Can minorities truly claim to be "Left" or "Right" to the extreme?

[oldsport]

If you go back and read what OS posted he said " the liberal political and practical philosophy is dependent on governmental programs and policies". I can't argue with that. The democratic party's bottom line is we are from the government....we are here to help you..................whether you need it or not. More government is better government. We are being forced to go green, the government wants to be your doctor, your teacher and your village.GO VIKINGS!!!

Excuse for completely dismissing your narrow and biased view as to liberal political philosophy as nothing more than paritsan rhetoric. How can y'all expect anyone take you serious when you resort to such trite and superficial language. Then maybe you don't mean be taken seriously.


I thought we were talking about enterpreneurship. Is Magic Johnson a liberal or a conservative. How about Russell Simmons. How about Oprah Winfrey.

 

Basically, what do these people produce? Let me tell you what I call the people you mentioned. They're people who made it in a capitalist economy and society who have no friggin idea what capitalism really is. There ideology philosophy does not match the source of their enterpreneural achievement. This is the greatness of America even people have little on no understanding of the country's economic system can make it. However, they appreciate all the trappings and goodies that the wealth from this system can give one who achieves its highest standard.

So are they liberal or conservative?

They are liberals who have benefited from a capitalist economic system.

[Wildman78]

So you would agree that entreuprenuership has little to do with defining whether someone is liberal or conservative?

Surely, you would have to admit that they are plenty of Black business owners that vote democrat. Doctors, Lawyers, insurance salesman, etc, etc,
Right?


I will say it again,  Blacks should not even buy into that liberal conservative, left, right terminology.

[oldsport]

So you would agree that entreuprenuership has little to do with defining whether someone is liberal or conservative?

Surely, you would have to admit that they are plenty of Black business owners that vote democrat. Doctors, Lawyers, insurance salesman, etc, etc,
Right?


I will say it again,  Blacks should not even buy into that liberal conservative, left, right terminology.

They are unfortunate conflicted individuals.

[Wildman78]

So you would agree that entreuprenuership has little to do with defining whether someone is liberal or conservative?  

Surely, you would have to admit that they are plenty of Black business owners that vote democrat. Doctors, Lawyers, insurance salesman, etc, etc,
Right?


I will say it again,  Blacks should not even buy into that liberal conservative, left, right terminology.

They are unfortunate conflicted individuals.

Conflicted or not, would you consider those doctors, lawyers, and insurance salesman etc, etc, to be liberal or conservative. 

Again the point I'm trying to make is that those terms are too imprecise to provide for meaningful diaglogue as to what is best for Black people.

I'm done. Y'all have fun.

[oldsport]

So you would agree that entreuprenuership has little to do with defining whether someone is liberal or conservative?  

Surely, you would have to admit that they are plenty of Black business owners that vote democrat. Doctors, Lawyers, insurance salesman, etc, etc,
Right?


I will say it again,  Blacks should not even buy into that liberal conservative, left, right terminology.

They are unfortunate conflicted individuals.

Conflicted or not, would you consider those doctors, lawyers, and insurance salesman etc, etc, to be liberal or conservative. 

Again the point I'm trying to make is that those terms are too imprecise to provide for meaningful diaglogue as to what is best for Black people.

I'm done. Y'all have fun.

Of course, I expect a moral relativist like you to say exactly what you said. With people like you there's no right and wrong. There's only what ever the situation dictates or depends on the situation.

[Wildman78]

So you would agree that entreuprenuership has little to do with defining whether someone is liberal or conservative?  

Surely, you would have to admit that they are plenty of Black business owners that vote democrat. Doctors, Lawyers, insurance salesman, etc, etc,
Right?


I will say it again,  Blacks should not even buy into that liberal conservative, left, right terminology.

They are unfortunate conflicted individuals.

Conflicted or not, would you consider those doctors, lawyers, and insurance salesman etc, etc, to be liberal or conservative. 

Again the point I'm trying to make is that those terms are too imprecise to provide for meaningful diaglogue as to what is best for Black people.

I'm done. Y'all have fun.

Of course, I expect a moral relativist like you to say exactly what you said. With people like you there's no right and wrong. There's only what ever the situation dictates or depends on the situation.

Well that certainly is a non-sequitur. I say that the terms liberal and conservative are too imprecise to provide for meaningful dialogue as to what is best for Blacks, and that leads you to conclude that I am a moral relativist.     

[y04185]

wildman, forget about what is best for blacks.  which philosophy, liberal or conservative, is best for you. 

[Wildman78]

wildman, forget about what is best for blacks.  which philosophy, liberal or conservative, is best for you.  

y04185, with all due respect, that was not the gist of the original inquiry. I think the intent of the original inquiry was to promote a dialogue as to whether minorities, Blacks in particular, should embrace the extremes of so called left wing or right wing politcal ideologies.

However, I will respond to your inquiry.  I  think the terms liberal and conservative are too broad and imprecise to describe me or most other individuals.   In other words, when you say liberal philosophy, I'm not sure what you are talking about.

For instance, I've been accused of being a far left liberal simply because I'm not sure there is a good reason for having the don't ask, don't tell policy in the military.  How does having that view benefit me or hinder me? It has nothing to do with nothing. It's just my view on one particular issue.

With respect to the question raised by the thread, how does the view held toward homosexuality by the majority of Black people benefit or hinder Black people. Again, it has nothing to do with nothing, in my humble opinion.

But views toward homosexuality are  often used as a barometer to determine whether someone is liberal or conservative.  

Then there is the implication that somehow liberals aren't as receptive to entrprenuership as conservatives.  Excuse me. Where the hell does that come from? Aren't there many Jews that are considered successful entreprenuers. Aren't Jews broadly painted as being liberals. I guess it depends on how you define liberal.


Again, I think the terms liberal or conservative are too broad and imprecise to have any real value in describing personal values or how to be sucessful. That applies to me or anybody else.

I hope I have been clear. I don't come here with the intention of trying to low rate anybody. However, I have never fully bought into that whole liberal/conservative distinction.  I think its largely contrived and the only real purpose its serves is to fuel heated political partisanship.

There you go.

[y04185]

wildman, do you believe that what is best for blacks is best for you.

[Wildman78]

wildman, do you believe that what is best for blacks is best for you.

Its hard to believe that you would ask me that question after what I just wrote.  

Yeah, I generally think what is best for Blacks is best for me,  and I also generally think what's best for all Americans is best for me too.

I'm sorry.  I really dont' understand the point you are trying to make with that question, and it really seems to be off the point of the question posed by the lead post in this thread.

[Twin Que ASU]

wildman, forget about what is best for blacks.  which philosophy, liberal or conservative, is best for you.  

y04185, with all due respect, that was not the gist of the original inquiry. I think the intent of the original inquiry was to promote a dialogue as to whether minorities, Blacks in particular, should embrace the extremes of so called left wing or right wing politcal ideologies.

The original intent was to promote spirited dialogue to see if anyone on this forum can truly identify with an extreme left or right point of view.  I was my intent to see if posters might think that somewhere in the center is where most fall and extreme views have extreme consequences.  The examples I used are generally related to left & right, not the intent of the discussion.  The definiton(s) of liberal and conservative are 'normally'  known & accepted across the board by 'all.'

[Wildman78]

The definiton of liberal and conservative are 'normally' accepted across the board by 'all.'

I disagree.  No consensus definition of liberal and conservative have been provided in this discussion.

When you were asked to provide a defintion you gave "your opinion of a definition"

Why don't you ask Golden Kitten or Valley Girl if they agree with your definition of liberal:

This is it, isn't it:

liberal = those who think everyone is entitled to anything - Example, dope smoking is OK, homosexuality is something all you respect & permit, free ride takers on tax money, support the sorry, open borders, your tax money is my income, chicken in every pot thinkers!!!!

Please Golden Kitten and Valley Girl, CIAAfan, and you other so called liberal posters tell me if you accept this definition of what a liberal is.

If they agree with you Twin Que ASU,  I will back the hell off and concede error.

[Twin Que ASU]

Sir,
You asked for MY definiton, not Webster's
If you want Webster's, I am sure you have access.

[y04185]

twin, it seems too many of us need to have the definition of 'is.'  it is like too many of us have to say what has been taught to be what blacks are suppose to say.  they rarely question those thoughts.  i will say this about wildman.  30 years ago very few blacks would have stated what he has stated about homosexuals.  even on an anonymous online board if they had existed then.  times they are a changin.

it does prove that blacks are a very diverse bunch.

wildman, 'a chicken in every pot' is a republican [normally conservative] slogan.  the rest of that slogan is 'and a car in the backyard to boot.'

[Wildman78]

Sir,
You asked for MY definiton, not Webster's
If you want Webster's, I am sure you have access.

Lets be clear.

In my first post I said " .......Seems to me you can't really begin a discussion of this nature without everybody agreeing as to the definitions of the terms and phrases.

I said practically the same thing when you equated by views about homosexuality as being strong left wing.

" 'Again, I think we must agree on the meaning of the terms "left," "liberal", "right," and "conservative.' "

Then you said:

'If I must define well known and accepted terms, it's not (IMHO) worth further discussion because the quible becomes accepting the terms singularly"

Then I said.

If the terms are so well known and accepted, then they should be easy to define.  Right?    It should take no effort whatsoever. right.

So, please indulge me and tell me how you define the terms "left, liberal, right, and conservative. See, I think the terms mean different things to different people.



Then you gave me your definitions, You could have given me generic or conventional definitions.  But you chose to give me your definition.

But you are right I do have access to Webster as do you:

con·ser·va·tism
Pronunciation:\kən-ˈsər-və-ˌti-zəm\
Function:noun
Date:1832
1capitalized a: the principles and policies of a Conservative party b: the Conservative party

2 a: disposition in politics to preserve what is established b: a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change ; specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage)

3: the tendency to prefer an existing or traditional situation to change


Liberalism :
 
 1: the quality or state of being liberal
2 aoften capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity

b: a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard

 c: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties ; specifically : such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (as those involving race, gender, or class) dcapitalized : the principles and policies

Again, I stand by my statement that the terms are too broad and imprecise  to be of much use with respect to how someone should govern their lives.

But y'all keep on getting caught up in the bullshyt, that is just my opinion.