Onnidan Fan Forum

Discussion => Politics => Topic started by: Bison 4 Life on February 12, 2016, 10:49:38 AM

Title: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 12, 2016, 10:49:38 AM
Hillary Clinton loves black people. And black people love Hillary—or so it seems. Black politicians have lined up in droves to endorse her, eager to prove their loyalty to the Clintons in the hopes that their faithfulness will be remembered and rewarded. Black pastors are opening their church doors, and the Clintons are making themselves comfortably at home once again, engaging effortlessly in all the usual rituals associated with “courting the black vote,” a pursuit that typically begins and ends with Democratic politicians making black people feel liked and taken seriously. Doing something concrete to improve the conditions under which most black people live is generally not required.

Hillary is looking to gain momentum on the campaign trail as the primaries move out of Iowa and New Hampshire and into states like South Carolina, where large pockets of black voters can be found. According to some polls, she leads Bernie Sanders by as much as 60 percent among African Americans. It seems that we—black people—are her winning card, one that Hillary is eager to play.

And it seems we’re eager to get played. Again.

The love affair between black folks and the Clintons has been going on for a long time. It began back in 1992, when Bill Clinton was running for president. He threw on some shades and played the saxophone on The Arsenio Hall Show. It seems silly in retrospect, but many of us fell for that. At a time when a popular slogan was “It’s a black thing, you wouldn’t understand,” Bill Clinton seemed to get us. When Toni Morrison dubbed him our first black president, we nodded our heads. We had our boy in the White House. Or at least we thought we did.
 http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/ (http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/)
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: eagle pride on February 12, 2016, 11:06:09 AM
Well, I am with Clinton. 
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: CU1994 on February 12, 2016, 11:15:48 AM
Trump Clinton who are you voting for? :shrug:
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Dog in Me on February 12, 2016, 11:42:44 AM
Personally I thought it was an insult to us to refer to him as the first Black pres. However if Hillary wins the nomination who do you vote for. I favor not one of the right now leaders in the GOP. Kasich is the only one right now I'd listen to.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Ken on February 12, 2016, 02:11:19 PM
Yea Blacks voting for the GOP is a like chickens voting for colonel sanders.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: eagle pride on February 12, 2016, 02:21:45 PM
Yea Blacks voting for the GOP is a like chickens voting for colonel sanders.



Now ain't that the truth.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Sierra on February 12, 2016, 02:36:19 PM
Personally I thought it was an insult to us to refer to him as the first Black pres. However if Hillary wins the nomination who do you vote for. I favor not one of the right now leaders in the GOP. Kasich is the only one right now I'd listen to.

^^^ My wife and I both agree Kasich seems to be a viable candidate. I do think I would support him instead of Sanders.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: cee dog on February 12, 2016, 02:51:28 PM
Any black person supporting the Republican party needs to join the KKK.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Strike79 on February 12, 2016, 04:04:19 PM
Personally I thought it was an insult to us to refer to him as the first Black pres. However if Hillary wins the nomination who do you vote for. I favor not one of the right now leaders in the GOP. Kasich is the only one right now I'd listen to.

^^^ My wife and I both agree Kasich seems to be a viable candidate. I do think I would support him instead of Sanders.
:no:...............Sierra, while I too would agree that Gov. Kasich appears to be the most SANE of the GOP presidential candidates, Kasich has made it VERY CLEAR in his varied utterances during the myriad GOP debates that, if elected, he would proceed to dismantling much of the Obama presidential legacy.  Sen. Sanders, on the other hand, has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that not only will he extend the president's progressive legacy, but would even go further.

This is going to be a TOUGH presidential election year for negroes in this country.  :(
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: CU1994 on February 12, 2016, 04:44:04 PM
I'm struggling with anyone who would vote Republican in this election with the GOP controlling Congress. While  I think the gov of Ohio is a decent man, he will be with the hard right much more than you think. He is already trying to claim his Tea Party street cred by signing a bill to defund Planned Parenthood. It's not about voting for an individual, we have think more strategically than that. Some y'all are going to vote for Kaisich and by default, vote for 2-3 more Scalias on the Supreme Court. :no:
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Dog in Me on February 12, 2016, 04:49:41 PM
Yeah, Kasich has hardened his political stance weekly and will probably get a very bad case of convenient amnesia should he do well in upcoming events. These folks will do/say anything for votes
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 12, 2016, 05:12:42 PM
I think her stance was a critique of the Black group think on the Clintons. There is an alternative on the Dem side at least for now.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Sierra on February 12, 2016, 05:42:02 PM
Personally I thought it was an insult to us to refer to him as the first Black pres. However if Hillary wins the nomination who do you vote for. I favor not one of the right now leaders in the GOP. Kasich is the only one right now I'd listen to.

^^^ My wife and I both agree Kasich seems to be a viable candidate. I do think I would support him instead of Sanders.
:no:...............Sierra, while I too would agree that Gov. Kasich appears to be the most SANE of the GOP presidential candidates, Kasich has made it VERY CLEAR in his varied utterances during the myriad GOP debates that, if elected, he would proceed to dismantling much of the Obama presidential legacy.  Sen. Sanders, on the other hand, has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that not only will he extend the president's progressive legacy, but would even go further.

This is going to be a TOUGH presidential election year for negroes in this country.  :(
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: JBROB on February 12, 2016, 06:30:08 PM
Bernie Sanders
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Sierra on February 12, 2016, 10:04:24 PM
Personally I thought it was an insult to us to refer to him as the first Black pres. However if Hillary wins the nomination who do you vote for. I favor not one of the right now leaders in the GOP. Kasich is the only one right now I'd listen to.

^^^ My wife and I both agree Kasich seems to be a viable candidate. I do think I would support him instead of Sanders.
:no:...............Sierra, while I too would agree that Gov. Kasich appears to be the most SANE of the GOP presidential candidates, Kasich has made it VERY CLEAR in his varied utterances during the myriad GOP debates that, if elected, he would proceed to dismantling much of the Obama presidential legacy.  Sen. Sanders, on the other hand, has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that not only will he extend the president's progressive legacy, but would even go further.

This is going to be a TOUGH presidential election year for negroes in this country.  :(
[/quote
Strike  , but isn't Sanders an independent, who philosophy isn't always democratic?   
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Strike79 on February 12, 2016, 10:15:16 PM
Personally I thought it was an insult to us to refer to him as the first Black pres. However if Hillary wins the nomination who do you vote for. I favor not one of the right now leaders in the GOP. Kasich is the only one right now I'd listen to.

^^^ My wife and I both agree Kasich seems to be a viable candidate. I do think I would support him instead of Sanders.
:no:...............Sierra, while I too would agree that Gov. Kasich appears to be the most SANE of the GOP presidential candidates, Kasich has made it VERY CLEAR in his varied utterances during the myriad GOP debates that, if elected, he would proceed to dismantling much of the Obama presidential legacy.  Sen. Sanders, on the other hand, has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that not only will he extend the president's progressive legacy, but would even go further.

This is going to be a TOUGH presidential election year for negroes in this country.  :(
[/quote
Strike  , but isn't Sanders an independent, who philosophy isn't always democratic?   
Answer: Yes. However, as a declared Independent, Bernie's political views are a hell of a lot closer to general Democratic orthodoxy than are the GOP conservative views espoused by Gov. Kasich.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: y04185 on February 12, 2016, 10:33:34 PM
You people will vote for Hillary.  You people always fall for the okie doke. 

Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: cee dog on February 12, 2016, 10:36:05 PM
Kasich is signing a bill to defund plan parent hood which is aimed at hurting minorities and you folks would rarher have him instead of Bernie Sanders? Kasich  also tried to hurt Central St a HBCU in his state and you want him? Wow! I better not hear yall never talk about Y or oldsport again., For real!
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: CU1994 on February 12, 2016, 10:57:59 PM
You people will vote for Hillary.  You people always fall for the okie doke. 



And you will vote for the confirmed white supremacist Trump. If he had his way, those innocent kids is NY would be dead.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: EB on February 13, 2016, 11:26:20 AM
Kasich is signing a bill to defund plan parent hood which is aimed at hurting minorities and you folks would rarher have him instead of Bernie Sanders? Kasich  also tried to hurt Central St a HBCU in his state and you want him? Wow! I better not hear yall never talk about Y or oldsport again., For real!

One should not be fooled by Kasich's "moderate" stances.

----------

An Extremist in Moderate Clothing (http://thinkprogress.org/progress-report/an-extremist-in-moderate-clothing/)

by CAP Action War Room Feb 12, 2016 5:19 pm

Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Golden Kitten on February 13, 2016, 01:26:33 PM
Yes, get 87 in here to speak on Kasich since he"s in Cinci... :nod:

He is a lot more conservative than he appears...  :read:
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Sierra on February 13, 2016, 02:33:27 PM
Kasich is signing a bill to defund plan parent hood which is aimed at hurting minorities and you folks would rarher have him instead of Bernie Sanders? Kasich  also tried to hurt Central St a HBCU in his state and you want him? Wow! I better not hear yall never talk about Y or oldsport again., For real!

WELL.. CEE Dog you have slapped me around a couple of times.. however I am not offended. I would hope that all the promises stated reaches fruition.
I am reminded some yrs. ago here in Ga. during the late 60'2 when that SOB Lester Maddox won the governorship. If you all recall he was the one with the ax handle denying "colored people" into his restaurant. Well not long after he was elected he pushed for and the 1st. Black GBI agent (Dearing) and state trooper were hired. That REALLY upset the cart. In addition Georgia's scols began integrating.
On a personal note ..the year was 1968 and just returning from Nam..and a little silly, my driver's permit were suspended for 30 days. Well on about the 33rd. day my permit hadn't arrived as promised....So I wrote Maddox's office and within 3 days his office responded by way of a letter that my permit would be arriving soon. My permit arrived the next day, with a not so nice letter from the Ga. State Patrol. BUT Maddox was still a SOB and especially for preventing state facilities to low the state flag during Dr. King's funeral.
As with any politician time will tell>>>>>
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: aggiejazz on February 13, 2016, 05:37:08 PM
It is not about voting for a political party but about making candidates work for your support, black vote, with real actions.

No political party has supported giving Blacks their Reparations.

Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 13, 2016, 06:35:20 PM
You people will vote for Hillary.  You people always fall for the okie doke.

We know, despite what you say here, that you voted for Obama.
We thank you.

Now you will return to form and do as you are told and vote for Trump or Cruz or whomever the Repubs nominate.

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Strike79 on February 13, 2016, 06:56:46 PM
It is not about voting for a political party but about making candidates work for your support, black vote, with real actions.

No political party has supported giving Blacks their Reparations.
???.............no disrespect, but all of this^^^^^sounds like a "feigned" argument in support of voting for Gov. Kasich as an alternative GOP candidate to Bernie or Mrs. Clinton.

So at this point you'd be well advised to direct your attention to what cee dog said on this page^^^about that so-called "moderate" GOP presidential candidate.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: aggiejazz on February 13, 2016, 09:33:09 PM
I am not pushing for a moderate Republican,  but I would take old man Bush over the Clintons and his son Bush, Jr and Jeb.

I am still haven't done deep research on Bernie but it is going to be a dog fight for the Presidency.  A energetic and highly likeable Obama with his brilliant election team just got over the hump against Romney.

We just have to be prepared to fight smartly, no matter who is the next President.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: CU1994 on February 14, 2016, 08:14:17 AM
I am not pushing for a moderate Republican,  but I would take old man Bush over the Clintons and his son Bush, Jr and Jeb.

I am still haven't done deep research on Bernie but it is going to be a dog fight for the Presidency.  A energetic and highly likeable Obama with his brilliant election team just got over the hump against Romney.

We just have to be prepared to fight smartly, no matter who is the next President.

The bottom line is a vote for a Republican in this election is a vote for the Tea Party.  T
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: aggiejazz on February 14, 2016, 10:23:12 AM
I don't think blacks should just fall for "it is the Democrats and nothing else".   We have to face the Republicans and fight, and we do it locally and state-wide, first.

Our ancestors and great-great grand parents only had a couple allies in either party but they went after both, pushing and forcing and fighting for their rights.  The strategy of only working with one political party in these current times will only mean incremental positive changes, on occasion.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 14, 2016, 10:41:21 AM
The  Black community needs its version of the Tea Party to move the political narrative. Black Lives Matter is not that vehicle. First its been hijacked and second its more reactive than proactive.  We need more than clinced fist photo ops.

But we also need the 2016 version of Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young's as well. A multi  pronged plan of attack.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 14, 2016, 11:18:47 AM
The  Black community needs its version of the Tea Party to move the political narrative. Black Lives Matter is not that vehicle. First its been hijacked and second its more reactive than proactive.  We need more than clinced fist photo ops.

But we also need the 2016 version of Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young's as well. A multi  pronged plan of attack.

I think the facts say otherwise.
Black Lives Matter HAS MOVED the political narrative....on the Dem side.

Bernie moved.  Clinton reacted.  O'Malley caught flack.

At least one of the BLM members has filed for political office.

For a grass roots movement I think they have done quite well in quite a short time period.

They're struck a chord with young people and have pushed the needle in terms of AWARENESS (very important) and accountability of bad-acting police.

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 14, 2016, 11:23:22 AM
I don't think blacks should just fall for "it is the Democrats and nothing else".   We have to face the Republicans and fight, and we do it locally and state-wide, first.

Our ancestors and great-great grand parents only had a couple allies in either party but they went after both, pushing and forcing and fighting for their rights.  The strategy of only working with one political party in these current times will only mean incremental positive changes, on occasion.

There is nothing to "fall for," Aggie.

Even Black Republicans admit that the GOP has offered very little to Black folks to gain our support since the 70's.....................

That would be the 1870's when they turned around and stabbed Black folks in the back.

As always, we have a choice between two parties NEITHER OF WHICH has our best interest at heart.  But one of them, since the 1970's, has consistently courted the votes of those who straight up oppose our agenda of opportunity, voting rights and ending discrimination.

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 14, 2016, 11:53:29 AM
The  Black community needs its version of the Tea Party to move the political narrative. Black Lives Matter is not that vehicle. First its been hijacked and second its more reactive than proactive.  We need more than clinced fist photo ops.

But we also need the 2016 version of Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young's as well. A multi  pronged plan of attack.

I think the facts say otherwise.
Black Lives Matter HAS MOVED the political narrative....on the Dem side.

Bernie moved.  Clinton reacted.  O'Malley caught flack.

At least one of the BLM members has filed for political office.

For a grass roots movement I think they have done quite well in quite a short time period.

They're struck a chord with young people and have pushed the needle in terms of AWARENESS (very important) and accountability of bad-acting police.

O0

The narrative has been moved how? A few questions during a debate. :shrug:Where is the policy? Wait until after SC and the primaries in the south. The same old narrative will take shape. Sorry 66, nothing has changed.

You'll see the same photo ops with the same public figures you all know and love.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 14, 2016, 12:00:58 PM
The  Black community needs its version of the Tea Party to move the political narrative. Black Lives Matter is not that vehicle. First its been hijacked and second its more reactive than proactive.  We need more than clinced fist photo ops.

But we also need the 2016 version of Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young's as well. A multi  pronged plan of attack.

I think the facts say otherwise.
Black Lives Matter HAS MOVED the political narrative....on the Dem side.

Bernie moved.  Clinton reacted.  O'Malley caught flack.

At least one of the BLM members has filed for political office.

For a grass roots movement I think they have done quite well in quite a short time period.

They're struck a chord with young people and have pushed the needle in terms of AWARENESS (very important) and accountability of bad-acting police.

O0

The narrative has been moved how? A few questions during a debate. :shrug:Where is the policy? Wait until after SC and the primaries in the south. The same old narrative will take shape. Sorry 66, nothing has changed.

You'll see the same photo ops with the same public figures you all know and love.

You said "narrative", not me my Brother.

Policy is another question.

But tell me if you think it is PURELY coincidental that Sanders and Clinton are talking about police misconduct/accountability and mass incarceration. 

Is it, in your opinion, because the NAACP or Urban League raised the issue??  Or Sharpton or Jackson?

IMO it is DEFINITELY and DIRECTLY due to Black Lives Matter and related activism.
O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: aggiejazz on February 14, 2016, 03:49:56 PM
The  Black community needs its version of the Tea Party to move the political narrative. Black Lives Matter is not that vehicle. First its been hijacked and second its more reactive than proactive.  We need more than clinced fist photo ops.

But we also need the 2016 version of Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young's as well. A multi  pronged plan of attack.

I think the facts say otherwise.
Black Lives Matter HAS MOVED the political narrative....on the Dem side.

Bernie moved.  Clinton reacted.  O'Malley caught flack.

At least one of the BLM members has filed for political office.

For a grass roots movement I think they have done quite well in quite a short time period.

They're struck a chord with young people and have pushed the needle in terms of AWARENESS (very important) and accountability of bad-acting police.

O0

The narrative has been moved how? A few questions during a debate. :shrug:Where is the policy? Wait until after SC and the primaries in the south. The same old narrative will take shape. Sorry 66, nothing has changed.

You'll see the same photo ops with the same public figures you all know and love.

You said "narrative", not me my Brother.

Policy is another question.

But tell me if you think it is PURELY coincidental that Sanders and Clinton are talking about police misconduct/accountability and mass incarceration. 

Is it, in your opinion, because the NAACP or Urban League raised the issue??  Or Sharpton or Jackson?

IMO it is DEFINITELY and DIRECTLY due to Black Lives Matter and related activism.
O0

I agree B66, and that is why we have to be the force to affect change.  We all know that forcing change isn't a one week protest.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: aggiejazz on February 14, 2016, 03:55:57 PM
I don't think blacks should just fall for "it is the Democrats and nothing else".   We have to face the Republicans and fight, and we do it locally and state-wide, first.

Our ancestors and great-great grand parents only had a couple allies in either party but they went after both, pushing and forcing and fighting for their rights.  The strategy of only working with one political party in these current times will only mean incremental positive changes, on occasion.

There is nothing to "fall for," Aggie.

Even Black Republicans admit that the GOP has offered very little to Black folks to gain our support since the 70's.....................

That would be the 1870's when they turned around and stabbed Black folks in the back.

As always, we have a choice between two parties NEITHER OF WHICH has our best interest at heart.  But one of them, since the 1970's, has consistently courted the votes of those who straight up oppose our agenda of opportunity, voting rights and ending discrimination.

O0

A lot of black people live in Republican controlled localities and states, so we can't run to the Democrats.  This is why I say we have to deal with this Republican Party at the local and state level, first.  The Tea Party recognized this game, though they have more allies than we do, so we have to figure out things a little differently.

Paraphrasing "Kermit the Frog" which will get me joked  ;D, "Being Black ain't easy"
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 14, 2016, 04:20:46 PM
Sirius/XM radio host Karen Hunter launched something called "Party of Lincoln " device for Black voters to use in the primary process to do just what the above poster is advocating in a sense.
http://www.karenhuntershow.com/#!party-of-lincoln/c1hk8 (http://www.karenhuntershow.com/#!party-of-lincoln/c1hk8)
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: EB on February 14, 2016, 11:54:03 PM
While Black Lives Matter had made it voice be heard and influenced the democratic campaign, I am in a wait and see mode.  I would not say that they are having the impact that the civil rights and Black power groups did during the '50s and '60s.

Right now I am seeing photo ops, social media communication and clinched fist photos.  We will need more than those things.

Also, I will give more credit to the people in the streets as many did during the 1950s and '60s.

One piece of advice that I have for BLM is that they learn from what happened during the past.  It goes for the 1950s and '60s and other movements that came before those decades.

Though the Tea Party lost some races in the 2014 primaries, they moved the GOP to the right.  They had and are still having an effect.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: j1908 on February 15, 2016, 07:23:32 AM
Well, I am with Clinton. 

Co-sign
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: CU1994 on February 15, 2016, 08:35:22 AM
Two words: Supreme Court
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 15, 2016, 11:15:41 AM
Well if you look at her main donors this will give you a glimpse of who she'll be beholden to if she gets in.


https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?cycle=2016&id=N00000019&type=f (https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?cycle=2016&id=N00000019&type=f)
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 15, 2016, 07:39:20 PM
The  Black community needs its version of the Tea Party to move the political narrative. Black Lives Matter is not that vehicle. First its been hijacked and second its more reactive than proactive.  We need more than clinced fist photo ops.

But we also need the 2016 version of Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young's as well. A multi  pronged plan of attack.

I think the facts say otherwise.
Black Lives Matter HAS MOVED the political narrative....on the Dem side.

Bernie moved.  Clinton reacted.  O'Malley caught flack.

At least one of the BLM members has filed for political office.

For a grass roots movement I think they have done quite well in quite a short time period.

They're struck a chord with young people and have pushed the needle in terms of AWARENESS (very important) and accountability of bad-acting police.

O0

The narrative has been moved how? A few questions during a debate. :shrug:Where is the policy? Wait until after SC and the primaries in the south. The same old narrative will take shape. Sorry 66, nothing has changed.

You'll see the same photo ops with the same public figures you all know and love.

You said "narrative", not me my Brother.

Policy is another question.

But tell me if you think it is PURELY coincidental that Sanders and Clinton are talking about police misconduct/accountability and mass incarceration. 

Is it, in your opinion, because the NAACP or Urban League raised the issue??  Or Sharpton or Jackson?

IMO it is DEFINITELY and DIRECTLY due to Black Lives Matter and related activism.
O0

Bison4Life?

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 15, 2016, 07:44:52 PM
I agree B66, and that is why we have to be the force to affect change.  We all know that forcing change isn't a one week protest.


Not sure, Aggie...

Are you implying that BLM has been a one week protest?

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 17, 2016, 11:32:43 PM
Bison4Life,

Is silence consent?

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: aggiejazz on February 18, 2016, 12:30:43 AM
I agree B66, and that is why we have to be the force to affect change.  We all know that forcing change isn't a one week protest.


Not sure, Aggie...

Are you implying that BLM has been a one week protest?

O0

BLM is more than a one week protest group for sure.  I don't criticize BLM because they are disperse with different local leaders with specific issues and demands so you have to be tuned in to certain cities to know what is happening beyond what you hear on the news.

I was listening to a video of the great historian, John Henri Clarke, he mentioned that not only does a Movement need protesters and artists but a political and social movement also needs builders and managers, too.  People who know how to plan, organize and build infrastructure, non-sexy things like building sewage systems, roads, water treatment plants, power plants, and buildings.  A movement needs people who can manage and run offices that provide services to its people; and need people who knows manage corporate finance, banking, entrepreneurship, and major businesses.

Serious people can make serious demands of politicians, expect positive results and make good on delivering the consequences to politicians when they fail to keep their promises or fail to make a hard effort to keep them.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Ken on February 18, 2016, 08:39:25 AM
BLM is young - Rome was not built in a day- and any black voting GOP is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 18, 2016, 09:39:25 AM
BLM is young but what movement has not been coopted? SNNC, Black Panthers, Pullman Porters, NAACP, Pride Inc, CETA, The Nation of Islam all have have had sellouts and traiters in its ranks.

Sadly with social media you get to see the total of a person when you follow individuals. They'll post about police atrocities then the next day brag on getting good d*ck or good p*ssy the night before. Plus all the dirty laundry is aired for many to see.




Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 18, 2016, 11:03:02 AM
BLM is young but what movement has not been coopted? SNNC, Black Panthers, Pullman Porters, NAACP, Pride Inc, CETA, The Nation of Islam all have have had sellouts and traiters in its ranks.

Sadly with social media you get to see the total of a person when you follow individuals. They'll post about police atrocities then the next day brag on getting good d*ck or good p*ssy the night before. Plus all the dirty laundry is aired for many to see.

B4L,

It would really be cool if you would just say what it is you have against the BLM.

In the past you accused them of putting down HBCU grads, but when I asked for evidence you sent me on a fishing expedition.  But, because I respect you, I went looking - despite you shifting the burden of proof to me.  I came back to tell you I could find nothing.  You provided no evidence for your contention.

In your last post you mention traitors and sell-outs.  OK, that's a given.  We agree.  But they are not the Movement.

No movement and no individual is perfect, but it seems you have a particular problem with the Black Lives Matter movement.  In this thread you said the BLM had not affected the narrative.  I offered my opinion with some evidence to show that they have, but you choose not to deal with it.

That's your choice, B4L.  No problem.

But it would be helpful for you lay it out for us:  What's your problem/concern/disagreemnt/etc. with BLM?

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 18, 2016, 11:05:35 AM
BLM is directionless.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: oldsport on February 18, 2016, 11:29:37 AM
BLM is directionless.


Not only is BLM directionless, it's nothingness.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 18, 2016, 12:15:19 PM
BLM is directionless.


Not only is BLM directionless, it's nothingness.

OS, go sit down somewhere, boy!!  Grown folks are talking here.

Now,...

B4L, as we were saying before OS farted......

It's an up from the bottom grass roots movement.  It is to be expected that it will be amorphous and have spokespersons, but no definitive leaders - except at the local level where folks have stepped up and gone out front.

That's no reason to be dismissive or overly critical.  It's the nature of things.

But even your assertion of BLM being directionless is only accurate if you are looking for an overarching strategy and ideology.

Their direction - from my observation and a bit of conversation with some activists - is quite plain and straightforward:
 
They are representing and projecting the pain and frustration of millions of African/Black people who are sick and tired of cops mistreating, beating, disrespecting and killings our people with impunity.

BLM has highlighted LIKE NO ONE ELSE HAS the egregious violations of our rights and law-breaking by police and prosecutorial malfeasance.  In just a few short - very short - years, there has been a change and SOME bad cops are starting to be held accountable.  A few are even being indicted and a few convicted.  But it's clear to everyone that Black folks ain't sitting back no more while racist police violence and terrorism continue unpunished.

If BLM didn't do that, WHO do you think brought that about?

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 18, 2016, 12:31:20 PM
Bison 66,


When Ferguson and Baltimore  began, I was following realtime thru activists on the ground via U-stream, Twitter and  other social media platforms. I followed many on Twitter and elsewhere and saw a pattern develop.
BLM has a large percentage of "leaders" from the LGBT community. That in itself is not a bad thing. I noticed far too many  from that group  had other agendas that bubbled to the surface. So a protest about a child getting shot evolved its the lives of trans women and other side issues that cluttered the message.


 Also everyone with a BLM t-shirt is not part of the movement. too many people were doing stunts to get face time on social media. Everything from groups of women baring their breasts in San Francisco in the middle of rush hour to  protesting  cafeteria foods at colleges were coming under BLM. It sadly became a fad . Like Joe Madison says a moment does not make a  movement and BLM has had a lot of moments.Add to the fact that George Soros  allegedly  bankrolled some of these "activists" gives me pause.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 18, 2016, 12:38:49 PM
Bison 66,


When Ferguson and Baltimore  began, I was following realtime thru activists on the ground via U-stream, Twitter and  other social media platforms. I followed many on Twitter and elsewhere and saw a pattern develop.
BLM has a large percentage of "leaders" from the LGBT community. That in itself is not a bad thing. I noticed far too many  from that group  had other agendas that bubbled to the surface. So a protest about a child getting shot evolved its the lives of trans women and other side issues that cluttered the message.


 Also everyone with a BLM t-shirt is not part of the movement. too many people were doing stunts to get face time on social media. Everything from groups of women baring their breasts in San Francisco in the middle of rush hour to  protesting  cafeteria foods at colleges were coming under BLM. It sadly became a fad . Like Joe Madison says a moment does not make a  movement and BLM has had a lot of moments.Add to the fact that George Soros  allegedly  bankrolled some of these "activists" gives me pause.

Yeah and SCLC and the March on Washington coalition had "infiltrators" of different ideologies.

But you seem focused on the "side show".

We don't have the luxury of or the time for waiting for the "perfect" movement. Freedom Fighter Nat Turner has his detractors because he killed children ("Nits make lice," he said). Malcolm, the Panthers, CORE, - you name 'em - ALL had issues and problems.

You have chosen NOT to take issue with my assertions about what BLM has accomplished.
What about what has been accomplished?

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 18, 2016, 12:51:11 PM
Bison 66,


When Ferguson and Baltimore  began, I was following realtime thru activists on the ground via U-stream, Twitter and  other social media platforms. I followed many on Twitter and elsewhere and saw a pattern develop.
BLM has a large percentage of "leaders" from the LGBT community. That in itself is not a bad thing. I noticed far too many  from that group  had other agendas that bubbled to the surface. So a protest about a child getting shot evolved its the lives of trans women and other side issues that cluttered the message.


 Also everyone with a BLM t-shirt is not part of the movement. too many people were doing stunts to get face time on social media. Everything from groups of women baring their breasts in San Francisco in the middle of rush hour to  protesting  cafeteria foods at colleges were coming under BLM. It sadly became a fad . Like Joe Madison says a moment does not make a  movement and BLM has had a lot of moments.Add to the fact that George Soros  allegedly  bankrolled some of these "activists" gives me pause.

Yeah and SCLC and the March on Washington coalition had "infiltrators" of different ideologies.

But you seem focused on the "side show".

We don't have the luxury of or the time for waiting for the "perfect" movement. Freedom Fighter Nat Turner has his detractors because he killed children ("Nits make lice," he said). Malcolm, the Panthers, CORE, - you name 'em - ALL had issues and problems.

You have chosen NOT to take issue with my assertions about what BLM has accomplished.
What about what has been accomplished?

O0

Bison66,

You ask me my opinion then when its given you then insert a "yeah but". I told you why I think at this point BLM is a moment and not a movement.
Their accomplishments  can't change human hearts and or behaviors at this juncture. Having regulations requiring cops to wear camera or dashcams that can be turned off does not stop racist cops from killing black people in my book.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 18, 2016, 01:47:50 PM
Could be wrong, but I think this is the first time you said anything about movement vs. moment, but...

Changing human hearts???  Who said they did that?  The WHOLE of the Civil Rights Movement and its supporters going back to the 1860's has made only a little progress in that regard IMHO.

If you are faulting the BLM for not stopping cops from killing us, then what can i say?!?!?!  That's a totally unrealistic "expectation," if that's what you're saying.  If it isn't what you're saying, then I don't understand the context of your statement about dash and bodycams, etc.

Actually, I asked you two questions.

Here they are with their predicates:

1)  Re: Narrative
Quote
But tell me if you think it is PURELY coincidental that Sanders and Clinton are talking about police misconduct/accountability and mass incarceration. 

Is it, in your opinion, because the NAACP or Urban League raised the issue??  Or Sharpton or Jackson?

2) Re: Accomplishments
Quote
BLM has highlighted LIKE NO ONE ELSE HAS the egregious violations of our rights and law-breaking by police and prosecutorial malfeasance.  In just a few short - very short - years, there has been a change and SOME bad cops are starting to be held accountable.  A few are even being indicted and a few convicted.  But it's clear to everyone that Black folks ain't sitting back no more while racist police violence and terrorism continue unpunished.

If BLM didn't do that, WHO do you think brought that about?

So when you mention "accomplishments," are you acknowledging those I cited?

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 18, 2016, 03:33:02 PM
Bison 66,

Well BLM is having another meeting at the White House today so that can be considered a victory. They may or may not be the force behind some police reform initiatives across the nation. But was that thru the organization itself or grass roots activists in that particular city who were there from the beginning?
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: oldsport on February 18, 2016, 03:47:02 PM
Bison 66,

Well BLM is having another meeting at the White House today so that can be considered a victory. They may or may not be the force behind some police reform initiatives across the nation. But was that thru the organization itself or grass roots activists in that particular city who were there from the beginning?

These nothings enjoy there meeting because they time coming to the WH will coming to swift end after the 2016 election.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Strike79 on February 18, 2016, 03:56:05 PM
Bison 66,

Well BLM is having another meeting at the White House today so that can be considered a victory. They may or may not be the force behind some police reform initiatives across the nation. But was that thru the organization itself or grass roots activists in that particular city who were there from the beginning?

These nothings enjoy there meeting because they time coming to the WH will coming to swift end after the 2016 election.
.........I am enjoying the colloquy between the Bison, but if you feel compelled to insert yourself in the exchange with your foolishness, then you ought to at LEAST use standard english.

In BOTH instances where I have bold-printed^^^^, the proper word to use is "their".  Don't know if you're dyslexic or something, but sometimes your writing can be totally nonsensical.

I guess it reflects your personality.  ::)
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: CU1994 on February 18, 2016, 04:20:53 PM
Bison 66,

Well BLM is having another meeting at the White House today so that can be considered a victory. They may or may not be the force behind some police reform initiatives across the nation. But was that thru the organization itself or grass roots activists in that particular city who were there from the beginning?

These nothings enjoy there meeting because they time coming to the WH will coming to swift end after the 2016 election.
.........I am enjoying the colloquy between the Bison, but if you feel compelled to insert yourself in the exchange with your foolishness, then you ought to at LEAST use standard english.

In BOTH instances where I have bold-printed^^^^, the proper word to use is "their".  Don't know if you're dyslexic or something, but sometimes your writing can be totally nonsensical.

I guess it reflects your personality.  ::)

Very true Bro Strike. These brothers are chopping it up nice and then you know who comes in the room.  It's like sniffing a bouquet of roses and then someone farts.  :shrug:
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 18, 2016, 04:32:52 PM
Bison 66,

Well BLM is having another meeting at the White House today so that can be considered a victory. They may or may not be the force behind some police reform initiatives across the nation. But was that thru the organization itself or grass roots activists in that particular city who were there from the beginning?

It's like we agreed:  they are amorphous.
Personally - unless a group distances themselves from BLM - I consider just about all of it as part of Black Lives Matter.  They're not an incorporated group (to my knowledge) with chapters and a national structure.  They are grass roots.

If you show me a local group that does NOT consider itself part of BLM AND has wrested some concessions from local officials, I will certainly acknowledge that.  But - not being on the ground myself - it appears to me those concessions are the result of BLM - directly and indirectly.

Are you personally aware of a local activist group that says they are not part of BLM?   :shrug:
I'm going to check with My Main Man who's involved in the Prince Georges County Coalition that pre-existed the BLM.

Thanks for the info on the White House meeting.  Looks like they continue making their moves!!

Here's how I look at it.  One group cannot and will not do everything.  For example:  The Deacons for Defense (begun in Louisiana, I believe) performed an ESSENTIAL function protecting Civil Rights workers in the South.  It would be unfair and obtuse to criticize them because, say, they didn't file voter rights lawsuits.  That wasn't their "lane." They, like the BLM activists, put their bodies on the line.

It's easy for us to take pot shots from our Stratoloungers!!!   LOL!!!!

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 18, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
Bison 66,

Well BLM is having another meeting at the White House today so that can be considered a victory. They may or may not be the force behind some police reform initiatives across the nation. But was that thru the organization itself or grass roots activists in that particular city who were there from the beginning?

It's like we agreed:  they are amorphous.
Personally - unless a group distances themselves from BLM - I consider just about all of it as part of Black Lives Matter.  They're not an incorporated group (to my knowledge) with chapters and a national structure.  They are grass roots.

If you show me a local group that does NOT consider itself part of BLM AND has wrested some concessions from local officials, I will certainly acknowledge that.  But - not being on the ground myself - it appears to me those concessions are the result of BLM - directly and indirectly.

Are you personally aware of a local activist group that says they are not part of BLM?   :shrug:
I'm going to check with My Main Man who's involved in the Prince Georges County Coalition that pre-existed the BLM.

Thanks for the info on the White House meeting.  Looks like they continue making their moves!!

Here's how I look at it.  One group cannot and will not do everything.  For example:  The Deacons for Defense (begun in Louisiana, I believe) performed an ESSENTIAL function protecting Civil Rights workers in the South.  It would be unfair and obtuse to criticize them because, say, they didn't file voter rights lawsuits.  That wasn't their "lane." They, like the BLM activists, put their bodies on the line.

It's easy for us to take pot shots from our Stratoloungers!!!   LOL!!!!

O0

You know that BLM was founded by three Black queer women. The history is below but it was set up as a platform in response to Michael Brown killings and a response for that community's exclusion  from the narrative in violence and brutality.It did not start out as a reform movement. That begin said all movements mature and transform.

http://blacklivesmatter.com/herstory/ (http://blacklivesmatter.com/herstory/)

A Chicago BLM activist refused the WH visit.
 http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34889-black-struggle-is-not-a-sound-bite-why-i-refused-to-meet-with-president-obama (http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34889-black-struggle-is-not-a-sound-bite-why-i-refused-to-meet-with-president-obama)
I know someone who knows one of the creators very well. So much so I could have called her on the phone to talk about the movement if I chose to. She's has nothing but positive things to say about the founder. But this has grown beyond this single agenda organization into something that is not a force.  

This is what  BLM is not getting. You can't be a revolutionary and when bail and legal fees are needed you have to turn to celebrities created by the system.Celebrity endorsements are fine but celebrity reliance? How does that work? You think hoping JayZ, Beyonce, Oprah, (insert rich Negro celeb here) to be there. The system will kill off the celebrity's revenue stream first.

I've seen it on social media when whites were arrested they were bailed out and heading home in minutes. BLM participants of all affiliations were arrested and held overnight or longer because that step wasn't thought out yet. Members taking selfies  but no cash on hand for bail. Movements have that figured out. Moments do not.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Strike79 on February 18, 2016, 06:58:33 PM
 :lol:............absolutely FASCINATING exchange between you two, and the very last paragraph of B4L's last post^^^^^is illuminating.

Having read each of your posts, your humble poster believes at this point that you boys are now being redundant.  You both have articulated yourselves loud and clear on the issue.  And you both make meritorious points.

But, hey, if y'all continue, I guess I'll continue following, and offer commentary from a "neutral" observer's perspective.  Perhaps we ought to give your debate a name. Battle of the Bovine sounds appropriate.  :lol:
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 18, 2016, 08:18:07 PM
B4L,

Sounds to me like we are approaching this from very different perspectives, but I might be wrong.

Let me speak for myself.

I come out of the protest tradition starting during my high school years in NYC in the early 60's.  I never became a Movement person, but I continued with various protests over the decades, including against police brutality in Washington state in the late 60's and in DC with the "Enough is Enough" protest at the US Capitol when Mamadou Diallo's mother spoke and was accompanied by her HU Law School attorney who lived in Drew Hall with me. (Only his nickname comes to mind right now:  "Barbarossa.")  In between I was part of a community group that sat in overnight at Brookdale Hospital in Brooklyn because they weren't serving the community in which they were located.  They made changes.

I led protests against Cornell University investments in Gulf Oil (due to their investments in Portuguese-ruled Angola) and picketed Gulf stations to increase awareness and urging people to cut up their Gulf credit crads. A year later Cornell sold their stock. I picketed the South African Embassy and was one of those hundreds of Black men who blocked the 14th Street Bridge during morning rush hour to highlight and protest all the guns being brought into the District from Virginia.  I was the only one in a suit and tie and had no money on me for my fine. (I was DEFINITELY  a moment!!!!  LOL!!  And was 'delayed' getting to work at HU that day.)  Bernie McCain and Rev Willie Wilson were the titular leaders and held an overnight locked-door meeting the night before.  I nicknamed us "The Brothers of the Bridge."

SNCC workers and CORE Freedom Riders often did not have bail money.  The NAACP sometimes stepped to the plate for bail as did Harry Belafonte and other "celebrities' of that day to offset expenses including I am sure, bail.

I have been part of "actions" (and in one particular 'militant' organization) where the stated policy was "Jail, No Bail!!"  The school children in B'ham FILLED the jails with no bail.  The foregoing about 'bail' is to say DEFINITIVELY that your comment about no bail is not a 'make or break' one - as you seem to suggest - in regard to whether something is a movement or not.

So, based on all of that,............
IMO BLM is NOT THE movement; it is a part of The Movement.  
If you want to debate your recently-raised issue of 'moment vs. movement,' I'm the wrong person to have it with.  That remains to be seen.

For example, when those 4 A&T Brothers started the modern sit-ins in Greensboro it was a moment that BECAME a movement that flowed into the broader Movement.  Time will tell with BLM.

"Revolutionary" is a much over-used and imprecise term, but what Revolutionaries are you alluding to who DID make arrangements for bail and to whom you contrast with BLM to the later's detriment???

And who said that BLM is "Revolutionary"?
They don't seem to be identifying as such - unless I missed it. At the link you shared, they say:  "It (BLM) is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.  When we say Black Lives Matter, we are talking about the ways in which Black people are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity."  Pulley, who declined the WH invitation, uses the word "revolutionary," but not quite in that context.

Naw, Brother, I have the strong feeling that there is something else behind your obvious disdain for and misgivings about the BLM.  Could be wrong,.....

Maybe our perspectives are just completely different on what a grass roots organization does early in its development.

When you got the cell number for BLM's co-founder and "could have called", did you call her to offer assistance, suggestions or moral support?

But now after all that YOU have said were BLM's accomplishments, you say BLM is "not a force" on the same day they are invited to meet the President in the White House.

Strike, I do hope we broke "new ground" for your consumption and further comment.  :)

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on February 19, 2016, 12:09:45 AM
I agree B66, and that is why we have to be the force to affect change.  We all know that forcing change isn't a one week protest.


Not sure, Aggie...

Are you implying that BLM has been a one week protest?

O0

BLM is more than a one week protest group for sure.  I don't criticize BLM because they are disperse with different local leaders with specific issues and demands so you have to be tuned in to certain cities to know what is happening beyond what you hear on the news.

I was listening to a video of the great historian, John Henri Clarke, he mentioned that not only does a Movement need protesters and artists but a political and social movement also needs builders and managers, too.  People who know how to plan, organize and build infrastructure, non-sexy things like building sewage systems, roads, water treatment plants, power plants, and buildings.  A movement needs people who can manage and run offices that provide services to its people; and need people who knows manage corporate finance, banking, entrepreneurship, and major businesses.

Serious people can make serious demands of politicians, expect positive results and make good on delivering the consequences to politicians when they fail to keep their promises or fail to make a hard effort to keep them.

AggieJa--,

Meant to respond to you.  Got all in involved with my Bison Brother.

I agree that it is way too early to be dismissive of BLM at this early stage.  They may turn out to be a flash in the pan, but while they are on the front lines advocating for our People and our Dignity, they DESERVE our support - moral support at a minimum.

When you step out there you get attacked from all sides - even from your own.  The folks on the fRight and Fox News are demonizing them and lying about them and the very last thing we need to do is - without good reason - to attack them UNLESS we are on the front lines and see something shady or unwise going on.

Thanks for lifting up Dr. John Henrik Clarke - one of greatest scholars and teachers.

Is this the video you were speaking of?
https://archive.org/details/JohnHenrikClarke-AGreatAndMightyWalk

O0

Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on February 19, 2016, 10:07:42 AM
B4L,

Sounds to me like we are approaching this from very different perspectives, but I might be wrong.

Let me speak for myself.

I come out of the protest tradition starting during my high school years in NYC in the early 60's.  I never became a Movement person, but I continued with various protests over the decades, including against police brutality in Washington state in the late 60's and in DC with the "Enough is Enough" protest at the US Capitol when Mamadou Diallo's mother spoke and was accompanied by her HU Law School attorney who lived in Drew Hall with me. (Only his nickname comes to mind right now:  "Barbarossa.")  In between I was part of a community group that sat in overnight at Brookdale Hospital in Brooklyn because they weren't serving the community in which they were located.  They made changes.

I led protests against Cornell University investments in Gulf Oil (due to their investments in Portuguese-ruled Angola) and picketed Gulf stations to increase awareness and urging people to cut up their Gulf credit crads. A year later Cornell sold their stock. I picketed the South African Embassy and was one of those hundreds of Black men who blocked the 14th Street Bridge during morning rush hour to highlight and protest all the guns being brought into the District from Virginia.  I was the only one in a suit and tie and had no money on me for my fine. (I was DEFINITELY  a moment!!!!  LOL!!  And was 'delayed' getting to work at HU that day.)  Bernie McCain and Rev Willie Wilson were the titular leaders and held an overnight locked-door meeting the night before.  I nicknamed us "The Brothers of the Bridge."

SNCC workers and CORE Freedom Riders often did not have bail money.  The NAACP sometimes stepped to the plate for bail as did Harry Belafonte and other "celebrities' of that day to offset expenses including I am sure, bail.

I have been part of "actions" (and in one particular 'militant' organization) where the stated policy was "Jail, No Bail!!"  The school children in B'ham FILLED the jails with no bail.  The foregoing about 'bail' is to say DEFINITIVELY that your comment about no bail is not a 'make or break' one - as you seem to suggest - in regard to whether something is a movement or not.

So, based on all of that,............
IMO BLM is NOT THE movement; it is a part of The Movement.  
If you want to debate your recently-raised issue of 'moment vs. movement,' I'm the wrong person to have it with.  That remains to be seen.

For example, when those 4 A&T Brothers started the modern sit-ins in Greensboro it was a moment that BECAME a movement that flowed into the broader Movement.  Time will tell with BLM.

"Revolutionary" is a much over-used and imprecise term, but what Revolutionaries are you alluding to who DID make arrangements for bail and to whom you contrast with BLM to the later's detriment???

And who said that BLM is "Revolutionary"?
They don't seem to be identifying as such - unless I missed it. At the link you shared, they say:  "It (BLM) is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.  When we say Black Lives Matter, we are talking about the ways in which Black people are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity."  Pulley, who declined the WH invitation, uses the word "revolutionary," but not quite in that context.

Naw, Brother, I have the strong feeling that there is something else behind your obvious disdain for and misgivings about the BLM.  Could be wrong,.....

Maybe our perspectives are just completely different on what a grass roots organization does early in its development.

When you got the cell number for BLM's co-founder and "could have called", did you call her to offer assistance, suggestions or moral support?

But now after all that YOU have said were BLM's accomplishments, you say BLM is "not a force" on the same day they are invited to meet the President in the White House.

Strike, I do hope we broke "new ground" for your consumption and further comment.  :)

O0

Bison66,



BLM doesn't feel organic to me at this time.  But some folks started screaming on social media and was "granted" de facto leadership status without being vetted.Mistake number one. Mistake number two if this was a organizational movement there should be guidelines on how to interact with the media and  how to deal with situations when situations go south.It feels and appears to be an event to take selfies and run back to class and say they've done something. While at the same time the other side is criminalizing BLM via media surrogates like Hannity and the rest. I hope this does not happen but if one of the leaders are shot and killed , then what?

You ask do I have a bias against BLM. I do not. What I am angry about is that every generation or so we make the same mistakes  in trying to move forward. I blame the generation before me who bought into integration and either spoke little or refused outright to talk about how they overcame segregation or Jim Crow. I blame this generation for not knowing it history. South Carolina State,Jackson State and Kent State were not that long ago. Don't think it can't happen again. Many police departments pull  from the military for SWAC and other tactical units. I worked with infantry, special forces and other fighting units. I've seen the mindset. They dehumanize the "enemy". We can't even se how the  chess board ifs being set up because we are being distracted by bullcrap like Beyonce at the Super Bowl or Kanye West rants.BLM will be the Willie Horton of  2016.
Whoever is running on the GOP side will use BLM for a "law and order"  platform just like Nixon did in 68. Whats worse they either are not listening or no one is pulling them aside to tell them its a set up.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: y04185 on February 19, 2016, 02:02:47 PM
B4L,

Sounds to me like we are approaching this from very different perspectives, but I might be wrong.

Let me speak for myself.

I come out of the protest tradition starting during my high school years in NYC in the early 60's.  I never became a Movement person, but I continued with various protests over the decades, including against police brutality in Washington state in the late 60's and in DC with the "Enough is Enough" protest at the US Capitol when Mamadou Diallo's mother spoke and was accompanied by her HU Law School attorney who lived in Drew Hall with me. (Only his nickname comes to mind right now:  "Barbarossa.")  In between I was part of a community group that sat in overnight at Brookdale Hospital in Brooklyn because they weren't serving the community in which they were located.  They made changes.

I led protests against Cornell University investments in Gulf Oil (due to their investments in Portuguese-ruled Angola) and picketed Gulf stations to increase awareness and urging people to cut up their Gulf credit crads. A year later Cornell sold their stock. I picketed the South African Embassy and was one of those hundreds of Black men who blocked the 14th Street Bridge during morning rush hour to highlight and protest all the guns being brought into the District from Virginia.  I was the only one in a suit and tie and had no money on me for my fine. (I was DEFINITELY  a moment!!!!  LOL!!  And was 'delayed' getting to work at HU that day.)  Bernie McCain and Rev Willie Wilson were the titular leaders and held an overnight locked-door meeting the night before.  I nicknamed us "The Brothers of the Bridge."

SNCC workers and CORE Freedom Riders often did not have bail money.  The NAACP sometimes stepped to the plate for bail as did Harry Belafonte and other "celebrities' of that day to offset expenses including I am sure, bail.

I have been part of "actions" (and in one particular 'militant' organization) where the stated policy was "Jail, No Bail!!"  The school children in B'ham FILLED the jails with no bail.  The foregoing about 'bail' is to say DEFINITIVELY that your comment about no bail is not a 'make or break' one - as you seem to suggest - in regard to whether something is a movement or not.

So, based on all of that,............
IMO BLM is NOT THE movement; it is a part of The Movement.  
If you want to debate your recently-raised issue of 'moment vs. movement,' I'm the wrong person to have it with.  That remains to be seen.

For example, when those 4 A&T Brothers started the modern sit-ins in Greensboro it was a moment that BECAME a movement that flowed into the broader Movement.  Time will tell with BLM.

"Revolutionary" is a much over-used and imprecise term, but what Revolutionaries are you alluding to who DID make arrangements for bail and to whom you contrast with BLM to the later's detriment???

And who said that BLM is "Revolutionary"?
They don't seem to be identifying as such - unless I missed it. At the link you shared, they say:  "It (BLM) is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.  When we say Black Lives Matter, we are talking about the ways in which Black people are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity."  Pulley, who declined the WH invitation, uses the word "revolutionary," but not quite in that context.

Naw, Brother, I have the strong feeling that there is something else behind your obvious disdain for and misgivings about the BLM.  Could be wrong,.....

Maybe our perspectives are just completely different on what a grass roots organization does early in its development.

When you got the cell number for BLM's co-founder and "could have called", did you call her to offer assistance, suggestions or moral support?

But now after all that YOU have said were BLM's accomplishments, you say BLM is "not a force" on the same day they are invited to meet the President in the White House.

Strike, I do hope we broke "new ground" for your consumption and further comment.  :)

O0

Bison66,



BLM doesn't feel organic to me at this time.  But some folks started screaming on social media and was "granted" de facto leadership status without being vetted.Mistake number one. Mistake number two if this was a organizational movement there should be guidelines on how to interact with the media and  how to deal with situations when situations go south.It feels and appears to be an event to take selfies and run back to class and say they've done something. While at the same time the other side is criminalizing BLM via media surrogates like Hannity and the rest. I hope this does not happen but if one of the leaders are shot and killed , then what?

You ask do I have a bias against BLM. I do not. What I am angry about is that every generation or so we make the same mistakes  in trying to move forward. I blame the generation before me who bought into integration and either spoke little or refused outright to talk about how they overcame segregation or Jim Crow. I blame this generation for not knowing it history. South Carolina State,Jackson State and Kent State were not that long ago. Don't think it can't happen again. Many police departments pull  from the military for SWAC and other tactical units. I worked with infantry, special forces and other fighting units. I've seen the mindset. They dehumanize the "enemy". We can't even se how the  chess board ifs being set up because we are being distracted by bullcrap like Beyonce at the Super Bowl or Kanye West rants.BLM will be the Willie Horton of  2016.
Whoever is running on the GOP side will use BLM for a "law and order"  platform just like Nixon did in 68. Whats worse they either are not listening or no one is pulling them aside to tell them its a set up.

Do  you  think  they  would  listen  if  anyone  tried  to  tell  them ? 

The  GOP  will  not  use  Black  Lives  Matter  in  the  manner  you  described .   They  will  use  the  photo  ops  against  the  democrat  nominee.  We  know  the  democrat  will  do  nothing  for  Black  Lives  Matter .   I  doubt  there  will  be  a  Black  anything  plank  on  the  democrat  National  Convention  platform . 
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: EB on March 02, 2016, 10:32:32 PM
www.huffingtonpost.com/russ-belville/the-problem-with-hillary-clinton_b_9349590.html

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rBsNKBe5j4
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: DAW912 on March 04, 2016, 12:43:34 AM
After the BS HRC pulled in the '08 election, there isn't a scenario where I could see myself voting for her... ever.  Her campaign played dog whistle politics putting out that photo of Obama in Muslim garbs and suggesting that he was a secret Muslim and wasn't born in the US.  I won't vote for Trump, either.  Anybody but those two.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: DAW912 on March 04, 2016, 01:02:10 AM
The  Black community needs its version of the Tea Party to move the political narrative. Black Lives Matter is not that vehicle. First its been hijacked and second its more reactive than proactive.  We need more than clinced fist photo ops.

But we also need the 2016 version of Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young's as well. A multi  pronged plan of attack.
Black America needs to revolt from the Democratic Party.  They have failed us on so many levels.  We should become Independents.  In doing so, we will gain political leverage and force both the Democratic and Republican Party( and the newly formed party after the GOP splits up) to add to the their respective platforms meaningful polices to address the issues we face that will empower us so that we can get off the government's tit.  
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Wildman78 on March 04, 2016, 07:40:26 AM
Black America needs to revolt from the Democratic Party.  They have failed us on so many levels.  We should become Independents.  In doing so, we will gain political leverage and force both the Democratic and Republican Party( and the newly formed party after the GOP splits up) to add to the their respective platforms meaningful polices to address the issues we face that will empower us so that we can get off the government's tit.  

I've heard people express these sentiments  too many times to count.  What is being said sounds good when you say it real fast, but it is short on specifics

Maybe you can answer a couple of questions for me. You say Democrats have failed us on so many levels. What should the Democrats have done for Black people or what specifically have Democrats failed to do for Black people.

Specifically what "meaningful policies"  would you add to a Democratic or Republican platform and what issues would those policies address.

While you all are thinking, please tell me what Democratic policy caused all the neighborhood convenience stores in the Black community to be owned or run by Arabs.

 
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on March 04, 2016, 08:11:15 AM
Wildman 78 returns from hiatus and is going after everyone. :popcorn:

Until there is real campaign reform ,ir removing dark money this is the system you'll have. If Trump wins, I predict one of the Waltons from Walmart and other billionaires will run for higher office soon afterward.This will open the floodgates IMHO.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Ken on March 04, 2016, 08:56:24 AM
Agree with Wildman--does the DEMO cause black folks to take money out of their community each payday , and drive 10 miles to hand it over to white folks, does the DEMO party cause black folks to spend there $ 1 trillion dollar income on cars, cosmetics and rims, instead of investing for the future.  Does the DEMO party cause black folks not to support their HBCU's , yet give billions of dollars each year to Rev. Cash, for his new Maybach and plane so they can get to the pearly gates???  The question should be what have black folks done for black folks.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: EB on March 04, 2016, 08:39:05 PM
The  Black community needs its version of the Tea Party to move the political narrative. Black Lives Matter is not that vehicle. First its been hijacked and second its more reactive than proactive.  We need more than clinced fist photo ops.

But we also need the 2016 version of Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young's as well. A multi  pronged plan of attack.

Our politics need to become more sophisticated.  Only voting for the democrats and doing, nothing like holding politicians accountable, is keeping us in neutral.  Actually, it is moving us backward and hurting us.

Here is a conversation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APhC47rHyf8) about Mrs. Clinton.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on March 04, 2016, 11:00:47 PM
B4L,

.................."Revolutionary" is a much over-used and imprecise term, but what Revolutionaries are you alluding to who DID make arrangements for bail and to whom you contrast with BLM to the later's detriment???

And who said that BLM is "Revolutionary"?
They don't seem to be identifying as such - unless I missed it. At the link you shared, they say:  "It (BLM) is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.  When we say Black Lives Matter, we are talking about the ways in which Black people are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity."  Pulley, who declined the WH invitation, uses the word "revolutionary," but not quite in that context.

Naw, Brother, I have the strong feeling that there is something else behind your obvious disdain for and misgivings about the BLM.  Could be wrong,.....

Maybe our perspectives are just completely different on what a grass roots organization does early in its development.

When you got the cell number for BLM's co-founder and "could have called", did you call her to offer assistance, suggestions or moral support?

But now after all that YOU have said were BLM's accomplishments, you say BLM is "not a force" on the same day they are invited to meet the President in the White House.....

O0

Bison66,

BLM doesn't feel organic to me at this time.  But some folks started screaming on social media and was "granted" de facto leadership status without being vetted.Mistake number one. Mistake number two if this was a organizational movement there should be guidelines on how to interact with the media and  how to deal with situations when situations go south.It feels and appears to be an event to take selfies and run back to class and say they've done something. While at the same time the other side is criminalizing BLM via media surrogates like Hannity and the rest. I hope this does not happen but if one of the leaders are shot and killed , then what?

You ask do I have a bias against BLM. I do not. What I am angry about is that every generation or so we make the same mistakes  in trying to move forward. I blame the generation before me who bought into integration and either spoke little or refused outright to talk about how they overcame segregation or Jim Crow. I blame this generation for not knowing it history. South Carolina State,Jackson State and Kent State were not that long ago. Don't think it can't happen again. Many police departments pull  from the military for SWAC and other tactical units. I worked with infantry, special forces and other fighting units. I've seen the mindset. They dehumanize the "enemy". We can't even se how the  chess board ifs being set up because we are being distracted by bullcrap like Beyonce at the Super Bowl or Kanye West rants.BLM will be the Willie Horton of  2016.
Whoever is running on the GOP side will use BLM for a "law and order"  platform just like Nixon did in 68. Whats worse they either are not listening or no one is pulling them aside to tell them its a set up.

B4L,

It's taken me a while because things have been hectic and you deserved a full response. I appreciate this dialogue.

Bro, you are IMO super-imposing a standard of judgment (set of criteria) on a mostly grass roots movement that is unrealistic and counter-productive.

First however, I think it only fair to review.

You began by saying that BLM had not changed the narrative.  When I responded with evidence that they had, then you said they haven't affected policy.
http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php?topic=108518.15

Then, among other things you said they were "directionless."
I contended that they had a clear direction and that it was yielding results re: awareness and accountability for bad cops.
http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php?topic=108518.45

You then shifted to highlight (or ?criticize?) BLM's founding by Black "queer women."
So?
And you claim (accurately, I am sure) that they've been infiltrated.
http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php?topic=108518.45

I pointed out that ALL of our organizations have been infiltrated.
So, I asked you to speak to their accomplishments which I had pointed out.

Your response was that they haven't "changed human hearts" and you say that having cameras "in (your) book" does not stop cops from killing Black people.
But, Bro, those are IMPOSSIBLE GOALS.  The damn Justice Dept, even if they wanted to, can't do that (certainly not in a couple of years) and, as I pointed out, decades of protest, resistance, lawsuits, prayer, etc. have changed very few hearts IMO.
So, how would expect a grass roots movement to have accomplished those things - in just a few short years.

You said I dismissed your opinion, but your assertions followed NOT a general request for your opinion, but this:
Quote
BLM has highlighted LIKE NO ONE ELSE HAS the egregious violations of our rights and law-breaking by police and prosecutorial malfeasance.  In just a few short - very short - years, there has been a change and SOME bad cops are starting to be held accountable.  A few are even being indicted and a few convicted.  But it's clear to everyone that Black folks ain't sitting back no more while racist police violence and terrorism continue unpunished.

If BLM didn't do that, WHO do you think brought that about?

You had not responded....
So I re-posed my questions and you - rather than answer them - mention that BLM is meeting at the White House, but question whether all of them are BLM or instead local activists.  And, despite being invited, they "are not a force."

Since you made that distinction, I asked you if you were aware of ANY local activists who had distanced themselves from BLM.

You respond with a history of the "queer women" who started it, but do not cite any activist who says they are not BLM.
And you imply that "revolutionaries" always have bail money. 

First, I respond with "Who said BLM is revolutionary?"
No response
Second, that revolutionaries don't (always) deal with bail and ask you to cite those who did.
No response.
And I gave examples of NO BAIL as a tactic.
No response.

Then you say that BLM "doesn't seem organic" to you.
I don't know what that means, but..
Then your next set of criteria / criticism is that they don't have a coherent media strategy and they are all over the place with issues.

Bro, this ain't some rich corporation or long established bourgeois group like the Urban League with a full time staff, etc.   You keep setting up IMO unrealistic or inapplicable criteria which MOST Movement groups would fail to meet.  But you insist on beating BLM over the head for not meeting them.  SCLC, CORE, NAACP, Urban league - none of them - would have met ALL your criteria by which you criticize BLM.  And they became well-organized national groups with offices, budgets, grants, etc.
BLM is an amorphous, locally-directed grass roots group, NOT a well-oiled and long established national organization.

You continue by expressing concern about what Hannity is gonna say and claiming that BLM does not understand it is all a "set up."
http://onnidan1.com/forum/index.php?topic=108518.60

Let me respond this way:
Black folks' efforts at liberation have been scapegoated from the rebellion on the Amistad through Nat Turner, Vesey and Tubman and Douglass on up to Garvey, King, Kwame Ture and every group in between and since then.  That's the nature of the oppressor and our struggle.
If we don't protest, it's a "set up" IMO.
If we protest, it's a set up?  Is that what you're saying?  Or,.... we have to protest in only VERY socially acceptable ways (and with NO "selfies") and only after having our media strategy all laid out with professional-sounding spokespeople trained to "stay on message?"

Finally you say that BLM doesn't know their history.  But you also said you had a BLM founder's number, but when I asked if you called to offer info or assistance or insight, you said nothing.  If it's all a 'set up" why not call her and warn her?  Or, give her, as I said, some moral support at the least.  If you still have the number, send it to me so I can call her to CONGRATULATE HER!
Are you feeling me on this?

On one of the rare occasions that y04 is correct, he suggests she might not have listened anyway, if you had called. He's probably right. 
How would that co-founder of BLM know you weren't part of a "new" COINTELPRO calling to misdirect or disrupt BLM?  The only way would be for you to have told her (with references) of YOUR OWN involvements in the past and what you learned from that activism.  Still she might not have listened, but you would have given it your best effort.  Right?  But if you were not an activist and/or had no references - WHY should she listen to you?

Anyway,...........
Did the NC A&T brothers stop to consult with the generation before them before they took action. No, they didn't.

Did the Montgomery Movement do so before they launched the boycott? 

Did the Deacons for Defense say, "Hold up, let's do some research before we load up our shotguns?" 

Students at Howard in 1968 didn't seek out activists from the 50's and HU students in the 1989 take-over did not reach out to those who took over the A Bldg in 1968.

No, Bro, it don't work like that in The Struggle - not at the grass roots level.  There are no Ven Diagrams and firm hierarchical structures. People do the best they can with the information and resources they have and, as a result of their OWN struggle - not from sitting back criticizing - they learn how to do it better....or they don't.

Finally, I'll address your statement:
Quote
I blame the generation before me who bought into integration and either spoke little or refused outright to talk about how they overcame segregation or Jim Crow. I blame this generation for not knowing it history. South Carolina State,Jackson State and Kent State were not that long ago.
Nice!  I truly do not mean to be harsh, but you blame the generation before yours and after yours, but neatly your generation escapes scrutiny.  C'mon, Bro! 

I won't try to defend either of those two generations.  They certainly are far from perfect.  But I WILL point out that there are HUNDREDS of books written by and DOZENS of documentaries made about those who brought down the Colored signs of Jim Crow and ushered in the era of Black Power and Black Beauty.  There are still a few secrets, but most of the real story has been told.

Most folks - we all know it's true - are not gonna be involved in The Struggle.  It is ALWAYS the few who are willing to make the sacrifices, risk being put out of school or being maimed.  I don't know if you were among that few in your generation, but I think if you had been you would be more understanding of what is transpiring now with BLM.

BLM and others are putting life and limb at risk in the streets these days confronting SWAT teams with the mindset you mentioned.  If we aren't gonna join 'em in the streets, the least we can do is respect their efforts and courage AND lend moral and/or material support when and where we can.

Sorry to be so long.

O0
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: EB on March 05, 2016, 12:37:50 PM
This is on Twitter (https://twitter.com/hashtag/WhichHillary?src=hash).

www.wired.com/2016/02/whichhillary/

#WhichHillary
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: soflorattler on March 05, 2016, 04:23:43 PM
https://youtu.be/ryweuBVJMEA
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Blackcaesar2k5 on March 06, 2016, 04:47:43 AM
Kasich and his polices have ruined the Buckeye state. America would be best served by electing Democrat in the fall!!!
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: DAW912 on March 06, 2016, 08:31:49 AM
Black America needs to revolt from the Democratic Party.  They have failed us on so many levels.  We should become Independents.  In doing so, we will gain political leverage and force both the Democratic and Republican Party( and the newly formed party after the GOP splits up) to add to the their respective platforms meaningful polices to address the issues we face that will empower us so that we can get off the government's tit.  

I've heard people express these sentiments  too many times to count.  What is being said sounds good when you say it real fast, but it is short on specifics

Maybe you can answer a couple of questions for me. You say Democrats have failed us on so many levels. What should the Democrats have done for Black people or what specifically have Democrats failed to do for Black people.

Specifically what "meaningful policies"  would you add to a Democratic or Republican platform and what issues would those policies address.

While you all are thinking, please tell me what Democratic policy caused all the neighborhood convenience stores in the Black community to be owned or run by Arabs.

 
Just look at the State of Black America?  A large and disproportionate number of blacks are poor, unemployed, in prison, strung out on drugs, and the public schools systems have failed.   Keep in mind, mostly under Democratic rule in our cities.  

Let's look at a few policies.

Entitlements -  Many blacks receive it.  And the system is set up in away that if a person who's on government assistance gets a job, their benefits are cut. Keep in mind we're talking about low wage, minimum wage jobs.  So,  it's more profitable not to work.  Secondly, more children equal more benefits.  So now you have a woman, who lives in public housing with all these children, in most cases with multiple baby daddies who can't legally live with their children.  Not only does this policy keep blacks dependent on the government, it also attacks the structure of family.  Some may agree or disagree.

Entrepreneurship/Jobs:  Why is it that Arabs or Asians can come to this country, open up businesses in our communities when we don't have the same opportunities?  We can't go into a bank and just apply for loan.  I live in a black and Jewish middle class neighborhood and every corner store in our area is owned by a foreigner.   And it's the same in "the hood."  In Savannah,  up until this last election, Democrats controlled the city government.  Savannah is roughly 60-35-3(blacks, whites, other), give or take.  Well, we protested/revolted in November and now we have a republican mayor and the Democratic council took a huge hit.  Our leadership took for us granted and was shown the door.  

Jobs:  Or should I say, unemployment.  Close to half of Black Americans are unemployed.  If that's not on the political party we support in astronomical numbers (90%), then all of the negative stereotypes attributed to blacks are true.  But it's not true.  The Democratic Party has made us out to be victims.

Civil Rights:  On the surface it seems that Democrats are great with this issue.  But the motives of their support of Civil Rights are less than noble.  This issue is intertwined with entitlements/jobs and the right to vote.  Why? Because they knew that if they were the party to make civil rights a reality, we would be loyal.  So we vote for them in exchange for entitlements and the right to vote, but no jobs.   This, in itself, is what racism is all about.
Racism isn't about Joe The Plumber calling you or I the n-word.  Joe is bigoted and prejudice, but not a racist.  To be a racist, one has to have the power to use one's bigotry and prejudices to SUPPRESS a group of people from obtaining resources, based on race.  All racists are bigots and prejudice, though.  

In short, the Dems have been taking the black vote for granted.  They throw us a bone or two every now and then, but if you look at the statistics, you will find that blacks are no better off economically today than we were pre civil rights and segregation.  At least back then, we actually spent money with each other, because we weren't allowed in many white owned businesses. We are losing big time.  If it's the the Democratic Party's fault, then who's to blame?
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: DAW912 on March 06, 2016, 08:40:56 AM
B4L,

Sounds to me like we are approaching this from very different perspectives, but I might be wrong.

Let me speak for myself.

I come out of the protest tradition starting during my high school years in NYC in the early 60's.  I never became a Movement person, but I continued with various protests over the decades, including against police brutality in Washington state in the late 60's and in DC with the "Enough is Enough" protest at the US Capitol when Mamadou Diallo's mother spoke and was accompanied by her HU Law School attorney who lived in Drew Hall with me. (Only his nickname comes to mind right now:  "Barbarossa.")  In between I was part of a community group that sat in overnight at Brookdale Hospital in Brooklyn because they weren't serving the community in which they were located.  They made changes.

I led protests against Cornell University investments in Gulf Oil (due to their investments in Portuguese-ruled Angola) and picketed Gulf stations to increase awareness and urging people to cut up their Gulf credit crads. A year later Cornell sold their stock. I picketed the South African Embassy and was one of those hundreds of Black men who blocked the 14th Street Bridge during morning rush hour to highlight and protest all the guns being brought into the District from Virginia.  I was the only one in a suit and tie and had no money on me for my fine. (I was DEFINITELY  a moment!!!!  LOL!!  And was 'delayed' getting to work at HU that day.)  Bernie McCain and Rev Willie Wilson were the titular leaders and held an overnight locked-door meeting the night before.  I nicknamed us "The Brothers of the Bridge."

SNCC workers and CORE Freedom Riders often did not have bail money.  The NAACP sometimes stepped to the plate for bail as did Harry Belafonte and other "celebrities' of that day to offset expenses including I am sure, bail.

I have been part of "actions" (and in one particular 'militant' organization) where the stated policy was "Jail, No Bail!!"  The school children in B'ham FILLED the jails with no bail.  The foregoing about 'bail' is to say DEFINITIVELY that your comment about no bail is not a 'make or break' one - as you seem to suggest - in regard to whether something is a movement or not.

So, based on all of that,............
IMO BLM is NOT THE movement; it is a part of The Movement. 
If you want to debate your recently-raised issue of 'moment vs. movement,' I'm the wrong person to have it with.  That remains to be seen.

For example, when those 4 A&T Brothers started the modern sit-ins in Greensboro it was a moment that BECAME a movement that flowed into the broader Movement.  Time will tell with BLM.

"Revolutionary" is a much over-used and imprecise term, but what Revolutionaries are you alluding to who DID make arrangements for bail and to whom you contrast with BLM to the later's detriment???

And who said that BLM is "Revolutionary"?
They don't seem to be identifying as such - unless I missed it. At the link you shared, they say:  "It (BLM) is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.  When we say Black Lives Matter, we are talking about the ways in which Black people are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity."  Pulley, who declined the WH invitation, uses the word "revolutionary," but not quite in that context.

Naw, Brother, I have the strong feeling that there is something else behind your obvious disdain for and misgivings about the BLM.  Could be wrong,.....

Maybe our perspectives are just completely different on what a grass roots organization does early in its development.

When you got the cell number for BLM's co-founder and "could have called", did you call her to offer assistance, suggestions or moral support?

But now after all that YOU have said were BLM's accomplishments, you say BLM is "not a force" on the same day they are invited to meet the President in the White House.

Strike, I do hope we broke "new ground" for your consumption and further comment.  :)

O0

Bison66,



BLM doesn't feel organic to me at this time.  But some folks started screaming on social media and was "granted" de facto leadership status without being vetted.Mistake number one. Mistake number two if this was a organizational movement there should be guidelines on how to interact with the media and  how to deal with situations when situations go south.It feels and appears to be an event to take selfies and run back to class and say they've done something. While at the same time the other side is criminalizing BLM via media surrogates like Hannity and the rest. I hope this does not happen but if one of the leaders are shot and killed , then what?

You ask do I have a bias against BLM. I do not. What I am angry about is that every generation or so we make the same mistakes  in trying to move forward. I blame the generation before me who bought into integration and either spoke little or refused outright to talk about how they overcame segregation or Jim Crow. I blame this generation for not knowing it history. South Carolina State,Jackson State and Kent State were not that long ago. Don't think it can't happen again. Many police departments pull  from the military for SWAC and other tactical units. I worked with infantry, special forces and other fighting units. I've seen the mindset. They dehumanize the "enemy". We can't even se how the  chess board ifs being set up because we are being distracted by bullcrap like Beyonce at the Super Bowl or Kanye West rants.BLM will be the Willie Horton of  2016.
Whoever is running on the GOP side will use BLM for a "law and order"  platform just like Nixon did in 68. Whats worse they either are not listening or no one is pulling them aside to tell them its a set up.
Do you think BLM would have more credibility if they addressed the issue of black on black murders with the same vigor as they do when cops murder our children?  How can we expect other races to respect black lives when we have such a disregard for black lives? 
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Ken on March 06, 2016, 02:20:59 PM
Sir for years= there have been many organizations who fight black on black crime, BLM is for justice for unarmed blacks who are shot by policeman.


Iam a physician we have organiaztions, that fight prostate cancer , colon cancer, heart disease-- no one is saying why are you fighting prostate cancer when you should be fighting heart disease----And again you guys are being fooled by the white information network-- homicides is a VERY SMALL PART OF CRIME-
most crime are robbery, rape and assaults, and white commit most of those crimes== did you know that whites have a problem with killing whites, just as blacks kill blacks-- caused people kill people that live in proximity to them-- Did you  know that 88% of the killer of police are whites???--Any whites forming organizations to stop that.?  My point is like most people, blacks can walk and chew gum at that same time.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Wildman78 on March 06, 2016, 07:30:23 PM
DAW912, I asked you these questions:

What should the Democrats have done for Black people or what specifically have Democrats failed to do for Black people.

Specifically what "meaningful policies"  would you add to a Democratic or Republican platform and what issues would those policies address.

You sort of indirectly answered the first question, and you provided no answer whatsoever to the second question.

You listed many problems and concerns of the Black community, and make the leap in logic that it's  the fault of Democratic Party that these problems and concerns continue to exist. In my opinion, your argument is an example of the logical fallacy post hoc ergo propter hoc. In my opinion, you have shown very little, if any causal connection between Black people voting for Democrat and the problems facing the Black community or phrased differently, I don't think you've shown any causal connection between democratic policies and the plight the Black community.  

Using your logic, I guess one could list the all the problems of the Black community, and then argue that America has failed Black people;  Black leadership has failed Black people; or the Black church has failed Black people.


Quote
Just look at the State of Black America?  A large and disproportionate number of blacks are poor, unemployed, in prison, strung out on drugs, and the public schools systems have failed.   Keep in mind, mostly under Democratic rule in our cities.  

There is no Democratic policy that is causing people to be strung out on drugs or commit crimes. I don't think vouchers are  the answer to the  problems with urban public schools. In my opinion, the quality of a public school system has nothing to do with the political party of the school board members or the city or county commissioners.  Generally, public schools in affluent areas thrive and public schools in poor areas struggle. I don't see how you came blame the failure of Public Schools in poor urban areas solely on democratic policies.


Quote
Entitlements -  Many blacks receive it.  And the system is set up in away that if a person who's on government assistance gets a job, their benefits are cut. Keep in mind we're talking about low wage, minimum wage jobs.  So,  it's more profitable not to work.  Secondly, more children equal more benefits.  So now you have a woman, who lives in public housing with all these children, in most cases with multiple baby daddies who can't legally live with their children.  Not only does this policy keep blacks dependent on the government, it also attacks the structure of family.  Some may agree or disagree.

Not sure what your point is here? Democrats are more supportive of TANF and Food Stamps than Republicans. I think we can agree on that.  

Are you saying Democrats have failed Black people because there are not enough welfare benefits or are you saying the availability or welfare hurts Black people and should be eliminated?  

You say it's more profitable not to work.   I think you need to look at the TANF program. I think you may be inaccurate. I know each state is different but I believe the programs are set up where if you are a poor working person, you can still get food stamps.  I also think that you can't be on TANF for more than  5 years. And TANF is available for two parent homes that qualify.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/policy-basics-an-introduction-to-tanf

Georgia's TANF Eligibility Requirements:

In order to be determined eligible to receive TANF benefits, the following criteria must be met by the members of the assistance unit (family):.... In a two parent family in which both parents are able-bodied, deprivation is established if one parent has a “recent connection to the workforce.

http://dfcs.dhs.georgia.gov/tanf-eligibility-requirements



You suggest that the availability of welfare encourages Black women to have more babies. How come the availability of welfare benefits only makes Black women have a bunch a babies or make Black people lazy. No one ever says welfare makes White women have a bunch a babies, or makes White people lazy.

BTW, that whole thing about women having more babies for more benefits appears to be propoganda

This is old data:  Five Media Myths About Welfare

1. Poor women have more children because of the “financial incentives” of welfare benefits.

Repeated studies show no correlation between benefit levels and women’s choice to have children. (See, for example, Urban Institute Policy and Research Report, Fall/93.) States providing relatively higher benefits do not show higher birth rates among recipients.

In any case, welfare allowances are far too low to serve as any kind of “incentive”: A mother on welfare can expect about $90 in additional AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) benefits if she has another child.

http://fair.org/extra/five-media-myths-about-welfare/


more recent data: Your Assumptions About Welfare Recipients Are Wrong

And while the stereotype of the “welfare queen” is a woman who has more children to increase the benefits she gets from government programs, families who are enrolled look similar to those who aren’t. “Average family size was the same (3.7 persons), whether or not a family received assistance,” the report notes.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/12/18/3081791/welfare-recipient-spending/

How is it the fault of the Democratic party that proportionally Blacks are more likely to receive TANF and Food Stamps?


Quote
Entrepreneurship/Jobs:  Why is it that Arabs or Asians can come to this country, open up businesses in our communities when we don't have the same opportunities?  We can't go into a bank and just apply for loan.  I live in a black and Jewish middle class neighborhood and every corner store in our area is owned by a foreigner.   And it's the same in "the hood."  In Savannah,  up until this last election, Democrats controlled the city government.  Savannah is roughly 60-35-3(blacks, whites, other), give or take.  Well, we protested/revolted in November and now we have a republican mayor and the Democratic council took a huge hit.  Our leadership took for us granted and was shown the door.  

What Democratic policy gives Arabs and Asians more opportunities to open businesses or to obtain jobs than Blacks?  What makes you assume that the same opportunities aren't available to Blacks. Please tell us what policies the new Republican mayor of Savannah going to implement to improve the opportunities for entrepreneurships and jobs for Blacks.


Who says Black people can't go into a bank and get a loan? People with bad credit and no collateral have problems getting loans. What has that got to do with the Democratic party?

Black people can't get jobs or start businesses without the help of a political party? Is that what you are saying?  
:shrug:  

What we do know for a fact is that the Democratic party is more supportive of minority set asides for government work than Republicans.


Quote
Jobs:  Or should I say, unemployment.  Close to half of Black Americans are unemployed.  If that's not on the political party we support in astronomical numbers (90%), then all of the negative stereotypes attributed to blacks are true.  But it's not true.  The Democratic Party has made us out to be victims.

A false dichotomy or false dilemma occurs when an argument presents two options and ignores, either purposefully or out of ignorance, other alternatives.

But first, lets hash out some more data

Black unemployment falls to lowest since 2007
January 8, 2016:

Black unemployment fell to 8.3% in December, down sharply from the 9.4% in November

Despite the progress, there was a lot of room for improvement. Blacks still have higher unemployment than every other demographic. White unemployment is 4.5%, Hispanic unemployment is 6.3% and Asian unemployment is 4%.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/08/news/economy/black-unemployment-falls-hits-8-year-low/index.html

In 1954, the earliest year for which the Bureau of Labor Statistics has consistent unemployment data by race, the white rate averaged 5% and the black rate averaged 9.9%. Last month, the jobless rate among whites was 6.6%; among blacks, 12.6%. Over that time, the unemployment rate for blacks has averaged about 2.2 times that for whites.

The widest gaps, when black unemployment was as much as 2.77 times that of white unemployment, came in the late 1980s, as the manufacturing sectors that employed disproportionate shares of African-Americans shriveled. The smallest gaps, ironically, came in the summer of 2009 during the Great Recession; white unemployment rose so high, so fast, that the black jobless rate was “only” 1.67 times higher.

The black-white unemployment gap appears to have emerged in the 1940s, according to a 1999 analysis of Census data. Although labor economists, sociologists and other researchers have offered many explanations for the persistent 2-to-1 gap — from the differing industrial distribution of black and white workers to a “skills gap” between them — there’s no consensus on causes

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/08/21/through-good-times-and-bad-black-unemployment-is-consistently-double-that-of-whites/

I don't think it's logical to lay the entire blame for the racial disparity in the unemployment rate at the feet of the democratic party. I think there are other variables at play.

White men with recent criminal histories are far more likely to receive calls back than black men with no criminal record at all.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/05/african-americans-with-college-degrees-are-twice-as-likely-to-be-unemployed-as-other-graduates/430971/


Please tell us what democratic policy has caused the gap in unemployment for over 60 years. Please tell us what policy any political party could adopt that would address this racial gap in unemployment. I personally think there are lot variables, including institutionalized racism.  How can you blame the Democratic party for not completely ending racism in hiring policies.  Another variable is that most of the time, we aren't doing one the hiring.


 
Quote
Civil Rights:  On the surface it seems that Democrats are great with this issue.  But the motives of their support of Civil Rights are less than noble.  This issue is intertwined with entitlements/jobs and the right to vote.  Why? Because they knew that if they were the party to make civil rights a reality, we would be loyal.  So we vote for them in exchange for entitlements and the right to vote, but no jobs.   This, in itself, is what racism is all about.
Racism isn't about Joe The Plumber calling you or I the n-word.  Joe is bigoted and prejudice, but not a racist.  To be a racist, one has to have the power to use one's bigotry and prejudices to SUPPRESS a group of people from obtaining resources, based on race.  All racists are bigots and prejudice, though.  

Not sure what your point is here.  Seems you are again blaming the Democratic party for the Black people being under employed.

I'll say that Jobs are tied into the health of the economy. The economy could be better. I wish there were more blue collar jobs available here in the U.S. However, I don't see how you can solely blame the Democrats for the state of the economy.

Black people vote for Democrats in overwhelming numbers simply Democratic policies are more in line with the attitudes of Mainstream Black America about how Government should function.

You want to see what Black people ask in exchange for their votes, go to the Black Caucus website. If don't think Black people are asking for enough in exchange for their vote, maybe you should call your nearest Black Congressional representative.


Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on March 07, 2016, 10:00:57 AM
 :popcorn:
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BTW
Wildman, are we seeing the return of JJ from MEACFans re: his pet theory that voting for Dems IN AND OF ITSELF makes Africans/Blacks worse off?

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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on March 07, 2016, 10:24:11 AM
Wildman78,


Thats a tsunami of quotes and text. What exactly are you saying? :shrug:
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Wildman78 on March 07, 2016, 10:27:08 AM
Wildman78,


Thats a tsunami of quotes and text. What exactly are you saying? :shrug:

The readers digest version: It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to blame the Democratic party for the all the problems in mainstream Black America.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Ken on March 07, 2016, 01:13:22 PM
Especially when we are spending over $ 1 trillion dollars per year- that money is  going some where.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on March 07, 2016, 05:47:01 PM
Do you think BLM would have more credibility if they addressed the issue of black on black murders with the same vigor as they do when cops murder our children?  How can we expect other races to respect black lives when we have such a disregard for black lives? 

NO, DAW, I don't.

Ken explained why quite well.

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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on March 13, 2016, 05:09:09 PM
PICKING UP FROM THE PREVIOUS PAGE...

I ended a post with this...
Quote
BLM and others are putting life and limb at risk in the streets these days confronting SWAT teams with the mindset you mentioned.  If we aren't gonna join 'em in the streets, the least we can do is respect their efforts and courage AND lend moral and/or material support when and where we can.

A VERY sharp Howard Alum, Dr. Jelani Cobb (a contemporary and running buddy of Ras Baraka - Black Nia Force!) has written a LONG piece for the New Yorker about the origins and internal & external struggles of the Black Lives Matter movement.  I've just started it, but it is, OF COURSE, quite well researched and written.

Check it out!
http://goo.gl/1RyJ9z
(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/160314_r27785-320.jpg)

The article addresses several aspects that B4L and I and others have discussed.

Also an on-line friend (we have met in person once here in Panama) wrote this when he sent me the link to the article:

Quote
This is a fairly long New Yorker article (they are always ‘long’ in this magazine) on the history of ‘Black Lives Matter’. If you want to learn more about the origination of the name, its promoters, and the issues, events that triggered the ‘movement’ check it out. For those of you who have toiled in the bowels of ‘movement making’ it is a very good analysis of the internecine personality, inter-personal, status seeking/wanting, agenda setting ‘differences’ that can potentially derail ‘movement- making’ and the desire of potentially good people to ‘step up to the leadership’ plate.

More than anything... (reading it) carefully, this article is a reminder of how tough and complex ‘organizing’ across issues, people and communities’ can be. It can often lead to movement leaders ‘offing’ each other to the detriment of achieving the core objectives. In short ‘movement making is tough business. Without it we will remain loosely related victims of the ‘system’. Yet getting it ‘right’ and ‘sustainable’ over time by harnessing our collective strength is froth with pitfalls, chicanery, jealousy…and SELL-OUTs. This is perhaps the biggest burden we face…but like Sisyphus we must continue to roll this stone up the hill.

Hey Strike, if you think I am  :dedhorse:, I got something I will share with you and all.  LOL!!

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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: soflorattler on March 13, 2016, 10:31:05 PM
Man, y'all ran OS, Jr. off again... :no:
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Golden Kitten on March 14, 2016, 01:32:05 PM
I love it when y'all go straight intellectual... ;) ;D
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: EB on March 14, 2016, 02:55:40 PM
Thanks for the link B66
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: EB on March 15, 2016, 12:22:38 PM
How Hillary Clinton Responded To An Innocent Man Who Spent Years On Death Row (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/14/3759671/hillary-wrongful-conviction/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tptop3&utm_term=1&utm_content=53&elqTrackId=476fcd26d4754a9c9662c1add4b86e6e&elq=ab369b38765e478bae50e28e8e3e7d79&elqaid=29453&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=5220)

by Kira Lerner Mar 14, 2016 10:26 am

The Democratic candidates have debated eight times and have held countless town halls and forums, and most questions they are asked are not new.

But on Sunday night, a man who spent 39 years in prison, including time on death row, for a crime he did not commit asked Hillary Clinton if she supports the death penalty. Clinton has struggled with questions about capital punishment in the past, and this was the first time she was presented with the question by a victim of the country’s broken justice system.

.....
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison 4 Life on March 15, 2016, 01:30:07 PM
Seeing real class discussions within the Black community . Seems the battlelines are drawn. Under forty and educated for Bernie. Black establishment for HRC.
Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on March 15, 2016, 02:49:26 PM
How Hillary Clinton Responded To An Innocent Man Who Spent Years On Death Row (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/14/3759671/hillary-wrongful-conviction/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tptop3&utm_term=1&utm_content=53&elqTrackId=476fcd26d4754a9c9662c1add4b86e6e&elq=ab369b38765e478bae50e28e8e3e7d79&elqaid=29453&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=5220)

by Kira Lerner Mar 14, 2016 10:26 am

The Democratic candidates have debated eight times and have held countless town halls and forums, and most questions they are asked are not new.

But on Sunday night, a man who spent 39 years in prison, including time on death row, for a crime he did not commit asked Hillary Clinton if she supports the death penalty. Clinton has struggled with questions about capital punishment in the past, and this was the first time she was presented with the question by a victim of the country’s broken justice system.

.....

The exception (for terrorists and perhaps she included mass killers) she mentioned where the death penalty IS appropriate I agree with - as long as the evidence is beyond any doubt and prosecutors don't stack the deck.
She AMAZINGLY  said that the "states are incapable" of handling the death penalty.  That is likely to come back to haunt her in the General, but I agree with her because of cases like the brother (was it Ricky Jackson) found himself in.

Crazy idea:  States should hire The Innocence Project to research ALL death penalty cases where there seems to be even a small doubt of the person's guilt.

Hey, don't look at me like that,....I SAID it was crazy!
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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on March 16, 2016, 10:22:23 PM

The results in Cleveland and Chicago with the defeat of the prosecutors shows me - I don't know about others - that the Black Lives Matter movement MATTERS!!

I applaud them!!!!!!!!!!
 :clap:   :clap:   :clap:

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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on May 19, 2016, 10:41:43 PM

The results in Cleveland and Chicago with the defeat of the prosecutors shows me - I don't know about others - that the Black Lives Matter movement MATTERS!!

I applaud them!!!!!!!!!!
 :clap:   :clap:   :clap:

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We can add another feather in BLM’s bonnet.

Hogan signs Noah’s Law, police and criminal justice reform bills

Quote
Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan signed measures on Thursday that will change how drunk drivers are punished and how police are disciplined as well as another that dramatically shifts how the criminal justice system deals with nonviolent drug offenders.
[/size]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/hogan-plans-to-sign-noahs-law-and-police-and-criminal-justice-reform-bills/2016/05/18/e32b8644-1cf9-11e6-b6e0-c53b7ef63b45_story.html

Here’s a message from a leader of the effort to INCREASE POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY

Quote
Montgomery County Civil Rights CoalitionLike Page
7 hrs •
A very welcome step forward for police accountability -- thanks to advocates like you and the Maryland Coalition for Justice and Police Accountability: "Advocates who have pressed for improvements in police accountability said the successful passage of the reform bill this year was due to the death of Freddie Gray while in police custody and the unrest that followed in Baltimore. Larry Stafford, who leads the Maryland Coalition for Justice and Police Accountability and serves as the executive director of Progressive Maryland, said advocates have been pushing for changes in the way police officers are hired, trained and disciplined for years without much success.[...] “A lot of credit goes to the activists and organizers in Baltimore city who stood up after what happened with Freddie Gray and pushed for changes,” Stafford said. “That made this very possible.”"

And a message/reply shared by a Howard Alum who is an activist with the Prince Georges County Alliance (fighting for police accountability):

Quote
Thanks Thomas Nephew. I'd be remiss if I didn't give a BIG THANK YOU to Ms. Dorothy C Elliott who I consider a pioneer on this front in terms of police reform in MD and Redmond Barnes who first brought our coalition together in Prince Georges a few ions ago smile emoticon Lastly and MOST IMPORTANTLY, I pay HOMAGE to those NAMELESS street soldiers out of Baltimore that through their bodies, bricks, molotovs and pure determination forced the question last spring in the aftermath of Freddie Gray's brutal murder. For me, THE STREET SOLDIERS, THE MOTHERS/FATHERS OF THOSE STOLEN, the SURVIVORS those like Marion Gray-Hopkins, Dorothy C Elliott,Darlene Cain, Ms. Hazel Lampkin, Roberta McLeod, THEIR THE REAL HEROES/SHEROES. For my Howard University Family, LONG LIVE THE SPIRIT OF PRINCE CARMEN JONES. I AM THE PEOPLE. JH

THAT is what I call having an IMPACT!!

Why does it seem so important to criticize a group which focuses on a goal and gets results?!?

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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on July 10, 2016, 05:13:24 PM
More international impact of the US Black Lives Matter movement:

Why Black Lives Matter has gained momentum in a country where police shootings are rare

PROTEST IN LONDON:

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_960w/2010-2019/Wires/Images/2016-07-09/Getty/AFP_CZ8ZC.jpg&w=1484)

Quote
Amid anger and anxiety over two fatal police shootings in the United States, Black Lives Matter protests have erupted in Britain, where police patrol unarmed and have fatally shot very few people over the years.

In the days after the police shootings in Louisiana and Minnesota — and deadly sniper fire in Texas, where five officers were killed and others were wounded — hundreds have protested in solidarity.

In London, many have showed support — marching on Westminster, congregating in Windrush Square in Brixton and clogging Oxford Street — holding up signs saying "Stop Killing Us" and "How Many More," and chanting "hands up, don't shoot" and "black lives matter." Others have been tweeting with the hashtag #stopkillingthemandem, Jamaican slang for a group of men that has been adopted by Britain's youths.

The founder of the Black Lives Matter movement in London, Marayam Ali, told the Voice newspaper that she hopes the protests show that the U.K. supports "our American brothers and sisters."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/10/why-black-lives-matter-has-gained-momentum-in-a-country-where-police-shootings-are-rare/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_2_na

Why anyone would doubt that Black Lives Matter has changed the narrative is beyond me.

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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on July 13, 2016, 10:08:11 PM
Yeah, definitely NOT affecting the narrative:

(http://res.cloudinary.com/sagacity/image/upload/c_crop,h_762,w_1154,x_0,y_0/c_limit,w_1080/Screen_Shot_2015-11-30_at_7.44.41_AM_asgut4.png)

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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on July 28, 2016, 01:26:01 PM
NOPE, NO CHANGE IN THE NARRATIVE HERE!!

https://www.facebook.com/BallerAlertcom/videos/1333983656630628/

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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on July 30, 2016, 05:32:09 PM
Again, no impact on the narrative...   ::)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/magazine/the-superhero-photographs-of-the-black-lives-matter-movement.html?smid=nytcore-ipad-share&smprod=nytcore-ipad

Yep, nothing there.

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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: Bison66 on August 04, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Has anyone read anything by Michelle Alexander since #ErraticTrump took office?

Has she expressed her regret for helping to suppress the Black vote in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin?

Just curious...


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Title: Re: "Why Hillary Clinton does not deserve the Black vote" by Michelle Alexander
Post by: CU1994 on August 04, 2019, 03:17:13 PM
Has anyone read anything by Michelle Alexander since #ErraticTrump took office?

Has she expressed her regret for helping to suppress the Black vote in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin?

Just curious...


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Nope, and I really like her but her comments were myopic.