug: :tiptoe:

Okay buddy ;) be you.
Okay dipstick  ;D stay in your lane.  Since you desire to call me something else beside Que82 I will show the same courtesy to you.  :nod:

:lol: Haha this is funny! Have a good one Que.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: ‘87 Alum on September 21, 2018, 09:41:51 AM
This right here is some Hall Of Fame smack....

Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::). 

Why am I having flashbacks to Jim Rome and Jim Everett going at it on ESPN2....when Rome called Jim Everett “Chris” to his face...

:lmao:

Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: punchy on September 22, 2018, 12:16:01 AM
What D2 HBCUs are legit D2 and which D2 HBCUs should be D3?
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: The Watcher on September 22, 2018, 01:23:51 AM
What D2 HBCUs are legit D2 and which D2 HBCUs should be D3?

Lincoln, SAU and Livingstone. Maybe NAIA.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: BisonBlu on September 22, 2018, 03:44:57 AM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedyfbUUr0Y

For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M.


For one, moving up in the MEAC does not make you a legit D1, it makes you a legit MEAC school.  Therefore the conference argument is not germane.

Men's Sports (as listed on your website)
1. Basketball
2. Football
3. Cross Country
4. Soccer
5. Swimming and Diving
6. Track and Field
7  Tennis

Women's Sports

8.  Basketball
9.  Bowling
10. Cross Country
11. Lacrosse
12. Soccer
13. Softball
14. Swimming & Diving
15. Tennis
16. Track & Field
17. Volleyball

https://hubison.com/

I'm not a math whiz but unless you are counting Spades and Bid Whist you come up short of supporting 19 sports. :shrug:

"When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons."

Last 6 years records

Basketball  2017 10-23, 2016 10-24, 2015 12-20, 2014 16-16, 2013 9-22, 2012 9-22

Football  2017 7-4, 2016 2-9, 2015 1-10, 2014 5-7, 2013 6-6, 2012 7-4

Cross Country 2017 8th MEAC, 2017 10th MEAC 2016 7th MEAC, 2015 4th MEAC 2014

Soccer 2017 2-15-3, 2016  2-15-3, 2015 0-17-2, 2014 2-15-2, 2013 1-17, 2012 3-16

MEN'S SWIMMING AND DIVING 2017 8-4, 2016 5-6, 2015 1-7, 2014 0-10, 2013 0-11, 2012

Men's Tennis  2017 1-15, 2016 1-13, 2015 3-16, 2014 3-13, 2013 2-16, 2012 8-2

MEN'S TRACK AND FIELD 2017 13th MEAC, 2016 No Data, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 No Data

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL  2017 12-18, 2016 16-13, 2015 7-24, 2014 4-27, 2013 11-20, 2012 20-12

WOMEN'S BOWLING 2017 28-68, 2016 45-74, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 2015 No Data

Softball 2018 8-37, 2017 4-34  2016 9-32   2015 14-29  2014 4-36  2013 7-18

Volleyball 2017 16-16  2016 26-6   2015 18-14  2014 20-11  2013 21-11  2012 No Data

Whew that's enough and more than the majority.  I get that y'all have money but from the looks of the above your overall program is as sh!tty as us broke mugs.  :shrug:  So for someone from HU to try to tell me we should drop down and y'all could go either way as a legit D1 bears no merit. :shrug:

"Liars figure but figures don't lie." 

By the looks of it, your budget has no significant impact on your competitiveness except in one non-revenue sport. :shrug:

So, I’m not sure if you know but track and field has an indoor and outdoor season. And that’s how youve missed count.  I see that you’ve also omitted the stats of women’s soccer. Howard won the SWAC title in ‘14 &’15 and has not loss 10 conference games since joining. I see that you are quick to use selective facts.  By no way are we a Power 5 school but compared to our peers and within the Mid-Atlantic Region we are competitive.
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 22, 2018, 08:01:32 AM
Punchy I think you have a valid point. I think the equation for a legitimate program looks like this.

Resources + Competitiveness = Program Quality

A school may be strong enough on one that balances deficiencies in the other. If you are strong in both of these, you are very strong and your presence is a no brainer. If you are strong on one of these, then you at least belong at the party. If you are mediocre in both, then you could go either way. If you are weak in both, then you are at the wrong party and belong in D2.
Please cite evidence of Howard's competitiveness and program quality since you have resources. :popcorn:  Also, please share Howard's bottom line so we all can access whether or not your budget makes you a legit competitor because your previous years records in those sports you cited about others tell a different story.  Show us your information so you can speak from a point of authority rather than speaking because your private school budget is anonymous.  One thing we do know based on your attendance, is your revenue ain't coming from ticket sales.  :shrug: Also why don't you have a baseball team since most legit D1 schools have one????  Why is your soccer team in the non-competitive SWAC instead of a legit PWI conference????  So please drop your rock if your house is glass. I don't remember anyone asking if y'all were legitimate when you lost 76-0 and 76-19 another. I think a more constructive use of your time would have been making sure Howard was a legit D1 before starting this thread. :shrug: Like I said in another thread "Liars figure, but figures don't lie"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedyfbUUr0Y

For HBCU’s with populations under 5k. There maybe some thought as to D-I status. When it comes to Howard we all know that as a private school they do not have to disclose finances. But I’m pretty sure that the total budget is amongst the top half of not the highest in the MEAC.  When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons. If not they have made tough decisions and changes have occurred. As a result we’ve seen FB with the hiring of Coach London and moving to #3 in conference, VB as the three time defending champions and WSOC has won the SWAC several times since joining the conference. Is it ideal to play in this conference, no, but you have to build a foundation somewhere before you move on.  Just because other schools have baseball doesn’t mean we need to fund it. Instead we have swimming and diving.

The ability to sustain 19 varsity sports shows that Howard belongs at the D-I level.  In the end resources do make a great difference there’s no two ways about that. But there’s clearly a plan in place as we’ve seen steady improvements in athletics to go along with the new ranking of #89 nationally and an endowment high of over 750M.


For one, moving up in the MEAC does not make you a legit D1, it makes you a legit MEAC school.  Therefore the conference argument is not germane.

Men's Sports (as listed on your website)
1. Basketball
2. Football
3. Cross Country
4. Soccer
5. Swimming and Diving
6. Track and Field
7  Tennis

Women's Sports

8.  Basketball
9.  Bowling
10. Cross Country
11. Lacrosse
12. Soccer
13. Softball
14. Swimming & Diving
15. Tennis
16. Track & Field
17. Volleyball

https://hubison.com/

I'm not a math whiz but unless you are counting Spades and Bid Whist you come up short of supporting 19 sports. :shrug:

"When you look at it Howard has been competitive in the majority of sports within the past 6 seasons."

Last 6 years records

Basketball  2017 10-23, 2016 10-24, 2015 12-20, 2014 16-16, 2013 9-22, 2012 9-22

Football  2017 7-4, 2016 2-9, 2015 1-10, 2014 5-7, 2013 6-6, 2012 7-4

Cross Country 2017 8th MEAC, 2017 10th MEAC 2016 7th MEAC, 2015 4th MEAC 2014

Soccer 2017 2-15-3, 2016  2-15-3, 2015 0-17-2, 2014 2-15-2, 2013 1-17, 2012 3-16

MEN'S SWIMMING AND DIVING 2017 8-4, 2016 5-6, 2015 1-7, 2014 0-10, 2013 0-11, 2012

Men's Tennis  2017 1-15, 2016 1-13, 2015 3-16, 2014 3-13, 2013 2-16, 2012 8-2

MEN'S TRACK AND FIELD 2017 13th MEAC, 2016 No Data, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 No Data

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL  2017 12-18, 2016 16-13, 2015 7-24, 2014 4-27, 2013 11-20, 2012 20-12

WOMEN'S BOWLING 2017 28-68, 2016 45-74, 2015 No Data, 2014 No Data, 2013 No Data, 2012 2015 No Data

Softball 2018 8-37, 2017 4-34  2016 9-32   2015 14-29  2014 4-36  2013 7-18

Volleyball 2017 16-16  2016 26-6   2015 18-14  2014 20-11  2013 21-11  2012 No Data

Whew that's enough and more than the majority.  I get that y'all have money but from the looks of the above your overall program is as sh!tty as us broke mugs.  :shrug:  So for someone from HU to try to tell me we should drop down and y'all could go either way as a legit D1 bears no merit. :shrug:

"Liars figure but figures don't lie." 

By the looks of it, your budget has no significant impact on your competitiveness except in one non-revenue sport. :shrug:

So, I’m not sure if you know but track and field has an indoor and outdoor season. And that’s how youve missed count.  I see that you’ve also omitted the stats of women’s soccer. Howard won the SWAC title in ‘14 &’15 and has not loss 10 conference games since joining. I see that you are quick to use selective facts.  By no way are we a Power 5 school but compared to our peers and within the Mid-Atlantic Region we are competitive.
I posted what was listed on your website. They didn't list it as separate nor does anyone else.  :shrug: Do you have a different set of athletes running indoor and outdoor???? As I said before, we were talking about being a legit D1 in reference to winning against D1s overall and all you want to talk about is what you did in HBCU competition.  But since you asked.

Women's Soccer

2017  9-10-1  1-1 in SWAC Tourney Bama St went to NCAA

2016  13-4-3  Beat SU, 1-1 in SWAC Tourney Bama St went to NCAA

2015  13-8-2  Won SWAC Tourney, lost to Virginia in NCAA

2014  13-9-1  Won SWAC Tourney  PVAM to NCAA

2013  6-7-2  Jackson St to NCAA

2012  7-15   Miss Valley to NCAA
 
What about this, based on your ample finances, makes you are a legit D1 HBCU more so than anyone else???? You seem to be in a hole, so its probably best to stop digging. :shrug:
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: Que82 on September 22, 2018, 08:10:00 AM
If you think my stats are selective, please feel free to post the correct one's.  I'll wait...
Title: Re: Which HBCUs are legit D1 and which should drop to D2?
Post by: FunCkMaster on September 22, 2018, 11:49:41 PM
This right here is some Hall Of Fame smack....

Buddy eats sh!t and runs rabbits so don't call me buddy ::). 

Why am I having flashbacks to Jim Rome and Jim Everett going at it on ESPN2....when Rome called Jim Everett “Chris” to his face...

:lmao:

"Bet you won't call me that again."

"I betcha I will...Chris!"

*Scuffle Scuffle Scuffle B-B-B-B-B-BOOM!"*