Raising the question: If, if and if, should the Marching 100 be disbanded?

[Valley Girl]

Valley Girl.............................................

My dear lady I can not express enough what a complete JOY it is for me to read your posts, not only about the FAMU band situation, which are superb, btw, but on pretty much every topic on which you choose to opine.

Your posts really read like those offered by an engineer or lawyer because they are so clean and analytical.  I don't offer these compliments because your posts might be construed as "favorable" to FAMU and I am an alumnus.  You make it CLEAR that if at the end of the day, hazing is conclusively determined to be "a" cause of this young man's death, and FAMU's administration is determined to have been negligent in dealing with hazing, then the university should suffer the consequences.

As much as it pains me, I, too, share that view.  I compliment you because your comments on THIS thread are illustrative of the way that you comment on most topics.  They are a pleasure to read.

My hat's off to you, dear lady.  

Wow......thank you very kindly sir.  I enjoy reading your posts as well. 

[DRUMMA1]

VG, I actually had the balls to change "tradition".  Did you change anything after you crossed Delta Sigma Theta or did you call the police?

But did you report it when it was happening?  How did you "change" tradition? Did "changing" tradition mean elimination of hazing or did it mean hazing that was less severe?  Did hazing stop because of what you did?  See, I wouldn't go around calling for your head if you didn't....

I was not hazed and I didn't participate in hazing....not only that, I told any of them going behind me that I would NOT lose my letters over some foolishness...and that I would report their @zz with the quickness.....needless to say they kept me out of the loop and by the time I found out about any after hour activities (which were few and far between when I was there) it had already been brought to light...I served as Chapter President and dealt with Delta business (community service, running meetings, serving as a delegate for state clusters, regional/national conferences, etc.), NOT Delta foolishness....I was well liked and respected by my big sisters and from the sorors who came after me.....and it wasn't because I demeaned or beat the hell out of anybody.

Did hazing happen AFTER I left?  Sure did, but I've got sense enough to know I can't control grown folks...I can do what I can do...and should I witness unlawful activities you darn right I'm gonna report it...I'm gonna take a video, show it to the proper authorities, and out of courtesy I will contact the chapter advisor....


But this ain't about me.....You're the one going around giving these folks hell talking about how corrupt their program is and what kids who weren't involved SHOULD have done and how they should be punished...it's easy to say what you should have done after the fact...

And 30 folks were suspended this semester alone....seems like somebody said SOMETHING....how do you know that the ones that said something weren't trying to "change" tradition?

You're like a one man kamikaze operation on these threads sir..... everybody in the 100 ain't corrupt, and there are MORE than enough corrupt folks in EVERYBODY'S band...

Perhaps there should be a moratorium on the 100 for a few years...if it's true, then they need to be punished...just be careful what you do with those rocks in your hands...that's all I'm saying...

Question:  Do you all also look down on people who didn't call the police when they were going through something in their past yet, later, speak out against what they went through and try to make a difference?

[Valley Girl]

Nope, and I said as much when I said this:

"See, I wouldn't go around calling for your head if you didn't...."

But apparently YOU do....


I'm not looking down on anybody.....I'm just pointing out that YOU appear to be looking down on people talking about what people should and shouldn't do when you went through a similar situation and pretty much reacted in a similar way.  

Drop your rocks, Pharisee....that was my only point....


But you know what? I just read your question again.....If somebody spoke out against something and they come from a place of "not making the same mistake I did"  then I would applaud it.  But if they spoke out against something that they did and they come from a place of "you ought to be ashamed of yourselves...you're the scum of the earth", then yeah I would point it out....

If you're speaking out against something that you went through in an accusatory manner as opposed to a manner of trying to help, then you get what you get...

It's all about the approach....one can either come off as an advocate or as a sanctimonious hypocrite.....

[DRUMMA1]

How can a then-teenager be a hypocrite?

Anyway, I see your point.  Just know that I have always been anti-hazing since Day 1, crossed to make a difference, and have spoken out against it ever since then.  I may seem a bit more avid than usual because someone has died and it could have been prevented since the writing had been on the wall for decades.  I'm not saying that everyone in the Marching 100 are thugs.  I'm saying that FAMU and its staff are at fault for enabling this "culture of hazing" for so long yet did nothing radical to stop it.

[Valley Girl]

Ok. I receive that.

But just for clarification, the teenager isn't the hypocrite...the hypocrite is the older person who criticizes other teenagers for doing what they used to do. Just like those old church ladies who criticize theese young fast gals, when they were giving it away out of both sides of their draws when they we're the same age.

And teenagers can be hypocrites too...just not in this particular scenario.

[DRUMMA1]

Agreed. 

Just for clarification, as a teenager, I never did what others have done.  We vowed the buck stopped with us.  After we crossed, we had all the power the next year and made sure that HS kids had a way better crabbing experience than we did.  Don't get me wrong, I do believe there should be some sort of "process" for anyone joining an organization (social, business, fraternal, etc.) but I do not believe or advocate hazing to be apart of that process.  It is my philosophy that if a freshman/crab knows their music, shows up to sectionals/practice on time, does not speak, gets their knees up, chants, etc., they are exemplifying the characteristics of being a good bandsman.  Unfortunately when we (and others) were crabbing, those attributes were not good enough.

[Pirate12]

If the 100 is banned, all of our marching bands should be banned. This type of thing has gone on in EVERY HBCU band and those of you trying to play like this doesn't/hasn't happened with your band are delusional. As for the bandheads, I guess it's easy to say NOW what shouldn't happen but if you were one of the ones who were hazed or who has hazed, then shame on you for allowing/doing it. To come here now pontificating when you allowed yourself to be hazed is like tinkering brass. Truth be told, nothing has changed - be it the Boom, the Jukebox, the 100, M4 or anyone else...

If you want to maintain that Dr. White knew what was going on, the same applies to Dr. Ammons. After all, he went to school there, was an administrator there, and came back as president. So if White is guilty, so is Ammons...

If it is proven that band hazing was involved in the Champion case then Amons will have to take swift action because FAMU is getting more national press than it has had in a long time. I was in school a long time ago and I can tell you hazing wasn't happening because outside of the SWAC (e.g. JSU, Southern) and FAMU marching band wasn't that big of a deal. In my day a freshman might be required to carry an upper classman's instrument or something. Several FAMU alumni have told me that everybody knew and know's hazing has been happening at FAMU for years. The only thing is it has gone to the extreme. If you ask Julian White he was probably hazed too as a student, and might have done some paddling as a student.

I think banning of any band should be a case by case scenario. But it appears that the "culture" of hazing was such an integral part of band life at FAMU that people just accepted that it was okay. The girl Bria Hunter who came out with her case several days ago mentioned "being accepted".

[soflorattler]

Nope, and I said as much when I said this:

"See, I wouldn't go around calling for your head if you didn't...."

But apparently YOU do....


I'm not looking down on anybody.....I'm just pointing out that YOU appear to be looking down on people talking about what people should and shouldn't do when you went through a similar situation and pretty much reacted in a similar way.  

Drop your rocks, Pharisee....that was my only point....


But you know what? I just read your question again.....If somebody spoke out against something and they come from a place of "not making the same mistake I did"  then I would applaud it.  But if they spoke out against something that they did and they come from a place of "you ought to be ashamed of yourselves...you're the scum of the earth", then yeah I would point it out....

If you're speaking out against something that you went through in an accusatory manner as opposed to a manner of trying to help, then you get what you get...

It's all about the approach....one can either come off as an advocate or as a sanctimonious hypocrite.....

If that knucklehead would take the time to read the documents from the link I posted, he'd see that they were cc'd to the FAMU police. So, that says to me, Dr. White DID notify the police in addition to the administration.

Seems his rock are bouncing back plugging him in his noggin... which explains a lot....

[DRUMMA1]

The FAMU police?  Is that REALLY your defense? 

Penn State, send help.

[soflorattler]

Just admit that you got served and move on.

Kudos, VG...

[DRUMMA1]

Just admit that you got served and move on.

The only one about to get "served" is Florida A&M University.  

Dr. White is about to get paid and so is Robert Champion's family.  

[Decks]

On the NBC Nightly News on Saturday they showed Mr. Champions funeral and also said he was beaten while on the bus as part of a band hazing ritual.

[punchy]

If the 100 is banned, all of our marching bands should be banned. This type of thing has gone on in EVERY HBCU band and those of you trying to play like this doesn't/hasn't happened with your band are delusional. As for the bandheads, I guess it's easy to say NOW what shouldn't happen but if you were one of the ones who were hazed or who has hazed, then shame on you for allowing/doing it. To come here now pontificating when you allowed yourself to be hazed is like tinkering brass. Truth be told, nothing has changed - be it the Boom, the Jukebox, the 100, M4 or anyone else...

If you want to maintain that Dr. White knew what was going on, the same applies to Dr. Ammons. After all, he went to school there, was an administrator there, and came back as president. So if White is guilty, so is Ammons...

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on banning all marching bands. I DID NOT go through a hazing process when I started at Virginia State University's band. I DID NOT go through a hazing process when I transferred to Norfolk State University's band. So banning all marching programs is not the answer.

[punchy]

The FAMU police?  Is that REALLY your defense? 

Penn State, send help.

So, the FAMU police are not connected to the Tallahassee Police Department?