Party Affiliations & Branding?

[y04185]

I can understand that receiving such a perspective & info from a loved one as a youngster could affect one's perceptions of Black folks as an adult.  That's all. 

Bison, I was an adult when my father told me how Blacks hindered his career.  I found that out when I recorded an interview with him to preserve my family history.  You are 100% wrong on your assumption.

As told to me by a full blooded Native American and seconded by my grandmother whose mother was full blooded Indian, an 'Indian Giver' is someone who tells you you can have what is already yours and then takes it from you.

It is not what whites claim is giving you something, i.e. a gift, and then taking it back.

[Cholly]

Keep in mind this guy has a particularly LOW IQ folks....

[QueHBCUFan]

I can understand that receiving such a perspective & info from a loved one as a youngster could affect one's perceptions of Black folks as an adult.  That's all.  

Bison, I was an adult when my father told me how Blacks hindered his career.  I found that out when I recorded an interview with him to preserve my family history.  You are 100% wrong on your assumption.

As told to me by a full blooded Native American and seconded by my grandmother whose mother was full blooded Indian, an 'Indian Giver' is someone who tells you you can have what is already yours and then takes it from you.

It is not what whites claim is giving you something, i.e. a gift, and then taking it back.

  Y, stop making stuff up.  If that is what you were told, does it makes sense in your mind? The operative word here is "GIVER". I've always known for the definition to be a person who gives something away and later wants it back.

[uchighlander]

Keep in mind this guy has a particularly LOW IQ folks....

Ahhhh....another brilliant post by Cholly. GO VIKINGS!!!

[Bison66]

I can understand that receiving such a perspective & info from a loved one as a youngster could affect one's perceptions of Black folks as an adult.  That's all. 

Bison, I was an adult when my father told me how Blacks hindered his career.  I found that out when I recorded an interview with him to preserve my family history.  You are 100% wrong on your assumption.

No problem.
Still a person who has perceived his life experience in that way would likely IMO, in one way or another, reflect that perspective in daily life and convey it to those closest to him.

As told to me by a full blooded Native American and seconded by my grandmother whose mother was full blooded Indian, an 'Indian Giver' is someone who tells you you can have what is already yours and then takes it from you.

It is not what whites claim is giving you something, i.e. a gift, and then taking it back.

So you are asking us to believe:
that the ORIGIN of the phrase is Native American; 
that they would use a word, "Indian," which is not even indigenous to them; 
that they would use (without outside origin) a term that has been applied to them generally to describe a negative behavior
that there is actually a substantial distinction, in the context of treaties for example, between the definition you offered and what I described or even the distinction you tried to create re: gifts
that you didn't make it all up (like saying that Pres Carter's supporters told critics: "America: Love it or Leave It")

Rollin' on.
 

[Oldschoolram]

After 3 years of being a Republican, I FINALLY got something from them. Well it was from the NRA, but I count it!

[soflorattler]

 

[Cholly]

I don't understand WHY you folk keep entertaining that immoral, hypocritical11 IQ points dumb, welching,  LIAR.

[SPC Fighting Tiger]

Even though you people don't want to admit it you know good and well Blacks are more apt to tell their kids they can't do something because Blacks don't do that.  Yet you people have generalizations.  Since when do Jews not do manual labor?  Then you people want to criticize someone for telling the truth.  

When I taught school in Richmond it was common for Black parents, mostly mothers, tell their kids Blacks don't have college degrees.  This was after telling them ALL the teachers had a college degree.  And the principals had two degrees.

OK, let's take a step back, everyone.

In re: to what EACH of us has EVER heard a Black parent say to their child:
Have YOU ever heard a Black person say (let alone to their own child) that "Black people don't have college degrees?"

Let's be honest, here; not just "pile on."  
Let us avoid what Twin brought to the fore initially in this thread and not just agree on this because some of us happen to agree on other things.

For me:

I've heard people say some dumb stuff and cuss in front of or, worse yet, to their kids, but NOT this.  

I spent my early years in Harlem and I've been in or heard barber shop and pool hall debates in Syracuse, Tacoma, Panama City, FL, Maryland, DC, been in bull sessions, overheard comments in crowds, worked in Brownsville & Flatbush, Brooklyn with the working poor, the unemployed and interacted with gang members, assisted the former head of a "Community Control" school district in Oceanhill, Brklyn as he worked in the community, had extended conversations with Federal prison inmates (mostly from California) when I taught, interacted with community folks on the West Coast, gone door to door to talk with folks in rough neighborhoods in DC about Black issues, spoken to students at all grade levels and entertained their questions and even overheard convos between winos.  All of those folks were Black.  I also spent a few years in the Air Force (where I interacted with enlisted and officers, on and off the job) and taught a class for USAF Institute.

I have NEVER, EVER heard such obviously and flagrantly inaccurate foolishness, nor have I EVER heard anyone claim that someone said it - until now.

Anyone else?

 

Bed-Stuy over here (Maroon & Gray as well). Bison66, all joking aside, I have learned to take Y's commnets like this with a keg of salt for a simple reason. I know we like to keep it impersonal, but Y has admitted on several occasions that his ethnic background is inclusive of African-American, but not exclusively African-American (as much as Black folks in America today can be ethnically exclusive ). I say all this to mean that his views of Blacks in America will be inherently different, and like most non-African-Americans, tend to look down upon us.

"Black parents telling thier children that we don't go to college".  I mean, really? What is this? 1945?

[Bison66]

SALT MINE over here!!

 

[Meciber 202]

Just a thought - but I wonder who was started telling blacks, "you cannot sit here; drink there; have this job; go to this school; fly planes in combat, etc, etc".  Did blacks think of this all by themselves 

Guess if you hear it enough, you might believe it and pass it on to your children and your children's children.   

[Meciber 202]

from one of my previous post

from: y04185 on March 12, 2010, 07:49:24 AM
Conservatives give more than liberals.  We all should know that.

Y, your final comment above is not necessarily something "we all should know". Although, I would personally assume it to be true.

However, that general statement is not what caught my eye and prompted my request for proof. My internal radar peaked when I read "liberals make more but give less to charities than conservatives". The operative words being "make more but give less". That part seemed odd to me and not close to being "something we all should know".

As just so know, I did go read the GWill article and I cannot refute statement and thus accept (fyi MAG) the underlined research. it is not a big stretch for me to understand the religious-charitable giving connection and general connection with conservatives as being a key influence on the results.

Now having said that (if I wanted to debate), there would be few questions and clarification I would need, i.e. author/researcher political affiliation, who funded the research, givings (total dollars or percentage), etc. etc. In fact some things I saw would prompt me to dig deeper if I were so inclined. this is not as cut and dry as it appears on surface so I'll just accept. (teaser: why did i come across Dick Cheney).

Thanks for your patience.

Source: The wikipedia entry for Arthur brooks includes the following paragraph:

Brooks's first foray into the limelight was in 2006 with Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth about Compassionate Conservatism.[4] Originating in his research on philanthropy and drawing on survey data, he articulates a charity gap between the 75 percent of Americans who donate to charitable causes and the rest who do not. Brooks argues that there are three cultural values that best predict charitable giving: religious participation, political views, and family structure. Ninety-one percent of people who identify themselves as religious are likely to give to charity, writes Brooks, as opposed to 66 percent of people who do not. The religious giving sector is just as likely to give to secular programs as it is to religious causes. Those who think government should do more to redistribute income are less likely to give to charitable causes, and those who believe the government has less of a role to play in income redistribution tend to give more. Finally, people who couple and raise children are more likely to give philanthropically than those who do not. The more children there are in a family, the more likely that a family will donate to charity. One of Brooks's most controversial findings was that political conservatives give more, despite having incomes that are on average 6 percent lower than liberals.

Source: the wikipedia entry for American Enterprise Institute (AEI),
you'll find the following paragraphs:

AEI scholars are considered to be some of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy.[2] More than twenty AEI scholars and fellows served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government's many panels and commissions.[3] Among the prominent former government officials now affiliated with AEI are former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton, now an AEI senior fellow; former chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities Lynne Cheney, a longtime AEI senior fellow; former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, now an AEI senior fellow; former Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an AEI visiting fellow, and former deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz, now an AEI visiting scholar. Other prominent individuals affiliated with AEI include David Frum, Kevin Hassett, Frederick W. Kagan, Leon Kass, Irving Kristol, Charles Murray, Michael Novak, Norman J. Ornstein, Richard Perle, Radek Sikorski, Christina Hoff Sommers, and Peter J. Wallison.[4]

The American Enterprise Institute—which had been renamed in 1962—remained a marginal operation with little practical influence in the national politics until the 1970s. Baroody recruited a resident research faculty; Harvard economist Haberler was the first to join in 1972.[12] In 1977, former president Gerald Ford joined AEI as its "distinguished fellow." Ford brought several of his administration's officials with him, including Arthur Burns, Robert Bork, David Gergen, James C. Miller III, Laurence Silberman, and Antonin Scalia. Ford also founded the AEI World Forum, which he hosted until 2005. Other resident scholars hired around this time included Herbert Stein and Walter Berns. Baroody's son, William J. Baroody Jr., had been an official in the Ford White House and now also joined AEI, taking over the presidency from his father in 1978.[12]

The elder Baroody made a concerted effort to recruit neoconservatives (Democrats and urban liberals who had supported the New Deal and Great Society but had become disaffected by what they perceived as the failure of the welfare state, as articulated in the pages of journals like The Public Interest, and Cold War hawks who rejected George McGovern's peace agenda).

When DeMuth retired as president at the end of 2008, AEI's staff numbered 185, with 70 scholars and several dozen adjuncts,[12] and revenues of $31.3 million.[29]. Arthur C. Brooks succeeded him as president and soon faced harsh financial headwinds associated with the recession that began in 2008.[30] With a 2009 op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, Brooks positioned AEI to be much more aggressive in responding to the policies of the Barack Obama administration.

and from same entry, guess who is on the AEI board of trustees:

AEI's officers are Arthur C. Brooks, president; David Gerson, executive vice president; Jason Bertsch, vice president for marketing; Henry Olsen, vice president and director of the National Research Initiative; and Danielle Pletka, vice president for foreign and defense policy studies.[13]

Its board is chaired by Kevin Rollins. Current notable trustees include Brooks, Gordon Binder, former chairman and CEO of Amgen; former vice president Dick Cheney; Daniel D'Aniello, cofounder of The Carlyle Group; John V. Faraci, chairman and CEO of International Paper; Harlan Crow, chairman and CEO of Crow Holdings, the Trammell Crow family's investment company; Christopher Galvin, former CEO and chairman of Motorola; Raymond Gilmartin, retired chairman and CEO of Merck & Co.; Harvey Golub, retired chairman and CEO of the American Express Company; Roger Hertog, former president of Sanford C. Bernstein and Company and vice chairman emeritus of AllianceBernstein; Bruce Kovner, chairman of Caxton Associates (and a former chairman of AEI); Robert Pritzker; Edward B. Rust Jr., chairman and CEO of State Farm (and also a former AEI chairman); and James Q. Wilson.[13]

To finalize my previous post, I really do have concerns with the George Will article (used to support claim that conservatives give more than liberals) after looking closer and digging little deeper (see above quotes). His article is mostly based on research conclusions made by man named Arthur Brooks. I looked and found additional information on Brooks. He is current president of American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a conservative think-tank. And his current association with Dick Cheney is almost reason enough to discount any claims from Brooks research which "may have been funded by AEI" to begin with. So there is no way I would say this was independent research. 

PS: Sorry MAG, I tried but no, I cannot accept the G Will article as fact.

[Bison66]

Meciber,

Good digging!
Aside from the question of impartiality that you raise....

I'd like to see more in-depth data.  For example, is there a correlation between net worth - as contrasted with income and giving?