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Author Topic: Cheney's Revenge - The Obama Administration Is Vindicating Bush Policies  (Read 1272 times)
oldsport
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« on: February 09, 2010, 09:40:46 AM »

FEBRUARY 9, 2010

Cheney's Revenge

The Obama Administration is vindicating Bush antiterror policy.

Dick Cheney is not the most popular of politicians, but when he offered a harsh assessment of the Obama Administration's approach to terrorism last May, his criticism stung—so much that the President gave a speech the same day that was widely seen as a direct response. Though neither man would admit it, eight months later political and security realities are forcing Mr. Obama's antiterror policies ever-closer to the former Vice President's.

In fact, the President's changes in antiterror policy have never been as dramatic as he or his critics have advertised. His supporters on the left have repeatedly howled when the Justice Department quietly went to court and offered the same legal arguments the Bush Administration made, among them that the President has the power to detain enemy combatants indefinitely without charge. He has also ramped up drone strikes against al Qaeda and Taliban operatives in Pakistan.

However, the Administration has tried to break from its predecessors on several big antiterror issues, and it is on those that it is suffering the humiliation of having to walk back from its own righteous declarations. This is Dick Cheney's revenge.

***
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Associated Press Former Vice President Dick Cheney
.
Begin with Mr. Obama's executive order, two days after his inauguration, to shut the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay within one year. The President issued this command before undertaking a study to determine how or even whether his goal was feasible. In his May speech, Mr. Obama declared, "The record is clear: Rather than keep us safer, the prison at Guantanamo has weakened American national security."

Mr. Obama's deadline has come and gone, and Guantanamo remains open. In part this is the result of political opposition from Americans—including many Congressional Democrats—who understandably do not want terrorists in their backyards. Another problem is that European allies, while pressing for Guantanamo's closure, have been reluctant to accept more than a handful of detainees who are deemed suitable for release. The upshot is that Congress may never appropriate the money to close Gitmo, and Mr. Obama never mentioned the prison in his State of the Union address.

The Administration similarly has been backing away from its intention, announced in November, to try 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other enemy combatants in civilian court a few blocks from Ground Zero. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who at first endorsed the trials, has since reversed himself and urged the Administration to "do the right thing" and move the trials somewhere else, preferably to a military base.

The same day, New York's Senator Chuck Schumer asked officials to find another venue. Within hours, Mr. Obama ordered the Justice Department to do just that, and Mr. Schumer has since said any trial shouldn't be held anywhere in New York state. Meanwhile, bipartisan support is growing in Congress to block money from being spent on any civilian trial for KSM, anywhere.

The Administration seems to have thought no more deeply about the potential legal pitfalls of civilian trials than about the security and logistical problems. Mr. Obama himself responded to criticism by suggesting that what he had in mind was a series of show trials, in which the verdict and punishment were foreordained.

When NBC's Chuck Todd asked him in November to respond to those who took offense at granting KSM the full constitutional protections due a civilian defendant, the President replied: "I don't think it will be offensive at all when he's convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him." Mr. Obama later claimed he meant "if," not "when," but he undercut his own pretense of showcasing the fairness of American justice.

There is a real possibility, too, that convictions would be overturned on technicalities. KSM and other prospective defendants were subjected to interrogation techniques that, while justifiable in irregular war, would be forbidden in an ordinary criminal investigation. When Senator Herb Kohl, a Wisconsin Democrat, asked Attorney General Eric Holder what the Administration would do if a conviction were thrown out, Mr. Holder said: "Failure is not an option." A judge may not feel the same way, and the Administration is derelict if it is as unprepared for the contingency as Mr. Holder indicated.

In the event of an acquittal or an overturned conviction, it would be entirely legitimate under the laws of war to continue holding KSM and the others as enemy combatants. But this would defeat the moral rationale of a trial and require the Administration to explain why it was continuing to detain men whose guilt it had failed to establish in court.

A third policy under increasing criticism is the Administration's approach to interrogation. In August, Mr. Holder announced that he had appointed a special prosecutor to investigate—or rather re-investigate—allegations of abuse by CIA interrogators. At the same time, Mr. Obama declared that responsibility for interrogating detainees would shift from the CIA to a new, FBI-led High Value Detainee Interrogation Group, which would employ only tactics that are "noncoercive" or approved by the Army Field manual.

Then came the attempted Christmas bombing and the revelation that the new interrogation group is not fully operational and won't be for months. Not that it would have had a chance to question Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. On Mr. Holder's order, investigators immediately classified him as a criminal defendant. After interrogating him for just 50 minutes, they advised him of his right to remain silent, which he promptly exercised.

Fifty minutes was plenty of time, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs assured "Fox News Sunday" viewers last month: "Abdulmutallab was interrogated, and valuable intelligence was gotten as a result of that interrogation." Mr. Holder told Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell in a letter last week that Abdulmutallab "more recently . . . has provided additional intelligence to the FBI"—which is encouraging if true, but makes Mr. Gibbs's earlier assurance look empty.

Meanwhile, one of Scott Brown's most potent campaign themes in Massachusetts was his line that "Some people believe our Constitution exists to grant rights to terrorists who want to harm us. I disagree." Mr. Brown even endorsed waterboarding.

***
As long as George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were responsible for keeping Americans safe, Democrats could pander to the U.S. and European left's anti-antiterror views at little political cost. But now that they are responsible, American voters are able to see what the left really has in mind, and they are saying loud and clear that they prefer the Cheney method.

Mr. Holder has nonetheless begun a campaign to defend his decisions on Abdulmutallab and KSM, telling the New Yorker last week that "I don't apologize for what I've done" and that trying KSM in a civilian court will be "the defining event of my time as Attorney General."

Given that he still can't find a venue and that even Democrats are having second thoughts about the spectacle, Mr. Holder may well be right that the trial will define his tenure. Before this debate is over, he may have to explain why he's decided that the best place to try KSM really is a military tribunal—in Guantanamo.

Copyright 2009 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704022804575042112185849380.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion
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uchighlander
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2010, 09:55:55 AM »

"Chirp" "Chirp" "Chirp" GO VIKINGS!!!
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oldsport
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2010, 10:02:28 AM »

"Chirp" "Chirp" "Chirp" GO VIKINGS!!!

I know.  lol lol lol These IDIOTS have eaten so much of Obama's s#!% their heads are about to pop open.
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oldsport
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 01:52:45 PM »

"Chirp" "Chirp" "Chirp" GO VIKINGS!!!

It's getting loud in here. u, hear it?
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oldsport
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2010, 02:26:23 PM »

Crickets....Chirp...Chirp.... lmao lmao You sorry K----s.
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Bison66
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2010, 09:06:13 PM »

Hey, let me break up this little circle jerk and bring a bit more sober perspective to one of the issues.

(It is really silly for y'all, especially Olds..t - who is famous for running from threads [even ones that he starts] when he can't deal with the actual facts or cannot counter a germane argument - to assume that when no one responds it is because y'all have all the cards.  Starting several threads a day with the same constant carping on the same issues WILL get you ignored.  I just opened this thread today for the first time - out of curiosity.)

You know, UNLESS one or both of you guys can show me that in the past (prior to Obama taking office) you opposed the trial of terrorists in American courts, I will have to place you among the hypocrites, who - ALL OF A SUDDEN - have grave concerns about terrorists being tried in Fed Courts.  All during the time that the Bush admin and his Atty Gen read terrorists their rights and put them on trial in Fed Courts, these Repub hypocrites had NOT A MUMBLING WORD to say!!!  When confronted with their hypocrisy now, they usually say something like:  "We should learn from our mistakes."  But I have yet to see where even one of them (How 'bout you?) said - back then - that Bush was making a mistake.  Perhaps one of you two can show me a couple (I assume there was probably one hard-liner).

More than 100 folks were tried that way.  And the silence on this issue was deafening!!

In the most analogous case - Reed, the shoe bomber - he was Mirandized in about 5 minutes!!!!!!   Where was the howl from Boener, Mitchell, Brown or you guys then?

No, this new-found "concern" is NOTHING BUT CHEAP POLITICS playing with national security.

 Afro

P.S.  Of course, the article's author failed to mention
a) THIS continuity from Bush43 (after his failed effort to structure military tribunals to the satisfaction of a conservative Supreme Court) and
b) the obvious hypocrisy of the critics
because it didn't fit well with the argument he is trying to make.
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Bison66
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 11:37:50 PM »


It's been three days and you guys have no response?
**crickets**
**crickets**

 lmao lmao lmao

 Afro
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y04185
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2010, 08:16:32 AM »

Bison, you know good and well there are only a few threads available prior to the Great Onnidan Crash of 2008.  Now,  you need to prove that oldsport, uchighlander, or any Republican or conservative on this board has ever at anytime opposed the trials of terrorists in American courts.
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Bison66
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2010, 03:30:22 PM »

Bison, you know good and well there are only a few threads available prior to the Great Onnidan Crash of 2008.  Now,  you need to prove that oldsport, uchighlander, or any Republican or conservative on this board has ever at anytime opposed the trials of terrorists in American courts.

Good try, y04, at trying to change the subject......

However, IF you had read you would have seen that I didn't accuse you people of that hypocrisy:
Quote
... UNLESS one or both of you guys can show me that in the past (prior to Obama taking office) you opposed the trial of terrorists in American courts, I will have to place you among the hypocrites,.....

So, NO, I don't have to prove anything.  I accused those "among the hypocrites" who when interviewed now, talk about learning from "mistakes."  One of them was either McConnell or Boehner.  If you show me where olds..t or highlander spoke of those civilian trials as mistakes during the Bush years, I will stand down.

Strangely, oldsp..t and highlander didn't have a single word to say in their own defense and you weren't even in the convo, until now.  If they had opposed those civilian trials, they could say so - and you could have, also, if that was the case.

It is noted well that, rather than address the issue at hand (whether you people opposed civilian trials), you tried to deflect attention with a BS tactical move, which is not even germane.

Since the crash that you so conveniently offered as an excuse for so much, occurred prior to me joining O-dan, NO, I don't know "good and well."   (Why do you also conveniently assume that is the ONLY proof that could be offered?)

So, since highlander and Olds..t have joined the CRICKETS:
Apparently, they had the integrity to remain silent (perhaps, in their hypocrisy), at least, rather than lie about it.

But, now that you have inserted yourself into it:
Did YOU oppose the hundreds of civilian trials of terrorists during the Bush years?
Do YOU oppose them now?

 Afro
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 03:39:43 PM by Bison66 » Logged

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soflorattler
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2010, 03:42:23 PM »



So, NO, I don't have to prove anything.  

Except that a hit dog will yelp..
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Bison66
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 10:34:27 PM »

So, what is it, y04:
Quote
But, now that you have inserted yourself into it:
Did YOU oppose the hundreds of civilian trials of terrorists during the Bush years?
Do YOU oppose them now?

 Afro
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Brainwashed is:
Inability to offer rationale and explanations OR to engage in substantive discussion
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Blind acceptance of others' assertions EVEN AFTER the underlying "facts" are refuted
Frequent Fallacious arguments
Bison66
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 10:42:09 PM »

highlander and Olds..t,

Y'all not off the hook!!!

What happened to you guys??

You were on here just teasing away with chirps and crickets.  Then I responded and you guys disappeared like certain critters do when the lights come on!!

What's up with that??

Was my question THAT difficult?  (OK, OK, I forgot.  For Oldsp..t, ANY question is too difficult to answer.)

C'mon, did you then and do you now oppose civilian trials for terrorists? 

If you say "Yes" to both, you would surely understand my skepticism about the past and my request for some "proof of life,"  so to speak.

 Afro
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Brainwashed is:
Inability to offer rationale and explanations OR to engage in substantive discussion
Inability to offer counter arguments to points offered by those who disagree
Blind acceptance of others' assertions EVEN AFTER the underlying "facts" are refuted
Frequent Fallacious arguments
Bison66
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 02:17:22 AM »

OLDSPORT

HIGHLANDER

y04


Where are you guys??

It really was a very simple question that I asked.

 Afro
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Brainwashed is:
Inability to offer rationale and explanations OR to engage in substantive discussion
Inability to offer counter arguments to points offered by those who disagree
Blind acceptance of others' assertions EVEN AFTER the underlying "facts" are refuted
Frequent Fallacious arguments
soflorattler
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 05:26:17 AM »

Seems that they just...

 tiptoe







 Grin
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eagle pride
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 01:05:25 PM »

Maybe they will understand it better if you cut and paste. lol
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