m&g, u, y and Twin Please comment On Pat Buchanan's "Obama vs. The U.S. Army

[Twin Que ASU]

DOD, Army!!!
Still in the fight with a different uniform on!!!

[oldsport]

DOD, Army!!!
Still in the fight with a different uniform on!!!

Hang in there bruh. I respect you not wanting to comment on this thread.

[uchighlander]

I agree with Newt. However, I think Obama's ego is so fragile that he had to fire him no matter what.....no reconciling.....just get even. Obama could have been the bigger man by just chewing him out ...then sending him back to the front. What I find interesting is the replacement. Is this the same general that was mocked and made fun of by the Democrats? Why I believe it is. Strange. GO VIKINGS!!!

Your dislike for Obama has clouded your view of the bigger picture.  You said you were in the military, if I may ask officer or enlisted?  This behavior while on active duty can in my IMHO permeate throughout the ranks.

Additionally this was not his first time.  You say it was Obama's ego, but what do you think would have happen if McChystal found out one of his BG's or Colonels had done the same thing.  I tell you what would have happened,  he would have relieved him of command, therefore the punishment he received was appropriate.

Que.....I don't defend what McChrstal said....I stated as such in a previous post. I also stated there is a chain of command that needs to followed even if you don't like it. By the way.....I don't dislike Obama.....I don't like his politics. I was enlisted. GO VIKINGS!!!

[Twin Que ASU]

OS,
It's easy now as a DAC!!!  Different type fight!!!

[oldsport]

OS,
It's easy now as a DAC!!!  Different type fight!!!

Noted.

[DaBassman]

This comment was printed before the decision was made. I believe in some measure it coincides with the point I was making.


Steven G. Brant
      
What President Obama Should Do With Gen. McChrystal

"The lack of respect for civilian authority demonstrated by General McChrystal and his staff - on the record and over an extended period of time - is, in my opinion, all the justification President Obama needs to fire General McChrystal.

However, I believe this behavior is symptomatic of a larger underlying "disease": a breakdown in the relationship between the civilian side of American society and the military-industrial complex that has been catalyzed by the fact that America is basically on a permanent war-time footing.

"America has been "at war" for so long.. and our military (and their friends in the corporate sector) have been "keeping America safe" for so many years... that I think those in the upper ranks of the military-industrial complex now think they "know it all". I think the reason General McChrystal doesn't respect President Obama, Vice President Biden, and others is that a larger mindset I will call "The Pentagon Knows Best" has taken over (or, I should say, is trying to take over) America.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-g-brant/what-pres-obama-should-do_b_621713.html

[Optimusprime]

Unfortunately because of my current position, I decline to make personal comments reference this topic.

I am in uniform, and Buchannan is no elected official. 

Buchannan's comments are bulls**t!

McChrystal to comment to a reporter is one thing.  But, to allow his subordinates to make comments such as this and NOT receive some sort of reprimand or other action stating that this was not tolerated in the Army?

C'mon, General.

Ever since the idea of the imbedded media has been floated, the military has briefed its officers on what to say and when to say it. His guard should have been up well before this, as this was a reporter for Rolling Stone and not some ultra-conservative rag. 

No, Sir.  You allowed comments such as this and then added your own in a climate that was supposedly under the mistaken premise that "what happens on the mile stays on the mile."  Not so. 

Mr. Buchannan, insubordination to civilian authority by ANYONE in the military is not something that is a political agenda or done as a conspiracy.  IT IS NOT TOLERATED!  I do not tolerate soldiers who do not salute officers.  I do not tolerate soldiers who disrespect NCOs of any rank.  I do not tolerate officers abusing the backbone of the Army - period. Therefore, I set the command climate for my subordinates, and political discussions while in uniform OR in the context of some type of meeting where we can let our guard down is never prohibited.

OS has forgot all of the lessons that he and McChrystal has learned concerning OPSEC and the price of insubordination.  I don't feel joy over him losing his command position.  He does have a 30 year career that is set with accomplishments that alot of officers are yet to achieve.  I'm not in this to become a General Officer. So again, its not his past accomplishments that are shadowed by this recent event.  His INTEGRITY is the issue, Mr. Buchannan. 

[soflorattler]

Unfortunately because of my current position, I decline to make personal comments reference this topic.

I am in uniform, and Buchannan is no elected official. 

Buchannan's comments are bulls**t!

McChrystal to comment to a reporter is one thing.  But, to allow his subordinates to make comments such as this and NOT receive some sort of reprimand or other action stating that this was not tolerated in the Army?

C'mon, General.

Ever since the idea of the imbedded media has been floated, the military has briefed its officers on what to say and when to say it. His guard should have been up well before this, as this was a reporter for Rolling Stone and not some ultra-conservative rag. 

No, Sir.  You allowed comments such as this and then added your own in a climate that was supposedly under the mistaken premise that "what happens on the mile stays on the mile."  Not so. 

Mr. Buchannan, insubordination to civilian authority by ANYONE in the military is not something that is a political agenda or done as a conspiracy.  IT IS NOT TOLERATED!  I do not tolerate soldiers who do not salute officers.  I do not tolerate soldiers who disrespect NCOs of any rank.  I do not tolerate officers abusing the backbone of the Army - period. Therefore, I set the command climate for my subordinates, and political discussions while in uniform OR in the context of some type of meeting where we can let our guard down is never prohibited.

OS has forgot all of the lessons that he and McChrystal has learned concerning OPSEC and the price of insubordination.  I don't feel joy over him losing his command position.  He does have a 30 year career that is set with accomplishments that alot of officers are yet to achieve.  I'm not in this to become a General Officer. So again, its not his past accomplishments that are shadowed by this recent event.  His INTEGRITY is the issue, Mr. Buchannan. 

 

[DaBassman]

Unfortunately because of my current position, I decline to make personal comments reference this topic.

I am in uniform, and Buchannan is no elected official. 

Buchannan's comments are bulls**t!

McChrystal to comment to a reporter is one thing.  But, to allow his subordinates to make comments such as this and NOT receive some sort of reprimand or other action stating that this was not tolerated in the Army?

C'mon, General.

Ever since the idea of the imbedded media has been floated, the military has briefed its officers on what to say and when to say it. His guard should have been up well before this, as this was a reporter for Rolling Stone and not some ultra-conservative rag. 

No, Sir.  You allowed comments such as this and then added your own in a climate that was supposedly under the mistaken premise that "what happens on the mile stays on the mile."  Not so. 

Mr. Buchannan, insubordination to civilian authority by ANYONE in the military is not something that is a political agenda or done as a conspiracy.  IT IS NOT TOLERATED!  I do not tolerate soldiers who do not salute officers.  I do not tolerate soldiers who disrespect NCOs of any rank.  I do not tolerate officers abusing the backbone of the Army - period. Therefore, I set the command climate for my subordinates, and political discussions while in uniform OR in the context of some type of meeting where we can let our guard down is never prohibited.

OS has forgot all of the lessons that he and McChrystal has learned concerning OPSEC and the price of insubordination.  I don't feel joy over him losing his command position.  He does have a 30 year career that is set with accomplishments that alot of officers are yet to achieve.  I'm not in this to become a General Officer. So again, its not his past accomplishments that are shadowed by this recent event.  His INTEGRITY is the issue, Mr. Buchannan. 

Well said!!!!!

[DaBassman]

Unfortunately because of my current position, I decline to make personal comments reference this topic.

I am in uniform, and Buchannan is no elected official. 

Buchannan's comments are bulls**t!

McChrystal to comment to a reporter is one thing.  But, to allow his subordinates to make comments such as this and NOT receive some sort of reprimand or other action stating that this was not tolerated in the Army?

C'mon, General.

Ever since the idea of the imbedded media has been floated, the military has briefed its officers on what to say and when to say it. His guard should have been up well before this, as this was a reporter for Rolling Stone and not some ultra-conservative rag. 

No, Sir.  You allowed comments such as this and then added your own in a climate that was supposedly under the mistaken premise that "what happens on the mile stays on the mile."  Not so. 

Mr. Buchannan, insubordination to civilian authority by ANYONE in the military is not something that is a political agenda or done as a conspiracy.  IT IS NOT TOLERATED!  I do not tolerate soldiers who do not salute officers.  I do not tolerate soldiers who disrespect NCOs of any rank.  I do not tolerate officers abusing the backbone of the Army - period. Therefore, I set the command climate for my subordinates, and political discussions while in uniform OR in the context of some type of meeting where we can let our guard down is never prohibited.

OS has forgot all of the lessons that he and McChrystal has learned concerning OPSEC and the price of insubordination.  I don't feel joy over him losing his command position.  He does have a 30 year career that is set with accomplishments that alot of officers are yet to achieve.  I'm not in this to become a General Officer. So again, its not his past accomplishments that are shadowed by this recent event.  His INTEGRITY is the issue, Mr. Buchannan. 

Opti, what do you think would have happened if you made those comment about your superiors?

[Optimusprime]

Opti, what do you think would have happened if you made those comment about your superiors?

I would have been a civilian so quick, and unable to say "Welcome to Wal-mart..."

I came in at a time where there was a "zero-deficit" Army, and, speaking ill of the POTUS in a setting where one was heard by other officers was one of the quickest ways to a bottom mass OER.  The officer is commissioned by the President.  We are given the same oath of office that he is, and our authority to exercise our jobs or administer UCMJ are direct commissions from said office.

Basically, when you criticize the POTUS, you are undermining and questioning authority.  No one in the military are "yes, sir" men/women.  We can speak and often do speak negatively about operations, orders received and whatnot.  Once the order has been given and it is legal, however, it must be carried out to the best of our abilities.  One can question whether or not McChrystal and/or his subordinates represented the interests of the POTUS and people of the United States of America with passion and without prejudice.  From what I've read, they had their own agenda, and were stupid enough to loosen OPSEC to a reporter from the Lady Gaga issue of the Rolling Stone.

The Rolling Stone???  C'mon!!

We also had to watch what we told our spouses or the information that they could access on our personal computers.    Telling a babbling wife can get one in trouble also.

[DaBassman]

Opti, what do you think would have happened if you made those comment about your superiors?

I would have been a civilian so quick, and unable to say "Welcome to Wal-mart..."

I came in at a time where there was a "zero-deficit" Army, and, speaking ill of the POTUS in a setting where one was heard by other officers was one of the quickest ways to a bottom mass OER.  The officer is commissioned by the President.  We are given the same oath of office that he is, and our authority to exercise our jobs or administer UCMJ are direct commissions from said office.

Basically, when you criticize the POTUS, you are undermining and questioning authority.  No one in the military are "yes, sir" men/women.  We can speak and often do speak negatively about operations, orders received and whatnot.  Once the order has been given and it is legal, however, it must be carried out to the best of our abilities.  One can question whether or not McChrystal and/or his subordinates represented the interests of the POTUS and people of the United States of America with passion and without prejudice.  From what I've read, they had their own agenda, and were stupid enough to loosen OPSEC to a reporter from the Lady Gaga issue of the Rolling Stone.

The Rolling Stone???  C'mon!!

We also had to watch what we told our spouses or the information that they could access on our personal computers.    Telling a babbling wife can get one in trouble also.

That's what I thought.  Thanks for the feedback.